Re: [Wikidata-l] Is an ecosystem of Wikidatas possible?
Robert and Jane, Robert, great ... To further support an ecosystem of Wikidatas, I hope we might develop World University and School in Wikidata together. How might we best make this happen? (What might be the very first steps to begin moving from the current Wikia to Wikidata, if this is possible?) Jane, is this the Alex Peek you're referring to - https://plus.google.com/101478728961573967739/posts ? And concerning libraries, museums, as well as a WUaS Music School (all instruments in all languages, each a wiki, subject page to begin), Jane, WUaS plans, again in all 7,105+ languages and 204+ countries, a kind of ecosystem of databases, by facilitating the wiki-aggregation and wiki-curation (and perhaps eventually wiki-development in virtual worlds with geo-coordinates) all libraries and museums with significant, online, open, free content - Library Resources - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Library_Resources Museums - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Museums World University Music School - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/World_University_Music_School In terms of a complementary to Wikicommons' ecosystem of databases, here's a helpful overview about all-languages' and all-countries' World University and School's nine main areas, from the following WUaS blog entry - Courses http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Courses Subjects http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Subjects Languages http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Languages (All) Nation States http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Nation_States%20 (All) You at WUaS http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/You_at_World_University Research http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Research Educational Softwarehttp://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Educational_Software Library Resources http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Library_Resources Museums http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Museums Hardware Resource Possibilities http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Hardware_Resource_Possibilities Three, main, I.T. foci at World University School, Music School, Universal Translator, Virtual Earth as 'classroom'- http://worlduniversityandschool.blogspot.com/2012/02/three-main-it-foci-at-world-university.html ... All of these 9 areas are resources for WUaS's free, online, C.C. MIT OCW-centric (and C.C. Yale OYC), C.C. WUaS university degrees accrediting in many languages and countries, beginning with English and then in the United Nations' languages, and then others. (WUaS recently received the 'green light' in the state of California to begin the accreditation process! - which is great news for free, C.C., online, MIT OCW-centric university degrees in many countries and languages). Cheers, Scott On Sun, Jun 23, 2013 at 2:12 AM, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote: Thomas, Wiki Commons has only about 17 million files, and given the explosive growth of WikiData, this would be doable. I suggest doing it now rather than later. David, thanks for that clarification - I get what you mean now and I support your vision. I disagreed BTW with the first Signpost op-ed piece of last week and agree more with Jarekt's answers to that discussion. I didn't even bother responding because my feeling after reading it was they have no clue. Copyright issues faced by Commons admins are incredibly complex and not to be treated lightly. It's ridiculous to think that admins on the English Wikipedia could just step in and become admins on Commons (note: I am not an admin on any project). I also agree however with Johnbod's comment on that same Signpost page that Google images is better at locating Commons files in searches because my search experience on Commons is terrible. The whole porno-image problem discussed in that article will of course not be addressed by creating WikiData items for each file, but I agree that it would make that discussion more visible (along with everything else becoming more visible). Making them visible will help indirectly of course. Not everyone feels up to contributing to deletion discussions on Commons (personally I would rather go have a tooth pulled), but making those discussions available to more readers should help attract those who do. Scott, you need to talk to Alex Peek on another thread about his vision of economic data - it looks like you two could do something interesting together. Rereading my last post I see I left off a few Commons links. My point about interconnecting files on commons is as follows. [1] is an engraving of Hoogstraten and is a derivative of [2] but shows an example of Hoogstraten's work, which is [5]. Both [3] and [4] are later engravings from artist dictionaries which made use of [2]. Showing such relationships helps to build understanding for art provenance, but also for other art historical subjects, such as the historiography of art criticism. Getting these relationships outside of Commons could be done using an F namespace in WikiData I think.
Re: [Wikidata-l] Is an ecosystem of Wikidatas possible?
