Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out

Yes, the signal tends to be lost in the noise. Cheers, Peter - Original Message - From: "Kevin Wayne Williams" To: "Wikimedia Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out Op 2013/08/06 13:05, Peter Southwood schre

[Wikimedia-l] A proposal towards a multilingual Wikipedia

I have been thinking about this for a while, and now finally managed to write it down as a proposal. Details are on meta on the following link, below is the intro to the proposal: I tried to anticipate some possible ques

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out

Op 2013/08/06 13:05, Peter Southwood schreef: This is Wikipedia, there are always a small number who make a lot of noise. I think that's part of the problem: any change hits a nerve *somewhere*, so even when it's a real problem, observers are likely to dismiss it as being just more of the sa

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out

To me it looks like a fairly small number of editors are making a fairly large amount of noise, A very small number making a disproportionately large amount, and a much larger number, probably the majority, have not even bothered to comment at all. I also have not analysed the numbers, but to me

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out

I've made no claim about "most" long-term editors, but any perusal of the two RFCs and the Feedback page would demonstrate that there's a fairly large group. Or are you arguing that deploying bug-ridden software that corrupts articles, hangs browsers, crashes unexpectedly, and doesn't have su

Re: [Wikimedia-l] An idea that may improve Wikipedia's fundraising

Matthew Walker wrote: >Technology limitations aside, there are two things we throw around in the >team a lot; that we should not give the impression that a user *must* pay >to use a WMF property, and that we will never ever do gift premiums. Hi Matt. This sounds a bit like "Fundraising principles

Re: [Wikimedia-l] An idea that may improve Wikipedia's fundraising

On 6 August 2013 18:46, Matthew Walker wrote: > In addition what use would giving a donor a DVD set serve? They clearly > already have access to the site -- with the caveat that some countries have > restricted use restrictions from the local government. If instead we are > talking about donating

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Communication plans for community engagement

You argued that a North American bias, or differences between American culture and that of Europe and elsewhere, might be part of the problem in why the VE is getting a backlash on projects for European languages. I'll take on faith that anti-Americanism doesn't explain why you jump to this conclu

Re: [Wikimedia-l] An idea that may improve Wikipedia's fundraising

enwiki-20130708-pages-articles.xml.bz2 9.3 GB - a double sided single layer DVD (9.4gb). The images would be more challenging. On 06/08/2013 17:52, Kevin Wayne Williams wrote: More like a complete set of Wiki

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out

Evidence that most long term editors are frothing at the mouth would be a good start, evidence that the rollout of VE has had a significant impact on long term editor retention, either way, even evidence that WP is in rapid decline that is in any way related to VE, positively or negatively, Che

Re: [Wikimedia-l] An idea that may improve Wikipedia's fundraising

Ziyuan, Thanks for the idea! :) Technology limitations aside, there are two things we throw around in the team a lot; that we should not give the impression that a user *must* pay to use a WMF property, and that we will never ever do gift premiums. From my perspective buying a DVD set sounds sca

Re: [Wikimedia-l] An idea that may improve Wikipedia's fundraising

We did it in the past, https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/DVD Kevin Wayne Williams, 06/08/2013 18:52: Op 2013/08/06 9:40, Ziyuan Yao schreef: The key point in my original idea is that you make buyers believe that they're not just giving money away, but also getting some "solid value" in return. A

Re: [Wikimedia-l] An idea that may improve Wikipedia's fundraising

Op 2013/08/06 9:40, Ziyuan Yao schreef: The key point in my original idea is that you make buyers believe that they're not just giving money away, but also getting some "solid value" in return. A Wikipedia DVD is a kind of "solid value". More like a complete set of Wikipedia Blu-Rays. I forget th

Re: [Wikimedia-l] An idea that may improve Wikipedia's fundraising

The key point in my original idea is that you make buyers believe that they're not just giving money away, but also getting some "solid value" in return. A Wikipedia DVD is a kind of "solid value". On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 12:28 AM, Tobias wrote: > On 08/06/2013 06:01 PM, Ziyuan Yao wrote: > >> De

