Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing WikiProject X

2015-01-16 Thread Andy Mabbett 
On 16 January 2015 at 07:18, geni  wrote:
> On 15 January 2015 at 21:29, Andy Mabbett  wrote:
>
>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q8564001 was created on 28 March 2013‎
>> and is found in the left-hand navigation on
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florin_%28English_coin%29 as a link
>> called "Wikdata item".

> So we're back to the English Wikipedia being the only functional method of
> navigating wikidata.

No, but since you'd had difficulty finding that item, I thought I'd
show you one easy way to do so. I found it by typing the word "Florin"
into the search box on Wikdiata.

> Of course whats really going to mess things up is that
> the florin isn't a single coin but in fact a whole series of them. While it
> makes sense for the english wikipedia to bash them all together it makes
> less sense for wikidata to do so.

So fix it.

While Wikidata, which is just over two years old, has far more
complete coverage than Wikipedia did in 2003, there's still work to
do. You can edit it. It's a wiki.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing WikiProject X

2015-01-15 Thread geni 
On 15 January 2015 at 21:29, Andy Mabbett  wrote:

> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q8564001 was created on 28 March 2013‎
> and is found in the left-hand navigation on
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florin_%28English_coin%29 as a link
> called "Wikdata item".
>

So we're back to the English Wikipedia being the only functional method of
navigating wikidata. Of course whats really going to mess things up is that
the florin isn't a single coin but in fact a whole series of them. While it
makes sense for the english wikipedia to bash them all together it makes
less sense for wikidata to do so.


-- 
geni
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing WikiProject X

2015-01-15 Thread Andy Mabbett 
On 14 January 2015 at 17:00, Liam Wyatt  wrote:

> Wikiprojects are a very important and long-standing part of the community
> infrastructure of Wikipedias - and (IMHO) hold the key to helping support
> new editors through the crucial first 20 newbie edits.

Good ones do; bad ones are the opposite, and act as foci for
territorial "owners" who see off outside editors and enforce their own
vision of how Wikipedia should work, even where that contradicts wider
community consensus (and in doing so often reinforce systemic biases).
It would be good if this project could examine how that happens and
how it can be mitigated.

> If anyone has ideas for how Wikiprojects can be improved. List them here:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_X

Will do.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing WikiProject X

2015-01-15 Thread Andy Mabbett 
On 14 January 2015 at 15:36, geni  wrote:

> Well lets take a fairly straightforward coin. The British Florin. Hardly
> obscure it was in circulation for over a century in one of the world's
> largest economies. You won't find it through wikidata.

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q8564001 was created on 28 March 2013‎
and is found in the left-hand navigation on
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florin_%28English_coin%29 as a link
called "Wikdata item".

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing WikiProject X

2015-01-15 Thread Isarra Yos 

On 14/01/15 04:01, Keegan Peterzell wrote:

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Ricordisamoa 
wrote:




  Sounds like just another enwiki-specific thing.



​That's a reasonable assumption. I'm only guessing, but I think the project
is based on the English Wikipedia because that's the area where the
grantee(s) are most familiar. I wouldn't want them to go mucking around on
projects they are not familiar with first.

I'm going to assume that while this is initially en.wp focused, the
grantees are willing to learn from and share what they learn with the other
projects. One would think they would appreciate the outreach from other
communities, learning from each other is always a Good Thing™.​


This. For our project, things enwp users would never even think of may 
prove to be the most useful, but as always, we do want this to be able 
to scale. Such will probably show up more in any tool implementations 
that show up later, but the less hard-coded those things are, the more 
flexibility they can have later, which means they will be more useful 
for everyone down the line - english wikipedians and whoever else as well.


A lack of flexibility has happened with a lot of other tools before and 
it's not something we want to repeat. We'll see what happens, though.


