Re: [Wikimedia-l] SEEKING A WIKIPEDIAN IN RESIDENCE! (U.S.)

[Michael Peel]

> This position can only be based
> remotely from the following states: CA, OR, OH, NV, NC, WA, WI, CO, MA, PA,
> NY, HI, or MT.
> 
> PLEASE APPLY!

You might have a slight mismatch between the audience that reads this mailing 
list, and your rather arbitrary geographic location requirement. Perhaps 
consider changing one of them?

Thanks,
Mike


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] SEEKING A WIKIPEDIAN IN RESIDENCE! (U.S.)

[Pine W]

Hi Jake,

Thanks for the news. I am glad that there will be another opportunity
for a Wikimedian in Residence.

However, I request that none of us use all caps in subjects on the
mailing lists, and that we be very limited in our use of tags such as
"important". There is a large volume of information that comes through
email, and threads that seem important to one subset of people may not
be important to other subsets of people. Two tags that I'm somewhat
okay with are (1) "time sensitive", although in practice what I often
find that "time sensitive" means is "I, the sender, am late in sending
this email and am requesting that other people hurry because I am
late", and (2) "breaking change", which I occasionally see on
technical mailing lists.

I hope that this makes sense.

Thank you,

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )

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[Wikimedia-l] U.S. Policy Comment Period for Open Access [important]

[Jake Orlowitz]

Hi all,

Amazingly, the U.S. science and technology policy office is considering
making *all* publicly funded research *open access*.

If you are a U.S. citizen, PLEASE comment by March 16th.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/02/19/2020-03189/request-for-information-public-access-to-peer-reviewed-scholarly-publications-data-and-code

Cheers,

Jake Orlowitz
*Founder of The Wikipedia Library*
*Seeker of well people and sane societies*
  kickstarter: bit.ly/CircleKickstarter
  me: jakeorlowitz.com
  mail: jorlow...@gmail.com
  media: @jakeorlowitz 
  book: welcometothecircle.net
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[Wikimedia-l] SEEKING A WIKIPEDIAN IN RESIDENCE! (U.S.)

[Jake Orlowitz]

Hi all,

Annual Reviews, an independent, nonprofit scholarly research publisher,
seeks an enthusiastic Wikipedian-in-Residence (WIR).

The aim of this role is to improve Wikipedia’s coverage of the sciences by
citing expert articles from Annual Reviews’ journals. The WIR will engage
with Wikipedia editors across life, biomedical, physical, and social
science articles and WikiProjects to help ensure responsible and valuable
expansion of content.

This is a temporary position for 10 hours/week, paid at $30/hour USD, and
is anticipated to last for up to 1 year. This position can only be based
remotely from the following states: CA, OR, OH, NV, NC, WA, WI, CO, MA, PA,
NY, HI, or MT.

PLEASE APPLY!
https://annualreviewsnews.org/2020/02/25/seeking-a-wikipedian-in-residence/

Cheers,

Jake Orlowitz
*Founder of The Wikipedia Library*
*Seeker of well people and sane societies*
  kickstarter: bit.ly/CircleKickstarter
  me: jakeorlowitz.com
  mail: jorlow...@gmail.com
  media: @jakeorlowitz 
  book: welcometothecircle.net
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects

[Fæ]

This is a slight tangent, but please let's be slightly more precise
with wording about what free media content Wikimedia Commons
legitimately hosts.

The scope of Wikimedia Commons is to host all free media with any
rationale for "reasonable educational reuse".[1] The vast majority of
content never will be used on any other sister Wikimedia project. This
means:
* "Reasonable" in a very wide sense, including cultural value,
historical value, illustrative use. So some random modern photograph
of a couple kissing in the street might be out of scope, but if the
photograph was taken 80 years ago, then it has historic value, or if
the photograph was at a pride march, then it probably has cultural and
illustrative value.
* "Reuse" is anywhere and "educational" is subject to generous and
very wide interpretations of potential value. This means media that
someone would find quite interesting for illustrating a school
project, or as a pretty screensaver on their phone, or because it's
something illustrative about cats to post on Twitter.

Consequently, Wikimedia Commons is *not* limited to what might be
"notable" for an encyclopaedia, so there is no automatic deletion for
yet another photograph of someone's breakfast, nor even for a selfie
photo, so long as there can be a case made by anyone for reasonable
reuse.

The only areas where additional guidelines often lead to deletions
(and difficult deletion discussion), is for media with demonstrated
issues of invasion of privacy or consent,[2] apparent harassment, or a
not very special photo of private parts[3] of a specific type for
which we happen to have plenty to choose from already. Lastly,
policies do evolve, albeit very slowly, and no local policy overrides
the WMF top-level policies such as on privacy or harassment.

This tangent was not about copyright, so before anyone points it out,
"free media" has a quite specific definition at
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Licensing. But that's a
rabbit-hole of its own.

Links
1. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Project_scope
2. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Photographs_of_identifiable_people
3. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Nudity#New_uploads

Fae

On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 08:56, Gerard Meijssen  wrote:
>
> Hoi,
> Commons is a project with a specific purpose. It is to host all media that
> fits the use of any other project. As it is English Wikipedia notability
> standards are used to justify why files are not to be kept on Commons. This
> is contrary to its very purpose, it is not acceptable and it is not for the
> Commons community to decide otherwise.
>
> When at OTRS a license is given for the unfettered use of media respecting
> an approved license, there is no argument, no rule inside OTRS itself that
> is applicable particularly when that media is explicitly asked for on
> another project.
> Thanks,
>Gerard
>
> On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 09:39, Gnangarra  wrote:
>
> > Scope is a Commons community decision,
> > OTRS is solely about licensing
> >
> > On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 15:30, Gerard Meijssen 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hoi,
> > > No it is an administrative process. It follows its own rules IN ORDER TO
> > do
> > > what it does. The notion that material is to be useful to Wikipedia is
> > NOT
> > > covered by any legal restraints. This notion that is alive and well, the
> > > notion that copyright can be retroactively applied never mind the
> > original
> > > copyright holder is that as well.
> > >
> > > Yes, the underlying work is legal, the process is definitely not and
> > > consequently the process has to be revisited, is to be revisited in order
> > > for OTRS to function for all of us.
> > > Thanks,
> > > GerardM
> > >
> > > On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 08:09, Gnangarra  wrote:
> > >
> > > > to quote Gerard
> > > >
> > > > There is no law that insists on the existing rules and regulations as
> > put
> > > > > forward, rules and regulations that are blatantly unfit
> > > >
> > > > for purpose.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > OTRS is very much a legal process because its related to Copyright
> > laws,
> > > > both in the US and in the country in which they reside.  Every
> > > > transaction(image upload) is a person giving away their rights in
> > regards
> > > > to that work OTRS needs to ensure that the person is fully aware of the
> > > > consequences of that action.  OTRS holds an absolute record of that
> > > action
> > > > of when it took place, it protects all parties should there be an issue
> > > in
> > > > the future in particular the WMF and our volunteers who were involved
> > in
> > > > the process.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 13:57, Gerard Meijssen <
> > gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hoi,
> > > > > Thank you for demonstrating the extend OTRS is not fit for purpose. I
> > > > > understand that OTRS is governed by rules and regulations but a
> > > reference
> > > > > is made to "legal". There is no law that insi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects

[Gnangarra]

Lets move this along towards a solution;

Maybe the simplest solution is to create a delinker type bot that flags
images which were used on Wikidata but the data item has since been deleted
thus flagging the file for review on Commons.

This addresses the concerns over spam Wikidata id's being created to enable
an image to be uploaded.

WD and Commons community could both request that the person emailing OTRS
with permission identifies the WikiData item its intended for.  Every image
were permission is being received it should have an association with a
WikiData item as its necessary  to fill in the structured data field
anyway.



On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 21:41, Samuel Klein  wrote:

> Thanks for this clarity Paulo.
> Is there a way to move more of the underlying policies onto a public wiki
> rather than a closed one, to limit some of this confusion?
>
> 🌍🌏🌎🌑
>
> On Wed., Feb. 26, 2020, 5:36 a.m. Paulo Santos Perneta, <
> paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The OP is misleading. The issue is not with Commons at all, but with
> OTRS.
> > As far as I know, Commons never, ever, deleted a file which was in use in
> > any Wikimedia project, with the notable expectation of copyvios.
> Otherwise,
> > use in *any* wikimedia project = on scope for Commons.
> >
> > Apparently some OTRS volunteers follow some outdated procedures -
> including
> > that one related to selfies, which was mentioned - but that is a problem
> > exclusively with OTRS. I'm part of that team, and I always had the
> freedom
> > to decide which looked like a genuine selfie, and which was problematic
> at
> > that (e.g., with a copyright notice at the metadata). And, as far as I
> > know, anyone willing to help fixing those problems at OTRS is very much
> > welcome there. When the volunteers are very few, and the ones complaining
> > do not volunteer themselves, it only adds up to the pressure on the few
> > existing volunteers, making everything worse.
> >
> > Best,
> > Paulo
> >
> > Peter Southwood  escreveu no dia quarta,
> > 26/02/2020 à(s) 06:04:
> >
> > > This does seem unreasonable. Do they have an explanation at Commons?
> > > This is happening without standardising in one label Wikipedia, so it
> is
> > > jumping to quite a conclusion to assume that the issue is related.
> > > For the record, I am also opposed to rebranding to Wikipedia, but I do
> > not
> > > think this issue is necessarily related.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 6:10 PM
> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on
> > other
> > > projects
> > >
> > > Hoi,
> > > Apparantly at Commons they have standardised themselves to only support
> > > Wikipedia.
> > >
> > > At Wikidata we have people who are notable according to our standards.
> We
> > > are actively asking them for images to illustrate our information. The
> > best
> > > suggestion we get is: do not ask for images because they are deleted at
> > > Commons.
> > >
> > > When this is what awaits us when we standardise on one label Wikipedia,
> > it
> > > is obvious that this is the worst scenario for the "other" projects.
> The
> > > projects who operate to different standards who have notability
> criteria
> > > different from English Wikipedia.
> > > Thanks,
> > >   GerardM
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects

[Samuel Klein]

Thanks for this clarity Paulo.
Is there a way to move more of the underlying policies onto a public wiki
rather than a closed one, to limit some of this confusion?

🌍🌏🌎🌑

On Wed., Feb. 26, 2020, 5:36 a.m. Paulo Santos Perneta, <
paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The OP is misleading. The issue is not with Commons at all, but with OTRS.
> As far as I know, Commons never, ever, deleted a file which was in use in
> any Wikimedia project, with the notable expectation of copyvios. Otherwise,
> use in *any* wikimedia project = on scope for Commons.
>
> Apparently some OTRS volunteers follow some outdated procedures - including
> that one related to selfies, which was mentioned - but that is a problem
> exclusively with OTRS. I'm part of that team, and I always had the freedom
> to decide which looked like a genuine selfie, and which was problematic at
> that (e.g., with a copyright notice at the metadata). And, as far as I
> know, anyone willing to help fixing those problems at OTRS is very much
> welcome there. When the volunteers are very few, and the ones complaining
> do not volunteer themselves, it only adds up to the pressure on the few
> existing volunteers, making everything worse.
>
> Best,
> Paulo
>
> Peter Southwood  escreveu no dia quarta,
> 26/02/2020 à(s) 06:04:
>
> > This does seem unreasonable. Do they have an explanation at Commons?
> > This is happening without standardising in one label Wikipedia, so it is
> > jumping to quite a conclusion to assume that the issue is related.
> > For the record, I am also opposed to rebranding to Wikipedia, but I do
> not
> > think this issue is necessarily related.
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 6:10 PM
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on
> other
> > projects
> >
> > Hoi,
> > Apparantly at Commons they have standardised themselves to only support
> > Wikipedia.
> >
> > At Wikidata we have people who are notable according to our standards. We
> > are actively asking them for images to illustrate our information. The
> best
> > suggestion we get is: do not ask for images because they are deleted at
> > Commons.
> >
> > When this is what awaits us when we standardise on one label Wikipedia,
> it
> > is obvious that this is the worst scenario for the "other" projects. The
> > projects who operate to different standards who have notability criteria
> > different from English Wikipedia.
> > Thanks,
> >   GerardM
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] 2020 Wikimania Scholarships now open

[Ciell Wikipedia]

Thank you for your response!