Thomas, Wiki Commons has only about 17 million files, and given the explosive growth of WikiData, this would be doable. I suggest doing it now rather than later. David, thanks for that clarification - I get what you mean now and I support your vision. I disagreed BTW with the first Signpost op-ed piece of last week and agree more with Jarekt's answers to that discussion. I didn't even bother responding because my feeling after reading it was they have no clue. Copyright issues faced by Commons admins are incredibly complex and not to be treated lightly. It's ridiculous to think that admins on the English Wikipedia could just step in and become admins on Commons (note: I am not an admin on any project). I also agree however with Johnbod's comment on that same Signpost page that Google images is better at locating Commons files in searches because my search experience on Commons is terrible. The whole porno-image problem discussed in that article will of course not be addressed by creating WikiData items for each file, but I agree that it would make that discussion more visible (along with everything else becoming more visible). Making them visible will help indirectly of course. Not everyone feels up to contributing to deletion discussions on Commons (personally I would rather go have a tooth pulled), but making those discussions available to more readers should help attract those who do. Scott, you need to talk to Alex Peek on another thread about his vision of economic data - it looks like you two could do something interesting together. Rereading my last post I see I left off a few Commons links. My point about interconnecting files on commons is as follows. [1] is an engraving of Hoogstraten and is a derivative of [2] but shows an example of Hoogstraten's work, which is [5]. Both [3] and [4] are later engravings from artist dictionaries which made use of [2]. Showing such relationships helps to build understanding for art provenance, but also for other art historical subjects, such as the historiography of art criticism. Getting these relationships outside of Commons could be done using an F namespace in WikiData I think. That would be a fantastic improvement to the Commons category system (which is still better than nothing). [1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dirk_van_hoogstraten_by_arnold_houbraken.JPG [2] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Schouburg_I_Plate_I_Leonard_Bramer_-_Dirk_van_Hoogstraten_-_Salomon_de_Bray.jpg [3] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:JCWeyerman_-_VI_plate_I_-_Leonard_Bramer_-_Dirk_van_Hoogstraten_-_Salomon_de_Bray.jpg [4] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jean-Baptiste_Deschamps_-_Dirck_ou_Thierry_van_Hoogstraeten_p_411.gif [5] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dirk_van_hoogstraten_-_maria_met_kind_en_st_anna.jpg 2013/6/23, Scott MacLeod worlduniversityandsch...@gmail.com: Dear David, Denny and Wikidatans, Thanks for this email thread. I'd like to float a proposal for this ecosystem of Wikidatas vis-a-vis World University and School, (which is like Wikipedia with MIT OCW), with our plans for a wiki school or online, Creative Commons' licensed university (with free, online, C.C., MIT-centric, university degrees planned) in all 7,105+ languages and 204+ countries. C.C. WUaS hopes to engage Wikidata, as well. I've begun a link on the WUaS, wiki, Subjects' page called Wikidata databases and ecosystem, - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Subjects- which can easily become an extensible, wiki, subject page itself (using a modified version of Wikidata with the WUaS SUBJECT TEMPLATE - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/SUBJECT_TEMPLATE) in all languages and countries, to link all the (small number of) Wikidatas that emerge. (Check out this extensible, WUaS, wiki SUBJECT TEMPLATE, since it has many of the possible categories mentioned above in this email thread). Here is the beginning, Languages' wiki page at WUaS - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Languages - eventually to link all languages, each as a school or university. And here is the beginning Nation States' wiki page at WUaS - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Nation_States - eventually to link all nation states, each as a school or university. The wiki, extensible, WUaS all-languages' (7,105 per Ethnologue) and all-nation states' (204 per The Olympics) approach has the merit of potentially including all emergent Wikidatas in all languages (for an universal translator - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/WUaS_Universal_Translator), and in all nation states for legal questions, in a way that fully supports the amazing interlingual Wikidata (which is planned for Wikipedia's 285 languages +), and also, - since many/most of these Wikidatas may be data about generative shared knowledge - will therefore fit well with World University and School which is for open, free, wiki, people-to-people teaching and learning. Best regards, Scott
Re: [Wikidata-l] Is an ecosystem of Wikidatas possible?
