Re: [Wikimedia-l] Greener travel and the ethics of carbon offset for Wikimedia community events

[Fæ]

Lots of good suggestions. Thanks for the feedback.

Calculating the amount of travel by flight and train for a conference
is not a lot of extra bureaucracy if the estimated distance made part
of documenting the grants and expense claims. Playing around with some
calculations of my own, it makes sense that rather than expecting
individual participants to add carbon offsetting to their personal
costs, we instead plan as a group to make a single donation to a
credible project. This might even be something that a large affiliate
like WMDE or the WMF might consider rolling up and managing.
Especially for shorter flights (like 500 km round trips), the
administrative cost as part of the donation works out as much as the
amount that would go to the end project, so a single large payment
would make far more sense than at the individual level.

Regardless of exactly how carbon offsetting might be arranged, it
would be great it the proposed LGBT+ conference in 2020  reports the
total travel figure, as part of the conference's aim to minimize our
carbon footprint. If a matching payment to a carbon offset project is
between 2% to 5% of the travel grants paid out, that seems entirely
manageable as part of being responsible global citizens (thanks for
that phrase!).

The separate issue of ensuring virtual engagement, such as catering
for remote presentations, is a critical way of both reducing carbon
footprint and allowing access for folks or organizations that have
difficulty travelling long distance, wish to minimize their personal
carbon footprint, or wish to participate but are unable to commit to
devoting several days full time. WM-LGBT+ has been successfully using
Zoom open source videoconferencing with participants in several
countries at the same time, and with the launch of Facebook Horizon in
2020, this particular conference might be a well timed opportunity to
set up a VR space to the benefit of the planned workshop discussions
in a far more engaging way than passive videocasting of presentations
allows. Who knows, maybe Facebook might loan us some headsets? ;-)

If folks want to continue to chip in with suggestions for the
conference, the WM-LGBT+ user group talk page on meta is worth
watching, and there are several other communication channels linked
there if you prefer direct messaging or tweets. See
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT+/Portal

Thanks,
Fae
-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 at 16:53, Bence Damokos  wrote:
>
> The price really depends on the project selected and can vary from less
> than a dollar to close to $20 per tonne, and the cheaper projects do not
> necessarily have less of an impact (more likely they have fewer levels of
> independent verification).
>
> Do note that apart from the company recommended on the Wikimania wiki,
> there are other options out there. For example, on the UNFCCC portal you
> will find many in even under the $1/tonne range:
> https://offset.climateneutralnow.org/allprojects if you check the
> individual projects, there is quite a lot of detail and documentation
> included to be able to have confidence that the money goes to the correct
> place.
> The ones that come with further certification can cost more of course, with
> the projects on the Gold Standard website being on the $10-15/tonne price
> range (they have a "basket" of projects option at $11[1]), and Terrapass
> chosen by the organisers of Wikmania also seem to be around the $9 mark
> (they count in pounds for some reason on their website).
>
> For personal offsetting I am quite happy to go by the UN site and I think
> that is a good start to starting offsetting if one did not do it before. If
> one has more resources or time, they can spend it on selecting projects
> that meet their specific criteria (for example, social impacts beyond
> climate impacts, projects in specific geographic regions, or an extra level
> of certification) taking into account the extra cost.
>
> Best regards,
> Bence
>
>
> [1] https://www.goldstandard.org/take-action/offset-your-emissions,
> https://www.goldstandard.org/projects/climate-portfolio-variety-projects
>
>
> On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 at 17:24, Osmar Valdebenito 
> wrote:
>
> > Maybe it's cheap... for European participants in a conference.
> > People coming from developing nations tend to live further and require
> > longer trips to participate in events and conference, mostly hosted in
> > Europe or the US.
> > So, not only you are asking us to spend larger hours on flights but also
> > pay (or make someone else pay more) for it.
> > I calculated how much carbon offset costed for my Wikimania travel, using
> > the websites offered at the WM wiki, and it wasn't 1 or 2 usd. It was 107
> > euros, around 10% or more of the cost of the trip.
> > I'm all for making a greener Wikimedia movement, but we should do it not
> > affecting those that, supposedly, we want to include more in our movement.
> >
> > El sáb., 12 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Greener travel and the ethics of carbon offset for Wikimedia community events

[Bence Damokos]

The price really depends on the project selected and can vary from less
than a dollar to close to $20 per tonne, and the cheaper projects do not
necessarily have less of an impact (more likely they have fewer levels of
independent verification).

Do note that apart from the company recommended on the Wikimania wiki,
there are other options out there. For example, on the UNFCCC portal you
will find many in even under the $1/tonne range:
https://offset.climateneutralnow.org/allprojects if you check the
individual projects, there is quite a lot of detail and documentation
included to be able to have confidence that the money goes to the correct
place.
The ones that come with further certification can cost more of course, with
the projects on the Gold Standard website being on the $10-15/tonne price
range (they have a "basket" of projects option at $11[1]), and Terrapass
chosen by the organisers of Wikmania also seem to be around the $9 mark
(they count in pounds for some reason on their website).

