Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)
I can agree with the rest but this is interesting: Steve Zhang, 26/05/2013 08:42: [...] Now, the removal of adminship of volunteer editors on the WMF wiki (among other changes) happened for a reason, [...] really? What reason? I've not yet heard an explanation other than "it's our wiki and we do whatever we wish: I'll prove you in a second!". I also agree that judging the decision is useless (it's not going to be reverted) and that it's not our job (the WMF board should do that, I guess), but if you know the reason then please share it because we're all clueless about it. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)
On 26 May 2013 07:35, ENWP Pine wrote: > > Gayle, I am going to be frank. I think I know a little more about you and > your work than the average member of this list does. I appreciate your > explanations and apologies, but I'm continuing to have a hard time with > this situation. With your many years of leadership experience, and in your > position as Chief Culture and Talent Officer, it's shocking that you would > implement such a significant change in the unprofessional way that you did, > and of all people I would have expected you and Philippe (Director of > Community Advocacy) to be acutely aware of our consensus-based culture > and how to implement changes in a diplomatic and professional way. This > situation has been a disaster for WMF-Community relations, and I'm sorry > to say that my feeling is that the credibility of you and Philippe has been > harmed beyond repair. Do you think you should continue to be WMF's > Chief Culture and Talent Officer? I have a hard time believing that you > should continue in that role after this disaster, but I want to hear your > point of view. > > I've thought long and hard about whether to reply here, and I have decided that I will. Our mailing lists too often become an ugly place where the worst of us comes out for all to see. I feel that regarding this matter, some here have stepped over the line. Having your own opinion is fine, as is providing criticism, but attacking others (or in general, saying things that make them feel like crap) is not. As one who has worked to resolve the disputes of others (both on-wiki and in real life) I think it needs to be said that the current tension that has been created needs to dissipate. Now, the removal of adminship of volunteer editors on the WMF wiki (among other changes) happened for a reason, and I'm not going to comment on whether I think it was the right decision to make or not - I'm not qualified to do that. I do think that it could have been carried out in a better fashion, and that if the community was given more notice of the changes, with an explanation of the reasons for making them, then the response from the community would not have been as dramatic. But that said, Gayle has offered her apologies. And I accept them. I think we all should. We have all made mistakes within our time, and we should not be remembered solely by our errors. We need to move on. Remember, we are all working towards the same goal - a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. I would invite all reading this mailing list thread to reflect on what has happened, and the actions you have taken. Think about what you can take away from this, and how you can use the experience to improve yourself. And most importantly, remember that when you send someone an email, a text, a tweet, a talk page message, that there is a real person on the receiving end, and what you say impacts them. If you wouldn't like to be on the receiving end of what you say, consider whether there's a better way to say it, or say nothing at all. I think if we all did this in our day to day lives, they would be much more happy and pleasant ones. Regards, *Steven Zhang* *cro0...@gmail.com* ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)
Benjamin Lees wrote: > The way this whole affair was undertaken was unfortunate, but that can be >smoothed over with apologies. The remaining issue is that the wrong >decision was made, and there's no way to fix that except to reverse the >decision. This. It's not about making a mistake (or even a series of mistakes): that's to be expected by any person doing anything. Making (and learning from) mistakes is part of being human. The relationship here has certainly been damaged, but to move forward, I don't think acknowledging that mistakes were made is sufficient. It's about making things right. It's particularly frustrating that wikis make mistakes very easy to undo and yet somehow that process has completely failed us here. We encourage boldness, as the next steps (a reversion and discussion) are supposed to be easy. I suppose this principle doesn't apply to a wiki coup. MZMcBride ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)
The way this whole affair was undertaken was unfortunate, but that can be smoothed over with apologies. The remaining issue is that the wrong decision was made, and there's no way to fix that except to reverse the decision. On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 5:35 PM, ENWP Pine wrote: > Do you think you should continue to be WMF's > Chief Culture and Talent Officer? I have a hard time believing that you > should continue in that role after this disaster, but I want to hear your > point of view. > > I think this is a little over the top. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)
Wow, I'm on the road, bur suggesting that someone ought to leave after one public error? That's brutal. Hope I never come across you while doing my day job! Cheers, Craig On 26/05/2013 5:35 AM, "ENWP Pine" wrote: > > Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 20:33:57 +0200 > > From: "Federico Leva (Nemo)" > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > Cc: Gayle Karen Young > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and > > other things) > > Message-ID: <519e6115@gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > > > Just in case someone wonders, > > > > Gayle Karen Young, 23/05/2013 06:22: > > > [...] goal was to ensure that the function of a wiki > > > adminstrator, which is often identified with community > self-governance, is > > > clearly mapped against the governance model of the site: [...] [...] > > > > doesn't answers the questions on the table at all. Especially as "the > > governance model of the site" doesn't exist at all and nobody has any > > idea of who is going to take care of it. > > > > Or in other words: > > > > Tomasz W. Kozlowski, 13/05/2013 02:04: > > > Gayle Karen Young wrote: > > > > > >> Hello