This is pretty substantial work, which is both developmentally difficult and will require a lot of effort to maintain. I wouldn't expect that the work will be inexpensive either. -Robert _ From: Scott MacLeod [mailto:worlduniversityandsch...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, June 22, 2013 8:35 PM To: Discussion list for the Wikidata project. Subject: Re: [Wikidata-l] Is an ecosystem of Wikidatas possible? Dear David, Denny and Wikidatans,� Thanks for this email thread.� I'd like to float a proposal for this ecosystem of Wikidatas vis-a-vis World University and School, (which is like Wikipedia with MIT OCW), with our plans for a wiki school or online, Creative Commons' licensed university (with free, online, C.C., MIT-centric, university degrees planned) in all 7,105+ languages and 204+ countries. C.C. WUaS hopes to engage Wikidata, as well.� I've begun a link on the WUaS, wiki, Subjects' page called Wikidata databases and ecosystem, - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Subjects - which can easily become an extensible, wiki, subject page itself (using a modified version of Wikidata with the WUaS SUBJECT TEMPLATE - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/SUBJECT_TEMPLATE) in all languages and countries, to link all the (small number of) Wikidatas that emerge. (Check out this extensible, WUaS, wiki SUBJECT TEMPLATE, since it has many of the possible categories mentioned above in this email thread).� Here is the beginning, Languages' wiki page at WUaS - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Languages - eventually to link all languages, each as a school or university.� And here is the beginning Nation States' wiki page at WUaS - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Nation_States - eventually to link all nation states, each as a school or university.� The wiki, extensible, WUaS all-languages' (7,105 per Ethnologue) and all-nation states' (204 per The Olympics) approach has the merit of potentially including all emergent Wikidatas in all languages (for an universal translator - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/WUaS_Universal_Translator), and in all nation states for legal questions, in a way that fully supports the amazing interlingual Wikidata (which is planned for Wikipedia's 285 languages +), and also, - since many/most of these Wikidatas may be data about generative shared knowledge - will therefore fit well with World University and School which is for open, free, wiki, people-to-people teaching and learning.� Best regards,� Scott On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 6:42 AM, David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote: [...] do you think there is a need for this file to have its own F status in WikiData? Yes. The reason to have file entities is mainly to have a platform that can store semantic descriptions of a file. For text searches in classical terms it doesn't matter much, but to search things like: - portrait engravings by artists born in Dordrecht - depictions of Dutch poets born between 1600 and 1700 For these kind of searches, the only possible way to return relevant results is to store the information a semantic way as Wikidata does. As Thomas pointed out, the task to transition to the new method looks somewhat daunting, luckily here there is not much trouble using bots to automate the task filling out the properties of the 17M files. The case of image promotion I think it is a different issue that would require some tagging (maybe best depiction of) or a simple voting system (like in youtube, reddit, etc). It is also important to note that the old issue of sexual content in Commons [1] has gained *a lot* of traction lately since the last three op-ed's questioning/defending its suistainability [2] [3]. Basically there is a need that the searches show what you are looking for and not some other random content. The urgency to present a solution is very high at the moment, a matter of weeks before starting organizing WikiLoveMonuments with a cleaned reputation, so I hope that Wikidata can present a proposal soon that I am sure will be better than this other proposal [4] Cheers, Micru [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2010-05-10/Commons_deletions [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2013-06-12/Op-ed [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2013-06-19/Op-ed [4] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Image_information ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l -- Scott MacLeod Founder President http://scottmacleod.com --� World University and School (like Wikipedia with MIT OpenCourseWare) http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Subjects World University and School is a 501 (c) (3) tax-exempt, educational organization.� P.O. Box 442, �� (86 Ridgecrest
Re: [Wikidata-l] Is an ecosystem of Wikidatas possible?
