.
The question is how we could somehow modify this rigid approach. What
does it take to modify something that ingrained into policy?
Fred Bauder
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the popup I suggest. A new editor,
could never, of course. These templates are simple but there are lots of
them, often duplicating each other.
Fred Bauder
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facto policy.
Appropriate, although that language has been there probably since Larry
Sanger.
Fred Bauder
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go on and on.
Essentially all it means is that if extremely offensive or inappropriate
material has been widely published we can't keep it out of Wikipedia.
Fred Bauder
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then
it
might have a place on Wikipedia. It's usually not all that hard.
-Steph
Extensive information on the development of a concept is inappropriate in
a dictionary. For example the word robot.
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, that a
Wikipedia article would deviate from what is in textbooks. That is what
we do.
Fred
User Fred Bauder
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Jacob De Wolff
jfdwo...@doctors.org.uk wrote:
Alex Bateman and Darren Logan have written in this week's
Nature, suggesting that scientists contribute
On 11 December 2010 17:36, Tony Sidaway tonysida...@gmail.com wrote:
I know everybody is tired of hearing me bang on about this, but the
whole Featured article edifice has always seemed dubious to me. It
seems to concentrate our limited resources on a tiny number of
articles, and the emphasis
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20101207006158/en/VMS-Sponsoring-Wikipedia-Marketing-Webinar
The program, focusing on the dos and donts of getting information about
your company on the Wikipedia site, will include insight from Richard
Laermer and Sharon Nieuwenhuis, two Wikipedia
http://www.inc.com/managing/articles/201001/wikipedia.html
'Wikipedia is a complex culture, and sometimes it can feel like the free
encyclopedia everyone can edit -- except me, acknowledges Jay Walsh, a
spokesperson for the Wikimedia Foundation, the nonprofit organization
that oversees
with paid editing - once money or professional reputation get
involved, things turn a lot more ugly when something does not go right,
and that's when the threats start flying.
-MuZemike
On 12/7/2010 10:31 AM, Fred Bauder wrote:
http://www.inc.com/managing/articles/201001/wikipedia.html
in any way, or getting any thing from
them?
Fred
User: Fred Bauder
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To Magnus' suggestion -- they would have no real motivation to divert
some of their margin to Wikipedia, would they? I'm not sure
attributing the content to Wikipedia, and using Wikimedia marks for
that purpose, would fall far enough afoul of trademark law to give the
WMF a lot of leverage.
A Kindle costs money? Yes.
Thus it is sold for money? Yes.
Actually no. The download is free.
Fred
User: Fred Bauder
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where
root beer fails?
Fred Bauder
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be on both lists.
Fred Bauder
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.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan%C4%8Di%C4%87%27s_Peak
thanks,
mike
You are, of course, correct, assuming the mountain has a commonly used
name in the Albanian language, whether it is on the border or not.
Fred Bauder
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On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
wrote:
Here is another prime example of how the user is misled when using the
english wikipedia.
lets say you are looking for Maja Pançiq, you wont find the article,
because someone commented out the name in the article
#invite_to_discuss_Kosovo_geographic_names
At some point this will all end in arbitration, but don't try to force
it. Keep on talking to him. And don't edit war. Address editors directly,
not through edit comments in the course of edit warring.
Fred Bauder
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to do,
can I get some support for this idea?
thanks,
mike
I'd focus on places in Kososo, although Belgrade, doubtless, has an
Albanian name which is in use. The article should probably include both
names and be a guide to the reader with respect to alternative
Serbian-Albanian place names.
Fred
to get everyone involved
so that guidelines can be developed to deal with this matters.
Fred Bauder
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On 05/11/2010 22:52, Carcharoth wrote:
On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Fred Bauderfredb...@fairpoint.net
wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/magazine/07FOB-medium-t.html
That has to be the first time I've seen WP:OWN analysed in a newspaper
article!
When it says no author is tempted
Finally, one fan:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/magazine/07FOB-medium-t.html
Fred
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A list has been prepared by Alastair Plumb of Asylum:
http://www.asylum.co.uk/2010/10/21/the-12-most-amazing-and-useless-wikipedia-pages-in-the-world/
Fred
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On 17 October 2010 06:22, David Goodman dgoodma...@gmail.com wrote:
We're an educational institution in two senses: we write educational
material forv the world in general, and we educate each other.