Ciell

Op wo 26 feb. 2020 12:32 schreef Gnangarra :

> Hi Ciell
>
> ESEAP team and the WMF are meeting later this week with discussion on this
> very issue on the agenda. As it stands we have been following the changes
> and recommendations of many countries in relation to travel to Thailand and
> Bangkok.  The WMF  team is also following developments, as you can imagine
> its a very dynamic situation.  At this stage we are continuing the
> scholarship application process because there isnt the time frame necessary
> to delay while waiting for further developments occur so we can more
> assured of the necessary measures that will need to be taken.
>
> For people who dont get scholarships, or are already planning to fund their
> own travel there for once waiting is becoming an advantage as the cost of
> travel is dropping and there will be incentives to encourage people to
> travel.   Anyone making bookings I recommend you obtain insurance that
> covers you for all eventualities especially scenarios related to the virus.
>
> Community safety is at the absolute forefront of our plans and concerns.
>
> Regards
>
> On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 19:05, Ciell Wikipedia 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Gnangarra,
> >
> > With the Corona virus spreading rapidly around the world: can you tell me
> > (us) something about the scenario for Wikimania when the virus would
> still
> > be heavily active in August?
> > People might want to wait a bit longer before applying, or maybe want to
> > know more about cancelling their travels after they have confirmed the
> > scholarship. Will this be possible?
> >
> > Vriendelijke groet,
> > Ciell
> >
> >
> > Op do 20 feb. 2020 om 21:46 schreef Gnangarra :
> >
> > > Wikimania is fast approaching, this year it'll be held in Bangkok and
> as
> > > always the Wikimedia Foundation has a limited number of opportunities
> to
> > > assist people to attend. There are two types of scholarships the first
> > > being a full scholarship which covers, travel, accommodation, and
> > > registration, the second a  partial scholarship that covers
> accommodation
> > > and registration.
> > >
> > > This year for the first time East, South East Asia, and Pacific
> (ESEAP)
> > as
> > > collaboration between the region we'll be your host for Wikimania.  The
> > > region has placed a high importance on collaboration and knowledge
> > sharing
> > > this years Wikimania program will reflect that. Our theme is;
> > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> > >
> > > How does this impact on scholarship? ESEAP is looking for people who
> are
> > > prepared to share their knowledge to help develop potential future
> > > leaders.  We'll be looking for two broad areas of contributions, from
> > those
> > > who have successfully developed programs, and those  newer contributors
> > who
> > > want to develop their skills to do more but have never been to a
> > Wikimania
> > > to broaden their support networks.
> > >
> > > As you apply please agree to share your details with the local
> affiliate
> > > should they also have scholarships available. When answering questions
> if
> > > you have urls to reports, dashboards, and events reports please provide
> > > them. Rather than writing lots of words again have your past recordings
> > > speak.
> > >
> > > On behalf of ESEAP community, and the Scholarship committee we look
> > forward
> > > to seeing you in Bangkok in August.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Gnangarra
> > > Wikimania Scholarship committee Co-chair
> > >
> > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> > > Wikimania Bangkok 2020
> > > August 5 to 9
> > > hosted by ESEAP
> > >
> > > Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
>
>
> --
> GN.
>
> *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> Wikimania Bangkok 2020
> August 5 to 9
> hosted by ESEAP
>
> Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> Noongarp

Re: [Wikimedia-l] 2020 Wikimania Scholarships now open

[Gnangarra]

Hi Ciell

ESEAP team and the WMF are meeting later this week with discussion on this
very issue on the agenda. As it stands we have been following the changes
and recommendations of many countries in relation to travel to Thailand and
Bangkok.  The WMF  team is also following developments, as you can imagine
its a very dynamic situation.  At this stage we are continuing the
scholarship application process because there isnt the time frame necessary
to delay while waiting for further developments occur so we can more
assured of the necessary measures that will need to be taken.

For people who dont get scholarships, or are already planning to fund their
own travel there for once waiting is becoming an advantage as the cost of
travel is dropping and there will be incentives to encourage people to
travel.   Anyone making bookings I recommend you obtain insurance that
covers you for all eventualities especially scenarios related to the virus.

Community safety is at the absolute forefront of our plans and concerns.

Regards

On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 19:05, Ciell Wikipedia 
wrote:

> Hi Gnangarra,
>
> With the Corona virus spreading rapidly around the world: can you tell me
> (us) something about the scenario for Wikimania when the virus would still
> be heavily active in August?
> People might want to wait a bit longer before applying, or maybe want to
> know more about cancelling their travels after they have confirmed the
> scholarship. Will this be possible?
>
> Vriendelijke groet,
> Ciell
>
>
> Op do 20 feb. 2020 om 21:46 schreef Gnangarra :
>
> > Wikimania is fast approaching, this year it'll be held in Bangkok and as
> > always the Wikimedia Foundation has a limited number of opportunities to
> > assist people to attend. There are two types of scholarships the first
> > being a full scholarship which covers, travel, accommodation, and
> > registration, the second a  partial scholarship that covers accommodation
> > and registration.
> >
> > This year for the first time East, South East Asia, and Pacific  (ESEAP)
> as
> > collaboration between the region we'll be your host for Wikimania.  The
> > region has placed a high importance on collaboration and knowledge
> sharing
> > this years Wikimania program will reflect that. Our theme is;
> > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> >
> > How does this impact on scholarship? ESEAP is looking for people who are
> > prepared to share their knowledge to help develop potential future
> > leaders.  We'll be looking for two broad areas of contributions, from
> those
> > who have successfully developed programs, and those  newer contributors
> who
> > want to develop their skills to do more but have never been to a
> Wikimania
> > to broaden their support networks.
> >
> > As you apply please agree to share your details with the local affiliate
> > should they also have scholarships available. When answering questions if
> > you have urls to reports, dashboards, and events reports please provide
> > them. Rather than writing lots of words again have your past recordings
> > speak.
> >
> > On behalf of ESEAP community, and the Scholarship committee we look
> forward
> > to seeing you in Bangkok in August.
> >
> > --
> > Gnangarra
> > Wikimania Scholarship committee Co-chair
> >
> > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> > Wikimania Bangkok 2020
> > August 5 to 9
> > hosted by ESEAP
> >
> > Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Treatment of newbies with mild CoI

[Vi to]

Not really, drawing practical advices/lessons (e.g. "differentiate among
kinds of COIs") is the only sensible path towards solving issues.
"Let's be kind" is close to a tautology.

