[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 updated the task description.

TASK DETAIL
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Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 added a comment.


  @Lydia_Pintscher Looks like we wont get further input.
  
  - Tasks to consider above are mostly unchanged (obviously there are others, 
less related to Wikidata). Maybe the common point is that these are all 
additions or updates to configuration variables or language lists primarily 
used on Wikidata. Nobody expects T284808 
 to be fixed within a month.
  - A problem I found when doing maintenance on these is that the requests were 
distributed in many different projects and states without much consistency. 
Requests about problems at Wikidata weren't touched in months despite being 
trivial to solve. I think it's helpful if maintenance sorts them into 
predetermined projects and statuses regularly. T284856 
 tries to help with that. The states 
are now outlined above and if someone from your team checks and sorts them 
periodically that would simplify things.
  - As there seems to be a preference not to use "due date" for follow up, I 
stopped using this. The board at #language_code makes it easier to follow up.
  - I don't think we can avoid problems like changing "no" to "nb", but I don't 
recall this being particularly painful or problematic for Wikidata 
contributors. Afterall we are using IETF language tags and content can easily 
be edited at Wikidata (contrary to interface messages where the language code 
is carved in stone). Also, T273705  
helped me realize that the problems for incubator with new language code is 
practically nil, a view apparently shared by Incubator admins (see here 
). It can be painful for some people tasked to proceed with some of 
the steps here to realize that things don't quite advance as much as they like, 
but I think that happens to all of us once in a while.
  
  If WMDE actively seeks grant money to expand Wikidata/Wikibase to other 
languages, it would probably help to make sure the process discussed here is 
more clear.

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To: Esc3300
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Lydia_Pintscher]

Lydia_Pintscher added a comment.


  We need to distinguish tickets that are additions of language codes and other 
language-related tickets. They are not the same and do not follow the same 
processes etc. This ticket was only about standardizing turn-around times for 
the addition of new language codes based on its title. For the process around 
this we have the language code phabricator board for some time now and that 
seems to have made the process much clearer, more transparent and tickets are 
in my opinion moving through it swiftly enough. The one thing that takes a bit 
longer still is getting language committee input. Since none of these tickets 
are life or death situations I prefer to get meaningful input from people 
tasked with understanding the complexity of languages in Wikimedia instead of 
making a change and then having to go through discussions about why it was 
wrong and undo it because that is more painful. So let's think about how we can 
help make getting that input easier (and I fear setting a deadline doesn't 
qualify as making it easier). @Amire80 if anything comes to your mind please 
let me know.
  
  All other ticket triage related to language or not: generally setting 
deadlines on tickets, understanding if something is suitable for other 
contributors to pick up and deciding if a ticket is ready for the development 
team should be with the team (if in doubt the product manager or tech lead). I 
think we're spending quite a bit more time and energy in discussions on 
language processes than is warranted compared to the many other things people 
want to see done around Wikidata.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 added a comment.


  @Lydia_Pintscher  on some of the open points:
  
  - what's your view on the triage of tickets? Do you want to do it? Are the 
various boards/statuses fine with you? There was some debate about it at 
T168295#7165601 
  - how long should it take on Contact_the_development_team 
?
  - are there are others we should enhance/complete?
  
  It seems that the recent new review and triage of the tickets helped move 
ahead. I added an update about it to the weekly news.

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To: Esc3300
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Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 updated the task description.

TASK DETAIL
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To: Esc3300
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Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 added a comment.


  If we knew what problem you are trying to solve and the time this may take, 
we could help you address it.
  
  There seem to be aspects that are understood differently by Wikibase 
developers and the Wikidata community compared to langcom, so the langcom 
review can appear incomprehensible/irrelevant (e.g. T165648 
). Also, the process you follow 
seems unclear (e.g. T252198 ).
  
  For langcom, it may appear as a mere inefficiency if these aren't reviewed in 
a timely manner, but to people requesting such codes for endangered languages 
it may appear particularly insensitive.
  
  Let's just bear in mind that the codes follow a system designed for it and 
constructive feedback from langcom is always welcome.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Amire80]

Amire80 added a comment.


  In T284276#7160323 , 
@Esc3300 wrote:
  
  > In T284276#7160314 , 
@Amire80 wrote:
  >
  >> Emails //from Phabricator// are not very efficient.
  >
  > If you want to participate in a phabricator based process at some point you 
need to adopt its use.
  
  I use Phabricator for a lot of things, and not just this.
  
  > Personally, I think the workboard set up by langcom at #language_codes 
 is sufficient. It takes 
some time to get used to it, but eventually I figured it out.
  
