[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T167788: [Task] Dates written as 9/7/2017 should not always be parsed as American MM/DD/YYYY
thiemowmde added a comment. I'm afraid such a comment won't make anybody work on this harder. TASK DETAIL https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T167788 EMAIL PREFERENCES https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/ To: thiemowmde Cc: Tagishsimon, The_RedBurn, JAnD, Wikidata-bugs, gerritbot, Agabi10, He7d3r, matej_suchanek, Liuxinyu970226, PokestarFan, Lea_Lacroix_WMDE, daniel, Lydia_Pintscher, thiemowmde, Izno, Aklapper, agray, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, aude, Mbch331 ___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T167788: [Task] Dates written as 9/7/2017 should not always be parsed as American MM/DD/YYYY
Tagishsimon added a comment. UI which has the capacity to mangle input and demands that the user must do something beyond their simple input of the date, is unambiguously, categorically and unimpeachably broken. It should be considered as such. TASK DETAIL https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T167788 EMAIL PREFERENCES https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/ To: Tagishsimon Cc: Tagishsimon, The_RedBurn, JAnD, Wikidata-bugs, gerritbot, Agabi10, He7d3r, matej_suchanek, Liuxinyu970226, PokestarFan, Lea_Lacroix_WMDE, daniel, Lydia_Pintscher, thiemowmde, Izno, Aklapper, agray, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, aude, Mbch331 ___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T167788: [Task] Dates written as 9/7/2017 should not always be parsed as American MM/DD/YYYY
thiemowmde added a comment. As far as I understand the situation, it is not considered "broken". Whatever the user does, they **must** check the preview to see if the date parsers guess is correct. This won't change, no matter how good the parsers guess is. But yes, it's absolutely possible to improve the parser even further. Unfortunately, I'm not actively working on this code any more myself. Personally, I like the idea of checking the users time zone, if they provided one in their preferences. This might sound strange. After all, the user is not copy-pasting dates that are about the user, right? They might paste from all kinds of sources, American and non-American. But: I believe this would still be tremendously helpful, because the experts behavior matches the users **expectation** much, much closer then. An American user is used to 9/7/2017 becoming "September", while non-Americans are much more used to it becoming "July". Also, I believe we can safely assume that non-Americans user are more likely to paste dates from non-American sources. The amount of mistakes (e.g. when the user does **not** check the preview carefully) would be much lower this way, I feel. As a workaround it might be possible to create a gadget that kicks in when it detects an input with slashes and both numbers below 13, and asks which of the two possible interpretations the user wants. Such a gadget can be written by the community or by the Wikidata team as an opt-in feature for users who struggle with this. TASK DETAIL https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T167788 EMAIL PREFERENCES https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/ To: thiemowmde Cc: Tagishsimon, The_RedBurn, JAnD, Wikidata-bugs, gerritbot, Agabi10, He7d3r, matej_suchanek, Liuxinyu970226, PokestarFan, Lea_Lacroix_WMDE, daniel, Lydia_Pintscher, thiemowmde, Izno, Aklapper, agray, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, aude, Mbch331 ___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T167788: [Task] Dates written as 9/7/2017 should not always be parsed as American MM/DD/YYYY
Tagishsimon added a comment. We could maybe have a preference, such that the user can specify whether they want date parsing to be based on an assumption of MM/DD/ or DD/MM/. Stop guessing. Ask the users. I see this bug is 2.5 years old. Which is fine. Because it only sucks hugely every single time I enter a date where month & day values are below 13. No rush. TASK DETAIL https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T167788 EMAIL PREFERENCES https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/ To: Tagishsimon Cc: Tagishsimon, The_RedBurn, JAnD, Wikidata-bugs, gerritbot, Agabi10, He7d3r, matej_suchanek, Liuxinyu970226, PokestarFan, Lea_Lacroix_WMDE, daniel, Lydia_Pintscher, thiemowmde, Izno, Aklapper, agray, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, aude, Mbch331 ___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T167788: [Task] Dates written as 9/7/2017 should not always be parsed as American MM/DD/YYYY
The_RedBurn added a comment. In T167788#3390329, @thiemowmde wrote: I'm afraid there is no way any parser can ever be sure what "9/7/2017" means. Even if we use your IP address or location (something we should never do because of privacy reasons), or the interface language from your preferences, it might still either mean MM/DD/ or DD/MM/. The only thing we can (and want to) use is the date format from your personal preferences at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering. See https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/153211. Actually, we could use the location, as do the Compact Language Links . Combined if necessary with the user set language, that should give us a pretty good guess.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T167788EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: The_RedBurnCc: The_RedBurn, JAnD, Wikidata-bugs, gerritbot, Agabi10, He7d3r, matej_suchanek, Liuxinyu970226, PokestarFan, Lea_Lacroix_WMDE, daniel, Lydia_Pintscher, thiemowmde, Izno, Aklapper, agray, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T167788: [Task] Dates written as 9/7/2017 should not always be parsed as American MM/DD/YYYY
