Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

[Yaroslav Blanter]

I agree that it is completely counterproductive to discuss issues like who
filed the complaint.

What is however important to understand, especially for those who are not
English Wikipedia insiders, is that the reaction which this event caused in
unprecedent. For example, by now 19 active admins resigned the tools over
the incident in two weeks. Depending on the point of view, one can call
this mass protest, or mass madness, or whatever, but this is clearly not an
ordinary run-of-the-mill event. It already lead to a lot of troubles and at
this point is actually dangerous for stability of the Wikimedia universe.

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Sat, Jun 29, 2019 at 9:27 PM Dennis During  wrote:

>  On Sat, Jun 29, 2019, 14:48 Thomas Townsend 
> wrote:
>
>
> Considering that nobody posting  has any information about the
> facts of the case, would it not be better to cease from speculation
> which can have no positive aspects but will certainly be offensive or
> even defamatory to named individuals.
>
> What you recommend is against human nature.  It is natural for one to try
> to anticipate what others might do, especially if it might have
> consequences for oneself.
>
> I'm not looking forward to a wikiworld where judgment and punishment
> rendered in camera by folks whose questionable interpretations of
> platitudinous Missions and Codes is apparently shaped by the values of an
> increasingly intolerant subculture.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

[Dennis During]

 On Sat, Jun 29, 2019, 14:48 Thomas Townsend  wrote:


Considering that nobody posting  has any information about the
facts of the case, would it not be better to cease from speculation
which can have no positive aspects but will certainly be offensive or
even defamatory to named individuals.

What you recommend is against human nature.  It is natural for one to try
to anticipate what others might do, especially if it might have
consequences for oneself.

I'm not looking forward to a wikiworld where judgment and punishment
rendered in camera by folks whose questionable interpretations of
platitudinous Missions and Codes is apparently shaped by the values of an
increasingly intolerant subculture.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

[Thomas Townsend]

Astonishing the amount of speculation on this list about what might
have happened and who might or might not be telling the truth.
Considering that nobody posting here has any information about the
facts of the case, would it not be better to cease from speculation
which can have no positive aspects but will certainly be offensive or
even defamatory to named individuals?

The Turnip

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 13:53, Fæ  wrote:
>
> WMF T will not do anything about off-wiki harassment either, apart
> from banning on-wiki users or offering to block your account as the
> target of harassment.
>
> There's a lot that can be improved around harassment and civility, but
> honestly, the WMF has no special answers or powers, they do not claim
> to be experts. As someone who has had blackmail and death threats,
> advice from the WMF was a lot worse than advice I had from the either
> the police or victim support.
>
> Though my experience is mostly dated, the WMF gave me bad advice which
> significantly delayed me from contacting the police, and I cannot
> recommend that a target of harassment put their faith in the WMF if
> they are targeted with harassment. The only reason I reported some
> nasty transphobic threats targeting me earlier this year was to ensure
> that the WMF had them logged, in case there was a wider pattern of
> abuse against other LGBT+ Wikipedians. WMF T have given me no useful
> feedback or updates on my own case in the months since.
>
> I am very sorry to say this so bluntly, but from personal experience
> though WMF senior management write a lot of nice soft words about
> harassment and safe spaces, in practice a user being targeted is
> better off having private chats on IRC with volunteer stewards and
> checkusers that they trust, rather than WMF employees.
>
> P.S. I encourage the use of the words "target of harassment". Being
> labelled as a "victim" which puts the focus on you just because you
> made a complaint, rather than the troll harassing others, is not
> helpful.
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
>
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 13:29, Isaac Olatunde  wrote:
> >
> > I have seen a known user attacking me on one of Wikipedia's criticism site
> > during my ArbCom case on the English Wikipedia but when it was report, they
> > said there is nothing they can do about off-wiki attacks/harassment. That
> > event alone gives me an impression that the English Wikipedia community
> > cannot protect anyone from off-wiki harassment. Why would people feel
> > comfortable to report a case of harassment to a community or group that can
> > not protect them?
> >
> > Isaac
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 8:33 AM Pine W  >
> > > I think that I understand the GamerGate reference. A decentralized swarm 
> > > of
> > > harassment can be a major problem, and in this case I am concerned (I
> > > haven't attempted to review the evidence) that at least one person is 
> > > being
> > > hounded off-wiki regarding their alleged involvement in this matter in a
> > > way that would receive a firm response by ENWP administrators if the same
> > > hounding was happening on ENWP.
> > >
> > > Fear of being hounded can discourage people from reporting problems.
> > >
> > > On English Wikipedia we have some administrators who are willing to make
> > > politically difficult blocks, and we have an arbitration committee that 
> > > has
> > > been willing to review alleged misconduct by high profile people including
> > > administrators, but I'm not sure that all wikis have a sufficient number 
> > > of
> > > competent and good faith administrators to address allegations of
> > > misconduct, especially misconduct by people who have relatively high 
> > > levels
> > > of local political support.
> > >
> > > Even more challenging to moderate are off-wiki activities in places which
> > > do not honor ENWP norms. I do not know of a robust solution to this
> > > problem, and my guess is that there is no robust solution unless we want
> > > governments to have more ability to proactively filter and to suppress
> > > Internet content that does not meet with their approval.
> > >
> > > I think that ENWP is more like a busy, diverse, and loud public square 
> > > than
> > > a quiet office with tight control of what everyone does and a central
> > > authority that quickly gets rid of people who make statements that are not
> > > acceptable within narrow parameters. I worry that the concept of "safe
> > > spaces" may come to mean something like: "People are only allowed to
> > > participate on Wikimedia sites if they act according to WMF's opinions
> > > regarding politically correct behavior and create content that does not
> > > offend WMF". Political correctness and safety are not characteristics that
> > > I would associate with Wikimedia sites, for better and for worse, and I
> > > think that attempting to create more political correctness and safety can
> > > come at too much expense of honesty, due process, freedom of expression,
> > > and editorial 

[Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Sport 2019

[camelia boban]

Hi all.
One more week left for Wiki Loves Sport
 campaign to write about
(not exclusively) women in sport on Wikipedia where you are all welcomed
. A way to
follow the matches of our national teams and write the missing (female)
biographies on Wikipedia.

Of the total 24 teams

 qualified
 for
the final tournament of FIFA Women World's Cup 2019
 in
France, only 4 teams will continue the competition for the semi-finals and
the final.
On Thursday, England national team beat Norway's 3-1 and yesterday the Unites
States Women's national soccer team

(current
champion) beat France 2-1, both accessing the semifinals. Italy-Netherlands
and Germany-Sweden matches will be held today.

Be bold!

Camelia on behalf of WikiDonne User Group




--
*Camelia Boban*

*| Java EE Developer |*

*Affiliations Committee - **Wikimedia *Foundation
Coordinator - Diversity Working Group for Wikimedia Strategy 2030
Chair & co-founder - WikiDonne User Group *| WikiDonne Project ideator*

*Diversity Space @ Wikimania 2019 Co-Lead*
WMIT - WMSE - WMCH - WMAR Member

M. +39 3383385545
camelia.bo...@gmail.com
*Aissa Technologies* * | *Twitter
 *|* *LinkedIn
*
*Wikipedia  **| **WikiDonne
UG * | *WikiDonne Project
 *
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