-I

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing WikiProject X

2015-01-14 Thread Liam Wyatt 
>
>
> By the way Q5869386 is really rather funny. For some reason your bots think
> that [[History of the English penny (1066–1154)]] is equivalent to
> [[History of the English penny]].
>
> --
> geni
>

I am now slightly more educated than I was this morning on the topic of the
history of English currency. Did everyone else know that there are actually
at least 8 distinct periods of penny? Naturally enough, there's a series of
[English] Wikipedia articles about them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
/Penny_(English_coin)#Pennies_by_period

And - in a desperate attempt to bring this thread BACK TO THE POINT - they,
and over 3,500 other articles, are coordinated by Wikiproject Numismatics:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Numismatics

Because if its clear scope, detailed academic resources, dedicated
interest-group, and relatively small wiki-community size, this is the kind
of wikiproject that would probably be a fantastic candidate for testing
some of the ideas worked on with 'Wikiproject X'.
Wikiprojects that want to sign up as testers can go here: https://en.
wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_X/Pilots

Wikiprojects are a very important and long-standing part of the community
infrastructure of Wikipedias - and (IMHO) hold the key to helping support
new editors through the crucial first 20 newbie edits. However I don't
believe they have EVER received any specific attention about how they can
be supported more (by the WMF, Chapters, with grants, software features,
bugs fixed, etc etc). This is a fantastic opportunity to support on-wiki
collaboration.

If anyone has ideas for how Wikiprojects can be improved. List them here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_X
To subscribe to the newsletter, go here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_X/Newsletter

p.s. Yes, this is English-wikipedia focused because the volunteer who
applied for the grant is an English-speaker... It wouldn't be very useful
for the WMF to fund grants for volunteers to work in languages that they
don't understand...
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing WikiProject X

2015-01-14 Thread geni 
On 14 January 2015 at 15:04, Gerard Meijssen 
wrote:

> Hoi,
> When Wikipedia does not have articles on a subject, what do you do... Same
> for Wikidata..
>
> So again, how is Wikidata not there yet ?
> Thanks,
>   GerardM
>


Well lets take a fairly straightforward coin. The British Florin. Hardly
obscure it was in circulation for over a century in one of the world's
largest economies. You won't find it through wikidata. You can find it on
wikipedia via the relevant disambiguation pages. You can of course then
figure out where it is on wikidata but your most effective index being the
english wikipedia is a pretty good example of not being there yet.


By the way Q5869386 is really rather funny. For some reason your bots think
that [[History of the English penny (1066–1154)]] is equivalent to
[[History of the English penny]].

-- 
geni
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing WikiProject X

2015-01-14 Thread Strainu 
2015-01-14 17:04 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen :
> Hoi,
> When Wikipedia does not have articles on a subject, what do you do... Same
> for Wikidata..
>
> So again, how is Wikidata not there yet ?

It just doesn't have the information required, apparently. It also
might not have the structure required; I found the process for adding
properties is slow (although not that painful)

Let's not turn Wikidata into the proverbial hammer. Let the grantees
organize themselves as they see fit, and if the result is worthy, I'm
sure they will also find a way to integrate it with Wikidata.

Strainu

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing WikiProject X

2015-01-14 Thread Gerard Meijssen 
Hoi,
When Wikipedia does not have articles on a subject, what do you do... Same
for Wikidata..

So again, how is Wikidata not there yet ?
Thanks,
  GerardM

On 14 January 2015 at 15:12, geni  wrote:

> On 14 January 2015 at 12:33, Gerard Meijssen 
> wrote:
>
> > Hoi,
> > How is Wikidata not here yet ?
> > Thanks,
> >  GerardM
> >
>
> Well at the london meetup we tried poking at it with regards to coins. It
> tends not to be aware when things are currency units (pounds crown florin)
> hasn't heard of the likes of long cross pennies let alone individual coin
> mintings (the exception presumably being ones notable enough to have
> Wikipedia articles).
>
> It does of course know a fair bit about bitcoin.
>
> --
> geni
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing WikiProject X

2015-01-14 Thread geni 
On 14 January 2015 at 12:33, Gerard Meijssen 
wrote:

> Hoi,
> How is Wikidata not here yet ?
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>

Well at the london meetup we tried poking at it with regards to coins. It
tends not to be aware when things are currency units (pounds crown florin)
hasn't heard of the likes of long cross pennies let alone individual coin
mintings (the exception presumably being ones notable enough to have
Wikipedia articles).

It does of course know a fair bit about bitcoin.

