Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-05 Thread Schubotz, Moritz 
Hi Markus,

regardless of the beta label of mathoid: If something is broken, report it on 
Phabricator and it will be fixed quite soon.
Maybe it would be wise, if we released mathoid 1.0, to get rid of that label.
I think semantic math is possible, but not today.
I invite you to discuss the efforts in building a global digital mathematical 
library, but maybe this is not the best thread for that.
>From my understanding we Wikidata is in phase 2 according to
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikidata
thus data from Wikipedia can be exported to wikidata and displayed on Wikipedia 
thereafter.
What we are doing here is supporting math according to the definition of  
tag in wikitext.
Nothing more and nothing less.
I'm convinced that starting with this approach is the best thing we can do.
Writing a script that would convert that to MathML in the future is well 
studied.
Going back from MathML to TeX is currently not possible, to the best of my 
knowledge.
Best
Moritz



Moritz Schubotz
TU Berlin, Fakultät IV
DIMA - Sekr. EN7
Raum E-N 741
Einsteinufer 17
D-10587 Berlin
Germany

Tel.: +49 30 314 22784
Mobil:+49 1578 047 1397
E-Mail: schub...@tu-berlin.de
Skype: Schubi87
ICQ: 200302764
Msn: mor...@schubotz.de


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Markus Krötzsch [mailto:mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org] 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. Februar 2016 18:47
An: Schubotz, Moritz; Discussion list for the Wikidata project.
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: AW: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

Hi Moritz,

On 04.02.2016 12:08, Schubotz, Moritz wrote:
> Hi Markus,
>
> with regard to the beta status: I think if word was open source it would be 
> called word-beta.

:-D
You sound like me when I was a student. However, let's be serious: there are 
quality criteria in software engineering, and "open source" is just a license 
model and has nothing to do with these. The site you linked says "beta", but 
the API input underneath says "unstable", which sounds as if it might change in 
incompatible ways in the future. This sounds like more work for me as a user 
who would need to rely on this.

> Mathoid can be installed locally, via npm install mathoid.

That's not what I meant. As I understand, you could have a Javascript 
application using MathJax that, once loaded, will be able to render all 
MathJax-compatile math even when you are offline, without requiring you to 
install anything on your machine. You could also provide these resources 
locally on your intranet without running a dedicated service.

Also, to be clear: for me, this is not a question of "Mathoid vs MathJax". What 
I was suggesting was to use a subset of LaTeX that works in both, so that 
implementers have a choice of what they like most. I am sure they both have 
their pros and cons.

> If your application supports HTML5 you can just include the MathML returned 
> by your local mathoid installation (or take the cached version from the 
> service wmf provides for the public benefits.
> You could also install your own restbase instance for caching.
> However, this requires some technical skills. Gabriel Wicke and me are 
> working on Docker Containers, to simplify the installation procedure.
> When you use MathML there are (in theory) no problems with the styling and 
> the integration to your custom application.
> However, for devices that do not fully support HTML5 the fallback images are 
> not optimal, since their shape is fixed.
> They look similar to the way how LaTeX would render the input and do not 
> adjust to the layout.
> While LaTeX is appreciated by many scientists, web browsers are no TeX 
> renders and display the declarative style information.
> Note, that this is a completely different approach from imperative TeX 
> typesetting instructions.
> MathJax now tries to support imperative typesetting instructions within a 
> declarative document.
> While this is a nice bridge technology, we should finally aim for full 
> declaratively.

I could not agree more, but for this very reason it is hard to see how TeX 
could be a good basis for this in general. Any tool that translates from TeX to 
MathML must make some sense of the spacial relationship of symbols as typeset 
by a LaTeX program, which can only ever be an approximate, heuristic process. 
This is all good, but as you put it, it is necessarily bridge technology.

>
> Putting that in a broader picture, I completely share your initial skepticism 
> in starting with this texvc dialect.
> The optimal way would certainly be to support content MathML to support all 
> the formula semantics https://www.w3.org/TR/MathML3/chapter4.html .
> However, while this is a nice idea I think it's not very likely at the moment 
> that people would enter content MathML expressions.

(yes, obviously, this is not a workable surface syntax)

> Therefore, I think it's reasonable to start

Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-05 Thread Markus Kroetzsch 

On 04.02.2016 18:59, Daniel Kinzler wrote:

Am 04.02.2016 um 08:03 schrieb Markus Krötzsch:

Data model updates are costly. Don't make them on a week's notice, without prior
discussion, and without having any documentation ready to give to data users. It
would also be good to announce breaking technical changes more prominently on
wikidata-tech as well.


These have been discussed for months, if not years. Especially identifiers.


Citation needed ;-) Note that my emails were about math, not about the 
identifiers. Also, discussing about something is not enough. In the end, 
you need to give us the technical details so we can fix our tools. I 
knew that you planned to introduce identifier types, but I still don't 
know the RDF IRI for this new type.




I do not consider adding new data types a breaking change. Converting existing
properties to a different data type is a breaking change to the data-set, not to
the model or the software.


No, sorry, this is just wrong. The datatypes are part of the model, not 
of the data. Changing the format of JSON to include new, hitherto 
unknown types might break a tool (and not break others). It will depend 
on the function of the tool (and its implementation technique) but some 
will break.