I strongly suggest you start a Wikimedia-related blog and crosspost
posts like this to it,
Are you speaking of the article on the German Wikipedia?
Fred
Ryan, All,
(Regarding #51, [[Peter Singer]])
Actually, I haven't looked at this article in awhile since I quit
editing Wikipedia. It looks like the balance is quite good, as far as
your philosophy articles go. If anything,
On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Guettarda guetta...@gmail.com wrote:
I think that Wikipedia is big enough that we have room for all points
of view by drilling down far enough. We are not going to state in our
main article that the 9/11 attacks were a conspiracy organised by the
US
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 9:47 PM, Guettarda guetta...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 3:26 PM, George Herbert
george.herb...@gmail.comwrote:
That's not neutral. That's not representing reality. That's outright
conservatives are so batshit we don't care about them bias.
And the
Focus on the task is the work involved. It is only with great difficulty
that a group can develop the skill necessary to deal successfully with
the dynamics inherent in group work and get something done.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfred_Bion#Basic_assumptions and his
book Experiences in
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010, Charles Matthews wrote:
#167 is the allegation that we fail to understand what the Tea Party
guys are all about. AFAIK we don't claim to understand anything much,
just to compile articles from sources.
I think that as a serious response, this is disingenuous. People
complains bitterly.
Fred Bauder
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On 13 October 2010 14:45, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote:
Is there anything on this list:
http://www.conservapedia.com/Examples_of_Bias_in_Wikipedia
which is a legitimate complaint that we can do something about?
Every word. Then, when we've gone through that list, we can fix our
So we got Conservapedia and some other conservative website accusing
Wikipedia of having a liberal bias. What else is new, or what else are
we to expect?
-MuZemike
Well, is there anything at all to it, or is it just bull?
Fred
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On 13/10/2010 14:45, Fred Bauder wrote:
Is there anything on this list:
http://www.conservapedia.com/Examples_of_Bias_in_Wikipedia
which is a legitimate complaint that we can do something about?
I don't know. One of them (#67) may be about you, but it's kind of hard
to tell
Doe is reminded to be consistently courteous
regardless of circumstance.
If you feel the rough and tumble of the agora is too much; well,
sometimes it is.
Fred Bauder
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 11:05 PM, K. Peachey p858sn...@yahoo.com.au
wrote:
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:56 AM, John Doe
The problem remains that and individual subscription of $295 a year
stinks, to say nothing of $995.00 for a printed copy. Basically, only
institutions or major publishers would find a subscription worthwhile and
those are higher yet.
Essentially it is a paradigm that does not deliver the goods.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/magazine/22FOB-medium-t.html
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On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 5:47 AM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 1:59 AM, Carcharoth
carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote:
...
Oh wait, I found a page here:
http://www.fbi.gov/priorities/priorities.htm
That would be a better source for images, but the images
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Carcharoth
carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
wrote:
So, is this possible section appropriate or over the top:
snip
In principle fine, but would be better discussed on the talk page
Well, I tried that and quickly found
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:FBI_Badge.jpg
That is not a logo but a badge and fits right inside the statute Mike and
the FBI are discussing.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_0701000-.html
I've nominated this for
images, you really do want
to try and find the most reliable source possible, not some random
website.
Carcharoth
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:13 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
wrote:
Well, I tried that and quickly found
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:FBI_Badge.jpg
That would be an interesting conundrum, if only official sources will
do as confirmation but the FBI has a practice of keeping the images
hidden. Sets up the ironic situation of people being fooled by
impostors with obviously fake badges only because it's impossible to
determine what the real
But really, I'm sure the FBI do have images of their badges somewhere
on their website.
Why aren't we finding it?
Fred
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Now this is fascinating:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Image:Q-clearance_badge.jpg
That image deletion debate appears to be over some security badge. The
debate started in February 2007 and was closed in June 2007 (deletion
debates were closed faster back
wouldn't
rely on a badge. Waving round a badge, no matter the design, proves
nothing - any more than waving round a badge would prove the person or
people who ring the bell, have a nice uniform, and want to enter your
home,
are genuine police officers.
