Re: [WikiEN-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

2019-06-11 Thread Charles Matthews
Old-style drama around a high-profile admin. A decade ago we used to assume those things went together. > On 11 June 2019 at 02:54 George Herbert wrote: > A high profile investigation target is most unusual but > not unheard of. Right. Charles ___

Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Ray Saintonge has died

2016-09-14 Thread Charles Matthews
> > On 13 September 2016 at 17:34 benoit_lan...@hotmail.com wrote: > > > > > For those who may be wondering, the username was User:Eclecticology > > > ~Benoit / Salvidrim > > Sent from Outlook Mobile on Nexus 6P > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 12:29 PM

Re: [WikiEN-l] Future of this mailing list

2015-08-13 Thread Charles Matthews
On 13 August 2015 at 15:08, Brian J Mingus brian.min...@colorado.edu wrote: Leave the list open! There are lots of important people subscribed, and you never know when an interesting conversation will pop up. Sounds as if we need a moderator willing to take over from David G. Charles

Re: [WikiEN-l] Keith Ablow

2013-12-22 Thread Charles Matthews
On 22 December 2013 00:24, Ali Norris georgiagirl9...@gmail.com wrote: I have given you a small amount of money to your site. This will never happen again if you do not change your article on Keith Ablow. I am his patient and I am deeply offended on the new added professional ethics part of

Re: [WikiEN-l] Signpost and basic journalistic integrity

2013-11-05 Thread Charles Matthews
On 5 November 2013 07:42, Tony Souter to...@iinet.net.au wrote: Nathan, it's a pity you've decided to smear me on a public list without even informing me. I was alerted to this by an existing subscriber and have since subscribed myself so that I can respond. Tony, welcome to this list.

Re: [WikiEN-l] Signpost and basic journalistic integrity

2013-11-05 Thread Charles Matthews
On 5 November 2013 10:55, Tony Souter to...@iinet.net.au wrote: snip If the Signpost is sometimes provocative, that's part of the deal and why we have talk pages. I believe the movement is better off having coverage that is independent of the WMF and of any particular community (we have

Re: [WikiEN-l] Why writing biographies (e.g. on WIkipedia) is hard

2013-09-24 Thread Charles Matthews
On 24 September 2013 10:06, Ray Saintonge sainto...@telus.net wrote: There are risks to preferring published sources while condemning original research. And vice versa. Charles ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To

Re: [WikiEN-l] Why writing biographies (e.g. on WIkipedia) is hard

2013-09-23 Thread Charles Matthews
On 23 September 2013 16:35, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.scotusblog.com/2013/09/writing-biography-in-the-age-of-wikipedia-removing-a-shadow-from-the-life-of-justice-tom-clark/ A. B said A. C wrote that B said A. These are all different, and we should bear that in mind. My

Re: [WikiEN-l] bizarre: Women Novelists Wikipedia

2013-04-26 Thread Charles Matthews
On 26 April 2013 05:19, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: Obviously we need to quit arguing and change it. Either a man or a woman mystery writer would be in both a gender category and a genre category, if we are to have gender categories. The German Wikipedia does these things

Re: [WikiEN-l] bizarre: Women Novelists Wikipedia

2013-04-26 Thread Charles Matthews
On 26 April 2013 15:24, Tom Morris t...@tommorris.org wrote: If only there were some kind of editable data store project being worked on that could store this kind of metadata in a centralised location… grin Quite a good if cryptic comment about Wikidata. I suppose it is encouraging to think

Re: [WikiEN-l] incivility consciously as a tactic.

2013-04-16 Thread Charles Matthews
On 16 April 2013 02:07, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: Incivility is difficult to deal with. That may be the case; but it's not for the reasons usually given. One of the reasons is because there is a school of thought that a certain level of frankness and brusqueness is

Re: [WikiEN-l] serious fallacies

2013-04-16 Thread Charles Matthews
On 16 April 2013 14:20, Kathleen McCook klmcc...@gmail.com wrote I agree with you, Charles. These fallacies are quite transparent. And it is too bad that much good effort and input to the Wikipedia initiative can be lost due to those who feel it is their to be forthright (wiggle word)

Re: [WikiEN-l] incivility consciously as a tactic.