For example, a tool that converts Wikidata to RDF will have a problem if 
it encounters something that it cannot translate. This is hard to 
recover from, since you cannot even declare the exported property as a 
property at all unless you probe your data to find hints in the form of 
values that use this data (I don't think any existing export tool would 
work like this). As a result, you fail to export a significant part of 
the property definitions, which makes the dumps invalid for OWL, or you 
have to omit big parts of the data. This is clearly breaking essential 
functionality.


An earlier email in this thread reported that the recent changes also 
break pywikibot, but maybe this was another part of the changes and the 
one-week time-to-update I complain about does not apply there (maybe 
this break was clear earlier so the team there had more time to adjust?).


You really need to give people more time to accommodate data model 
changes -- and you should start counting the time when you have finished 
and publicised the documentation of a change. I can't believe that my 
question on the type IDs in JSON and RDF is still unanswered. I would 
really like to release an update of our software and online tools next 
week, so it would be good to know by then. Does nobody know this yet, or 
do you not have enough resources to say it, or what is the problem? We 
are no longer in those early years where everything was new and there 
were no applications to break.


Markus

--
Markus Kroetzsch
Faculty of Computer Science
Technische Universität Dresden
+49 351 463 38486
http://korrekt.org/

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Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-04 Thread Daniel Kinzler 
Am 04.02.2016 um 08:03 schrieb Markus Krötzsch:
> Data model updates are costly. Don't make them on a week's notice, without 
> prior
> discussion, and without having any documentation ready to give to data users. 
> It
> would also be good to announce breaking technical changes more prominently on
> wikidata-tech as well.

These have been discussed for months, if not years. Especially identifiers.

I do not consider adding new data types a breaking change. Converting existing
properties to a different data type is a breaking change to the data-set, not to
the model or the software.

-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Senior Software Developer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

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Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-04 Thread Markus Krötzsch 

On 03.02.2016 12:44, John Erling Blad wrote:

It is a bit strange to defines a data type in terms of a library of
functions in another language.
Or is just me that thinks this is a bit odd?

What about MathML?


The arxiv report that Moritz posted (after you had already asked your 
question) says that he has improved the tooling to translate into 
MathML, so this is in the picture to some extent. I would not consider 
it as a workable input format (try writing in MathML! ;-). On the other 
hand, there is AsciiMathML, but I don't know how useful that is (and 
people know LaTeX much better). One could consider having MathML as the 
internal format, and AsciiMathML and LaTeX as input options for writing 
it, but this seems like a big project to get to work. I guess we can 
exclude the option of using a visual input interface for math (Microsoft 
tried that in Word once, they have a lot of developers, and yet ...).


Markus



On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 12:06 PM, Markus Krötzsch
>
wrote:

For a consumer, the main practical questions would be:

(1) What subset of LaTeX exactly do you need to support to display
the math expressions in Wikidata?
(2) As a follow up: does MathJAX work to display this? If not, what
does?

Cheers,

Markus

On 02.02.2016 10:01, Moritz Schubotz wrote:

The string is interpreted by the math extension in the same way
as the
Math extension interprets the text between the  tags.
There is an API to extract identifiers and the packages required to
render the input with regular latex from here:
http://api.formulasearchengine.com/v1/?doc
or also

https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/?doc#!/Math/post_media_math_check_type
(The wikipedia endpoint has been opened to the public just
moments ago)
In the future, we are planning to provide additional semantics
from there.
If you have additional questions, please contact me directly,
since I'm
not a member on the list.
Moritz

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Lydia Pintscher

>> wrote:

 On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:44 PM Markus Krötzsch
 
 >> wrote:

 On 01.02.2016 17:14, Lydia Pintscher wrote:
  > Hey folks :)
  >
  > I just sat down with Katie to plan the next
important feature
  > deployments that are coming up this month. Here is
the plan:
  > * new datatype for mathematical expressions: We'll
get it live on
  > test.wikidata.org 

  tomorrow and then bring it
  > to wikidata.org 
 
 on the 9th

 Documentation? What will downstream users like us need
to do to
 support
 this? How is this mapped to JSON? How is this mapped to
RDF?


 It is a string representing markup for the Math extension.
You can
 already test it here:
http://wikidata.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Q117940.
 See also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Displaying_a_formula.
 Maybe Moritz wants to say  bit more as his students created the
 datatype.

 Cheers
 Lydia
 --
 Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
 Product Manager for Wikidata

 Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
 Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
 10963 Berlin
www.wikimedia.de  

 Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien
Wissens e. V.

 Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
 Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als
gemeinnützig
 anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin,
 Steuernummer 27/029/42207 .




--
Moritz Schubotz
TU Berlin, Fakultät IV
DIMA - Sekr. EN7
Raum EN742
Einsteinufer 17
D-10587 Berlin
Germany

Tel.: +49 30 314 22784 
Mobil.: +49 1578 047 1397 
Fax: +49 30 314 21601

Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-04 Thread Markus Krötzsch 
ation.org/ . In 
addition, I'm an offsite collaborator of the National Institute of Standards 
and Technology in the USA and I really appreciate standards.