Vito

Il giorno mer 26 feb 2020 alle ore 09:59 Andy Mabbett <
a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk> ha scritto:

> On Tue, 25 Feb 2020 at 20:36, Vi to  wrote:
> >
> > Hard to tell anything without the relevant link(s).
>
> For you, maybe. Others have already given helpful replies.
>
> My question was generic, and not about the specific case I gave as an
> example.
>
> I chose not to post links to to the example, both in order to avoid a
> pile-on, and to avoid us being distracted by the minutiae of the
> incident concerned.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] 2020 Wikimania Scholarships now open

[Ciell Wikipedia]

Hi Gnangarra,

With the Corona virus spreading rapidly around the world: can you tell me
(us) something about the scenario for Wikimania when the virus would still
be heavily active in August?
People might want to wait a bit longer before applying, or maybe want to
know more about cancelling their travels after they have confirmed the
scholarship. Will this be possible?

Vriendelijke groet,
Ciell


Op do 20 feb. 2020 om 21:46 schreef Gnangarra :

> Wikimania is fast approaching, this year it'll be held in Bangkok and as
> always the Wikimedia Foundation has a limited number of opportunities to
> assist people to attend. There are two types of scholarships the first
> being a full scholarship which covers, travel, accommodation, and
> registration, the second a  partial scholarship that covers accommodation
> and registration.
>
> This year for the first time East, South East Asia, and Pacific  (ESEAP) as
> collaboration between the region we'll be your host for Wikimania.  The
> region has placed a high importance on collaboration and knowledge sharing
> this years Wikimania program will reflect that. Our theme is;
> *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
>
> How does this impact on scholarship? ESEAP is looking for people who are
> prepared to share their knowledge to help develop potential future
> leaders.  We'll be looking for two broad areas of contributions, from those
> who have successfully developed programs, and those  newer contributors who
> want to develop their skills to do more but have never been to a Wikimania
> to broaden their support networks.
>
> As you apply please agree to share your details with the local affiliate
> should they also have scholarships available. When answering questions if
> you have urls to reports, dashboards, and events reports please provide
> them. Rather than writing lots of words again have your past recordings
> speak.
>
> On behalf of ESEAP community, and the Scholarship committee we look forward
> to seeing you in Bangkok in August.
>
> --
> Gnangarra
> Wikimania Scholarship committee Co-chair
>
> *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> Wikimania Bangkok 2020
> August 5 to 9
> hosted by ESEAP
>
> Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Treatment of newbies with mild CoI

[Anders Wennersten]

In our case the a few volunteers running (organizing) edit-a-thons, met 
with a few key persons who patrollers to discuss the dilemma. And so 
changes and new variants for the patrollers work were introduced, at the 
same time as the introduction to newbees by  volunteers was somewhat 
changed.


These small changes helped a lot (but not 100%)

Anders



Den 2020-02-26 kl. 11:33, skrev Camelia Boban:

This is not an accusation email to see who is the culprit, but rather a
discussion to see what can be done to improve, since we have a very big
problem of retention and loss of users.

Camelia


--
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*| Java EE Developer |*



*Affiliations Committee - **Wikimedia Foundation*
Diversity WG for Wikimedia Strategy 2030
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 | **Wiki
Loves Sport  | Wiki Loves
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 - WMAR
 - WMCH
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Il giorno gio 20 feb 2020 alle ore 02:50 Samuel Klein 
ha scritto:


It would be nice to have a tool for long standing editors to clean up a
newbies talk page for them, leave messages for the overeager templaters,
and help them out / welcome them in untemolsted language.

Then a little ML could go a long way in guessing which newbies are in this
situation and generating a queue for newbie-care. ~~~

🌍🌏🌎🌑

On Wed., Feb. 19, 2020, 4:35 p.m. Andy Mabbett, 
I have just come across a case on en.Wikipedia where the daughter of
an article subject added details of his funeral (his death in 1984,w
as already recorded) and his view about an indent in his life.

Her six sequential edits - her first and only contribution to
Wikipedia - totalled 1254 characters, and were conducted over the
space of 30 minutes. They were no the best quality, lacking sources,
but were benign, and exactly what one might expect an untutored novice
to do as a first change.

As well as being reverted, she now has three templates on her talk
page; two warning her of a CoI, and sandwiching one notifying her of a
discussion about her on the COI noticeboard. These total 4094
characters or 665 words.

How do other projects deal with such cases?

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects

[Paulo Santos Perneta]

The OP is misleading. The issue is not with Commons at all, but with OTRS.
As far as I know, Commons never, ever, deleted a file which was in use in
any Wikimedia project, with the notable expectation of copyvios. Otherwise,
use in *any* wikimedia project = on scope for Commons.

Apparently some OTRS volunteers follow some outdated procedures - including
that one related to selfies, which was mentioned - but that is a problem
exclusively with OTRS. I'm part of that team, and I always had the freedom
to decide which looked like a genuine selfie, and which was problematic at
that (e.g., with a copyright notice at the metadata). And, as far as I
know, anyone willing to help fixing those problems at OTRS is very much
welcome there. When the volunteers are very few, and the ones complaining
do not volunteer themselves, it only adds up to the pressure on the few
existing volunteers, making everything worse.