FT2
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 5:59 PM, Fred
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 7:26 PM, FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com wrote:
Duty of care is a legal term.
But I note no-one has been able to refute the argument that we don't
know who took the photograph and thus the photograph has not been
freely licensed and hence should be deleted. What is needed is a
On 8/9/10, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 7:26 PM, FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com wrote:
What is needed is a way
to find a genuine FBI badge and find someone willing to photograph it
and release that photograph under a free license, or to identify who
took
The permission given seems to invite use of the badge and gun image. If
permission was improvidently given, it is up to them to withdraw it.
Fred
Wasn't debating which specific image to use, only the principle of
whether
we can show an image at all, and whether it helps impersonators.
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 8:20 PM, FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com wrote:
Wasn't debating which specific image to use, only the principle of
whether
we can show an image at all, and whether it helps impersonators.
Clearly we should try and choose a well sourced licence-compliant good
educational value
On 9 August 2010 21:34, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
Not at all. The leap from is to ought, however, is fallacious and
an important and damaging error. [1] It's the something must be done,
this is something, therefore this is a good idea fallacy.
[1]
Destructionism: The tendency for Wikipedia articles which have reached
an advanced degree of completeness and encyclopedic value to be edited
in increasingly destructive ways, simply because perfection has
already been achieved or nearly achieved, yet articles remain open to
editing.
-SC
Never heard of it, but the medical profession is piling on to it. I doubt
anyone that is not a doctor is going to be allowed to edit.
Fred Bauder
I recently came across this wiki:
http://www.medpedia.com/
It seemed a lot better than Wikipedia for what I wanted to look up.
Has anyone else
on Wikipedia, I've got a
good idea of what a useful well-sourced suggestion looks like.
Fred Bauder
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com
wrote:
I recently came across this wiki:
http://www.medpedia.com/
It seemed a lot better than Wikipedia for what I
negative incident and the problem of undue weight.
It also discusses ReputationDefender which might be interesting should
its operatives show up.
http://www.reputationdefender.com/
Fred Bauder
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Fred Bauder wrote:
It is likely the reason he got into trouble was because he wasn't
confident that others would back him up, so he did it himself. Which
is,
of course, the third rail. What is missing is the knowledge that
sometimes, even if you are right, others will not, for one reason
Fred
I failed my first try, and could have failed my second if I hadn't
made a serious effort to ameliorate a negative perception from taking
a stand earlier.
The edge of the knife that we must balance on is both being willing to
take stands, and be open to feedback from the community and
The other side of that coin is that when there are systemic problems that
necessarily reduce in stress or even abusive treatment of administrators,
you ought to be identifying and correcting that. Right now, you have
exactly
such a situation. Working toward identifying and correcting
Yes, we need to address the problems, not blame the victims and help
them
cope with nightmares.
Fred
What do you propose?
Personally, what I'm going to do is participate more on noticeboards.
Adapting that to a general solution would involve experienced
administrators paying more
On 14 July 2010 02:07, FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com wrote:
The expectations upon admins are the pivot point for that. See [[
User:FT2/RfA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FT2/RfA]].
Any ideas how we can get somewhere like that?
FT2
Well to start with you could chuck your requirements out of
It is likely the reason he got into trouble was because he wasn't
confident that others would back him up, so he did it himself. Which is,
of course, the third rail. What is missing is the knowledge that
sometimes, even if you are right, others will not, for one reason or
another, not back you up
Yes, articles from diverse points of view would be good.
Fred Bauder
I have come across topics that are approached differently by different
groups and thought that parallel articles might be appropriate in
those cases. I'd like a wider view on the topic. Here is where I've
discussed
It pretty simple to manage. You just need to link to all articles on a
particular subject from the top of the page. Articles would need to be
limited to notable points of view.
Fred Bauder
You're proposing to overturn the rules against POV forking? Seems like
a bad idea to me
And war to control the content of the NPOV article is not a disastrous
idea?
Fred Bauder
No, it's a disastrous idea; it's inherently antithetic to NPOV. What
you'd be doing is creating articles that are deliberately non NPOV.