Moritz Schubotz
TU Berlin, Fakultät IV
DIMA - Sekr. EN7
Raum E-N 741
Einsteinufer 17
D-10587 Berlin
Germany

Tel.: +49 30 314 22784
Mobil:+49 1578 047 1397
E-Mail: schub...@tu-berlin.de
Skype: Schubi87
ICQ: 200302764
Msn: mor...@schubotz.de


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Markus Krötzsch [mailto:mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. Februar 2016 08:20
An: Schubotz, Moritz; Discussion list for the Wikidata project.
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

Hi Moritz,

On 03.02.2016 15:25, Schubotz, Moritz wrote:

Hi Markus,

I think we agree on the goals cf. http://arxiv.org/abs/1404.6179 By
the way the texvc dialect is now 13 years old at least.
For now it's required to be 100% compatible to the texvc dialect in order to 
use wikidata in Mediawiki instances.
However, for the future there are also plans to support more markup.
But all new options are blocked by
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T74240

Mathoid, the service that converts the texvc dialect to MathML, SVG + PNG can 
also be used without a MediaWiki instance.
I posted links to the Restbase Web UI before.

api.formulasearchengine.com (with experimental features)
de.wikipedia.org/api (stable)


This is the API you said "has been opened to the public just moments ago" and which 
describes itself as "currently in beta testing"? That seems a bit shaky to say the least. 
In your email, you said that this API was for extracting LaTeX package names and identifiers, not 
for rendering content, so I have not looked at it for this purpose. How does this compare to 
MathJax in terms of usage? Are the output types similar?
It seems your solution adds the dependency on an external server, so this 
cannot be used in offline mode, I suppose? How does it support styling of 
content for your own application, e.g., how do you select the fonts to be used?

I think we agree that real documentation should be a bit more than an 
unexplained link in an email. Anyway, it is not your role to provide 
documentation on new Wikidata features or to make sure that stakeholders are 
taken along when new features are deployed, so don't worry too much about this. 
I am sure your students did a good job implementing this, and from there on it 
is really in other people's hands.

Cheers,

Markus





Am 03.02.2016 um 14:31 schrieb Markus Krötzsch:

Hi Moritz,

I must say that this is not very reassuring. So basically what we
have in this datatype now is a "LaTeX-like" markup language that is
only supported by one implementation that was created for MediaWiki,
and partially by a LaTeX package that you created.


Markus, this TeX dialoect is not a new invention by Moritz. It's what
the Math extension for MediaWiki has been using for over a decade now,
and it's used on hundreds of thousands of pages on Wikipedia. All that
we are doing now is making this same exact syntax available for
property values on wikibase, using the same exact code for rendering it.

I think having consistent handling for math formulas between wikitext
and wikibase is the right thing to do. Of course it would have been
nice for MediaWiki to not invent it's own TeX dialect for this, but
it's 10 years to late for that complaint now.

Moritz, I seem to recall that the new Math extension uses a standalone
service for rendering TeX to PNG, SVG, or MathML. Can that service
easily be used outside the context of MediaWiki?







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Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-03 Thread John Erling Blad 
It is a bit strange to defines a data type in terms of a library of
functions in another language.
Or is just me that thinks this is a bit odd?

What about MathML?

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 12:06 PM, Markus Krötzsch <
mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org> wrote:

> For a consumer, the main practical questions would be:
>
> (1) What subset of LaTeX exactly do you need to support to display the
> math expressions in Wikidata?
> (2) As a follow up: does MathJAX work to display this? If not, what does?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Markus
>
> On 02.02.2016 10:01, Moritz Schubotz wrote:
>
>> The string is interpreted by the math extension in the same way as the
>> Math extension interprets the text between the  tags.
>> There is an API to extract identifiers and the packages required to
>> render the input with regular latex from here:
>> http://api.formulasearchengine.com/v1/?doc
>> or also
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/?doc#!/Math/post_media_math_check_type
>> (The wikipedia endpoint has been opened to the public just moments ago)
>> In the future, we are planning to provide additional semantics from there.
>> If you have additional questions, please contact me directly, since I'm
>> not a member on the list.
>> Moritz
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Lydia Pintscher
>> >
>> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:44 PM Markus Krötzsch
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> On 01.02.2016 17:14, Lydia Pintscher wrote:
>>  > Hey folks :)
>>  >
>>  > I just sat down with Katie to plan the next important feature
>>  > deployments that are coming up this month. Here is the plan:
>>  > * new datatype for mathematical expressions: We'll get it live
>> on
>>  > test.wikidata.org 
>>  tomorrow and then bring it
>>  > to wikidata.org  
>> on the 9th
>>
>> Documentation? What will downstream users like us need to do to
>> support
>> this? How is this mapped to JSON? How is this mapped to RDF?
>>
>>
>> It is a string representing markup for the Math extension. You can
>> already test it here: http://wikidata.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Q117940.
>> See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Displaying_a_formula.
>> Maybe Moritz wants to say  bit more as his students created the
>> datatype.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Lydia
>> --
>> Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
>> Product Manager for Wikidata
>>
>> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
>> Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
>> 10963 Berlin
>> www.wikimedia.de 
>>
>> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.
>> V.
>>
>> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
>> Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig
>> anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin,
>> Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Moritz Schubotz
>> TU Berlin, Fakultät IV
>> DIMA - Sekr. EN7
>> Raum EN742
>> Einsteinufer 17
>> D-10587 Berlin
>> Germany
>>
>> Tel.: +49 30 314 22784
>> Mobil.: +49 1578 047 1397
>> Fax:  +49 30 314 21601
>> E-Mail: schub...@tu-berlin.de 
>> Skype: Schubi87
>> ICQ: 200302764
>> Msn: mor...@schubotz.de
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-03 Thread Markus Krötzsch 

Hi Moritz,

I must say that this is not very reassuring. So basically what we have 
in this datatype now is a "LaTeX-like" markup language that is only 
supported by one implementation that was created for MediaWiki, and 
partially by a LaTeX package that you created.


