Re: [WikiEN-l] for years been promoting admins who go with the flow rather than challenge low level bad behavior by admins and long standing users

2010-07-19 Thread Ryan Delaney
What do you propose? On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 6:00 AM, FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com wrote: It's a major issue, and needs recognition as such and a cultural problem, not just on ANI but anywhere it happens. FT2. On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 9:43 PM, Ryan Delaney ryan.dela...@gmail.com wrote: It

Re: [WikiEN-l] for years been promoting admins who go with the flow rather than challenge low level bad behavior by admins and long standing users

2010-07-18 Thread FT2
It's a major issue, and needs recognition as such and a cultural problem, not just on ANI but anywhere it happens. FT2. On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 9:43 PM, Ryan Delaney ryan.dela...@gmail.comwrote: It seems like the trick is to work toward implementing this as an actual cultural ideology,

Re: [WikiEN-l] for years been promoting admins who go with the flow rather than challenge low level bad behavior by admins and long standing users

2010-07-17 Thread FT2
I think you're missing the point, or not appreciating where I'm looking. The point about basic attitudes is they inform all other discussions. An admin who embodies courtesy, thoughtfulness, calmness, balance, is not the kind who will be (as you describe) fundamentally unwilling to talk about it,

Re: [WikiEN-l] for years been promoting admins who go with the flow rather than challenge low level bad behavior by admins and long standing users

2010-07-17 Thread FT2
(By comparison and to underline what is possible, I've had thank you notes on-wiki, multiple times not just once, from people whose articles I deleted or whose AFD noms I closed against them, thanking me for a fair and well reasoned summing up and for the courtesy shown to them

Re: [WikiEN-l] for years been promoting admins who go with the flow rather than challenge low level bad behavior by admins and long standing users

2010-07-16 Thread Ryan Delaney
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 5:18 PM, FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com wrote: But I think the key norms are universally accepted. Take No personal attacks and civility as two examples. Differences may exist whether a particular matter is or isnt an attack or uncivil, whether to act or ignore it, and a

[WikiEN-l] for years been promoting admins who go with the flow rather than challenge low level bad behavior by admins and long standing users

2010-07-15 Thread WereSpielChequers
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 8:32 PM, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 7:58 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: On 14 July 2010 02:07, FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com wrote: The expectations upon admins are the pivot point for that. See [[ User:FT2/RfA

Re: [WikiEN-l] for years been promoting admins who go with the flow rather than challenge low level bad behavior by admins and long standing users

2010-07-15 Thread FT2
I have a few problems with the above thread too, but perhaps different ones. Admins will naturally have a strong say in decisions being active experienced users who have achieved wide respect and are often involved in abuse and conduct related decisions. But they don't necessarily have special

Re: [WikiEN-l] for years been promoting admins who go with the flow rather than challenge low level bad behavior by admins and long standing users

2010-07-15 Thread Ryan Delaney
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 3:22 PM, FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com wrote: I have a few problems with the above thread too, but perhaps different ones. Admins will naturally have a strong say in decisions being active experienced users who have achieved wide respect and are often involved in abuse and

Re: [WikiEN-l] for years been promoting admins who go with the flow rather than challenge low level bad behavior by admins and long standing users

2010-07-15 Thread FT2
I should say, the fact we are willing to discuss not assume is fine. Obviosuly the harm and upset arising is not. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 1:18 AM, FT2 ft2.w...@gmail.com wrote: (Snip) The second problem beyond that is the problem of fiddling while Rome burns. While we potter round discussing