I think it is not about a file being or not the best to reprensent something, it is about can commons gain something by being in wikidata. And I think it is the case : wikidata will give very powerful tools, with properties to classify and describe files, and queries to find which files matches some criteria which could help users to find what they want. Of course the amount of work to describe precisely each file is gigantic, so this system will not be available at his full potential, but we can be sure that we can build something stricty better that the current category system with a very limited cost since wikidata is already there and is planned to interract with commons. And the availability of wikidata items will for example a very fine graine matching of some schéma with their topic, so we can for example find every illustration used for a mathematical topic, whatever it is about a very specific theorem, work can be tedious to do with the current system as the classification is higher grained. 2013/6/22 Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com I was thinking about items vs properties and Commons. I am not sure a F entity is necessary. In theory, each file on Commons can be linked to another one, and each item on WikiData can be linked to another one, but those links do not necessarily need to interconnect with Commons. If a Commons file is not the best promoted image of a certain WikiData item, then in my mind it does not need to be in WikiData. Here is an example of what I mean: This is an image of an engraving of Dirk van Hoogstraten: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dirk_van_hoogstraten_by_arnold_houbraken.JPG He has a WikiData (person) item that could link to that image here: http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5280895 The image file is derived from this file: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Schouburg_I_Plate_I_Leonard_Bramer_-_Dirk_van_Hoogstraten_-_Salomon_de_Bray.jpg which is a page from a 3-volume book about artists that has a WikiData (book) item (that could use the titlepage of the first volume as linked image). The picture of Hoogstraten on that page was also used later by another engraver in a later book about artists: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Schouburg_I_Plate_I_Leonard_Bramer_-_Dirk_van_Hoogstraten_-_Salomon_de_Bray.jpg This second book also has a Wikidata (book) item, and the authors of both books have WikiData (person) items, and so do the engravers of the original engravings. If the original drawing of Dirk Hoogstraten ever comes to light, then that image could be promoted to best image of Dirk Hoogstraten, and this one can remain on commons, but does not need to be linked to WikiData, or do you think there is a need for this file to have its own F status in WikiData? 2013/6/21, David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com: On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Denny Vrandečić denny.vrande...@wikimedia.de wrote: I agree that the different projects have different requirements. But I think we should strive for a small number of Wikidatas - you could have made the same argument for Commons, after all. The two projects that might need it most are Wikivoyage (hotel/restaurant listings) and Wikiquote (semantic quotes), though in the end they could be included in Wikidata with different entity types. Wikisource is aligned with the existence of source items in Wikidata, so other than having a S namespace for sources (or not) and adapting the extension to work in Wikisource, there is not much need of development from the Wikidata side. See more here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wikisource Right now, I think there is a need for Commons to have better support for data - we are working on a proposal text for that - and Wiktionary - as it is really a different system - needs some special treatments - we have just send a proposal text for that. The Wiktionary proposal is a great start. I'm excited about the Commons proposal. It would be fabulous to have an F entity type for files :) (You can always go further and say but it would be better if we supported Wikibooks with structured data about the books and its chapters etc., but at some point you need to weigh implementation effort and cost and the expected benefit) Wikibooks (user-generated text-books) is a special case, a bit different from Wikisource (digital versions of existing sources). However both can be treated in a similar way. I agree that the potential benefit of linking chapters wouldn't be that high. Cheers, Micru ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Is an ecosystem of Wikidatas possible?
On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote: [...] do you think there is a need for this file to have its own F status in WikiData? Yes. The reason to have file entities is mainly to have a platform that can store semantic descriptions of a file. For text searches in classical terms it doesn't matter much, but to search things like: - portrait engravings by artists born in Dordrecht - depictions of Dutch poets born between 1600 and 1700 For these kind of searches, the only possible way to return relevant results is to store the information a semantic way as Wikidata does. As Thomas pointed out, the task to transition to the new method looks somewhat daunting, luckily here there is not much trouble using bots to automate the task filling out the properties of the 17M files. The case of image promotion I think it is a different issue that would require some tagging (maybe best depiction of) or a simple voting system (like in youtube, reddit, etc). It is also important to note that the old issue of sexual content in Commons [1] has gained *a lot* of traction lately since the last three op-ed's questioning/defending its suistainability [2] [3]. Basically there is a need that the searches show what you are looking for and not some other random content. The urgency to present a solution is very high at the moment, a matter of weeks before starting organizing WikiLoveMonuments with a cleaned reputation, so I hope that Wikidata can present a proposal soon that I am sure will be better than this other proposal [4] Cheers, Micru [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2010-05-10/Commons_deletions [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2013-06-12/Op-ed [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2013-06-19/Op-ed [4] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Image_information ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Is an ecosystem of Wikidatas possible?