2013-04-16 Thread Charles Matthews
On 16 April 2013 20:37, Matthew Jacobs sxeptoman...@gmail.com wrote: The problem I've consistently seen with incivility as a tactic is that, the longer someone is around, the more of it they can get away with. Indeed. See four example this

Re: [WikiEN-l] en.wiki gross incivility intoxicates Wikimedia projects

2013-04-15 Thread Charles Matthews
On 15 April 2013 16:14, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think what you're seeing is anything particularly peculiar to en.wp - I've encountered rude or socially awkward people from all projects. But see discussion on [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Tony1]]. Some of my

Re: [WikiEN-l] Psychological correlates of deletionism/inclusionism?

2013-04-15 Thread Charles Matthews
On 15 April 2013 16:43, Hex . h...@downlode.org wrote: On 14 April 2013 14:29, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: Pretty much everything that's fucked up about Wikipedia is emergent behaviour of people being a problem I think you mean failure of management. Well, it is an unsolved

Re: [WikiEN-l] en.wiki gross incivility intoxicates Wikimedia projects

2013-04-15 Thread Charles Matthews
On 15 April 2013 18:39, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: You're an idiot, and you're damaging the project. It's not about copyright, or understanding it. What I'll do is to keep swearing at you, and I'll be uploading tons of files onto en.WP, not Commons. That will just disadvantage other

Re: [WikiEN-l] Psychological correlates of deletionism/inclusionism?

2013-04-14 Thread Charles Matthews
On 13 April 2013 22:12, Gwern Branwen gw...@gwern.net wrote: My basic observation here is that inclusionism/deletionism debates seem intractable [...] Indeed. As is characteristic of false dichotomies. I was once asked by a prominent journalist where I stood on this. I replied that it was a

Re: [WikiEN-l] Psychological correlates of deletionism/inclusionism?

2013-04-14 Thread Charles Matthews
On 14 April 2013 11:59, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 14 April 2013 11:44, Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote: Indeed. As is characteristic of false dichotomies. I was once asked by a prominent journalist where I stood on this. I replied that it was a boring

Re: [WikiEN-l] Psychological correlates of deletionism/inclusionism?

2013-04-14 Thread Charles Matthews
On 14 April 2013 13:28, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 14 April 2013 12:24, Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote: Mmm, I remember that mail and whom I suggested ... I didn't see you in that thread ... who were you thinking of? It was a private reply

[WikiEN-l] Dodgy diplomacy articles - COI nest?

2013-03-30 Thread Charles Matthews
[Resending - I believe the first time I was using an old addess for the list.] A blog post by Benjamin Mako Hill http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/the-institute-for-cultural-diplomacy-and-wikipedia alerted me to some COI editing that has been going on, rather blatantly. The deletion debate

[WikiEN-l] Dodgy diplomacy articles - COI nest?

2013-03-27 Thread Charles Matthews
A blog post by Benjamin Mako Hill http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/the-institute-for-cultural-diplomacy-and-wikipedia alerted me to some COI editing that has been going on, rather blatantly. The deletion debate associated with the [[Institute for Cultural Diplomacy]] speaks for itself, and I see

Re: [WikiEN-l] Larry Sanger's new project

2013-03-13 Thread Charles Matthews
On 13 March 2013 18:15, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: The problem he apparently trying to solve is that sites like Wikipedia and YouTube are kind of noisy. As problem statements go, it lacks a certain specificity... I know what he means though. The snarling nonsense we sometimes

Re: [WikiEN-l] How to write about things that were once notable?

2013-02-06 Thread Charles Matthews
On 6 February 2013 09:07, Tom Morris t...@tommorris.org wrote: Pownce is an interesting example of why we need to keep these kinds of articles around: every time a new social network comes along, people jump on to it like it's the best thing since sliced bread. Showing them the many failures

Re: [WikiEN-l] How to write about things that were once notable?

2013-02-06 Thread Charles Matthews
On 6 February 2013 13:06, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: On 2/6/13, Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote: Notability is *supposed* to be timeless, not perishable, let's recall. Yeah. But that is a bit of a canard in some cases. It is a question of whether

Re: [WikiEN-l] How to write about things that were once notable?

2013-02-06 Thread Charles Matthews
On 6 February 2013 14:04, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen cimonav...@gmail.com wrote: I think you are all dancing around the real subject. Is wikipedia meant to help people have access to knowledge, to apportion access to knowledge, or to be a gate-keeper on which knowledge and at which rates do people

Re: [WikiEN-l] How to write about things that were once notable?