  I will try to look at it more frequently.
  
  >> ... And the language //happens// to be valid, but it's not great that it 
happens outside of process. It's my fault, too, but still. Let's all make our 
best efforts to respect it.
  >
  > Maybe you could explain what part of the process wasn't followed and where 
this is spelled out. Also, I think we should try to show more respect for users 
who formulate these requests.
  
  The code was added without Language committee approval. Or did I miss 
anything?
  
   People with weird ideas may use the presence of a language in Wikidata 
as "a foot in the door" and demand a whole Wikipedia.
  >>>
  >>> Do you have any Wikidata related samples for this or is it just an 
abstract argument? I understand that there might be problems you are facing 
with incubator, but we should be able to build Wikidata without affecting it.
  >>
  >> Cannot recall anything from Wikidata, but it happened in lots of other 
places, and it will happen with Wikidata sooner or later. "Why can it be there 
if it can't be here" is a very frequent complaint.
  >
  > If there were no cases in a decade, maybe we can look into it when it 
actually happens.
  
  The whole point is that we don't want it to happen in the first place.
  
  Look, I understand why it looks inefficient, and maybe even totally 
unnecessary in a place that calls itself a wiki, which is a site that anyone 
can edit and where you write first and get things checked later. But the 
definition of a language is a special layer that has extra sensitivity. 
Luckily, it's finite, and it's not needed so frequently that the inefficiency 
grinds everything to a halt.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 added a comment.


  In T284276#7160314 , 
@Amire80 wrote:
  
  > Emails //from Phabricator// are not very efficient.
  
  If you want to participate in a phabricator based process at some point you 
need to adopt its use. Personally, I think the workboard set up by langcom at 
#language_codes  is 
sufficient. It takes some time to get used to it, but eventually I figured it 
out. If you don't need the emails from phabricator, you could de-activate them.
  
   Maybe you can explain why https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T262922 took 
so long (you were pinged three times over a period of six months).
  >>
  >> The process was eventually followed and the code defined. No input was 
actually needed (as far as I can tell). The only problem I see was the delay.
  >
  > ... And the language //happens// to be valid, but it's not great that it 
happens outside of process. It's my fault, too, but still. Let's all make our 
best efforts to respect it.
  
  Maybe you could explain what part of the process wasn't followed and where 
this is spelled out. Also, I think we should try to show more respect for users 
who formulate these requests.
  
  >>> People with weird ideas may use the presence of a language in Wikidata as 
"a foot in the door" and demand a whole Wikipedia.
  >>
  >> Do you have any Wikidata related samples for this or is it just an 
abstract argument? I understand that there might be problems you are facing 
with incubator, but we should be able to build Wikidata without affecting it.
  >
  > Cannot recall anything from Wikidata, but it happened in lots of other 
places, and it will happen with Wikidata sooner or later. "Why can it be there 
if it can't be here" is a very frequent complaint.
  
  If there were no cases in a decade, maybe we can look into it when it 
actually happens.

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Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Amire80]

Amire80 added a comment.


  In T284276#7160307 , 
@Esc3300 wrote:
  
  > 
  
  I don't think any WMF process can rely on Telegram or other third party tools.
  
  Email is generic enough if you don't want Telegram, which is totally 
understandable.
  
  Emails //from Phabricator// are not very efficient.
  
  >>> Maybe you can explain why https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T262922 took 
so long (you were pinged three times over a period of six months).
  >>
  >> See above. Phabricator pings by themselves are not always perfectly 
efficient.
  >
  > The process was eventually followed and the code defined. No input was 
actually needed (as far as I can tell). The only problem I see was the delay.
  
  ... And the language //happens// to be valid, but it's not great that it 
happens outside of process. It's my fault, too, but still. Let's all make our 
best efforts to respect it.
  
  >> People with weird ideas may use the presence of a language in Wikidata as 
"a foot in the door" and demand a whole Wikipedia.
  >
  > Do you have any Wikidata related samples for this or is it just an abstract 
argument? I understand that there might be problems you are facing with 
incubator, but we should be able to build Wikidata without affecting it.
  
  Cannot recall anything from Wikidata, but it happened in lots of other 
places, and it will happen with Wikidata sooner or later. "Why can it be there 
if it can't be here" is a very frequent complaint.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 added a comment.


  > It certainly happens that things get missed, and it's not good. [..], I'm 
easy to find on email and Telegram, and a lot of people use this successfully.
  
  Personally, I'm happy with the current process as re-designed by the language 
committee not too long ago. The phabricator workboard should help you 
participate if you choose to do so. I don't think any WMF process can rely on 
Telegram or other third party tools. We should probably also avoid suggesting 
users to go through them.
  