Best,
Paulo

Peter Southwood  escreveu no dia quarta,
26/02/2020 à(s) 06:04:

> This does seem unreasonable. Do they have an explanation at Commons?
> This is happening without standardising in one label Wikipedia, so it is
> jumping to quite a conclusion to assume that the issue is related.
> For the record, I am also opposed to rebranding to Wikipedia, but I do not
> think this issue is necessarily related.
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 6:10 PM
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other
> projects
>
> Hoi,
> Apparantly at Commons they have standardised themselves to only support
> Wikipedia.
>
> At Wikidata we have people who are notable according to our standards. We
> are actively asking them for images to illustrate our information. The best
> suggestion we get is: do not ask for images because they are deleted at
> Commons.
>
> When this is what awaits us when we standardise on one label Wikipedia, it
> is obvious that this is the worst scenario for the "other" projects. The
> projects who operate to different standards who have notability criteria
> different from English Wikipedia.
> Thanks,
>   GerardM
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Treatment of newbies with mild CoI

[Camelia Boban]

I can say that in Italian Wikipedia, in many edit-a-thon that WikiDonne
organized, in time we had often cases where the whole newbie's user page
was deleted immediately, without even warning. Because inside was write for
example "this is a test" or because the page was empty.

Needless to tell you the loss of those who participate in an event and in 5
minutes see the own user page deleted or sometimes even blocked. People who
already enter with lead feet, because complexed by entering and editing in
a community of perfectionists (as we are seen from the outside).

Someone asks for links to demonstrate what is said, but knows that this is
hard work, it means remembering everything and looking for hundreds of
discussions. One should simply remember or put the guideline of good faith
into practice and simply trust. Paulo has right when says that
sometimes *established communities
of editors treat newbies as unwelcome invaders.*

This is not an accusation email to see who is the culprit, but rather a
discussion to see what can be done to improve, since we have a very big
problem of retention and loss of users.

Camelia


--
*Camelia Boban*

*| Java EE Developer |*



*Affiliations Committee - **Wikimedia Foundation*
Diversity WG for Wikimedia Strategy 2030
*Interwiki Women
 | **Wiki
Loves Sport  | Wiki Loves
Fashion *
WMIT  - WMSE
 - WMAR
 - WMCH
 Member

M. +39 3383385545
camelia.bo...@gmail.com
*Aissa Technologies* * | *Twitter
 *|* *LinkedIn
*
*Wikipedia  **| **WikiDonne
UG * | *WikiDonne Project
 *












Il giorno gio 20 feb 2020 alle ore 02:50 Samuel Klein 
ha scritto:

> It would be nice to have a tool for long standing editors to clean up a
> newbies talk page for them, leave messages for the overeager templaters,
> and help them out / welcome them in untemolsted language.
>
> Then a little ML could go a long way in guessing which newbies are in this
> situation and generating a queue for newbie-care. ~~~
>
> 🌍🌏🌎🌑
>
> On Wed., Feb. 19, 2020, 4:35 p.m. Andy Mabbett,  >
> wrote:
>
> > I have just come across a case on en.Wikipedia where the daughter of
> > an article subject added details of his funeral (his death in 1984,w
> > as already recorded) and his view about an indent in his life.
> >
> > Her six sequential edits - her first and only contribution to
> > Wikipedia - totalled 1254 characters, and were conducted over the
> > space of 30 minutes. They were no the best quality, lacking sources,
> > but were benign, and exactly what one might expect an untutored novice
> > to do as a first change.
> >
> > As well as being reverted, she now has three templates on her talk
> > page; two warning her of a CoI, and sandwiching one notifying her of a
> > discussion about her on the COI noticeboard. These total 4094
> > characters or 665 words.
> >
> > How do other projects deal with such cases?
> >
> > --
> > Andy Mabbett
> > @pigsonthewing
> > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> >
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Treatment of newbies with mild CoI

[Paulo Santos Perneta]

Hello Peaceray,

There are many Wikipedians like you who continuously dedicate themselves to
well receive and help newbies, being absolutely decisive in keeping and
improving the projects health. But I was referring specifically to the core
community, the one which regularly frequent village pumps and generally has
a say in the project politics and community issues - no idea if you
consider yourself to be or not be part of that. My perception is that such
core community is generally hostile to newbies. I have been myself an
active part of that core community in my home wiki pretty much since I
joined 11 years ago, but I remember quite vividly how difficult it was to
become part of that club, facing constant accusations of being a
sockpuppet, accused of knowing too much for a newbie while getting my talk
page carpet-bombed with warnings, accused of lying about my nationality,
enduring childish jokes about my family name, accused of coming there to
disturb what was in peace for years, and whatever. And those were the
golden years, now it's way worst than that.

The basic premise for any activity related to Wikipedia, is that Wikipedia
generally is an hostile environment. Whoever joins the project must be
prepared to face the worst, and then anything good that happens gets to be
a wonderful gain. But the stuff about how fun is to edit Wikipedia is not
true a very significant part of the time. Old rats like me got to know very
well over the years how to avoid trouble and get the thing to be as
pleasant as possible, but the poor rookies, they are generally up to some
troubled times if they really want to stay. Social media such as Telegram,
where newbies can socialize with experts and get help in an easy, friendly
and quick way, are playing a very positive role on that. But the onwiki
situation is pretty much awful.

Best,
Paulo



Raymond Leonard  escreveu no dia terça,
25/02/2020 à(s) 19:40:

> I hope I am one of those "rare exceptions" that Paulo Santos Perneta writes
> about. I also wish that welcoming would be neither rare or exceptional.
>
> My habit:
>
>- For newly registered users, which I define as someone with a redlinked
>talk page, I welcome them.
>- If I am going to revert that user's edit then warn them (via Twinkle
>   almost always), I want to ensure that they are welcomed first.
>- For IP editors:
>   -  If I am reverting an obviously inappropriate edit by an
>   un-welcomed IP editor, I typically use one of the Twinkle
> welcome/warning
>   combos, such as Template:Welcome-anon-test,
>   Template:Welcome-anon-unconstructive, or
> Template:Welcome-anon-delete.
>   - If an  un-welcomed IP editor, makes a revertible edit that is
>   non-malicious, I usually do a Template:Welcome-anon without the
> article
>   parameter, then add a warning
>   - If an  un-welcomed IP editor, editor is doing good, I use a
>   Template:Welcome-anon-constructive
>
> Peaceray
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 10:58 AM Pine W  wrote:
>
> > I have a more nuanced view.
> >
> > The community benefits from new editors who are acting in good faith
> > and willing to learn.
> >
> > I agree that treatment of new editors can be problematic.
> >
> > On the other hand, having become one of the "insiders", I now
> > understand how English Wikipedia has a limited supply of skilled labor
> > from volunteers who are trying to defend Wikipedia against vandals,
> > conflict of interest editors, copyright violations, and other
> > problems.
> >
> > There is a WMF team working to improve the onboarding experience. I'm
> > cc'ing Marshal Miller (WMF) here in case he would like to comment.
> >
> > Pine
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> >
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Treatment of newbies with mild CoI

[Anders Wennersten]

We are a small version that welcome all contributions that enhance 
value. So we do not use coi to say no, we only use coi when people enter 
biased  statements, or get angry when their contributions gets neutralized.