2013-02-06 Thread Charles Matthews
On 6 February 2013 15:14, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: However, we do need a mechanism for weeding out information which is no longer of interest to readers or editors. Perhaps this could be one criteria justifying deletion, or perhaps some other form of archiving. We could

Re: [WikiEN-l] How to write about things that were once notable?

2013-02-06 Thread Charles Matthews
Oops - the thesis that salience or its perception changes over time begins to look tenable is the point I was hoping to make. Charles ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:

Re: [WikiEN-l] Yet another PR company busted ... apparently it's all our fault

2012-11-17 Thread Charles Matthews
On 17 November 2012 01:34, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote: Well, no, because the Foundation has made it abundantly clear that they assume no responsibility whatsoever for content, or for questions like whether we have flagged revisions or not. All of that is fully delegated to the

Re: [WikiEN-l] Yet another PR company busted ... apparently it's all our fault

2012-11-17 Thread Charles Matthews
On 17 November 2012 16:10, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 8:14 AM, Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote: On 17 November 2012 01:34, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote: Well, no, because the Foundation has made it abundantly clear

Re: [WikiEN-l] Yet another PR company busted ... apparently it's all our fault

2012-11-16 Thread Charles Matthews
On 16 November 2012 14:38, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 2:28 PM, David Goodman dgge...@gmail.com wrote: There is a fundamental difference between our inefficient and sometimes unsuccessful attempts to do things right, and their deliberate attempts to do

Re: [WikiEN-l] Yet another PR company busted ... apparently it's all our fault

2012-11-12 Thread Charles Matthews
On 12 November 2012 13:54, Thomas Morton morton.tho...@googlemail.com wrote: We won't win a moral argument; they are breaking the social contract of a website. We regularly defame people. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/report-usmanov-pr-firm-tweaked-wikipedia-entry/471315.html

Re: [WikiEN-l] Yet another PR company busted ... apparently it's all our fault

2012-11-12 Thread Charles Matthews
On 12 November 2012 15:26, Thomas Morton morton.tho...@googlemail.com wrote: You misunderstand. As I mentioned: we simply have no moral high ground to criticise their actions. Our controls are shoddy and we defame people all over the place. They massage biographies etc. to cast things in a

Re: [WikiEN-l] Yet another PR company busted ... apparently it's all our fault

2012-11-12 Thread Charles Matthews
On 12 November 2012 15:46, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote: It occurs to me that biographies can be malicious without being defamatory. It would be wise to check what exactly went on in the biography before passing judgment. Actually, I agree. Treating each instance of a general

Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] The new narrowed focus by WMF

2012-10-18 Thread Charles Matthews
So Sue sees the need for some sort of clearer mission statement, I suppose. A natural reaction on coming up to five years as Executive Director, would be one way to look at it. Charles ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To

[WikiEN-l] Pedants welcome

2012-09-12 Thread Charles Matthews
Catchphrase from http://infteam.jiscinvolve.org/wp/2012/09/10/eduwiki/ which in itself is an interesting roundup from the EduWiki conference last week. Does pedants welcome imply experts unwelcome? Please have your essays in by the end of the weekend. Charles

Re: [WikiEN-l] VIP Treatment

2012-09-12 Thread Charles Matthews
On 12 September 2012 16:50, Matthew Jacobs sxeptoman...@gmail.com wrote: Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:34:26 +0100 From: Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] VIP Treatment On 11 September 2012 17:29, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: It seems I have

Re: [WikiEN-l] VIP Treatment

2012-09-12 Thread Charles Matthews
On 12 September 2012 18:32, Jim Redmond j...@scrubnugget.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: VIPs expect to deal with another VIP, with authority to get things fixed, with a word, even if the rules have to be bent a bit. That is the way of

Re: [WikiEN-l] NPR on Roth-Library Link of the Day

2012-09-11 Thread Charles Matthews
On 11 September 2012 10:11, Kathleen McCook klmcc...@gmail.com wrote: The link is to the NPR article and the comment below is worth reviewing. How can this perception typical among the NPR commentators be over-turned? Boe D (Dajoe) wrote: People: If you are knowledgable enough to find a

