Hi,
Thanks for your message. I think it is honest and useful.
2014-09-01 20:40 GMT+05:30 Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org:
...
MV is a perfect example. 99% of the problems it objectively has (we
ignore here matters of taste) derive from the difficulty of parsing the
multitude
tl;dr: We've been collectively whining about templates for long enough. Who
wants to help with fixing them?
In the recent discussions/debacles about technical and stylistic advances,
a recurring theme is that the use of some templates causes major headaches,
and a commonly heard complaint from
On 2 September 2014 10:40, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.com wrote:
All this together is sufficient to assert we have a template problem.
...or to assert that we have a problem with new products being written
that cope well with a theoretical ideal, but not with their real-world
Il 26/08/2014 12:18, Craig Franklin ha scritto:
The editor retention problem will not be solved with technological gizmos
and doodads, nor with top-down solutions imposed from above. It will be
solved with positive human contact and creating a collaborative community
that people actually want
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 5:40 AM, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.com
wrote:
tl;dr: We've been collectively whining about templates for long enough. Who
wants to help with fixing them?
Improving on templates is broadly what I've been doing with my dialog tools
On 09/02/2014 02:52 AM, Yann Forget wrote:
OK, I could buy that [fixing image pages]. But then why not
fixing that *first*, so that
any MV implementation coming afterwards would be smooth?
In the best of worlds, that would have been ideal.
Now, no doubt I'm going to be branded a cynic for
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 1:34 PM, pi zero wn.pi.z...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 5:40 AM, Martijn Hoekstra
martijnhoeks...@gmail.com
wrote:
tl;dr: We've been collectively whining about templates for long enough.
Who
wants to help with fixing them?
Improving on templates is
note this reply is entirely in my personal capacity and in no way
represents anything official
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 5:40 AM, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.com
wrote:
* The mobile skin obfuscates talk page access because the templates
commonly found on talk pages makes them render
I don't think people yell MediaViewer is broken as much as they yell
MediaViewer broke my workflow!. The problem is that no one cares about
some editor's personal workflow, so maybe we should be documenting use
cases that could be used for new old editors and developers alike
On Tue, Sep 2,
I generally agree with your analysis Marc, notwithstanding that there is
blame to share on all sides - not just users who point to broken edge
cases. The (quite predictable) behaviour you mention is why I was quite
fond of the way the usability initiative from several years ago (the team
that
This reply is still my own personal views, and in no way represents
anything official
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.com
wrote:
If we have to resort to such magic to make templates do what we want,
templates are quite simply broken; how can we explain
On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote:
On 01/09/2014, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote:
...
metadata. It's not an argument against MV, it's an argument for getting
rid of the horrid way we handle File: pages with ad-hoc workarounds.
The *correct* solution is
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Brad Jorsch (Anomie) bjor...@wikimedia.org
wrote:
This reply is still my own personal views, and in no way represents
anything official
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Martijn Hoekstra
martijnhoeks...@gmail.com
wrote:
If we have to resort to such magic
On 09/02/2014 10:35 AM, Liam Wyatt wrote:
The key here in my opinion is:
- clear communication about what state constitutes success (e.g. When
80% of people who have opted in have STAYED opted-in)
- clear communication about the progress towards that state (e.g. Showing
the success factor in
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
bjor...@wikimedia.org
wrote:
This reply is still my own personal views, and in no way represents
anything official
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 10:20 AM,
To be clear, ordinary user of the dialog tools most certainly does *not*
involve knowing javascript or Lua or html. The whole point is to arrange
that an ordinary wiki users can do wonderful things using *only wiki markup*.
(The hypothetical example of a url there is, btw, entirely wrong; but one
This reply still isn't anything official, but does represent my own views
as a developer (both volunteer and staff)
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 12:30 PM, pi zero wn.pi.z...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, there is in fact a lisp interpreter written in Lua. It makes up for
some other weaknesses of templates.
Martijn,
First, *thank you* for drafting this -- I believe this is a fundamental
architectural and maintenance issue we need to resolve. It is also a long
term innovation issue -- as it is one of the ways individuals can
participate in extending our user experience.
This would be a great case to
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Brad Jorsch (Anomie) bjor...@wikimedia.org
wrote:
That would take a more detailed look at what is actually trying to be
accomplished with these dialogs. For example, enwiki's Teahouse[1] has a
dialog for newbies to more easily post questions, but it's
Greetings! The Wikimedia Foundation Individual Engagement Grants program is
accepting proposals for funding new experiments from September 1st to 30th.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG
Your idea can improve Wikimedia projects by building a new tool or gadget,
organizing a better process
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Brad Jorsch (Anomie) bjor...@wikimedia.org
wrote:
This reply still isn't anything official, but does represent my own views
as a developer (both volunteer and staff)
Is there an actual problem with Scribunto that drove you to writing this
lisp interpreter,
Dear all,
It is an honour for me to announce that during Wikimania, the WMF
resolved [1] to recognise Wikimedia Belgium as a Wikimedia chapter. The
resolution was made public a few days ago.
The first discussions towards the establishment of a Belgian chapter
started many years ago, with
Congrats to all who were involved in this success :D
--
*Nasir Khan Saikat*
www.nasirkhn.com
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 11:46 PM, Carlos M. Colina ma...@wikimedia.org.ve
wrote:
Dear all,
It is an honour for me to announce that during Wikimania, the WMF resolved
[1] to recognise Wikimedia
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 1:35 PM, pi zero wn.pi.z...@gmail.com wrote:
(1) It's very easy to use.
[...]
(2) it naturally promotes incremental learning.
When it comes to your extremely complicated templates with embedded lisp,
you're losing *both* of these. It's no longer very easy to use
Thanks all!
The next step will be the actual founding. In two days we already have a
meeting to talk about it.
Anyone interested in the founding, you are welcome to sign up at
https://be.wikimedia.org/wiki/Founding/Interested_people
Romaine
2014-09-02 20:00 GMT+02:00 Nasir Khan
On 2 September 2014 17:41, Brad Jorsch (Anomie) bjor...@wikimedia.org wrote:
This reply still isn't anything official, but does represent
my own views as a developer (both volunteer and staff)
Speaking generally, rather than about the specific issue at hand, I'm
not sure how we can distinguish
On 09/02/2014 01:35 PM, pi zero wrote:
(1) It's very easy to use.
(2) it naturally promotes incremental learning.
I'm sorry, but both of those assertions are not only wrong, but
profoundly misguided.
Wikimarkup, and templates, are /relatively/ easy to use for someone who
has at least a
Pardon my long reply; I actually meant to just comment on a couple of
things, and got carried away. But I really do find this topic very
interesting.
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Brad Jorsch (Anomie) bjor...@wikimedia.org
wrote:
When it comes to your extremely complicated templates with
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote:
On 09/02/2014 01:35 PM, pi zero wrote:
(1) It's very easy to use.
(2) it naturally promotes incremental learning.
I'm sorry, but both of those assertions are not only wrong, but
profoundly misguided.
At first I
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 2:07 PM, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks all!
The next step will be the actual founding. In two days we already have a
meeting to talk about it.
Anyone interested in the founding, you are welcome to sign up at
Hi Martijn. Thanks for starting this thread.
Martijn Hoekstra [roughly] wrote:
* Catalog the problems with [dev issue]. Make a comprehensive list that
enumerates the problems with [dev issue] we have now, categorise the
problems (right now I'm roughly thinking in style, wikitext parsing
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