folks, > > > > > > [...] > > > > > >> Gayle > > > > > > So what did you want to say? I haven't been able to find any answers > to > > > any questions that have been asked by so many people in this thread. > > > > So, to quote yourself, you committed criticism and now you're insisting > > with stonewalling, with a flavour of defensiveness. I admit that my > > knowledge of Gottman is limited to a recent magazine article I read by > > chance a few days ago, so I may be wrong, but it seems to me that > > there's little room to do worse in this relationship. > > > > Nemo > > > > > Nemo, I think someone posted a list of good questions in this thread awhile > back. I tried to find them but I gave up after ten minutes. If you can > find them > would you please repost them? If you can't find them either then I'd ask > you > to repeat the questions that you remember and think are most important. > > Gayle, I am going to be frank. I think I know a little more about you and > your work than the average member of this list does. I appreciate your > explanations and apologies, but I'm continuing to have a hard time with > this situation. With your many years of leadership experience, and in your > position as Chief Culture and Talent Officer, it's shocking that you would > implement such a significant change in the unprofessional way that you did, > and of all people I would have expected you and Philippe (Director of > Community Advocacy) to be acutely aware of our consensus-based culture > and how to implement changes in a diplomatic and professional way. This > situation has been a disaster for WMF-Community relations, and I'm sorry > to say that my feeling is that the credibility of you and Philippe has been > harmed beyond repair. Do you think you should continue to be WMF's > Chief Culture and Talent Officer? I have a hard time believing that you > should continue in that role after this disaster, but I want to hear your > point of view. > > Thanks, > > Pine > > ___ > Wikimedia-l mailing list > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)
Nemo, I think someone posted a list of good questions in this thread awhile back. I tried to find them but I gave up after ten minutes. If you can find them would you please repost them? If you can't find them either then I'd ask you to repeat the questions that you remember and think are most important. Hi Pine, do you mean these: 1) Who made the decision to remove adminship from all community members? 2) Why did you make this decision now? What changed? 3) Who precisely (what department) is responsible for the maintenance of the wiki, and why didn't they perform their roles before? 4) For how long has the decision of removing adminship from those community members been discussed behind the closed door of the WMF, and who participated in that discussion? 5) what measures are to be taken to exclude this in the future, and 6) how can we continue assuming good faith and be nice to each other. I do not recollect any other lists of questions. Cheers Yaroslav ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and other things)
> Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 20:33:57 +0200 > From: "Federico Leva (Nemo)" > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Cc: Gayle Karen Young > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on Admin Rights on WMF Wiki (and > other things) > Message-ID: <519e6115@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > Just in case someone wonders, > > Gayle Karen Young, 23/05/2013 06:22: > > [...] goal was to ensure that the function of a wiki > > adminstrator, which is often identified with community self-governance, is > > clearly mapped against the governance model of the site: [...] [...] > > doesn't answers the questions on the table at all. Especially as "the > governance model of the site" doesn't exist at all and nobody has any > idea of who is going to take care of it. > > Or in other words: > > Tomasz W. Kozlowski, 13/05/2013 02:04: > > Gayle Karen Young wrote: > > > >> Hello folks, > > > > [...] > > > >> Gayle > > > > So what did you want to say? I haven't been able to find any answers to > > any questions that have been asked by so many people in this thread. > > So, to quote yourself, you committed criticism and now you're insisting > with stonewalling, with a flavour of defensiveness. I admit that my > knowledge of Gottman is limited to a recent magazine article I read by > chance a few days ago, so I may be wrong, but it seems to me that > there's little room to do worse in this relationship. > > Nemo > Nemo, I think someone posted a list of good questions in this thread awhile back. I tried to find them but I gave up after ten minutes. If you can find them would you please repost them? If you can't find them either then I'd ask you to repeat the questions that you remember and think are most important. Gayle, I am going to be frank. I think I know a little more about you and your work than the average member of this list does. I appreciate your explanations and apologies, but I'm continuing to have a hard time with this situation. With your many years of leadership experience, and in your position as Chief Culture and Talent Officer, it's shocking that you would implement such a significant change in the unprofessional way that you did, and of all people I would have expected you and Philippe (Director of Community Advocacy) to be acutely aware of our consensus-based culture and how to implement changes in a diplomatic and professional way. This situation has been a disaster for WMF-Community relations, and I'm sorry to say that my feeling is that the credibility of you and Philippe has been harmed beyond repair. Do you think you should continue to be WMF's Chief Culture and Talent Officer? I have a hard time believing that you should continue in that role after this disaster, but I want to hear your point of view. Thanks, Pine ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Quarterly reviews of high priority WMF initiatives
Tilman, Is there a schedule for these reviews on Meta? Also, did Grants have a review recently? Thanks, Pine ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
[Wikimedia-l] Google Planning Wireless Networks To Connect The Next 1B People
@ Mobile team http://readwrite.com/2013/05/24/google-planning-wireless-networks-to-connect-the-next-billion-people http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323975004578503350402434918.html Tom -- Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom) OKFN Brasil - Rede pelo Conhecimento Livre http://br.okfn.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