  >> Maybe you can explain why https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T262922 took 
so long (you were pinged three times over a period of six months).
  >
  > See above. Phabricator pings by themselves are not always perfectly 
efficient.
  
  The process was eventually followed and the code defined. No input was 
actually needed (as far as I can tell). The only problem I see was the delay.
  
  > People with weird ideas may use the presence of a language in Wikidata as 
"a foot in the door" and demand a whole Wikipedia.
  
  Do you have any Wikidata related samples for this or is it just an abstract 
argument? I understand that there might be problems you are facing with 
incubator, but we should be able to build Wikidata without affecting it.
  
  >> Even a potential duplicate could eventually be merged [..]
  >
  > Have such merges ever happened? It's not as easy as you make it seem.
  
  On Wikidata, this is frequently done (one code replaced by another one). The 
main problem we currently have is that T284808 
 still hasn't been done (I created 
the ticket last week, but the problem was spelled out years ago).

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Amire80]

Amire80 added a comment.


  In T284276#7160260 , 
@Esc3300 wrote:
  
  > I suppose you refer to the timeframe for langco review of proposed new 
codes.
  
  Can you please stop writing "langco"? It's really weird. It's "Language 
committee", and if you really want to abbreviate, then it's Langcom. I haven't 
seen anyone else writing "langco".
  
  > I don't think it's entirely new. It is already used for language codes on 
Wikidata for some time, given the lack of response and sometimes entirely 
incomprehensible arguments we had during reviews. I think the situation has 
much improved lately (also thanks to you), but during my recent cleanup I still 
came across countless requests by contributors that were lost in phabricator 
without a clear reason.
  
  They are not countless. Phabricator has a finite number of tasks.
  
  It certainly happens that things get missed, and it's not good. I do Language 
committee work it as a volunteer. I also have a day job and two children. I 
receive a lot of Phabricator emails, which are very similar to each other, and 
it happens that I miss some. If you believe my attention is needed somewhere, 
I'm easy to find on email and Telegram, and a lot of people use this 
successfully.
  
  > Maybe you can explain why https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T262922 took so 
long (you were pinged three times over a period of six months).
  
  See above. Phabricator pings by themselves are not always perfectly efficient.
  
  >> The whole point of the Language committee is to prevent hoaxes, invalid 
languages, and duplicates.
  >
  > The question here is mainly about codes for Wikidata, these are generally 
trivial in nature and I don't think I have seen any of "hoaxes, invalid 
languages, and duplicates".
  
  No, they aren't trivial. People with weird ideas may use the presence of a 
language in Wikidata as "a foot in the door" and demand a whole Wikipedia.
  
  > Even a potential duplicate could eventually be merged and the people 
involved should be able to assess if the code is technically valid. This is 
somewhat different from the usual incubator business langco was formed for.
  
  Have such merges ever happened? It's not as easy as you make it seem.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 added a comment.


  Let's see what Amire80 suggests how we could improve the process as seen for 
"Alsatian".

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Mbch331]

Mbch331 added a comment.


  In T284276#7160260 , 
@Esc3300 wrote:
  
  > 
  
  
  
  > The consensus on Wikidata is that langco review isn't needed
  
  If @Lydia_Pintscher and her team don't agree with this, then I can make 
patches, but they won't approve them without LangCom approval. And without 
their approval, new codes can't be added.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 added a comment.


  I suppose you refer to the timeframe for langco review of proposed new codes. 
I don't think it's entirely new. It is already used for language codes on 
Wikidata for some time, given the lack of response and sometimes entirely 
incomprehensible arguments we had during reviews. I think the situation has 
much improved lately, but during my recent cleanup (also thanks to you), but I 
still came across countless requests by contributors that were lost in 
phabricator without a clear reason. Maybe you can explain why 
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T262922 took so long (you were ping three 
times over a period of six months).
  
  > The whole point of the Language committee is to prevent hoaxes, invalid 
languages, and duplicates.
  
  The question here is mainly about codes for Wikidata, these are generally 
trivial in nature and I don't think I have seen any of "hoaxes, invalid 
languages, and duplicates". Even a potential duplicate could eventually be 
merge. This is somewhat different from the usual incubator business langco was 
formed for,
  
  The consensus on Wikidata is that langco review isn't needed, but I think the 
review (if done in a timely and comprehensible manner) can still help formulate 
clearer proposals.

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Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Amire80]

Amire80 added a comment.


  This was already mentioned in T284151 
 as if it's the new rule, but it 
isn't. Please don't do this. It doesn't create a good impression.
  