Content FORKS are never, ever desirable.
On 27/06/2010, Fred
the stuff of
peace.
William
Who dictates the peace terms?
Fred
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On 27 June 2010 17:34, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote:
And war to control the content of the NPOV article is not a
disastrous
idea?
In practice, it's resulted in a site that seems to work.
We've done the experiment, as you know. The POV fork site is your own
site, Wikinfo
. He has not attracted the highly qualified academics he would
have to attract to make it a success. Third rate experts are not
significantly better editors than amateurs are. Serious academics are
knocking down big bucks and writing books, they don't piddle around on
obscure websites.
Fred Bauder
On 23 April 2010 15:54, Marc Riddell michaeldavi...@comcast.net wrote:
The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks. Stick to numbers,
Charles,
the human equation clearly eludes you.
translation: I have not even anecdotes to support my position, so
will resort to ad-hominem abuse.
-
But this website's defensive attitude and approach to serious
academics is well known. And that attitude goes back to its roots.
Marc
There was certainly a lot of misunderstanding. You can go back to the
early history of the article reality a little article I created March
11, 2002:
Many have stories about their contributions being edited, scrutinized,
and
finally deleted by persons who haven't the faintest knowledge of the
subject. When they protest, they are told of the proper channels they
are
required to take: circles within circles.
Marc
A lot of this sort of
Interesting phenomenon I have noticed here and there: these experts
choosing to work on Wikipedia on an entirely different topic
altogether. That is to say, someone quite qualified and competent to
write articles on Assyrian archaeology in the way we normally mean
when we say expert, but
That's right. It isn't that we don't want an article and a skilled PR
editor ought to be able to write an article the average editor could not
tell was written by a PR person. The clue to bad work is lifting stuff
from the company's website. And, of course, the complete absence of any
negative
and that is what a lot of
people fail to understand. It becomes part of the wiki-editing
process, which at its best produces great stuff, and at its worst
produces some rather bad stuff.
Carcharoth
On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
wrote:
That's right
. The point is to have external links and
further reading available to users of the reference at the foot of the
article. The consensus to routinely remove such material arose a few
years ago and it diminishes the utility of Wikipedia as a reference work.
Fred Bauder
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 6:10 AM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
wrote:
Yes, that disposes of them. The point is to have external links and
further reading available to users of the reference at the foot of the
article. The consensus to routinely remove such material arose a few
years ago
they did on Citizendium.
Fred
3. run a mirror of the project, with links added, which is easier
better than a true fork where the articles diverge.
David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net
I guess a Ginsburg is our new standard unit of length.
And it has the virtue of potentially evolving.
Fred Bauder
http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2010/03/29/9986468.aspx
--
Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
- Heinrich Heine
And
further reading sections can point the way for future expansions of
the article, or for the reader to go and find out more about the
topic.
Carcharoth
That is why I despise the war on external links and further reading some
editors seem to think is appropriate.
Fred Bauder
, they're cool; shine it on...
Fred Bauder
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We all know William Connolley is an advocate for taking climate change
seriously. However there remains a lack of reliable information which
negates his position. If there was such information, those of us who
follow this issue would have settled his beeswax fast enough.
Fred
Ken Arromdee
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009, David Gerard wrote:
Indeed. Ken was presumably sent this link by a troll and mistook it
for something that actually had any chance of ending up published.
Actually, I routinely browse Firehose and didn't realize that I had
jumped
the gun by sending the link here while
Pete,
Thanks for introducing us to the Outreach Wiki. I had never heard of it.
I think that particular page might be improved to address the dynamics
which surround controversial articles such as Global warming, Stalin,
Chiropractic, or Tiananmen Square protests of 1989. This treatment should
not
Fred Bauder wrote:
http://weblogg-ed.com/2005/wikipedia-lesson-plan/
Indeed, must have worked very well, since as of 2009 [[horse]] has 211
references, an advance on 0 when that was written.
I encountered a group of college students editing a somewhat neglected
article I had started
This may apply from time to time to certain of our editors.