Re: [WikiEN-l] NPR on Roth-Library Link of the Day

2012-09-11 Thread Charles Matthews
On 11 September 2012 16:14, Ken Arromdee arrom...@rahul.net wrote: On Tue, 11 Sep 2012, Charles Matthews wrote: The Roth situation was WP between a rock (celeb culture with its ohmigod you dissed X) and a hard place (academic credibility requires that, yes, you do require verifiable

Re: [WikiEN-l] Roth is an elderly man googling

2012-09-10 Thread Charles Matthews
On 10 September 2012 17:04, Ken Arromdee arrom...@rahul.net wrote: On Sat, 8 Sep 2012, Charles Matthews wrote: You might be justified in saying this if he was really told he wasn't credible. If he was told that he wasn't a reliable source in WP's terms, that is a different kettle of fish

Re: [WikiEN-l] Only on WP is the victim a bully

2012-09-10 Thread Charles Matthews
On 10 September 2012 17:26, Matthew Jacobs sxeptoman...@gmail.com wrote: Only on WP. This kind of crap is why I've essentially given up on the site. The man wants an article on HIS OWN WORK to be accurate, and was frustrated by the apparently quite unhelpful people he met there. That's just

Re: [WikiEN-l] Roth is an elderly man googling

2012-09-08 Thread Charles Matthews
On 8 September 2012 16:55, Thomas Morton morton.tho...@googlemail.comwrote: No it doesn't. I'll give you good odds on me being right. Because I see the same thing week after week. You mean leading author almost synonymous with rare interview assumes his word is good enough for WP?

Re: [WikiEN-l] Articles for Creation broken

2012-08-17 Thread Charles Matthews
On 17 August 2012 12:36, Steven Zhang cro0...@gmail.com wrote: So, I had a look at articles for creation today, and there was nearly 1,000 pending article submissions. Articles for creation has changed a lot since 2008 - it was of a similar structure to XFD - all submissions for a

Re: [WikiEN-l] Categorisation by gender

2012-07-18 Thread Charles Matthews
On 18 July 2012 10:47, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote: Hi all, The English Wikipedia categorises biographies by gender in some circumstances (eg athletes), but not systematically in the way that German does - there are no supercategories of Men, Women, etc, designed to list all

Re: [WikiEN-l] Categorisation by gender

2012-07-18 Thread Charles Matthews
On 18 July 2012 12:32, james.far...@gmail.com wrote: Actress is certainly not obsolescent in common usage, and I would suggest it is not the role of Wikipedia to redefine the English language. The point here is whether occupation is gendered, though, in this case. Cf. firefighter, seafarer

Re: [WikiEN-l] Current consensus on PR editing?

2012-06-21 Thread Charles Matthews
On 21 June 2012 11:53, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: (God I look my age. The ponytail is going!) Mmm ... with Gemma Griffiths ... yes she beats you on hairdo. Charles ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from

Re: [WikiEN-l] Current consensus on PR editing?

2012-06-21 Thread Charles Matthews
On 21 June 2012 12:35, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.com wrote: Not bad David! I tend to take a bit more of a liberal guideline on fixing obvious blatant vandalism: Google CEO Larry Page is a great big poopyhead should be reverted no matter what, even if you have a conflict of

Re: [WikiEN-l] Current consensus on PR editing?

2012-06-13 Thread Charles Matthews
On 13 June 2012 14:14, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: They're also interested in https://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Draft_best_practice_guidelines_for_PR which is a how-not-to-foul-up guide put together by WMUK. But of course that's descriptive and not normative. I think a line you could

Re: [WikiEN-l] Link removal experiment; Re: How the Professor Who Fooled Wikipedia Got Caught by Reddit, _The Atlantic_

2012-06-01 Thread Charles Matthews
On 1 June 2012 11:19, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: And deletionists have no policy knowledge? Deletionists are not the monolithic body of people that you seem to think they are. Those with these tendencies (though I'm reluctant to lump people under a label) vary widely in

Re: [WikiEN-l] Link removal experiment; Re: How the Professor Who Fooled Wikipedia Got Caught by Reddit, _The Atlantic_

2012-05-30 Thread Charles Matthews
On 30 May 2012 20:41, Gwern Branwen gwe...@gmail.com wrote: My view is that if such experiments are to be carried out, it would be better if they were designed and conducted by those able to restrain themselves from such snark. Better how? I'll add this to my list of If you have to ask, you

Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: [Wikimediauk-l] Lum Hats in Paradise

2012-05-23 Thread Charles Matthews
On 22 May 2012 17:48, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: On 5/22/12, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: Brian McNeil's productive work in Edinburgh. I particularly like the idea of recruiting newbies at libraries - with all those lovely old printed references right there to hand.