  It comes back to the questions of what are the basic criteria of Language 
committee fulfilled. If these aren't defined, deadlines cannot be defined 
either.
  
  The whole point of the Language committee is to prevent hoaxes, invalid 
languages, and duplicates. We could perhaps codify our process in a way that 
allows quicker automatic approval of simple cases, but first it has to be 
codified, and only later it can actually be used.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Amire80]

Amire80 updated the task description.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 updated the task description.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 updated the task description.

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Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Mbch331]

Mbch331 added a comment.


  In T284276#7148337 , 
@Esc3300 wrote:
  
  > Well, test is after deployment (i.e. ensure it actually works). Ideally 
this is done by the person who requested the new code.
  
  There is also a test done by WMDE after the merge, but before the deployment.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 added a comment.


  Well, test is after deployment (i.e. ensure it actually works). Ideally this 
is done by the person who requested the new code.

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Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Mbch331]

Mbch331 added a comment.


  In T284276#7148299 , 
@Esc3300 wrote:
  
  >> Which steps can run parallel ?
  >
  > I think there are two possibilities:
  >
  > - steps that can't technically done in parallel
  > - steps that can technically be done in parallel
  >
  > For the later, there may be reasons to do them before or after some step. 
Obviously, it doesn't mean they have to be done in parallel.
  >
  > Current estimate for the entire process seems to be 5 weeks (if you are 
available). This seems a lot for a somewhat basic task even for the volunteer 
part of our organization.
  
  Usually the code review, test and deployment are all done in one week time 
and not in 3 weeks. Usually it's even in the same week the coding is done, so 
from coding to deployment it's usually 1 week time. And deployment doesn't wait 
for testing. Once a patch is merged, it will be deployed with the next 
deployment run (train) whether it's tested or not.

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Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 added a comment.


  > Which steps can run parallel ?
  
  I think there are two possibilities:
  
  - steps that can't technically done in parallel
  - steps that can technically be done in parallel
  
  For the later, there may be reasons to do them before or after some step. 
Obviously, it doesn't mean they have to be done in parallel.
  
  Current estimate for the entire process seems to be 5 weeks (if you are 
available). This seems a lot for a somewhat basic task even for the volunteer 
part of our organization.

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Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Mbch331]

Mbch331 added a comment.


  > Which steps can run parallel ?
  
  Actually none. It doesn't make sense to start coding before there's approval. 
If a ticket doesn't get approval by langcom, you've coded something that's 
never going to be used.
  You can't review a code change, without the coding first. Deployment is 
always done via the weekly code rollouts, these changes don't require immediate 
rollout. Code can't be rolled out without review, as the change hasn't been 
approved in Gerrit and won't be merged.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 added a comment.


  In T284276#7139740 , 
@Lydia_Pintscher wrote:
  
  > In the case of new language codes no coding is involved. It's just adding 
it to a list, which @Mbch331 does, and then someone from the dev-team just 
reviews, like any other change.
  
  Unless we change it, it still requires developer access to the code. I guess 
either step could be done by any user with that access. What's the plan if no 
volunteer is available to do the update? @Lydia_Pintscher

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 updated the task description.

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Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Lydia_Pintscher]

Lydia_Pintscher added a comment.


  In T284276#7138007 , 
@Esc3300 wrote:
  
  > I think primarily all maintenance, development, and code review is done by 
WMF/WMDE, at least per Jimmy Wales' plan, but maybe we should also consider the 
hypothesis where code review is done by a volunteer. @Lydia_Pintscher do you 
have an estimate for time needed for coding?
  
  (Not all coding is done and should be done by WMDE and the same applies for 
code review.)
  In the case of new language codes no coding is involved. It's just adding it 
to a list, which @Mbch331 does, and then someone from the dev-team just 
reviews, like any other change.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 added a comment.


  Sounds reasonable. The process seems more "predictable" since the two of you 
take care of it. I suppose we agree that Wikidata's needs are very different 
from Incubator's.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[jhsoby]

jhsoby added a comment.


  I agree this is a good idea, I have to admit that we (langcom) are often a 
bottleneck in this – more often than I would like. So what if we say something 
like, if nobody hears from Langcom within 2 weeks of a request being posted, a 
request can be assumed to be ok? What do you think, @Amire80? It would also be 
nice if we could bring some more langcom people into the loop on these tasks, 
so that it doesn't all rely on Amir and me – we are both fathers with full-time 
jobs, so many times these tasks unfortunately don't make it to the top of the 
pile on a given day.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 added a comment.