-- 
geni
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing WikiProject X

2015-01-14 Thread Gerard Meijssen 
Hoi,
How is Wikidata not here yet ?
Thanks,
 GerardM

On 14 January 2015 at 02:01, Oliver Keyes  wrote:

> Well, yes. Was your clue the bit where it said English-language wikipedia?
>
> Wikiproject-based things are incredibly difficult to generalize because
> they're so dependent on project-specific nuances and setups. Wikidata will
> change that, I hope, but it's not there yet.
>
> On Tuesday, 13 January 2015, Ricordisamoa 
> wrote:
>
> > Il 13/01/2015 23:24, James Hare ha scritto:
> >
> >> (Standard apology for cross-posting.)
> >>
> >> Greetings everyone!
> >>
> >> I am pleased to announce a new project, WikiProject X, funded by a
> >> Wikimedia Foundation Individual Engagement Grant. WikiProject X's goal
> is
> >> to improve the experience of WikiProjects, which are subject-area (or
> >> goal-oriented) collaborative spaces on the English Wikipedia. By making
> >> WikiProjects easier to use and maintain, it will be easier to build
> >> sub-communities of like-minded people, giving editors a sense of
> community
> >> on a huge and daunting website like Wikipedia. This includes mechanisms
> for
> >> recruiting new participants and encouraging the creation of safe spaces
> >> where editors, new and experienced alike, can feel like they can
> >> participate in discussions without fear of intimidation or jargon.
> >>
> >> The project will begin with some research, both qualitative research in
> >> the form of interviews and case studies, and quantitative research
> based on
> >> Wikipedia’s database. Our focus will be on WikiProjects that have been
> >> successful in organizing editors, and learning more about what makes
> them
> >> work. Based on this research, we will develop new tools and interfaces
> that
> >> make WikiProjects easier to use and easier to maintain. Please note that
> >> this is an opt-in program for WikiProjects; no WikiProject will be
> required
> >> to make changes.
> >>
> >> I would like to invite the community to check out our new page on
> >> Wikipedia, 
> >> (shortcut WP:WPX). There, you can share your experiences with
> WikiProjects
> >> and sign up to become a pilot tester. Community participation is crucial
> >> for the success of this project, and the more voices we hear, the
> better.
> >>
> >> If you want to sign up for more updates, sign up for our newsletter
> here:
> >> .
> >>
> >> Please let me know if you have any questions. I am very much looking
> >> forward to working with everyone on making this project succeed!
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> James Hare
> >> Project Manager, WikiProject X
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_X
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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> >> 
> >>
> > Sounds like just another enwiki-specific thing.
> >
> > ___
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>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing WikiProject X

2015-01-14 Thread Oliver Keyes 
Well, yes. Was your clue the bit where it said English-language wikipedia?

Wikiproject-based things are incredibly difficult to generalize because
they're so dependent on project-specific nuances and setups. Wikidata will
change that, I hope, but it's not there yet.

On Tuesday, 13 January 2015, Ricordisamoa 
wrote:

> Il 13/01/2015 23:24, James Hare ha scritto:
>
>> (Standard apology for cross-posting.)
>>
>> Greetings everyone!
>>
>> I am pleased to announce a new project, WikiProject X, funded by a
>> Wikimedia Foundation Individual Engagement Grant. WikiProject X's goal is
>> to improve the experience of WikiProjects, which are subject-area (or
>> goal-oriented) collaborative spaces on the English Wikipedia. By making
>> WikiProjects easier to use and maintain, it will be easier to build
>> sub-communities of like-minded people, giving editors a sense of community
>> on a huge and daunting website like Wikipedia. This includes mechanisms for
>> recruiting new participants and encouraging the creation of safe spaces
>> where editors, new and experienced alike, can feel like they can
>> participate in discussions without fear of intimidation or jargon.
>>
>> The project will begin with some research, both qualitative research in
>> the form of interviews and case studies, and quantitative research based on
>> Wikipedia’s database. Our focus will be on WikiProjects that have been
>> successful in organizing editors, and learning more about what makes them
>> work. Based on this research, we will develop new tools and interfaces that
>> make WikiProjects easier to use and easier to maintain. Please note that
>> this is an opt-in program for WikiProjects; no WikiProject will be required
>> to make changes.
>>
>> I would like to invite the community to check out our new page on
>> Wikipedia, 
>> (shortcut WP:WPX). There, you can share your experiences with WikiProjects
>> and sign up to become a pilot tester. Community participation is crucial
>> for the success of this project, and the more voices we hear, the better.
>>
>> If you want to sign up for more updates, sign up for our newsletter here:
>> .
>>
>> Please let me know if you have any questions. I am very much looking
>> forward to working with everyone on making this project succeed!
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> James Hare
>> Project Manager, WikiProject X
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_X
>> ___
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>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> 
>>
> Sounds like just another enwiki-specific thing.
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing WikiProject X

2015-01-13 Thread Keegan Peterzell 
On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Ricordisamoa 
wrote:

>
>>  Sounds like just another enwiki-specific thing.
>
>
​That's a reasonable assumption. I'm only guessing, but I think the project
is based on the English Wikipedia because that's the area where the
grantee(s) are most familiar. I wouldn't want them to go mucking around on
projects they are not familiar with first.