Dear David, Denny and Wikidatans, Thanks for this email thread. I'd like to float a proposal for this ecosystem of Wikidatas vis-a-vis World University and School, (which is like Wikipedia with MIT OCW), with our plans for a wiki school or online, Creative Commons' licensed university (with free, online, C.C., MIT-centric, university degrees planned) in all 7,105+ languages and 204+ countries. C.C. WUaS hopes to engage Wikidata, as well. I've begun a link on the WUaS, wiki, Subjects' page called Wikidata databases and ecosystem, - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Subjects- which can easily become an extensible, wiki, subject page itself (using a modified version of Wikidata with the WUaS SUBJECT TEMPLATE - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/SUBJECT_TEMPLATE) in all languages and countries, to link all the (small number of) Wikidatas that emerge. (Check out this extensible, WUaS, wiki SUBJECT TEMPLATE, since it has many of the possible categories mentioned above in this email thread). Here is the beginning, Languages' wiki page at WUaS - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Languages - eventually to link all languages, each as a school or university. And here is the beginning Nation States' wiki page at WUaS - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Nation_States - eventually to link all nation states, each as a school or university. The wiki, extensible, WUaS all-languages' (7,105 per Ethnologue) and all-nation states' (204 per The Olympics) approach has the merit of potentially including all emergent Wikidatas in all languages (for an universal translator - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/WUaS_Universal_Translator), and in all nation states for legal questions, in a way that fully supports the amazing interlingual Wikidata (which is planned for Wikipedia's 285 languages +), and also, - since many/most of these Wikidatas may be data about generative shared knowledge - will therefore fit well with World University and School which is for open, free, wiki, people-to-people teaching and learning. Best regards, Scott On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 6:42 AM, David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote: [...] do you think there is a need for this file to have its own F status in WikiData? Yes. The reason to have file entities is mainly to have a platform that can store semantic descriptions of a file. For text searches in classical terms it doesn't matter much, but to search things like: - portrait engravings by artists born in Dordrecht - depictions of Dutch poets born between 1600 and 1700 For these kind of searches, the only possible way to return relevant results is to store the information a semantic way as Wikidata does. As Thomas pointed out, the task to transition to the new method looks somewhat daunting, luckily here there is not much trouble using bots to automate the task filling out the properties of the 17M files. The case of image promotion I think it is a different issue that would require some tagging (maybe best depiction of) or a simple voting system (like in youtube, reddit, etc). It is also important to note that the old issue of sexual content in Commons [1] has gained *a lot* of traction lately since the last three op-ed's questioning/defending its suistainability [2] [3]. Basically there is a need that the searches show what you are looking for and not some other random content. The urgency to present a solution is very high at the moment, a matter of weeks before starting organizing WikiLoveMonuments with a cleaned reputation, so I hope that Wikidata can present a proposal soon that I am sure will be better than this other proposal [4] Cheers, Micru [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2010-05-10/Commons_deletions [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2013-06-12/Op-ed [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2013-06-19/Op-ed [4] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Image_information ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l -- Scott MacLeod Founder President http://scottmacleod.com -- World University and School (like Wikipedia with MIT OpenCourseWare) http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Subjects World University and School is a 501 (c) (3) tax-exempt, educational organization. P.O. Box 442, (86 Ridgecrest Road), Canyon, CA 94516 415 480 4577 worldunivand...@scottmacleod.com worlduniversityandsch...@gmail.com Skype: scottm100 Google + main, WUaS page: https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/108179352492243955816/108179352492243955816/posts Please contribute, and invite friends to contribute, tax deductibly, via PayPal and credit card: http://scottmacleod.com/worlduniversityandschool.htm. World University and School is sending you this because of
Re: [Wikidata-l] Is an ecosystem of Wikidatas possible?