Re: [WikiEN-l] How the Professor Who Fooled Wikipedia Got Caught by Reddit, _The Atlantic_

2012-05-17 Thread Charles Matthews
On 16 May 2012 19:41, Gwern Branwen gwe...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote: And why haven't they taken those who generalise broadly from a single example with them? Are you denying the general decline in editors, even

Re: [WikiEN-l] How the Professor Who Fooled Wikipedia Got Caught by Reddit, _The Atlantic_

2012-05-17 Thread Charles Matthews
On 17 May 2012 17:32, Durova nadezhda.dur...@gmail.com wrote: That conclusion would be far more convincing if you weren't who you are. That's [[ad hominem]] against Carcharoth, and you really need either to withdraw it, or back it up. The former option is much preferable. Charles

Re: [WikiEN-l] How the Professor Who Fooled Wikipedia Got Caught by Reddit, _The Atlantic_

2012-05-17 Thread Charles Matthews
On 17 May 2012 20:37, Durova nadezhda.dur...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote: On 17 May 2012 17:32, Durova nadezhda.dur...@gmail.com wrote: That conclusion would be far more convincing if you weren't who you

Re: [WikiEN-l] How the Professor Who Fooled Wikipedia Got Caught by Reddit, _The Atlantic_

2012-05-16 Thread Charles Matthews
On 16 May 2012 16:49, Gwern Branwen gwe...@gmail.com wrote: Indeed. Why *are* the skeptical geeks now on Reddit and not Wikipedia? And why haven't they taken those who generalise broadly from a single example with them? Charles ___ WikiEN-l mailing

Re: [WikiEN-l] UK hospital doctors using WIkipedia sensibly

2012-04-25 Thread Charles Matthews
On 25 April 2012 13:30, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: I suspect our medical articles are pretty much written by the medical community. The clinical medicine WikiProject is all doctors, I believe, in practical terms. In a talk I heard given by one of them, it was pretty clear that

Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: The counterattack of the PR companies

2012-04-19 Thread Charles Matthews
On 19 April 2012 15:22, Ken Arromdee arrom...@rahul.net wrote: Rules can cause trouble, but they have one benefit: at least ideally, it's clear when you have or haven't violated them. (Many Wikipedia rules are not ideal, but that's a discussion for another day.) It's a lot harder to

Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: The counterattack of the PR companies

2012-04-19 Thread Charles Matthews
On 19 April 2012 14:03, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:41 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 April 2012 12:31, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote

Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: The counterattack of the PR companies

2012-04-19 Thread Charles Matthews
On 19 April 2012 15:38, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 April 2012 15:34, Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote: Those people, who do not have WP's best interests at heart, are always arguing for a disconnect between the letter and spirit of policy, because

Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: The counterattack of the PR companies

2012-04-19 Thread Charles Matthews
On 19 April 2012 16:01, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote: I liked Andreas's way of putting this earlier: Positive bias and advertorials *can* be odious, but activist editing with a negative bent has traditionally been the greater problem in Wikipedia, in my view, and is the type of

Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: The counterattack of the PR companies

2012-04-18 Thread Charles Matthews
On 18 April 2012 12:48, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: PR people who edited Wikipedia get crucified. Counterattack: reduce trust in Wikipedia. snip Paper: http://www.prsa.org/Intelligence/PRJournal/ When the talk pages were used to request edits, it was found to typically take

Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: The counterattack of the PR companies

2012-04-18 Thread Charles Matthews
On 18 April 2012 13:38, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: They say you have to wait 2-5 days for a response after requesting changes as though that is a bad thing. I'm very impressed with that response

Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: The counterattack of the PR companies

2012-04-18 Thread Charles Matthews
On 18 April 2012 13:53, Thomas Morton morton.tho...@googlemail.com wrote: snip My specific experience was while consulting on another matter for a firm; they were surprised to find their name had been noted in connection with some years-before legal action (quite a disturbing one) in a

Re: [WikiEN-l] Fwd: The counterattack of the PR companies

2012-04-18 Thread Charles Matthews
On 18 April 2012 15:26, Ken Arromdee arrom...@rahul.net wrote: This directly conflicts with the Wikipedia FAQ/Article subjects (2012) page that specifically asks public relations professionals to remove vandalism, fix minor errors in spelling, grammar, usage or facts, provide