And we do not use templates in those cases, we do not even have ones, we 
only link to our policy for coi, in a sentence.


But i am fully aware that the challenge for enwp is much different and 
understand other procedure are used


At the same time i would appreciate if the reality of enwp was not used 
to say it represent all communities.


Anders (representing svwp)

Den 2020-02-19 kl. 22:34, skrev Andy Mabbett:

I have just come across a case on en.Wikipedia where the daughter of
an article subject added details of his funeral (his death in 1984,w
as already recorded) and his view about an indent in his life.

Her six sequential edits - her first and only contribution to
Wikipedia - totalled 1254 characters, and were conducted over the
space of 30 minutes. They were no the best quality, lacking sources,
but were benign, and exactly what one might expect an untutored novice
to do as a first change.

As well as being reverted, she now has three templates on her talk
page; two warning her of a CoI, and sandwiching one notifying her of a
discussion about her on the COI noticeboard. These total 4094
characters or 665 words.

How do other projects deal with such cases?



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Treatment of newbies with mild CoI

[Gnangarra]

Its an interest aspect of speaking generically to describe any issue that
the demand for links turns a discussion from general to specific that says.
Firstly I dont trust you, I'm not assuming good faith in your reason for
starting the discussion. Then secondly it focus the discussion to one point
ignoring the bigger picture issues, lets not look too deep we because we'll
find some cultural/community failing we cant handle that.



On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 16:59, Andy Mabbett 
wrote:

> On Tue, 25 Feb 2020 at 20:36, Vi to  wrote:
> >
> > Hard to tell anything without the relevant link(s).
>
> For you, maybe. Others have already given helpful replies.
>
> My question was generic, and not about the specific case I gave as an
> example.
>
> I chose not to post links to to the example, both in order to avoid a
> pile-on, and to avoid us being distracted by the minutiae of the
> incident concerned.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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-- 
GN.

*Power of Diverse Collaboration*
*Sharing knowledge brings people together*
Wikimania Bangkok 2020
August 5 to 9
hosted by ESEAP

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[Wikimedia-l] I support keeping the "Wikimedia" brand

[Shlomi Fish]

Hi all!

Just to note that I support keeping the "Wikimedia" brand rather than renaming
to "Wikipedia" because there are several other important and popular wikimedia
projects.

-- 

Shlomi Fish   https://www.shlomifish.org/
Understand what Open Source is - https://shlom.in/oss-fs

Learn from mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all
yourself. — Source unknown via Nadav Har’El

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Treatment of newbies with mild CoI

[Andy Mabbett]

On Tue, 25 Feb 2020 at 20:36, Vi to  wrote:
>
> Hard to tell anything without the relevant link(s).

For you, maybe. Others have already given helpful replies.

My question was generic, and not about the specific case I gave as an example.

I chose not to post links to to the example, both in order to avoid a
pile-on, and to avoid us being distracted by the minutiae of the
incident concerned.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
Commons is a project with a specific purpose. It is to host all media that
fits the use of any other project. As it is English Wikipedia notability
standards are used to justify why files are not to be kept on Commons. This
is contrary to its very purpose, it is not acceptable and it is not for the
Commons community to decide otherwise.

When at OTRS a license is given for the unfettered use of media respecting
an approved license, there is no argument, no rule inside OTRS itself that
is applicable particularly when that media is explicitly asked for on
another project.
Thanks,
   Gerard

On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 09:39, Gnangarra  wrote:

> Scope is a Commons community decision,
> OTRS is solely about licensing
>
> On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 15:30, Gerard Meijssen 
> wrote:
>
> > Hoi,
> > No it is an administrative process. It follows its own rules IN ORDER TO
> do
> > what it does. The notion that material is to be useful to Wikipedia is
> NOT
> > covered by any legal restraints. This notion that is alive and well, the
> > notion that copyright can be retroactively applied never mind the
> original
> > copyright holder is that as well.
> >
> > Yes, the underlying work is legal, the process is definitely not and
> > consequently the process has to be revisited, is to be revisited in order
> > for OTRS to function for all of us.
> > Thanks,
> > GerardM
> >
> > On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 08:09, Gnangarra  wrote:
> >
> > > to quote Gerard
> > >
> > > There is no law that insists on the existing rules and regulations as
> put
> > > > forward, rules and regulations that are blatantly unfit
> > >
> > > for purpose.
> > >
> > >
> > > OTRS is very much a legal process because its related to Copyright
> laws,
> > > both in the US and in the country in which they reside.  Every
> > > transaction(image upload) is a person giving away their rights in
> regards
> > > to that work OTRS needs to ensure that the person is fully aware of the
> > > consequences of that action.  OTRS holds an absolute record of that
> > action
> > > of when it took place, it protects all parties should there be an issue
> > in
> > > the future in particular the WMF and our volunteers who were involved
> in
> > > the process.
> > >
> > > On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 13:57, Gerard Meijssen <
> gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hoi,
> > > > Thank you for demonstrating the extend OTRS is not fit for purpose. I
> > > > understand that OTRS is governed by rules and regulations but a
> > reference
> > > > is made to "legal". There is no law that insists on the existing
> rules
> > > and
> > > > regulations as put forward, rules and regulations that are blatantly
> > > unfit
> > > > for purpose.
> > > >
> > > > Particularly the line: "- it must not say the use is to, for, or on
> > > > Wikipedia" is problematic because either this is a list as stated
> what
> > > OTRS
> > > > adheres to or, it is not. It is a negative and as such it reads that
> it
> > > is
> > > > NOT about any Wikipedia and its vagaries.
> > > >
> > > > Yet again it is brought to the attention that the negative attitude
> is
> > to
> > > > be acceptable because of a perceived workload. Apparently it is
> easier
> > to
> > > > say no than to say yes and that is in itself mystifying.
> > > >
> > > > OTRS has not moved on with the time and as such it does not even know
> > > > selfies... An issue not confined to OTRS is that understanding of
> > > copyright
> > > > and licensing is dim anyway. When a copyright holder provides us with
> > > > material, it is licensed by the copyright holder to be available
> under
> > a
> > > > WMF permitted license. When the copyright holder provides it under a
> > > > secondary license elsewhere or when our material is used elsewhere
> > with a
> > > > more restrictive license, it does not follow that we are in breach of
> > > > copyright. I have fought such "delete on sight" battles and the only
> > > result
> > > > is no response on the image that was to be speedily deleted. The rule
> > > > should be; when material is provided to us, the license is checked at
> > the
> > > > time and any and all issues NOT involving the copyright holder are to
> > be
> > > > seen as irrelevant.
> > > >
> > > > OTRS is a Wikimedia Foundation sanctioned function. It insists to
> > > function
> > > > as is and therefore *a new mandate is required* because as is, it
> does
> > > the
> > > > worst possible service. There is no Wikipedia, there are 300+, there
> > are
> > > > other projects that require a functioning Commons and as it is, it is
> > not
> > > > fit for purpose.
> > > >
> > > > You may remember when English Wikipedia had egg on its face because
> of
> > > the
> > > > deletion of what became a Nobel prize winner. There are MANY science
> > > awards
> > > > and we want a picture for all awardees in addition, in the Scholia
> tool
> > > we
> > > > want pictures of any and all people that authored a paper.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >   