Why did you not just use LaTeX? Do we really need additional commands 
here? Just think about the interoperability of the data you are 
creating. Just because some command alias is used on Wikipedia does not 
mean we need it -- we can simply translate it to standard LaTeX on import.


The question about MathJax I asked because consumers of the data clearly 
need some way to display this markup. MathJax is a widely used library 
that can support this. Or maybe MathJax already supports your custom 
extensions somehow (I am not that familiar with it)? If not, then what 
other ways are there of embedding your custom math markup language into 
my application?


Cheers,

Markus


On 03.02.2016 13:52, Schubotz, Moritz wrote:

Hi Markus,

it's not exactly a subset of LaTeX. Some commands were added some were removed. 
A large portion of those parts are documented here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Displaying_a_formula , and a complete list 
is available from  http://1drv.ms/1RtoZoW
For LaTeX users I created a LaTeX macro package so that they can copy and paste 
texvc style LaTeX code to regular LaTeX documents
https://www.ctan.org/pkg/texvc
However, there are two issues with this package: \and  and \or are not 
supported by my LaTeX package since redefining those commands caused internal 
problems. However, most of the time people use the standard LaTeX command \lor 
and \land anyhow. Altogether, enwiki contains 969 \lor and 1581 \land.
Statistics on the usage frequencies are available from
https://gitlab.tubit.tu-berlin.de/data/wikiFormulae/tree/master

w.r.t 2) I have no idea how that relates to MathJax? Can you explain the 
background of your question?

Best
Moritz


Moritz Schubotz
TU Berlin, Fakultät IV
DIMA - Sekr. EN7
Raum E-N 741
Einsteinufer 17
D-10587 Berlin
Germany

Tel.: +49 30 314 22784
Mobil:+49 1578 047 1397
E-Mail: schub...@tu-berlin.de
Skype: Schubi87
ICQ: 200302764
Msn: mor...@schubotz.de


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Markus Krötzsch [mailto:mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Februar 2016 12:06
An: Discussion list for the Wikidata project.; Lydia Pintscher
Cc: Schubotz, Moritz
Betreff: Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

For a consumer, the main practical questions would be:

(1) What subset of LaTeX exactly do you need to support to display the math 
expressions in Wikidata?
(2) As a follow up: does MathJAX work to display this? If not, what does?

Cheers,

Markus

On 02.02.2016 10:01, Moritz Schubotz wrote:

The string is interpreted by the math extension in the same way as the
Math extension interprets the text between the  tags.
There is an API to extract identifiers and the packages required to
render the input with regular latex from here:
http://api.formulasearchengine.com/v1/?doc
or also
https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/?doc#!/Math/post_media_math_check
_type (The wikipedia endpoint has been opened to the public just
moments ago) In the future, we are planning to provide additional
semantics from there.
If you have additional questions, please contact me directly, since
I'm not a member on the list.
Moritz

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Lydia Pintscher
<lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de <mailto:lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de>> wrote:

 On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:44 PM Markus Krötzsch
 <mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org
 <mailto:mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org>> wrote:

 On 01.02.2016 17:14, Lydia Pintscher wrote:
  > Hey folks :)
  >
  > I just sat down with Katie to plan the next important feature
  > deployments that are coming up this month. Here is the plan:
  > * new datatype for mathematical expressions: We'll get it live on
  > test.wikidata.org <http://test.wikidata.org>
 <http://test.wikidata.org> tomorrow and then bring it
  > to wikidata.org <http://wikidata.org> <http://wikidata.org>
 on the 9th

 Documentation? What will downstream users like us need to do to
 support
 this? How is this mapped to JSON? How is this mapped to RDF?


 It is a string representing markup for the Math extension. You can
 already test it here: http://wikidata.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Q117940.
 See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Displaying_a_formula.
 Maybe Moritz wants to say  bit more as his students created the
 datatype.

 Cheers
 Lydia
 --
 Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
 Product Manager for Wikidata

 Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
 Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
 10963 Berlin
 www.wikimedia.de <http://www.wikimedi

Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-03 Thread Gerard Meijssen 
Hoi,
Do I understand that this is a special for English Wikipedia only ??

REALLY ??

Thanks,
  GerardM

On 3 February 2016 at 13:52, Schubotz, Moritz <schub...@tu-berlin.de> wrote:

> Hi Markus,
>
> it's not exactly a subset of LaTeX. Some commands were added some were
> removed. A large portion of those parts are documented here
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Displaying_a_formula , and a complete
> list is available from  http://1drv.ms/1RtoZoW
> For LaTeX users I created a LaTeX macro package so that they can copy and
> paste texvc style LaTeX code to regular LaTeX documents
> https://www.ctan.org/pkg/texvc
> However, there are two issues with this package: \and  and \or are not
> supported by my LaTeX package since redefining those commands caused
> internal problems. However, most of the time people use the standard LaTeX
> command \lor and \land anyhow. Altogether, enwiki contains 969 \lor and
> 1581 \land.
> Statistics on the usage frequencies are available from
> https://gitlab.tubit.tu-berlin.de/data/wikiFormulae/tree/master
>
> w.r.t 2) I have no idea how that relates to MathJax? Can you explain the
> background of your question?
>
> Best
> Moritz
>
>
> Moritz Schubotz
> TU Berlin, Fakultät IV
> DIMA - Sekr. EN7
> Raum E-N 741
> Einsteinufer 17
> D-10587 Berlin
> Germany
>
> Tel.: +49 30 314 22784
> Mobil:+49 1578 047 1397
> E-Mail: schub...@tu-berlin.de
> Skype: Schubi87
> ICQ: 200302764
> Msn: mor...@schubotz.de
>
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Markus Krötzsch [mailto:mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Februar 2016 12:06
> An: Discussion list for the Wikidata project.; Lydia Pintscher
> Cc: Schubotz, Moritz
> Betreff: Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features
>
> For a consumer, the main practical questions would be:
>
> (1) What subset of LaTeX exactly do you need to support to display the
> math expressions in Wikidata?
> (2) As a follow up: does MathJAX work to display this? If not, what does?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Markus
>
> On 02.02.2016 10:01, Moritz Schubotz wrote:
> > The string is interpreted by the math extension in the same way as the
> > Math extension interprets the text between the  tags.
> > There is an API to extract identifiers and the packages required to
> > render the input with regular latex from here:
> > http://api.formulasearchengine.com/v1/?doc
> > or also
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/?doc#!/Math/post_media_math_check
> > _type (The wikipedia endpoint has been opened to the public just
> > moments ago) In the future, we are planning to provide additional
> > semantics from there.
> > If you have additional questions, please contact me directly, since
> > I'm not a member on the list.
> > Moritz
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Lydia Pintscher
> > <lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de <mailto:lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de>>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:44 PM Markus Krötzsch
> > <mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org
> > <mailto:mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org>> wrote:
> >
> > On 01.02.2016 17:14, Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> >  > Hey folks :)
> >  >
> >  > I just sat down with Katie to plan the next important feature
> >  > deployments that are coming up this month. Here is the plan:
> >  > * new datatype for mathematical expressions: We'll get it
> live on
> >  > test.wikidata.org <http://test.wikidata.org>
> > <http://test.wikidata.org> tomorrow and then bring it
> >  > to wikidata.org <http://wikidata.org> <http://wikidata.org>
> > on the 9th
> >
> > Documentation? What will downstream users like us need to do to
> > support
> > this? How is this mapped to JSON? How is this mapped to RDF?
> >
> >
> > It is a string representing markup for the Math extension. You can
> > already test it here: http://wikidata.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Q117940.
> > See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Displaying_a_formula.
> > Maybe Moritz wants to say  bit more as his students created the
> > datatype.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Lydia
> > --
> > Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
> > Product Manager for Wikidata
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> > Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
> > 10963 Berlin
> > www.wikimedia.de <http://www.wikimedia.de>
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland - Ges

Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-03 Thread Daniel Kinzler 
Am 03.02.2016 um 14:01 schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
> Hoi,
> What does it do then? I understand that it is a dialect and the only use I
> understand is English WIkipedia.

Perhaps reading the mails in this thread would help with understanding what this
does. Especially the first one.

-- 
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Senior Software Developer

Wikimedia Deutschland
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Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-03 Thread Schubotz, Moritz 
Hi Markus,

it's not exactly a subset of LaTeX. Some commands were added some were removed. 
A large portion of those parts are documented here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Displaying_a_formula , and a complete list 
is available from  http://1drv.ms/1RtoZoW 
For LaTeX users I created a LaTeX macro package so that they can copy and paste 
texvc style LaTeX code to regular LaTeX documents
https://www.ctan.org/pkg/texvc
However, there are two issues with this package: \and  and \or are not 
supported by my LaTeX package since redefining those commands caused internal 
problems. However, most of the time people use the standard LaTeX command \lor 
and \land anyhow. Altogether, enwiki contains 969 \lor and 1581 \land.
Statistics on the usage frequencies are available from 
https://gitlab.tubit.tu-berlin.de/data/wikiFormulae/tree/master

w.r.t 2) I have no idea how that relates to MathJax? Can you explain the 
background of your question?

Best
Moritz 


Moritz Schubotz
TU Berlin, Fakultät IV
DIMA - Sekr. EN7
Raum E-N 741
Einsteinufer 17
D-10587 Berlin
Germany

Tel.: +49 30 314 22784
Mobil:+49 1578 047 1397
E-Mail: schub...@tu-berlin.de
Skype: Schubi87
ICQ: 200302764
Msn: mor...@schubotz.de


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Markus Krötzsch [mailto:mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org] 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Februar 2016 12:06
An: Discussion list for the Wikidata project.; Lydia Pintscher
Cc: Schubotz, Moritz
Betreff: Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

For a consumer, the main practical questions would be:

(1) What subset of LaTeX exactly do you need to support to display the math 
expressions in Wikidata?
(2) As a follow up: does MathJAX work to display this? If not, what does?