Re: [WikiEN-l] Corporate Representatives for Ethical Wikipedia Engagement

2012-04-16 Thread Charles Matthews
On 16 April 2012 14:12, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: The problem arises in the cases of articles which are libelous, malicious, or manifestly unfair. Other instances, other than people who are clearly notable, are not relevant; it doesn't matter whether we have articles or not,

Re: [WikiEN-l] PLoS Comp Biol article on getting stuff into Wikipedia

2012-04-11 Thread Charles Matthews
On 10 April 2012 14:33, Daniel Mietchen daniel.mietc...@googlemail.com wrote: snip The process is not cast in stone, and suggestions on how to iron out some potential rough edges are more than welcome. It's a useful survey, clearly. The big diff pasting in the new version does offer (edit

Re: [WikiEN-l] Corporate Representatives for Ethical Wikipedia Engagement

2012-04-04 Thread Charles Matthews
On 4 April 2012 15:10, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: We *should* have a category of BLP stubs, but I can't find it. Maybe someone can cross-reference the BLP category and the people stub category (and its sub-categories) and find out how many are BLPs. In principle that

Re: [WikiEN-l] Corporate Representatives for Ethical Wikipedia Engagement

2012-04-04 Thread Charles Matthews
On 4 April 2012 16:24, Ken Arromdee arrom...@rahul.net wrote: snip I would suggest as a modest proposal that we do away with Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. I've already suggested that we do away with the IAR clause to improve the encyclopedia. Oh, I don't know, it still has explanatory

Re: [WikiEN-l] Corporate Representatives for Ethical Wikipedia Engagement

2012-04-04 Thread Charles Matthews
On 4 April 2012 20:16, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote: Putting these together, I would make a wild stab at saying that it is unlikely more than half our BLPs - about a quarter of a million entries - are stubs. I'm not sure I'd go as low as 100,000, but it's interesting how

Re: [WikiEN-l] More stringent notability requirements for biographical articles

2012-03-27 Thread Charles Matthews
On 27 March 2012 15:52, Ken Arromdee arrom...@rahul.net wrote: On Tue, 27 Mar 2012, Charles Matthews wrote: Reading what you have written above, and then http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Wikipedia:Biographies_of_** living_persons/Noticeboard#**Chrishttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki

Re: [WikiEN-l] More stringent notability requirements for biographical articles

2012-03-27 Thread Charles Matthews
On 27 March 2012 18:05, Ken Arromdee arrom...@rahul.net wrote: On Tue, 27 Mar 2012, David Gerard wrote: The key point to remember about BLPs is: no eventualism. If an article about someone dead 200 years says something nasty and wrong, that's not great, but it's not urgent. If an article

Re: [WikiEN-l] More stringent notability requirements for biographical articles

2012-03-26 Thread Charles Matthews
On 26 March 2012 16:17, Ken Arromdee arrom...@rahul.net wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2012, Andreas Kolbe wrote: In almost all cases, a stub with the basic information is better than a loose aggregation of factoids. The problem is that well-meaning people (and sometime less well-meaning people) come

Re: [WikiEN-l] More stringent notability requirements for biographical articles

2012-03-24 Thread Charles Matthews
On 23 March 2012 15:06, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote: snip - We need fewer biographies. - We need to give borderline-notable people (people like Hawkins; not MPs) an easy opt-out. - We could probably benefit from making real-life name registration mandatory for BLP editing, and

Re: [WikiEN-l] More stringent notability requirements for biographical articles

2012-03-24 Thread Charles Matthews
On 24 March 2012 11:37, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: On 24 March 2012 11:25, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: snip The point about Wikipedia (for BLPs) being ahead of the proper sources to use is another excellent one. There is a natural progression to biographical sources

Re: [WikiEN-l] More stringent notability requirements for biographical articles

2012-03-24 Thread Charles Matthews
On 24 March 2012 16:23, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: I think it is important to remember why we're doing this. Our purpose isn't the judge people's notability. Our purpose is to provide useful information to people. It is clear from the page views they get that BLPs are useful