I was thinking about items vs properties and Commons. I am not sure a F entity is necessary. In theory, each file on Commons can be linked to another one, and each item on WikiData can be linked to another one, but those links do not necessarily need to interconnect with Commons. If a Commons file is not the best promoted image of a certain WikiData item, then in my mind it does not need to be in WikiData. Here is an example of what I mean: This is an image of an engraving of Dirk van Hoogstraten: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dirk_van_hoogstraten_by_arnold_houbraken.JPG He has a WikiData (person) item that could link to that image here: http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5280895 The image file is derived from this file: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Schouburg_I_Plate_I_Leonard_Bramer_-_Dirk_van_Hoogstraten_-_Salomon_de_Bray.jpg which is a page from a 3-volume book about artists that has a WikiData (book) item (that could use the titlepage of the first volume as linked image). The picture of Hoogstraten on that page was also used later by another engraver in a later book about artists: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Schouburg_I_Plate_I_Leonard_Bramer_-_Dirk_van_Hoogstraten_-_Salomon_de_Bray.jpg This second book also has a Wikidata (book) item, and the authors of both books have WikiData (person) items, and so do the engravers of the original engravings. If the original drawing of Dirk Hoogstraten ever comes to light, then that image could be promoted to best image of Dirk Hoogstraten, and this one can remain on commons, but does not need to be linked to WikiData, or do you think there is a need for this file to have its own F status in WikiData? 2013/6/21, David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com: On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Denny Vrandečić denny.vrande...@wikimedia.de wrote: I agree that the different projects have different requirements. But I think we should strive for a small number of Wikidatas - you could have made the same argument for Commons, after all. The two projects that might need it most are Wikivoyage (hotel/restaurant listings) and Wikiquote (semantic quotes), though in the end they could be included in Wikidata with different entity types. Wikisource is aligned with the existence of source items in Wikidata, so other than having a S namespace for sources (or not) and adapting the extension to work in Wikisource, there is not much need of development from the Wikidata side. See more here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wikisource Right now, I think there is a need for Commons to have better support for data - we are working on a proposal text for that - and Wiktionary - as it is really a different system - needs some special treatments - we have just send a proposal text for that. The Wiktionary proposal is a great start. I'm excited about the Commons proposal. It would be fabulous to have an F entity type for files :) (You can always go further and say but it would be better if we supported Wikibooks with structured data about the books and its chapters etc., but at some point you need to weigh implementation effort and cost and the expected benefit) Wikibooks (user-generated text-books) is a special case, a bit different from Wikisource (digital versions of existing sources). However both can be treated in a similar way. I agree that the potential benefit of linking chapters wouldn't be that high. Cheers, Micru ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Is an ecosystem of Wikidatas possible?
You probably mean Linked Data? On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 9:41 PM, David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com wrote: While on the Hackathon I had the opportunity to talk with some people from sister projects about how they view Wikidata and the relationship it should have to sister projects. Probably you are already familiar with the views because they have been presented already several times. The hopes are high, in my opinion too high, about what can be accomplished when Wikidata is deployed to sister projects. There are conflicting needs about what belongs into Wikidata and what sister projects need, and that divide it is far greater to be overcome than just by installing the extension. In fact, I think there is a confusion between the need for Wikidata and the need for structured data. True that Wikidata embodies that technology, but I don't think all problems can be approached by the same centralized tool. At least not from the social side of it. Wikiquote could have one item for each quote, or Wikivoyage an item for each bar, hostel, restaurant, etc..., and the question will always be: are they relevant enough to be created in Wikidata? Considering that Wikidata was initially thought for Wikipedia, that scope wouldn't allow those uses. However, the structured data needs could be covered in other ways. It doesn't need to be a big wikidata addressing it all. It could well be a central Wikidata addressing common issues (like author data, population data, etc), plus other Wikidata installs on each sister project that requires it. For instance there could be a data.wikiquote.org, a data.wikivoyage.org, etc that would cater for the needs of each community, that I predict will increase as soon as the benefits become clear, and of course linked to the central Wikidata whenever needed. Even Commons could be wikidatized with each file becoming an item and having different labels representing the file name depending on the language version being accessed. Could be this the right direction to go? Cheers, Micru ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Is an ecosystem of Wikidatas possible?