Cheers,

Markus

On 02.02.2016 10:01, Moritz Schubotz wrote:
> The string is interpreted by the math extension in the same way as the 
> Math extension interprets the text between the  tags.
> There is an API to extract identifiers and the packages required to 
> render the input with regular latex from here:
> http://api.formulasearchengine.com/v1/?doc
> or also
> https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/?doc#!/Math/post_media_math_check
> _type (The wikipedia endpoint has been opened to the public just 
> moments ago) In the future, we are planning to provide additional 
> semantics from there.
> If you have additional questions, please contact me directly, since 
> I'm not a member on the list.
> Moritz
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Lydia Pintscher 
> <lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de <mailto:lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de>> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:44 PM Markus Krötzsch
> <mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org
> <mailto:mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org>> wrote:
>
> On 01.02.2016 17:14, Lydia Pintscher wrote:
>  > Hey folks :)
>  >
>  > I just sat down with Katie to plan the next important feature
>  > deployments that are coming up this month. Here is the plan:
>  > * new datatype for mathematical expressions: We'll get it live on
>  > test.wikidata.org <http://test.wikidata.org>
> <http://test.wikidata.org> tomorrow and then bring it
>  > to wikidata.org <http://wikidata.org> <http://wikidata.org>
> on the 9th
>
> Documentation? What will downstream users like us need to do to
> support
> this? How is this mapped to JSON? How is this mapped to RDF?
>
>
> It is a string representing markup for the Math extension. You can
> already test it here: http://wikidata.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Q117940.
> See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Displaying_a_formula.
> Maybe Moritz wants to say  bit more as his students created the
> datatype.
>
> Cheers
> Lydia
> --
> Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
> Product Manager for Wikidata
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
> 10963 Berlin
> www.wikimedia.de <http://www.wikimedia.de>
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
>
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
> Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig
> anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin,
> Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Moritz Schubotz
> TU Berlin, Fakultät IV
> DIMA - Sekr. EN7
> Raum EN742
> Einsteinufer 17
> D-10587 Berlin
> Germany
>
> Tel.: +49 30 314 22784
> Mobil.: +49 1578 047 1397
> Fax:  +49 30 314 21601
> E-Mail: schub...@tu-berlin.de <mailto:schub...@tu-berlin.de>
> Skype: Schubi87
> ICQ: 200302764
> Msn: mor...@schubotz.de
>
>
>

Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-03 Thread Daniel Kinzler 
Am 03.02.2016 um 14:31 schrieb Markus Krötzsch:
> Hi Moritz,
> 
> I must say that this is not very reassuring. So basically what we have in this
> datatype now is a "LaTeX-like" markup language that is only supported by one
> implementation that was created for MediaWiki, and partially by a LaTeX 
> package
> that you created.

Markus, this TeX dialoect is not a new invention by Moritz. It's what the Math
extension for MediaWiki has been using for over a decade now, and it's used on
hundreds of thousands of pages on Wikipedia. All that we are doing now is making
this same exact syntax available for property values on wikibase, using the same
exact code for rendering it.

I think having consistent handling for math formulas between wikitext and
wikibase is the right thing to do. Of course it would have been nice for
MediaWiki to not invent it's own TeX dialect for this, but it's 10 years to late
for that complaint now.

Moritz, I seem to recall that the new Math extension uses a standalone service
for rendering TeX to PNG, SVG, or MathML. Can that service easily be used
outside the context of MediaWiki?

-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Senior Software Developer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

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Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-03 Thread Schubotz, Moritz 
Hi Markus,

I think we agree on the goals cf. http://arxiv.org/abs/1404.6179
By the way the texvc dialect is now 13 years old at least.
For now it's required to be 100% compatible to the texvc dialect in order to 
use wikidata in Mediawiki instances.
However, for the future there are also plans to support more markup.
But all new options are blocked by https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T74240

Mathoid, the service that converts the texvc dialect to MathML, SVG + PNG can 
also be used without a MediaWiki instance.
I posted links to the Restbase Web UI before.

api.formulasearchengine.com (with experimental features)
de.wikipedia.org/api (stable)

Moritz



Am 03.02.2016 um 14:31 schrieb Markus Krötzsch:
> Hi Moritz,
> 
> I must say that this is not very reassuring. So basically what we have in this
> datatype now is a "LaTeX-like" markup language that is only supported by one
> implementation that was created for MediaWiki, and partially by a LaTeX 
> package
> that you created.

Markus, this TeX dialoect is not a new invention by Moritz. It's what the Math
extension for MediaWiki has been using for over a decade now, and it's used on
hundreds of thousands of pages on Wikipedia. All that we are doing now is making
this same exact syntax available for property values on wikibase, using the same
exact code for rendering it.

I think having consistent handling for math formulas between wikitext and
wikibase is the right thing to do. Of course it would have been nice for
MediaWiki to not invent it's own TeX dialect for this, but it's 10 years to late
for that complaint now.

Moritz, I seem to recall that the new Math extension uses a standalone service
for rendering TeX to PNG, SVG, or MathML. Can that service easily be used
outside the context of MediaWiki?



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
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Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-03 Thread Markus Krötzsch 

On 03.02.2016 14:38, Daniel Kinzler wrote:

Am 03.02.2016 um 14:31 schrieb Markus Krötzsch:

Hi Moritz,

I must say that this is not very reassuring. So basically what we have in this
datatype now is a "LaTeX-like" markup language that is only supported by one
implementation that was created for MediaWiki, and partially by a LaTeX package
that you created.


Markus, this TeX dialoect is not a new invention by Moritz. It's what the Math
extension for MediaWiki has been using for over a decade now, and it's used on
hundreds of thousands of pages on Wikipedia. All that we are doing now is making
this same exact syntax available for property values on wikibase, using the same
exact code for rendering it.

I think having consistent handling for math formulas between wikitext and
wikibase is the right thing to do. Of course it would have been nice for
MediaWiki to not invent it's own TeX dialect for this, but it's 10 years to late
for that complaint now.