I'm going to assume that while this is initially en.wp focused, the
grantees are willing to learn from and share what they learn with the other
projects. One would think they would appreciate the outreach from other
communities, learning from each other is always a Good Thing™.​


-- 
~Keegan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan

This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email address
is in a personal capacity.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing WikiProject X

2015-01-13 Thread Ricordisamoa 

Il 13/01/2015 23:24, James Hare ha scritto:

(Standard apology for cross-posting.)

Greetings everyone!

I am pleased to announce a new project, WikiProject X, funded by a Wikimedia 
Foundation Individual Engagement Grant. WikiProject X's goal is to improve the 
experience of WikiProjects, which are subject-area (or goal-oriented) 
collaborative spaces on the English Wikipedia. By making WikiProjects easier to 
use and maintain, it will be easier to build sub-communities of like-minded 
people, giving editors a sense of community on a huge and daunting website like 
Wikipedia. This includes mechanisms for recruiting new participants and 
encouraging the creation of safe spaces where editors, new and experienced 
alike, can feel like they can participate in discussions without fear of 
intimidation or jargon.

The project will begin with some research, both qualitative research in the 
form of interviews and case studies, and quantitative research based on 
Wikipedia’s database. Our focus will be on WikiProjects that have been 
successful in organizing editors, and learning more about what makes them work. 
Based on this research, we will develop new tools and interfaces that make 
WikiProjects easier to use and easier to maintain. Please note that this is an 
opt-in program for WikiProjects; no WikiProject will be required to make 
changes.

I would like to invite the community to check out our new page on Wikipedia, 
 (shortcut WP:WPX). 
There, you can share your experiences with WikiProjects and sign up to become a pilot 
tester. Community participation is crucial for the success of this project, and the 
more voices we hear, the better.

If you want to sign up for more updates, sign up for our newsletter here: 
.

Please let me know if you have any questions. I am very much looking forward to 
working with everyone on making this project succeed!


Cheers,
James Hare
Project Manager, WikiProject X
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_X
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Sounds like just another enwiki-specific thing.

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[Wikimedia-l] Introducing WikiProject X

2015-01-13 Thread James Hare 
(Standard apology for cross-posting.)

Greetings everyone!

I am pleased to announce a new project, WikiProject X, funded by a Wikimedia 
Foundation Individual Engagement Grant. WikiProject X's goal is to improve the 
experience of WikiProjects, which are subject-area (or goal-oriented) 
collaborative spaces on the English Wikipedia. By making WikiProjects easier to 
use and maintain, it will be easier to build sub-communities of like-minded 
people, giving editors a sense of community on a huge and daunting website like 
Wikipedia. This includes mechanisms for recruiting new participants and 
encouraging the creation of safe spaces where editors, new and experienced 
alike, can feel like they can participate in discussions without fear of 
intimidation or jargon.

The project will begin with some research, both qualitative research in the 
form of interviews and case studies, and quantitative research based on 
Wikipedia’s database. Our focus will be on WikiProjects that have been 
successful in organizing editors, and learning more about what makes them work. 
Based on this research, we will develop new tools and interfaces that make 
WikiProjects easier to use and easier to maintain. Please note that this is an 
opt-in program for WikiProjects; no WikiProject will be required to make 
changes.

I would like to invite the community to check out our new page on Wikipedia, 
 (shortcut WP:WPX). 
There, you can share your experiences with WikiProjects and sign up to become a 
pilot tester. Community participation is crucial for the success of this 
project, and the more voices we hear, the better.

If you want to sign up for more updates, sign up for our newsletter here: 
.

Please let me know if you have any questions. I am very much looking forward to 
working with everyone on making this project succeed!


Cheers,
James Hare
Project Manager, WikiProject X
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_X
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