  @Amire80  @jhsoby what's your view on this?

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 added a comment.


  In T284276#7133853 , 
@Mbch331 wrote:
  
  > In T284276#7133623 , 
@Esc3300 wrote:
  >
  >> I noticed that the quickest step usually is Mbc331 .
  >>
  >> - As creation of these codes is a basic Wikidata maintenance step, I 
suppose we should also plan for when Mbc331 isn't available and it has to be 
done by WMDE.
  >
  > If I'm not around, any other volunteer coder can do this. These are quite 
simple changes.
  
  i think primarily, all maintenance, development, and code review is done by 
WMF/WMDE, at least per Jimmy Wales plan, but maybe we should also consider the 
hypothesis where code review is done by a volunteer. @Lydia_Pintscher do you 
have an estimate for time needed for coding?

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 updated the task description.

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Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 updated the task description.

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Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Mbch331]

Mbch331 updated the task description.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Mbch331]

Mbch331 added a comment.


  In T284276#7133623 , 
@Esc3300 wrote:
  
  > I noticed that the quickest step usually is Mbc331 .
  >
  > - As creation of these codes is a basic Wikidata maintenance step, I 
suppose we should also plan for when Mbc331 isn't available and it has to be 
done by WMDE.
  
  If I'm not around, any other volunteer coder can do this. These are quite 
simple changes.
  
  > - For code review, I added a few open ones I found into "Wikidata (consider 
for next sprint)". Is this the correct place or should be in "Wikidata (in 
progress)" ?
  
  If there is actually a patch, #Wikidata-Campsite-Iteration-∞ 
 is the 
correct tag and //peer review// is the correct status.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 updated the task description.

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Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 added a comment.


  I noticed that the quickest step usually is Mbc331 .
  
  - As creation of these codes is a basic Wikidata maintenance step, I suppose 
we should also plan for when Mbc331 isn't available and it has to be done by 
WMDE.
  
  - For code review, I added a few open ones I found into "Wikidata (consider 
for next sprint)". Is this the correct place or should be in "Wikidata (in 
progress)" ?

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 updated the task description.

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Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Lydia_Pintscher]

Lydia_Pintscher added a comment.


  Yeah as @Mbch331 said, no review needed from my side. If he submits the patch 
as usual ( ❤ ) it'll be reviewed in less than a week except for some very 
unusual circumstances. It then goes out within a week with the next deployment 
train unless it's halted for some exceptional reasons.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T284276

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: Lydia_Pintscher
Cc: Mahir256, Mbch331, Amire80, jhsoby, Lydia_Pintscher, Aklapper, Esc3300, 
Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, 
QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Nikki, Wikidata-bugs, 
aude
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Mbch331]

Mbch331 added a comment.


  Coding done by volunteer -> 1 week after langcom approval (should be shorter, 
but depends on when the volunteer (usually mee) has time). (Doesn't matter 
which of the three it is.)
  Coding done by WMDE: Don't know if they want to spend "expensive" paid 
resources when it can easily be done by a volunteer
  code review: usually done within 1 week after delivery of the code
  After code review the deployment is with the next train (code deployment)
  Lydia review nowadays not needed as long as there is langcom approval. 
@Amire80  / @jhsoby can comment on the langcom approval part.
  Maybe @Lydia_Pintscher has something to say about the WMDE side (if my 
assumptions are correct and maybe I missed something)

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T284276

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To: Mbch331
Cc: Mahir256, Mbch331, Amire80, jhsoby, Lydia_Pintscher, Aklapper, Esc3300, 
Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, 
QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Nikki, Wikidata-bugs, 
aude
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T284276: define standard turn-around times for language code additions for Wikidata

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 created this task.
Esc3300 added projects: Wikidata, Language codes.
Restricted Application added a subscriber: Aklapper.

TASK DESCRIPTION
  To better manage people's expectations, maybe we should try to come up with 
good estimates about how long it should take to add new language codes:
  
  Tasks to consider:
  
  - code for monolingual strings
  - code for lexemes
  - changes in labels for existing codes
  
  Assumptions:
  *request is complete with samples
  *simple code addition
  *basic criteria of langco fulfilled (whatever they may be)
  
  Steps to consider
  
  - langco review
  - Lydia review
  - coding done by volunteer
  - coding done by WMDE
  - code review by WMDE
  
  Current ranges vary from 1 week to x months even for trivial additions

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T284276

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: Esc3300
Cc: Mahir256, Mbch331, Amire80, jhsoby, Lydia_Pintscher, Aklapper, Esc3300, 
Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, 
QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Nikki, Wikidata-bugs, 
aude
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