I do not agree with this argument. One could use a simplified version 
that is compatible with Wikipedia *and* with the rest of the world. We 
do not have MediaWiki markup in our text data, in spite of it being 
widely used on Wikipedia for many years -- instead, we now introduce a 
subset of it (the part you could put into ). If we have settled 
for a subset, why not use one that works with more commonly used tools 
as well? I don't think that MediaWiki LaTeX users would find it very 
hard to go back to the LaTeX they use elsewhere (in their own documents, 
on StackExchange, etc.).


A question you should ask when making extensions to the Wikidata data 
model is how much it will cost your data users to keep supporting 
Wikidata content in full. Such little twists, for a few extra commands, 
are creating extra work for many people.


The initial announcement one week before roll-out in the live system is 
not ideal either, adding some urgency to make this even more expensive. 
Now, four days later, even the final JSON datatype id for this has not 
been communicated yet ... we have 5 days left to update our code and 
make new releases. Of course, this schedule would leave no time for 
downstream users of our tools to update to the new version.


Data model updates are costly. Don't make them on a week's notice, 
without prior discussion, and without having any documentation ready to 
give to data users. It would also be good to announce breaking technical 
changes more prominently on wikidata-tech as well.


It would also be nice to include some motivation in your announcement 
(like "we expect at least 100K items -- 0.5% of current items -- to use 
properties of this type"). In the case of math, I could find some 
infoboxes that use LaTeX, so I guess this is what you are aiming for? I 
am not sure how many pages use such data though (inline math is of 
course very frequent, but it's not something you would store on 
Wikidata). If everybody can see why this is really needed, it will also 
increase acceptance in spite of some technical quirks.


Regards,

Markus




Moritz, I seem to recall that the new Math extension uses a standalone service
for rendering TeX to PNG, SVG, or MathML. Can that service easily be used
outside the context of MediaWiki?




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Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-03 Thread Markus Krötzsch 

Hi Moritz,

On 03.02.2016 15:25, Schubotz, Moritz wrote:

Hi Markus,

I think we agree on the goals cf. http://arxiv.org/abs/1404.6179
By the way the texvc dialect is now 13 years old at least.
For now it's required to be 100% compatible to the texvc dialect in order to 
use wikidata in Mediawiki instances.
However, for the future there are also plans to support more markup.
But all new options are blocked by https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T74240

Mathoid, the service that converts the texvc dialect to MathML, SVG + PNG can 
also be used without a MediaWiki instance.
I posted links to the Restbase Web UI before.

api.formulasearchengine.com (with experimental features)
de.wikipedia.org/api (stable)


This is the API you said "has been opened to the public just moments 
ago" and which describes itself as "currently in beta testing"? That 
seems a bit shaky to say the least. In your email, you said that this 
API was for extracting LaTeX package names and identifiers, not for 
rendering content, so I have not looked at it for this purpose. How does 
this compare to MathJax in terms of usage? Are the output types similar? 
It seems your solution adds the dependency on an external server, so 
this cannot be used in offline mode, I suppose? How does it support 
styling of content for your own application, e.g., how do you select the 
fonts to be used?


I think we agree that real documentation should be a bit more than an 
unexplained link in an email. Anyway, it is not your role to provide 
documentation on new Wikidata features or to make sure that stakeholders 
are taken along when new features are deployed, so don't worry too much 
about this. I am sure your students did a good job implementing this, 
and from there on it is really in other people's hands.


Cheers,

Markus





Am 03.02.2016 um 14:31 schrieb Markus Krötzsch:

Hi Moritz,

I must say that this is not very reassuring. So basically what we have in this
datatype now is a "LaTeX-like" markup language that is only supported by one
implementation that was created for MediaWiki, and partially by a LaTeX package
that you created.


Markus, this TeX dialoect is not a new invention by Moritz. It's what the Math
extension for MediaWiki has been using for over a decade now, and it's used on
hundreds of thousands of pages on Wikipedia. All that we are doing now is making
this same exact syntax available for property values on wikibase, using the same
exact code for rendering it.

I think having consistent handling for math formulas between wikitext and
wikibase is the right thing to do. Of course it would have been nice for
MediaWiki to not invent it's own TeX dialect for this, but it's 10 years to late
for that complaint now.

Moritz, I seem to recall that the new Math extension uses a standalone service
for rendering TeX to PNG, SVG, or MathML. Can that service easily be used
outside the context of MediaWiki?




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Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-03 Thread Gerard Meijssen 
Hoi,
What does it do then? I understand that it is a dialect and the only use I
understand is English WIkipedia.
Thanks,
 GerardM

On 3 February 2016 at 13:59, Daniel Kinzler 
wrote:

> Am 03.02.2016 um 13:57 schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
> > Hoi,
> > Do I understand that this is a special for English Wikipedia only ??
>
> No. It just makes the functionality of  availabel on wikidata.
>
>
> --
> Daniel Kinzler
> Senior Software Developer
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland
> Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
>
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Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-02 Thread Stas Malyshev 
Hi!

> Can you try again please? And in an in-cognito window? I just tried it
> and it works for me: https://test.wikidata.org/wiki/Q649 We've had some
> issues with local store though.

Weird, does work for me incognito but not when logged in.

> The datatype changes but the value type stays string. So depending on
> what they use they might need to be adapted.

RDF export seems to be fine, except that we need to update OWL and docs
for new types, I'll check pywikibot a bit later.