For personal offsetting I am quite happy to go by the UN site and I think
that is a good start to starting offsetting if one did not do it before. If
one has more resources or time, they can spend it on selecting projects
that meet their specific criteria (for example, social impacts beyond
climate impacts, projects in specific geographic regions, or an extra level
of certification) taking into account the extra cost.

Best regards,
Bence


[1] https://www.goldstandard.org/take-action/offset-your-emissions,
https://www.goldstandard.org/projects/climate-portfolio-variety-projects


On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 at 17:24, Osmar Valdebenito 
wrote:

> Maybe it's cheap... for European participants in a conference.
> People coming from developing nations tend to live further and require
> longer trips to participate in events and conference, mostly hosted in
> Europe or the US.
> So, not only you are asking us to spend larger hours on flights but also
> pay (or make someone else pay more) for it.
> I calculated how much carbon offset costed for my Wikimania travel, using
> the websites offered at the WM wiki, and it wasn't 1 or 2 usd. It was 107
> euros, around 10% or more of the cost of the trip.
> I'm all for making a greener Wikimedia movement, but we should do it not
> affecting those that, supposedly, we want to include more in our movement.
>
> El sáb., 12 de oct. de 2019 a la(s) 11:27, Andrea Zanni (
> zanni.andre...@gmail.com) escribió:
>
> > I agree with Bence.
> > Right now, offsetting is cheap, likely 1-2 percentage points of the cost
> of
> > travel.
> > Those money could be asked directly in the grant to the WMF, for example,
> > because offsetting several tonnes in bulk is probably cheaper than doing
> it
> > person by person.
> >
> > But carbon offsetting is just one strategy. Those money could be also
> > invested in charities that conserve rainforest (and thus native people,
> and
> > thus native culture > perfectly aligned with Wikimedia goals), or manage
> to
> > plant new trees and forests.
> >
> > I know for sure that Wikimedia Deutschland has contacts with Ecosia¹, a
> > search engine that plant trees with revenue from web ads. There are
> surely
> > ways we could partner with them in reforestation projects, or other.  And
> > they surely know a lot more than us about carbon offsetting, so we could
> > just ask for suggestions.
> >
> > ¹ https://www.ecosia.org/
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 10:00 AM Henry Wood 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > > Paying for carbon offsets does not further Wikimedia’s goals.
> > >
> > > Not directly, any more than paying for petrol or aviation fuel does.
> > > If you regard it as part of the cost of travel, and that travel does
> > > indeed further the Foundation's goals, then it seems reasonable to pay
> > > for it.
> > >
> > > Henry
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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> > > 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Greener travel and the ethics of carbon offset for Wikimedia community events

[Osmar Valdebenito]

Maybe it's cheap... for European participants in a conference.
People coming from developing nations tend to live further and require
longer trips to participate in events and conference, mostly hosted in
Europe or the US.
So, not only you are asking us to spend larger hours on flights but also
pay (or make someone else pay more) for it.
I calculated how much carbon offset costed for my Wikimania travel, using
the websites offered at the WM wiki, and it wasn't 1 or 2 usd. It was 107
euros, around 10% or more of the cost of the trip.
I'm all for making a greener Wikimedia movement, but we should do it not
affecting those that, supposedly, we want to include more in our movement.

El sáb., 12 de oct. de 2019 a la(s) 11:27, Andrea Zanni (
zanni.andre...@gmail.com) escribió:

> I agree with Bence.
> Right now, offsetting is cheap, likely 1-2 percentage points of the cost of
> travel.
> Those money could be asked directly in the grant to the WMF, for example,
> because offsetting several tonnes in bulk is probably cheaper than doing it
> person by person.
>
> But carbon offsetting is just one strategy. Those money could be also
> invested in charities that conserve rainforest (and thus native people, and
> thus native culture > perfectly aligned with Wikimedia goals), or manage to
> plant new trees and forests.
>
> I know for sure that Wikimedia Deutschland has contacts with Ecosia¹, a
> search engine that plant trees with revenue from web ads. There are surely
> ways we could partner with them in reforestation projects, or other.  And
> they surely know a lot more than us about carbon offsetting, so we could
> just ask for suggestions.
>
> ¹ https://www.ecosia.org/
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 10:00 AM Henry Wood 
> wrote:
>
> > Mike
> >
> > > Paying for carbon offsets does not further Wikimedia’s goals.
> >
> > Not directly, any more than paying for petrol or aviation fuel does.
> > If you regard it as part of the cost of travel, and that travel does
> > indeed further the Foundation's goals, then it seems reasonable to pay
> > for it.
> >
> > Henry
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
___
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