Fred
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2009/10/endortest.shtm
For Release: 10/05/2009
FTC Publishes Final Guides Governing Endorsements, Testimonials
Changes Affect Testimonial Advertisements, Bloggers, Celebrity Endorsements
The Federal Trade
2009/9/11 FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com:
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Joseph Reagle rea...@mit.edu wrote:
So, on this note, what are some examples of content that was produced
for
pay at the Wikimedia Foundation? I can think of some archival
material, such
as the use of some material form the
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=KPVK-TVaction=history
I am amazed about the speed in which an hoax article is kept alive,
even after someone has properly identified this to be a hoax from a
German TV producer.
Mathias
Our policy apparently requires an investigation:
Fred Bauder wrote:
wjhon...@aol.com wrote:
Investigative Journalism should go to WikiNews.
Something I'd like to know before considering this as a potential
compromise is whether the Foundation would simply censor WikiNews in
exactly the same way.
Any responsible journalist
And even if do no harm really _was_ a universal principle that we all
followed, it's still open to debate whether reporting information like
this actually does cause harm.
Such matters are a question of judgment. Information about potential harm
needs to be accurate and common sense applied.
Fred Bauder wrote:
I seem to have missed the detailed plans and blueprints on how to make
an A-Bomb. Care to link me? Or do you really think that the press
won't
sensationalise the minute it is realised someone learnt something bad
from Wikipedia? I'd rather send Mr Gerard out
Would you have us do different?
Fred
Folks,
From the Huffington Post:
Last November, David Rohde was kidnapped in Afghanistan and held for
several months, before managing to escape with his interpreter. Media
around
the world, at the request of the *Times*, kept silent about the
2009/9/9 Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net:
Would you have us do different?
I would prefer something more honest, rather than defaming innocent
editors trying to add true and verifiable information to articles. I
would suggest just protecting the article straight away with a link
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Fred Bauderfredb...@fairpoint.net
wrote:
2009/9/9 Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net:
Would you have us do different?
I would prefer something more honest, rather than defaming innocent
editors trying to add true and verifiable information to articles. I
We are supposed to be community-driven.
Where is the community consensus on media blackouts?
Link please.
Will Johnson
Interesting, as there is a consensus. It just isn't written down. Do no
harm; any problem with that?
Fred
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Once it's all over
the media, it's not our problem; when it isn't, it shouldn't be in the
article.
- d.
Yes, we simply need not reach. At least not in such instances.
Fred
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2009/9/9 wjhon...@aol.com:
Well what were the sources?
Someone mentioned that there were sources, but didn't mention what.
They are all in the article history. This news article, for instance,
seems reliable:
Iranian press, sourced in a Taliban regional commander. Since when is
that a
Interesting here is what they say about themselves
Press TV takes revolutionary steps as the first Iranian international
news network, broadcasting in English on a round-the-clock basis.
Our global Tehran-based headquarters is staffed with outstanding
Iranian and foreign media
Fred Bauder wrote:
We are supposed to be community-driven.
Where is the community consensus on media blackouts?
Link please.
Interesting, as there is a consensus. It just isn't written down. Do no
harm; any problem with that?
At the very least consensus can't be said to be obvious
wjhon...@aol.com wrote:
Investigative Journalism should go to WikiNews.
Something I'd like to know before considering this as a potential
compromise is whether the Foundation would simply censor WikiNews in
exactly the same way.
Any responsible journalist will.
Fred
For a change, something on English usage. A trawl through some usage
books tells me nothing much about most well known, which I'm convinced
is a solecism, and should be best-known. The hyphenation I think is
standard anyway. Sadly Google believes there are 11,000 instances for
most well known
deportment, civility, we must also
accept the burden of maintaining the standard for English usage, global
English usage. It is a grim and dreary business, but I must admit it is
our responsibility.
Fred
Fred Bauder wrote:
For a change, something on English usage. A trawl through some usage
books
Regardless of the truth, reliance on reliable published sources should
resolve most of these charges and countercharges. That is what we expect
of a public relations firm, both that they identify their purpose in
editing and cite appropriate sources.
Fred
Minivan News, an independent article
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/26/AR2009082603606.html?hpid=sec-tech
--
-george william herbert
george.herb...@gmail.com
While some pages are robust and balanced, he added, there are other
pages that leave a lot to be desired, to put it bluntly.
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