Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal regarding norms for meeting/deadline announcements

[Pine W]

Hi  Lodewijk,

I want to encourage people to feel comfortable with posting in-scope and
civil emails to WMF mailing lists, but my personal opinion is that the
number of reminders is sometimes excessive and the related costs are
non-trivial.

My view is that excessive reminders about meetings have recently been
especially afflicting Wikitech-l, but have also taken place on Wikimedia-l
periodically.

If we multiply the quantity of seconds that the average person spends
clicking or scanning through a reminder email by (1) the number of
recipients and (2) the average hourly value of recipients' time, I don't
know what the total costs (in money and time) would be but I think that
they would be non-trivial.

I think that I'm being reasonable in requesting that people make
announcements about most one-time meetings 14 days in advance.

However, I seem to be a minority of one. And speaking of time management,
my guess is that there are hundreds or thousands of other busy people on
these mailing lists who might not appreciate my continuing to press this
subject, so I'm moving on.

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )


On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 11:34 PM effe iets anders 
wrote:

> Hi Pine,
>
> I would also suggest not to get overly bureaucratic with this :) If the
> public meeting you refer to requires a large attendance, the 14 days makes
> sense for example - but I cannot recall many meetings of that style.
> Rather, most meetings are either scheduled taking the availability of
> participants in mind, or it is to get input (where it is more important to
> have a bunch of people show up, than to have everyone participate).
>
> Whether more than one reminder is excessive, is imho quite subjective. I
> appreciate most reminders, especially if they stick to the same thread.
>
> On a side note: are there any weekly meetings being announced on this list?
> Again, it highly depends on the topic, and whether the reminder may also
> contain more information.
>
> My point? Don't worry about it so much :) Be flexible with this, and go
> with the flow. People can figure this out quite well if they use their
> common sense without added bureaucracy.
>
> Lodewijk
>
>
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal regarding norms for meeting/deadline announcements

[effe iets anders]

Hi Pine,

I would also suggest not to get overly bureaucratic with this :) If the
public meeting you refer to requires a large attendance, the 14 days makes
sense for example - but I cannot recall many meetings of that style.
Rather, most meetings are either scheduled taking the availability of
participants in mind, or it is to get input (where it is more important to
have a bunch of people show up, than to have everyone participate).

Whether more than one reminder is excessive, is imho quite subjective. I
appreciate most reminders, especially if they stick to the same thread.

On a side note: are there any weekly meetings being announced on this list?
Again, it highly depends on the topic, and whether the reminder may also
contain more information.

My point? Don't worry about it so much :) Be flexible with this, and go
with the flow. People can figure this out quite well if they use their
common sense without added bureaucracy.

Lodewijk

On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 1:50 PM Pine W  wrote:

> Hi Wikimedia-l and Wikitech-l,
>
> Keeping in mind the large numbers of subscribers on some Wikimedia email
> lists, the endless valuable uses for the time of knowledgeable volunteer
> Wikimedians, the significant financial costs for the time of many of the
> staff and contractors on these mailing lists, and how packed calendars can
> be, I propose that we implement a few social norms/guidelines for
> Wikimedia-l and Wikitech-l in particular.
>
> 1. When planning to have a one-time public meeting, announce it at least 14
> days in advance to give everyone who might like to participate that much
> lead time to clear space on their calendars. Rarely is a one-time public
> meeting so urgent that it cannot wait 14 days from the day that it is
> announced.
>
> 2. Send a maximum of one reminder email regarding a one-time public
> meeting, and also send a maximum of one reminder email regarding events
> with deadlines such as Wikimania scholarship submissions or conference
> presentation proposals. More than one reminder about a meeting or deadline
> is excessive.
>
> 3. If extending a deadline, send only an announcement of the extension with
> no additional reminder.
>
> 4. Send only one email to announce a recurring weekly meeting, with no
> additional reminders. Meetings which recur less often, such as biweekly or
> monthly, may continue to be announced with one additional reminder.
>
> At this time these are proposals only. Comments are welcome. If the
> comments become extensive then I may request that we move the conversation
> to Meta.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to a "Wikimedia Café" casual online meetup

[Pine W]

 Hi folks,

The Wikimedia Café meetup for October will be on October 25. At this meetup
I would like to have a brief discussion about Wikidata's increasingly
prominent role in Wikimedia and in the broader world. If you would like to
participate in the meetup and have another topic in mind for discussion,
that's fine also. Coming to the Café with no topic in mind, or primarily to
listen, is okay too.

As stated previously, I would like for the Café environment to be casual
and low stress for communication and enjoyment. I will not record the
meetup, and I request that others also not record, although people may take
notes. If you are concerned about privacy then you are welcome to disable
your camera and participate by voice only. The meetup will start one hour
before the WMF/Wikimedia Activities Meeting. We will probably meet for 30
to 40 minutes. The Zoom connection information is the same as for the
August meetup (see below) except for the change of date.

If you have questions then you're welcome to email me on-list or off-list.

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )


On Thu, Aug 9, 2018 at 11:15 PM Pine W  wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> Based on comments that I received on Wikimedia-l, I would like to invite
> people to a casual online meetup one hour before the monthly WMF Metrics
> and Activities Meeting.
>
> There will be no set agenda. You can come with questions or ideas that you
> would like to discuss. Please be willing to listen to questions and ideas
> from other Wikimedians.
>
> I will host the meeting with the Zoom software. You can join with software
> or by using your phone. If you join by phone then your phone number will be
> visible to other participants.
>
> The primary language of the meeting will be English, but if people would
> like to communicate in diverse languages then that is okay too. We can
> facilitate translation by text chat. Many Wikimedians, myself included, are
> multilingual in varying degrees, so we might try to have live
> interpretation also.
>
> Here is information about how to connect:
>
> Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android: https://zoom.us/j/136978210
>
> Or iPhone one-tap :
> Argentina: +543415122188,,136978210#
> Or Telephone:
> Dial (for higher quality, dial a number based on your current
> location):
> Argentina: +54 341 512 2188
> Australia: +61 (0) 2 8015 2088  or +61 (0) 8 7150 1149
> Canada: +1 647 558 0588
> Hong Kong, China: +852 5808 6088
> France: +33 (0) 1 8288 0188  or +33 (0) 7 5678 4048
> Germany: +49 (0) 30 3080 6188  or +49 (0) 30 5679 5800
> Israel: +972 (0) 3 978 6688
> Italy: +39 069 480 6488
> Japan: +81 (0) 3 4578 1488  or +81 524 564 439
> Mexico: +52 229 910 0061  or +52 554 161 4288
> Spain: +34 84 368 5025  or +34 91 198 0188
> Sweden: +46 (0) 7 6692 0434  or +46 (0) 8 4468 2488
> Russia: +7 495 283 9788
> United Kingdom: +44 (0) 20 3051 2874  or +44 (0) 20 3695 0088
> US: +1 408 638 0986  or +1 646 558 8665
> Meeting ID: 136 978 210
> International numbers available: https://zoom.us/u/ekaPibJIy
>
> The first "Wikimedia Café" meetup will be on 30 August 2018, at 17:00 UTC
> / 10:00 Pacific.
>
> Let me emphasize that the environment won't be like this
> ,
> so please don't feel intimated if you are nervous about public speaking.
> (If a conversation feels to me like it is becoming uncivil or intimidating,
> then I will ask the debaters to quiet themselves or to move to somewhere
> else.) The meeting will generally have an environment that is more like
> this 
> or this
> .
> I anticipate that few people will come, which is okay. I hope that if you
> come then you will enjoy the environment and conversation.
>
> Until next time,
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,