[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

dbarratt added a comment. In T54564#6256512 , @Eugene wrote: > Is T235420 the same? Currently it throws an error if you try to add a sitelink that is a redirect, I'm not sure which task

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Ameisenigel added a comment. In T54564#6256512 , @Eugene wrote: > Is T235420 the same? Yes. TASK DETAIL https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T54564 EMAIL PREFERENCES

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Bovlb added a comment. In T54564#3957162 , @Izno wrote: > Thought of a technical solution, might as well throw it out there: > > 1. Let's say we create a new magic word, something like `__WIKIDATAREDIRECT__`. > 2. Place the magic

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

dbarratt added a comment. Added a work-around to the project description. Since this work-around works (but is clunky), then I think it should be allowed within Wikidata.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T54564EMAIL

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

ChristianKl added a comment. The constraint that it has to be symmetric would be removed by the RfC through allowing the redirect links. One those links are there it would be possible to provide additional links via a plugin to link from an English "Bonnie and Clyde" article to a German "Bonnie"

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Ltrlg added a comment. Wikidata added the constraint that the relation is symmetric, though.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T54564EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: LtrlgCc: Alsee, Capankajsmilyo, Eugene, PokestarFan, ArthurPSmith,

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Izno added a comment. In T54564#3956902, @Alsee wrote: And that foreign article needs to link to both English articles. Wikidata's faulty insistence on 1-to-1 realtionships causes problems for both editors and readers. This "need" is not Wikidata's fault (though Wikidata could potentially be

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Izno added a comment. Thought of a technical solution, might as well throw it out there: Let's say we create a new magic word, something like __WIKIDATAREDIRECT__. Place the magic word on a Bonnie redirect. Wikidata treats that page like it's a normal page (with all the associated constraints

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Alsee added a comment. I believe discussing this as a "Bonnie and Clyde problem" has led to flawed examination and flawed arguments, due to the example cited. Wikidata was largely designed, and largely operated by that community, on the theory that there is supposed to be a 1-to-1 relationship

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Eugene added a comment.Herald added a subscriber: PokestarFan. I think we should first answer the question: before wikidata came, had we allowed iwiki links to chapters of the article, i. e. like this: [[de:Figuren in Tolkiens Welt#Aragorn]]? As far as I can see such links were allowed in all

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Jane023 added a comment. I think the problem that forms the basis of this task is not very well formulated. It might be worthwhile to convert this task into one of documentation on Wikidata and if people still feel strongly after understanding all the issues, then maybe link it to some strategy

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

MGChecker added a comment. Please note I didn't readd you on purpose, looks like Phabricator did it automaticly because of the quote.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T54564EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: MGCheckerCc: Multichill,

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Multichill added a comment. In T54564#3440166, @MGChecker wrote: I really think conversating like this isn't helpful, but just arrogant. I don't like to be insulted. You do know that phab is covered by https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct ?TASK

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

MGChecker added a comment. In T54564#3439290, @ArthurPSmith wrote: I don't understand why Multichill can unilaterally alter the priority on this request in the face of an active wikidata RFC where the voting has been 2:1 in support of this change. It would also be nice to get some actual feedback

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Multichill added a comment. You can change it to unbreak now and still nothing will happen. This task has a bright future of rotting at the bottom of the backlog.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T54564EMAIL

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

MGChecker added a comment. In T54564#3296923, @Multichill wrote: You're wasting your time people. This is not going to happen. The software won't be changed because this goes against the core data model of Wikidata. Are you able to reason this opinion? I don't see any point wehre this would be

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Multichill added a comment. And https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/A_need_for_a_resolution_regarding_article_moves_and_redirects (thanks Jane)TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T54564EMAIL

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

ChristianKl added a comment. I created an RFC: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_commentTASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T54564EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: ChristianKlCc: Agabi10, Choomaq, IKhitron, QZanden,

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

ChristianKl added a comment. @Agabi10 I don't think that's an issue in practice. Wikipedia tells a user on top of the page that they are redirected. I have created dozen's of redirects and haven't seen one getting removed. Redirects aren't only useful for the Bonnie and Clyde for interwiki links.