[WikiEN-l] Article dabs and category dabs

2012-03-21 Thread Charles Matthews
There are reasons to disambiguate article titles, and reasons to disambiguate categories. But should the category system simply mimic what the articles do? I was surprised to find at a current CfD discussion (on Category:Matrices) that there are supporters of this idea, which I don't see mentioned

Re: [WikiEN-l] Article Landing Pages - functional prototype to test and comment on

2012-03-11 Thread Charles Matthews
On 11 March 2012 03:37, Oliver Keyes oke...@wikimedia.org wrote: snip The reason we're starting off by seeing if we can improve quality and inform newbies with Special:NewPages rather than Special:RecentChanges is, firstly, because it's a lot easier to trial there (less stuff going on), and

Re: [WikiEN-l] Article Landing Pages - functional prototype to test and comment on

2012-03-11 Thread Charles Matthews
On 11 March 2012 08:56, Oliver Keyes oke...@wikimedia.org wrote: A low barrier to contribution is not a problem. What we are trying to fix is the overwork of patrollers and the fact that new editors go into the article creation process unaware of what to expect and ignorant of policy, which

[WikiEN-l] Digital inclusion

2012-03-10 Thread Charles Matthews
I suppose we're in favour of it. I note that [[digital inclusion]] is a redlink, for the reason that it was a redirect to [[e-inclusion]]; which went down under a PROD in October of last year, as [[WP:OR|Original research]] about a [[WP:NEO|non-notable neologism]]. Something of a disaster, given

Re: [WikiEN-l] Article Landing Pages - functional prototype to test and comment on

2012-03-10 Thread Charles Matthews
On 10 March 2012 11:16, Oliver Keyes oke...@wikimedia.org wrote: snip Currently, when a registered newbie clicks on a redlink, they get automatically taken to an edit page where they can create the article, but without any context as to what is actually happening. With the proposed system,

Re: [WikiEN-l] Article Landing Pages - functional prototype to test and comment on

2012-03-10 Thread Charles Matthews
On 10 March 2012 12:55, Oliver Keyes oke...@wikimedia.org wrote: If a new editor tries to create the article, they'll be informed that they need a familiarity with policy, an absence of a COI and several references (amongst other things) before the tool recommends they create it.[4]

Re: [WikiEN-l] Undue weight

2012-02-19 Thread Charles Matthews
On 19 February 2012 13:31, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote: http://chronicle.com/article/The-Undue-Weight-of-Truth-on/130704/ Subject of a thread on foundation-l http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2012-February/subject.html But a suitable topic for this list. I

Re: [WikiEN-l] Ancient merge proposals

2012-02-08 Thread Charles Matthews
On 8 February 2012 12:26, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: I recently came across a very ancient merge proposal (from November 2009). http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Heliotrop_Rotating_Houseoldid=467204628

Re: [WikiEN-l] A Wikipedian asked to write for a paper encyclopedia

2012-01-20 Thread Charles Matthews
On 20 January 2012 13:18, wiki doc.wikipe...@ntlworld.com wrote: snip Yes, but. Ultimately, a paper encyclopedia says This article is written by a qualified person (you can see his name) he has been chosen by an expert panel (here are their names) and his work will be reviewed by them. All

Re: [WikiEN-l] Error at Special:CongressLookup

2012-01-19 Thread Charles Matthews
On 19 January 2012 09:55, David Levy lifeisunf...@gmail.com wrote: [crossposted to Foundation-l and WikiEN-l] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:CongressLookup Can someone please change zip code to ZIP code again? (This error was corrected in the blackout notice yesterday.) I haven't

Re: [WikiEN-l] Managing knowledge

2012-01-08 Thread Charles Matthews
On 8 January 2012 15:56, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: Thought some here might be interested in this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16443825 It's about the history of managing knowledge and information. It's [[Lisa Jardine]], so the history will be OK ... the main

[WikiEN-l] Rules on WP, was Re: Talk pages Considered Harmful (for references)

2011-12-23 Thread Charles Matthews
On 22 December 2011 18:10, Ken Arromdee arrom...@rahul.net wrote: And for the general problem is something I've often noted: Wikipedia is set up to force people to follow the rules. Interesting debating point, but I think the comment is ahistorical. It is more accurate, IMO, to note that

Re: [WikiEN-l] A reader's experience with The Closed, Unfriendly World Of Wikipedia

2011-12-11 Thread Charles Matthews
On 11 December 2011 14:13, Tony Sidaway tonysida...@gmail.com wrote: Our own internal discussions have long reflected on the unfriendliness and undue bureaucracy of Wikipedia. Generally we're good at the trade-off but if we start claiming with a straight face that it's benign rather than a

Re: [WikiEN-l] Guidelines on how much we take from a source?