I don't see each file on Commons having its own WikiData item, but I do think each subject of files should have their own item (and some, but not all of them, may also have their own wikipedia pages). These files on Commons could make use of properties on wikidata like is designed by, is a copy of, is an example of, is the best image of or something like that. When the work is a sculpture or a garden and there are many photos, it would be nice to promote one of them to best choice image for some works, this way you can easily replace photos across many Wikipedia's for some of the great pictures coming in with efforts like Wiki Loves Monuments. Similarly, I don't think each poem or each book should have its own WikiData item, but I think each first edition should have its own item, and all other editions should be able to link to it, regardless of translated versions and so on. I see WikiSource and WikiBooks as the same in this respect. 2013/6/20, Martynas Jusevičius marty...@graphity.org: You probably mean Linked Data? On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 9:41 PM, David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com wrote: While on the Hackathon I had the opportunity to talk with some people from sister projects about how they view Wikidata and the relationship it should have to sister projects. Probably you are already familiar with the views because they have been presented already several times. The hopes are high, in my opinion too high, about what can be accomplished when Wikidata is deployed to sister projects. There are conflicting needs about what belongs into Wikidata and what sister projects need, and that divide it is far greater to be overcome than just by installing the extension. In fact, I think there is a confusion between the need for Wikidata and the need for structured data. True that Wikidata embodies that technology, but I don't think all problems can be approached by the same centralized tool. At least not from the social side of it. Wikiquote could have one item for each quote, or Wikivoyage an item for each bar, hostel, restaurant, etc..., and the question will always be: are they relevant enough to be created in Wikidata? Considering that Wikidata was initially thought for Wikipedia, that scope wouldn't allow those uses. However, the structured data needs could be covered in other ways. It doesn't need to be a big wikidata addressing it all. It could well be a central Wikidata addressing common issues (like author data, population data, etc), plus other Wikidata installs on each sister project that requires it. For instance there could be a data.wikiquote.org, a data.wikivoyage.org, etc that would cater for the needs of each community, that I predict will increase as soon as the benefits become clear, and of course linked to the central Wikidata whenever needed. Even Commons could be wikidatized with each file becoming an item and having different labels representing the file name depending on the language version being accessed. Could be this the right direction to go? Cheers, Micru ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Is an ecosystem of Wikidatas possible?
Hello GerardM, Interwikis between categories and disambiguation pages serve a purpose, they form a navigational structure to enable people to find information. Certainly navigational pages make information also reachable. I use them, many other users use the interwikilinks, and so on. Romaine --- On Tue, 6/11/13, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: From: Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikidata-l] Is an ecosystem of Wikidatas possible? To: Discussion list for the Wikidata project. wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Tuesday, June 11, 2013, 8:10 PM Hoi, The initial application for Wikidata is to replace the interwiki links of Wikipedia. Arguably many of the interwiki links do not serve a purpose. In my opinion there is no need for interwiki linking disambiguation pages or categories. I fail to see the value in these. Having links to Wikivoyage or Wikibooks or Wikisource can have an application. Making use of Wikidata to add tags to Commons is an application that would REALLY help Commons gain usability. Given that Wikidata is NOT Wikipedia, the requirements of notability are not necessarily requirements that are relevant in the Wikidata context. Thanks, GerardM On 11 June 2013 20:41, David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com wrote: While on the Hackathon I had the opportunity to talk with some people from sister projects about how they view Wikidata and the relationship it should have to sister projects. Probably you are already familiar with the views because they have been presented already several times. The hopes are high, in my opinion too high, about what can be accomplished when Wikidata is deployed to sister projects. There are conflicting needs about what belongs into Wikidata and what sister projects need, and that divide it is far greater to be overcome than just by installing the extension. In fact, I think there is a confusion between the need for Wikidata and the need for structured data. True that Wikidata embodies that technology, but I don't think all problems can be approached by the same centralized tool. At least not from the social side of it. Wikiquote could have one item for each quote, or Wikivoyage an item for each bar, hostel, restaurant, etc..., and the question will always be: are they relevant enough to be created in Wikidata? Considering that Wikidata was initially thought for Wikipedia, that scope wouldn't allow those uses. However, the structured data needs could be covered in other ways. It doesn't need to be a big wikidata addressing it all. It could well be a central Wikidata addressing common issues (like author data, population data, etc), plus other Wikidata installs on each sister project that requires it. For instance there could be a data.wikiquote.org, a data.wikivoyage.org, etc that would cater for the needs of each community, that I predict will increase as soon as the benefits become clear, and of course linked to the central Wikidata whenever needed. Even Commons could be wikidatized with each file becoming an item and having different labels representing the file name depending on the language version being accessed. Could be this the right direction to go? Cheers, Micru ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