-- 
Stas Malyshev
smalys...@wikimedia.org

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Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-02 Thread Moritz Schubotz 
The string is interpreted by the math extension in the same way as the Math
extension interprets the text between the  tags.
There is an API to extract identifiers and the packages required to render
the input with regular latex from here:
http://api.formulasearchengine.com/v1/?doc
or also
https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/?doc#!/Math/post_media_math_check_type
(The wikipedia endpoint has been opened to the public just moments ago)
In the future, we are planning to provide additional semantics from there.
If you have additional questions, please contact me directly, since I'm not
a member on the list.
Moritz

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Lydia Pintscher  wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:44 PM Markus Krötzsch <
> mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org> wrote:
>
>> On 01.02.2016 17:14, Lydia Pintscher wrote:
>> > Hey folks :)
>> >
>> > I just sat down with Katie to plan the next important feature
>> > deployments that are coming up this month. Here is the plan:
>> > * new datatype for mathematical expressions: We'll get it live on
>> > test.wikidata.org  tomorrow and then bring it
>> > to wikidata.org  on the 9th
>>
>> Documentation? What will downstream users like us need to do to support
>> this? How is this mapped to JSON? How is this mapped to RDF?
>>
>
> It is a string representing markup for the Math extension. You can already
> test it here: http://wikidata.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Q117940. See also
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Displaying_a_formula. Maybe Moritz
> wants to say  bit more as his students created the datatype.
>
> Cheers
> Lydia
> --
> Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
> Product Manager for Wikidata
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
> 10963 Berlin
> www.wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
>
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt
> für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
>



-- 
Moritz Schubotz
TU Berlin, Fakultät IV
DIMA - Sekr. EN7
Raum EN742
Einsteinufer 17
D-10587 Berlin
Germany

Tel.: +49 30 314 22784
Mobil.: +49 1578 047 1397
Fax:  +49 30 314 21601
E-Mail: schub...@tu-berlin.de
Skype: Schubi87
ICQ: 200302764
Msn: mor...@schubotz.de
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Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-02 Thread John Mark Vandenberg 
On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Stas Malyshev  wrote:
> Hi!
>
>> Can you try again please? And in an in-cognito window? I just tried it
>> and it works for me: https://test.wikidata.org/wiki/Q649 We've had some
>> issues with local store though.
>
> Weird, does work for me incognito but not when logged in.
>
>> The datatype changes but the value type stays string. So depending on
>> what they use they might need to be adapted.
>
> RDF export seems to be fine, except that we need to update OWL and docs
> for new types, I'll check pywikibot a bit later.

We've already done analysis for pywikibot.  It will fail badly -- the
api cache needs to be manually cleaned, however there are some
improvements we can make so that the transition is smooth.
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T123882

-- 
John Vandenberg

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Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-01 Thread Markus Krötzsch 

On 01.02.2016 17:14, Lydia Pintscher wrote:

Hey folks :)

I just sat down with Katie to plan the next important feature
deployments that are coming up this month. Here is the plan:
* new datatype for mathematical expressions: We'll get it live on
test.wikidata.org  tomorrow and then bring it
to wikidata.org  on the 9th


Documentation? What will downstream users like us need to do to support 
this? How is this mapped to JSON? How is this mapped to RDF?


Markus


* Article Placeholder: We'll get it to test.wikipedia.org
 on the 9th
* new datatype for identifiers: we'll bring it to wikidata.org
 on the 16th. We'll convert existing properties
according to the list on
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Addshore/Identifiers in two rounds on
17th and 18th.
* In Other Projects Sidebar: We'll enable it by default on 16th for all
projects that do not opt-out on https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T103102.
* interwiki links via Wikidata for Wikiversity: We'll enable phase 1 on
Wikiversity on the 23rd.


Cheers
Lydia
--
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
Product Manager for Wikidata

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
10963 Berlin
www.wikimedia.de 

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.

Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.


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[Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-01 Thread Lydia Pintscher 
Hey folks :)

I just sat down with Katie to plan the next important feature deployments
that are coming up this month. Here is the plan:
* new datatype for mathematical expressions: We'll get it live on
test.wikidata.org tomorrow and then bring it to wikidata.org on the 9th
* Article Placeholder: We'll get it to test.wikipedia.org on the 9th
* new datatype for identifiers: we'll bring it to wikidata.org on the 16th.
We'll convert existing properties according to the list on
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Addshore/Identifiers in two rounds on
17th and 18th.
* In Other Projects Sidebar: We'll enable it by default on 16th for all
projects that do not opt-out on https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T103102.
* interwiki links via Wikidata for Wikiversity: We'll enable phase 1 on
Wikiversity on the 23rd.


Cheers
Lydia
-- 
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
Product Manager for Wikidata

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
10963 Berlin
www.wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.

Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
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Re: [Wikidata] upcoming deployments/features

2016-02-01 Thread Lydia Pintscher 
On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:44 PM Markus Krötzsch <
mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org> wrote:

> On 01.02.2016 17:14, Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> > Hey folks :)
> >
> > I just sat down with Katie to plan the next important feature
> > deployments that are coming up this month. Here is the plan:
> > * new datatype for mathematical expressions: We'll get it live on
> > test.wikidata.org  tomorrow and then bring it
> > to wikidata.org  on the 9th
>
> Documentation? What will downstream users like us need to do to support
> this? How is this mapped to JSON? How is this mapped to RDF?
>

It is a string representing markup for the Math extension. You can already
test it here: http://wikidata.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Q117940. See also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Displaying_a_formula. Maybe Moritz wants
to say  bit more as his students created the datatype.

Cheers
Lydia
-- 
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
Product Manager for Wikidata

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
10963 Berlin
www.wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.

Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
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