The_RedBurn added a comment. In T167788#4559199, @Izno wrote: In T167788#4559189, @The_RedBurn wrote: In T167788#4551700, @Izno wrote: There are a few other countries in the same time zones... Those time zones are defined by country, not by hour differential, so that's not a problem. So far as I am aware, the system only cares about offset from UTC. So no, it is a problem. Indeed, I thought the time zone setting with city had been automatically set, but it turns out it was me at some point earlier. So no luck with the time zone setting. :(TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T167788EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: The_RedBurnCc: The_RedBurn, JAnD, Wikidata-bugs, gerritbot, Agabi10, He7d3r, matej_suchanek, Liuxinyu970226, PokestarFan, Lea_Lacroix_WMDE, daniel, Lydia_Pintscher, thiemowmde, Izno, Aklapper, agray, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T167788: [Task] Dates written as 9/7/2017 should not always be parsed as American MM/DD/YYYY
Izno added a comment. In T167788#4559189, @The_RedBurn wrote: In T167788#4551700, @Izno wrote: There are a few other countries in the same time zones... Those time zones are defined by country, not by hour differential, so that's not a problem. So far as I am aware, the system only cares about offset from UTC. So no, it is a problem.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T167788EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: IznoCc: The_RedBurn, JAnD, Wikidata-bugs, gerritbot, Agabi10, He7d3r, matej_suchanek, Liuxinyu970226, PokestarFan, Lea_Lacroix_WMDE, daniel, Lydia_Pintscher, thiemowmde, Izno, Aklapper, agray, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T167788: [Task] Dates written as 9/7/2017 should not always be parsed as American MM/DD/YYYY
The_RedBurn added a comment. In T167788#4551700, @Izno wrote: There are a few other countries in the same time zones... Those time zones are defined by country, not by hour differential, so that's not a problem.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T167788EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: The_RedBurnCc: The_RedBurn, JAnD, Wikidata-bugs, gerritbot, Agabi10, He7d3r, matej_suchanek, Liuxinyu970226, PokestarFan, Lea_Lacroix_WMDE, daniel, Lydia_Pintscher, thiemowmde, Izno, Aklapper, agray, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T167788: [Task] Dates written as 9/7/2017 should not always be parsed as American MM/DD/YYYY
Izno added a comment. In T167788#4551486, @The_RedBurn wrote: The time zone as defined in https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering can also be used to check if the user is in the United States. If not, DD/MM/ can also be used. No need to use the IP address. There are a few other countries in the same time zones...TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T167788EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: IznoCc: The_RedBurn, JAnD, Wikidata-bugs, gerritbot, Agabi10, He7d3r, matej_suchanek, Liuxinyu970226, PokestarFan, Lea_Lacroix_WMDE, daniel, Lydia_Pintscher, thiemowmde, Izno, Aklapper, agray, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T167788: [Task] Dates written as 9/7/2017 should not always be parsed as American MM/DD/YYYY
The_RedBurn added a comment. Based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country, apart from two English speaking islands, the United States is the only country to interpret 07/09/2017 as MM/DD/. So for languages other than English, DD/MM/ seems to me the norm. The time zone as defined in https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering can also be used to check if the user is in the United States. If not, DD/MM/ can also be used. No need to use the IP address. By combining these two approaches, the number of wrongly recognized dates should be minimal.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T167788EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: The_RedBurnCc: The_RedBurn, JAnD, Wikidata-bugs, gerritbot, Agabi10, He7d3r, matej_suchanek, Liuxinyu970226, PokestarFan, Lea_Lacroix_WMDE, daniel, Lydia_Pintscher, thiemowmde, Izno, Aklapper, agray, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T167788: [Task] Dates written as 9/7/2017 should not always be parsed as American MM/DD/YYYY
Izno added a comment. In T167788#3918820, @matej_suchanek wrote: This looks same as T67722: Wikidata parses dates incorrectly (in Portuguese). Agreed.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T167788EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: IznoCc: matej_suchanek, Liuxinyu970226, PokestarFan, Lea_Lacroix_WMDE, daniel, Lydia_Pintscher, thiemowmde, Izno, Aklapper, agray, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T167788: [Task] Dates written as 9/7/2017 should not always be parsed as American MM/DD/YYYY
agray added a comment. [Apologies - forgot to ever put in a response to this. Thanks for looking into it.] I agree that 07/09/2017 is always a bit ambiguous and we can never reliably say what the user means. But I guess what's confusing me here is that 07-09-2017 or 07 09 2017 are also a bit ambiguous and we can never reliably say what the user means, even if we think it's a little more likely to be one rather than the other. It feels like we should either treat them all the same way, defaulting to DMY, or reject them all as invalid and ask the user to resubmit. I don't understand what's gained by having a different presumption based solely on the punctuation used. However, I guess that if this weird behaviour is something we're inheriting from PHP, there's not much we can do about it!TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T167788EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: agrayCc: Liuxinyu970226, PokestarFan, Lea_Lacroix_WMDE, daniel, Lydia_Pintscher, thiemowmde, Izno, Aklapper, agray, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