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects

[Gnangarra]

Scope is a Commons community decision,
OTRS is solely about licensing

On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 15:30, Gerard Meijssen 
wrote:

> Hoi,
> No it is an administrative process. It follows its own rules IN ORDER TO do
> what it does. The notion that material is to be useful to Wikipedia is NOT
> covered by any legal restraints. This notion that is alive and well, the
> notion that copyright can be retroactively applied never mind the original
> copyright holder is that as well.
>
> Yes, the underlying work is legal, the process is definitely not and
> consequently the process has to be revisited, is to be revisited in order
> for OTRS to function for all of us.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 08:09, Gnangarra  wrote:
>
> > to quote Gerard
> >
> > There is no law that insists on the existing rules and regulations as put
> > > forward, rules and regulations that are blatantly unfit
> >
> > for purpose.
> >
> >
> > OTRS is very much a legal process because its related to Copyright laws,
> > both in the US and in the country in which they reside.  Every
> > transaction(image upload) is a person giving away their rights in regards
> > to that work OTRS needs to ensure that the person is fully aware of the
> > consequences of that action.  OTRS holds an absolute record of that
> action
> > of when it took place, it protects all parties should there be an issue
> in
> > the future in particular the WMF and our volunteers who were involved in
> > the process.
> >
> > On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 13:57, Gerard Meijssen  >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hoi,
> > > Thank you for demonstrating the extend OTRS is not fit for purpose. I
> > > understand that OTRS is governed by rules and regulations but a
> reference
> > > is made to "legal". There is no law that insists on the existing rules
> > and
> > > regulations as put forward, rules and regulations that are blatantly
> > unfit
> > > for purpose.
> > >
> > > Particularly the line: "- it must not say the use is to, for, or on
> > > Wikipedia" is problematic because either this is a list as stated what
> > OTRS
> > > adheres to or, it is not. It is a negative and as such it reads that it
> > is
> > > NOT about any Wikipedia and its vagaries.
> > >
> > > Yet again it is brought to the attention that the negative attitude is
> to
> > > be acceptable because of a perceived workload. Apparently it is easier
> to
> > > say no than to say yes and that is in itself mystifying.
> > >
> > > OTRS has not moved on with the time and as such it does not even know
> > > selfies... An issue not confined to OTRS is that understanding of
> > copyright
> > > and licensing is dim anyway. When a copyright holder provides us with
> > > material, it is licensed by the copyright holder to be available under
> a
> > > WMF permitted license. When the copyright holder provides it under a
> > > secondary license elsewhere or when our material is used elsewhere
> with a
> > > more restrictive license, it does not follow that we are in breach of
> > > copyright. I have fought such "delete on sight" battles and the only
> > result
> > > is no response on the image that was to be speedily deleted. The rule
> > > should be; when material is provided to us, the license is checked at
> the
> > > time and any and all issues NOT involving the copyright holder are to
> be
> > > seen as irrelevant.
> > >
> > > OTRS is a Wikimedia Foundation sanctioned function. It insists to
> > function
> > > as is and therefore *a new mandate is required* because as is, it does
> > the
> > > worst possible service. There is no Wikipedia, there are 300+, there
> are
> > > other projects that require a functioning Commons and as it is, it is
> not
> > > fit for purpose.
> > >
> > > You may remember when English Wikipedia had egg on its face because of
> > the
> > > deletion of what became a Nobel prize winner. There are MANY science
> > awards
> > > and we want a picture for all awardees in addition, in the Scholia tool
> > we
> > > want pictures of any and all people that authored a paper.
> > > Thanks,
> > >   GerardM
> > >
> > > On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 02:06, Gnangarra  wrote:
> > >
> > > > For legal reasons OTRS requires very specific wording, it declines
> > > > permissions that fail to meet that very strict wording.
> > > >
> > > > The person must;
> > > >
> > > >- establish their authority to license the image
> > > >- the license must be a free license PD or CC-by
> > > >- it must not say the use is to, for, or on Wikipedia
> > > >- it needs a URL to associate the permission with
> > > >
> > > > If the media meets these requirements than it will be accept, if it
> > > doesnt
> > > > it gets rejected. Scope is something that gets decided on on Commons.
> > > >
> > > > Wikidata has had an impact on scope, quite literally everything is
> now
> > > > within scope.  We havent even yet got to the issue about Wikidata
> items
> > > > including trademarked logos and copyrighted works for which Commons

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Treatment of newbies with mild CoI

[Gnangarra]

I have 15 years experience on the coal face, and now more than 10 years
actively encouraging others to part of that.  I come from the time where
the community was growing really fast and templates werent available for
every action, that meant we had to leave personal message explaining  what
had taken place.  Currently anyone can react at the twinkle of an eye to do
the same thing 100 times in  a minute with all the necessary policy links
already there, nothing is written with a personal touch, there is no
measure of encouragement its just a cold machine response even the edit
summary is a cold you've been twinkled upon.  We have forgotten to Assume
Good Faith when its appropriate.