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Agabi10 added a comment. @MGChecker I'm not talking about linking the properties, I'm talking about displaying them based on the property. It doesn't affect Wikidata, while it will have the desired behavior on the client wikis. Anyway you may not realize that even if what you are saying about the

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

MGChecker added a comment. In T54564#3296244, @Agabi10 wrote: I don't think that allowing sitelinks to redirect pages would be good in this context. I think that a better solution for this problem would be displaying the sitelinks to the elements linked by the properties has part (P527) and part

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Agabi10 added a comment. I don't think that allowing sitelinks to redirect pages would be good in this context. I think that a better solution for this problem would be displaying the sitelinks to the elements linked by the properties has part (P527) and part of (P361) of the Wikidata item. This

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

MGChecker added a comment. Can we please try to get an consensus regarding this topic. It may be a controversial topic, but it can't be we're just talking 4 years about it without any results to make a decision possible, Furthermore, this is an important problem of Wikibase in my opinion.TASK

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Mike_Peel added a comment. I wonder if this might be better done through a property that allows qualifiers, so that each redirect can be marked up with the rationale for why it is a redirect (including common typos, foreign language versions, etc.). Although quite how that could interact with

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Choomaq added a comment. ! In T54564#3165384, @Fomafix wrote: In T42755 there was suggested to use the magic word __STATICREDIRECT__ as indicator for allowing sitelinks to redirects. Ok, it can be solution. But as far as I can see it is still not allowed.TASK

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Fomafix added a comment. In T54564#3163993, @Choomaq wrote: there are different types of redirects. In T42755 there was suggested to use the magic word __STATICREDIRECT__ as indicator for allowing sitelinks to redirects.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T54564EMAIL

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Choomaq added a comment. there are different types of redirects. Sometimes it is just another spelling. In this case obviously it should not be able to be added to wikidata. But there are also redirects from merges which must be connected to an instance on wikidata.TASK

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Toto256 added a comment. Not allowing sitelinks to redirects make it difficult to distinguish between compression formats and software ; see https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Informatics/Software#Distinction_between_software_and_file_format.2C_in_particular_in_compressionTASK

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

TomT0m added a comment. @kaldari : the proposed solutions with arbitrary access are here : https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Cross_Items_Interwikis TASK DETAIL https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T54564 EMAIL PREFERENCES

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Fomafix added a comment. This is a special case of the Bonnie and Clyde problem. This Bonnie and Clyde problem is: 1. Q219937 : Bonnie and Clyde 2. Q2319886 : Bonnie Parker 3. Q3320282

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

kaldari added a comment. @Rich_Farmbrough: So basically you are suggesting that we allow an individual MediaWiki page to be associated with multiple Wikidata items. @Lydia_Pintscher: What is the feasibility of that? TASK DETAIL https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T54564 EMAIL PREFERENCES

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Rich_Farmbrough added a comment. The correct solution for this problem is clear if we separate the concept of Wikipedia articles from Wikidata items. Then from the English Wikipedia page for [[potato]], for example, we would expect to see in the "other languages" section: Other

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Jane023 added a comment. In https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T54564#2286466, @ChristianKl wrote: > If Wikidata wants to draw new contributors then it would be valuable if you don't need to use complicated hacks to create sitelinks to redirects. Generally new contributors to

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

ChristianKl added a comment. If Wikidata wants to draw new contributors then it would be valuable if you don't need to use complicated hacks to create sitelinks to redirects. TASK DETAIL https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T54564 EMAIL PREFERENCES

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Izno added a comment. Generally, all of the above. My stance at least has changed, if no others. TASK DETAIL https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T54564 EMAIL PREFERENCES https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/ To: Izno Cc: Zppix, ChristianKl, Mike_Peel,

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Nemo_bis added a comment. By "status quo", do you mean the Wikipedia status quo (sitelinks link to redirects etc. where necessary), the Wikidata status quo (sitelinks to redirects are permitted) or the Wikibase status quo (sitelinks to redirects aren't technically supported)? TASK DETAIL

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

Izno added a comment. In https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T54564#2270810, @ChristianKl wrote: > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/A_need_for_a_resolution_regarding_article_moves_and_redirects seems to have had a consensus described as "Consensus is clear:

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

ChristianKl added a comment. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/A_need_for_a_resolution_regarding_article_moves_and_redirects seems to have had a consensus described as "Consensus is clear: Wikidata links to Wikipedia redirect pages are allowed. I will file a bug to

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

kaldari added a comment. I don't think Izno's solution will be practical due to caching issues. TASK DETAIL https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T54564 EMAIL PREFERENCES https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/ To: kaldari Cc: SebastianHelm, MisterSynergy, Oliv0,

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

SebastianHelm added a subscriber: SebastianHelm. SebastianHelm added a comment. I am setting the priority to "Normal" because, as Tgr said, with many echoing the sentiment: "It breaks one of the most fundamental functions of the wiki software, that a reader can easily find more information on

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T54564: Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

SebastianHelm added a comment. From Izno's message above it seems that we all agree that it's an issue, but we may not agree on the specific solution. So it may be appropriate to change the title simply to "Bonnie and Clyde problem". TASK DETAIL https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T54564