Re: [Wikimedia-l] An idea that may improve Wikipedia's fundraising

On 08/06/2013 06:01 PM, Ziyuan Yao wrote: Dear All, Besides asking for direct donations, there is another way that can potentially help Wikipedia's fundraising: There was also the idea of having beside the free App an (nearly identical) App-with-donation that is not free but costs a few bucks

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out

Op 2013/08/06 9:07, Peter Southwood schreef: Do you have data to back up your claims? Peter What do you need? Evidence that Wikipedia has survived for years? Evidence that its decline is not so rapid as to indicate an emergency situation? Quotes from Erik where he states that he disrupted Engli

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out

Do you have data to back up your claims? Peter - Original Message - From: "Kevin Wayne Williams" To: "Wikimedia Mailing List" Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out Op 2013/08/05 23:44, MZMcBride schreef: This leaves us to

[Wikimedia-l] An idea that may improve Wikipedia's fundraising

Dear All, Besides asking for direct donations, there is another way that can potentially help Wikipedia's fundraising: Instead of asking for money but offering nothing in return, Wikipedia can ask supporters to buy a monthly or annual issue of "Offline Wikipedia DVD". The DVD contains software an

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out

On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Kevin Wayne Williams < kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com> wrote: > Op 2013/08/06 7:55, Martijn Hoekstra schreef: > >> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Kevin Wayne Williams < >> kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com> wrote: >> >>Their argument for >>> 'opt-out' is based solely upon t

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out

Op 2013/08/06 7:55, Martijn Hoekstra schreef: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Kevin Wayne Williams < kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com> wrote: Their argument for 'opt-out' is based solely upon the quality and quantity of testing that it affords to VE. VE is not a mission-critical feature: while we ha

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out

On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Kevin Wayne Williams < kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com> wrote: > Op 2013/08/05 23:44, MZMcBride schreef: > > This leaves us to consider the biggest question: opt-in vs. opt-out. Erik >> and James are both quite smart, they are true Wikimedians, and they make >> reasonabl

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out

Op 2013/08/05 23:44, MZMcBride schreef: This leaves us to consider the biggest question: opt-in vs. opt-out. Erik and James are both quite smart, they are true Wikimedians, and they make reasonable points about choosing opt-out over opt-in. This is the point on which we fundamentally disagree. T

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out

On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Richard Farmbrough wrote: > Apparently important. I am aware, as probably everyone is, that this is > the first most obvious step to make article editing more accessible, and > address certain inclusiveness goals. I am also aware that there is no data > to suppor

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out

On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:35 PM, MZMcBride wrote: > Todd Allen wrote: > >[comments about VisualEditor] > > Hi Todd. > > Thank you for writing this e-mail. Unfortunately I don't have a > particularly unified reply to write here, but I can offer five thoughts. > > Regarding the specific issue you me

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out

Apparently important. I am aware, as probably everyone is, that this is the first most obvious step to make article editing more accessible, and address certain inclusiveness goals. I am also aware that there is no data to support the theory that a visual editor means more inclusive editing,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WCA Quest for the Cool Name

A reminder that there's still some time to for cross-fertilization of "cool name" ideas, for the artist formerly known as the WCA: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Quest_for_the_Cool_Name Thanks, Richard (User:Pharos) On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Markus Glaser w

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Communication plans for community engagement

Hello Nathan, I have no anti-Americanism, I only notice some differences in the culture how communities from different continents work and to me that is natural. The only thing I say is that an organisation for a worldwide movement should reflect more that diversity. Not only in people, but on

[Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out

I very rarely want to follow up a post to say "yes, this", but I think Max has hit the nail on the head here. One other issue around 'heavy-handed' is that this is in part perception. I didn't feel the deployment heavy-handed, but then it did not cause me more than minor technical annoyance, I had

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out

David Gerard wrote: >That is, the arguments tend towards saying "you can't philosophically >prove there aren't supporters!" This is unconvincing for a number of >reasons. This is lazy, but I'm going to quote myself. --- VisualEditor is a big project that didn't simply happen in a vacuum. The Wiki