Doing outreach, workshops, editathons and other such events we need to step
away from retention being the be all of these events, the aim of these
events is content, connection, and community every edit whether its just
one or one million is to improve and share knowledge.  The more we get hung
up on volume the less we value quality and diversity, outreach is building
access to knowledge creating a path for others follow.

Twinkle is great tool in combating vandalism, and spam but its very poor
tool for building community and becomes extremely dangerous when its
applied as a training aid or for contributor there are no workshops, no
outreach, no twinkleathons to teach people how to use it effectively just
log a few edits ask nicely at a notice board and voila you're armed to zap
template where ever, when ever.   Twinkle needs to have limits placed on
actions, some review process of those actions - 100 actions in your first
30 days then its disable until some reviews.  We could even consider a
limit to its use until a person has gained community trust as an admin, if
person can only whack 100 people a month they are going to consider/value
their decision when they do so, we might see a lot less templates and more
talking.

On the subject of a twinlkeathon, twinlkeshop Wikimania 2020 is looking for
such activities maybe you can help improve its use

On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 14:32, Peter Southwood 
wrote:

> Also, overworked groups with large backlogs struggling to maintain high
> quality tend to have less patience with the inexperienced and
> not-yet-competent than we might like. It is also possible that some of the
> workers in those groups are not as competent as we would like them to be,
> but at those wages, what can you expect? The work probably also attracts a
> share of people who get their kicks out of telling other people what they
> can't do. Again, they are volunteers, we accept their offer to help in good
> faith until they prove otherwise. The competent and really incompetent are
> the easy cases. The not quite competent are harder to deal with. Will they
> get better or worse with experience?
> Some competence is required to edit Wikipedia. A suitable personality also
> helps a lot. However, an enormous amount of work gets done quietly and
> without fanfare and drama, if one chooses the topic carefully, and edits
> with discretion and a reasonable level of willingness to cooperate.
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Paulo Santos Perneta
> Sent: 25 February 2020 20:03
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Treatment of newbies with mild CoI
>
> As a rule, (at least) in Wikipedia, with very rare exceptions,  established
> communities of editors treat newbies as unwelcome invaders.
> No idea how to solve that, since it's a problem related to the nature of
> humane beings, not something technical.
> But the result is a very low rate of retention, indeed - and increasingly
> reduced diversity and cultural richness, which eventually ends up reflected
> on content. At some point those established editors also start preying at
> other established editors, specially when newbies are not available. The
> environment is awful and toxic in general.
>
> For outreach activities to have at least a minimal rate of success, the
> participants need to have some kind of protection shield, such as some
> privileged contact with established editors willing to help them.
> Otherwise, edithatons and other outreach activities are basically sending
> lambs to the slaughterhouse. As for newbies that come to Wikipedia by
> themselves, they are generally on their own.
>
> Best,
> Paulo
>
> Aron Demian  escreveu no dia domingo, 23/02/2020
> à(s) 23:30:
>
> > On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 at 22:35, Andy Mabbett 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I have just come across a case on en.Wikipedia where the daughter of
> > > an article subject added details of his funeral (his death in 1984,w
> > > as already recorded) and his view about an indent in his life.
> >
> > [...]
> > >
> > As well as being reverted, she now has three templates on her talk
> > > page; two warning her of a CoI, and sandwiching one notifying her of a
> > > discussion about her on the 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects

[Benjamin Lees]

 Like Peter, I do not see a clear connection to the proposed rebranding.
Threads of this sort would be more constructive if they were framed in a
way that does not unnecessarily tie in every other issue one might have
with the movement, and that does not imply that anybody with a different
perspective must be evil or incompetent.


On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 8:06 PM Gnangarra  wrote:

>- it must not say the use is to, for, or on Wikipedia
>
>

A file must not say it is *exclusively* for the use of Wikipedia, because
such a condition is incompatible with the license we demand.  And there
must be an actual license--"Wikipedia can use my picture" is the classic
submission that requires us to ask for a proper licensing declaration.  But
there is certainly no problem if somebody submits a file for the *purpose*
of use on Wikipedia.  That is one of the most common motivations for
submitting files.



> Commons has fallen behind when it comes to the capability of taking photos
> of ones self (selfies) the default position when Commons started was that
> taking a high quality photograph of yourself wasnt possible there must have
> been someone else pushing the button. What happens is Commons asks for the
> subject to obtain permission from the photographer and submit that to OTRS,
> the systems falls over because the photographer cant prove that the photo
> they took of themselves was taken by themselves because the underlying
> assumption is that that isnt possible.
>

It does appear to be standard practice to ask who took a photograph,
because in a great many cases, it was not the person submitting the file,
and many people do not realize that the photographer, rather than the
subject, owns the copyright. (As Gerard says, "understanding of copyright
and licensing is dim".) I don't think anybody treats "the picture looks
good" as creating an irrebuttable presumption that it is not a selfie, but
different users do have different views of how not-a-selfie-looking a given
file is and of how much verification should be performed more generally.


OTRS permission behaves as expected because there is a very narrow
> definition of whats acceptable, anything that doesnt fit gets rejected. The
> very real need to be pro-active in ensuring the permissions queue doesnt
> get overwhelmed and backlogged  contributes to the fact that the grey is
> treated as black -- close it, delete it, move on.
>

My impression is that most agents go to reasonable (and sometimes
excessive) lengths to give people submitting files a chance to show that
they have the rights to do so.

Emufarmers
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