2011-12-09 Thread Charles Matthews
On 9 December 2011 14:13, Bod Notbod bodnot...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 2:52 AM, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: So you have to pick the right level and get a source that suits the article you are working on. For an article on a major battle, you would need

Re: [WikiEN-l] A reader's experience with The Closed, Unfriendly World Of Wikipedia

2011-12-07 Thread Charles Matthews
On 5 December 2011 22:08, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote: snip I can quite see why people do think Wikipedia Byzantine, which is the basic message of what we are talking about. Probably trainee medics

Re: [WikiEN-l] Lobbyists and Wikipedia (again)

2011-12-06 Thread Charles Matthews
On 6 December 2011 16:08, Sam Blacketer sam.blacke...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Tom Morris t...@tommorris.org wrote: This sounds like a splendid idea. Perhaps we could supplement it by informing criminals that they can avoid a life of crime by getting an education

Re: [WikiEN-l] A reader's experience with The Closed, Unfriendly World Of Wikipedia

2011-12-05 Thread Charles Matthews
On 5 December 2011 09:52, Ray Saintonge sainto...@telus.net wrote: On 12/04/11 1:10 PM, Will Beback wrote: snip I've noticed that a lot of critics of Wikipedia began by trying to promote some non-notable cause only to be rebuffed. Do we get anywhere when we approach a problem with

Re: [WikiEN-l] A reader's experience with The Closed, Unfriendly World Of Wikipedia

2011-12-04 Thread Charles Matthews
On 4 December 2011 03:56, Tony Sidaway tonysida...@gmail.com wrote: http://daggle.com/closed-unfriendly-world-wikipedia-2853 Now whatever the merits of his case, this chap does have a point about the unfriendliness of the environment. Well covered in The Signpost, in fact. But I came away

Re: [WikiEN-l] Newbie recruitment: referencing

2011-11-04 Thread Charles Matthews
On 3 November 2011 17:56, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote: The thing is that with a better classified backlog you'd get some easier progress. If you Google the topic of these older articles

Re: [WikiEN-l] Newbie recruitment: referencing

2011-11-03 Thread Charles Matthews
On 3 November 2011 11:10, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 9:07 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/wikipedia_is_a_mess_wikipedians_say_1_in_20_articl.php Now, we have a lot of work to do, it's obviously

Re: [WikiEN-l] a formal, structured full-oversight body was Facepalm

2011-10-31 Thread Charles Matthews
On 30 October 2011 11:30, WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@gmail.comwrote: I'm not a big fan of abstract calls for strong leadership, and I genuinely don't see Arbcom as being a disaster - though there could be things it has done that I'm not aware of. That doesn't mean I'm opposed to

Re: [WikiEN-l] So ...

2011-10-12 Thread Charles Matthews
On 11 October 2011 16:41, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: ... written anything good on the encyclopedia lately? [[Jacobus Verheiden]] turned out to be much more rewarding than it promised to, when I just had a name. Spinoff from [[List of participants in the Synod of Dort]], which is a

Re: [WikiEN-l] Readers clicking through to talk pages

2011-10-12 Thread Charles Matthews
On 12 October 2011 18:11, Ian Woollard ian.wooll...@gmail.com wrote: On 12 October 2011 06:56, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote: I agree absolutely that external links and further reading should be used far more than they are. Nah. As in yes, but there's an entire

Re: [WikiEN-l] Academic study: Wikipedia cancer information accurate but hard to read

2011-09-16 Thread Charles Matthews
On 16/09/2011 03:26, Tony Sidaway wrote: It appears that a study by a team at the Medical School at Thomas Jefferson University has found Wikipedia's cancer information to be very accurate and updated more frequently than other sources. Compared to professional sources such as PDQ, however,

Re: [WikiEN-l] JSTOR Early Journal Content access

2011-09-13 Thread Charles Matthews
On 13/09/2011 16:25, Carcharoth wrote: I have bought expensive academic books in the past, but never actual published PhD theses. I would expect someone to rewrite, extend and expand on their PhD thesis to make it suitable for a wider readership before publishing it and expecting people to

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