Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2
Thanks for the feedback, Leslie. Yeah it's more about having direct connections. I guess we can't really use it to increase bandwidth except to people already on their network, but those who are on the network do tend to use our sites a lot, since they often have to do research. I'm not clear on whether we would be merely peering with them or actually adding another data link, since (for instance) Missouri University set up their own IXP just to connect to their network. But peering seems to achieve the desired result. On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 3:24 AM, Leslie Carr lc...@wikimedia.org wrote: FYI - Also while I would see a benefit in peering, I would probably use the transit or partial transit bgp group, since this is being like a transit network, and I wouldn't want to overrule our better paths to their downstream AS'es -- Forwarded message -- From: Leslie Carr lc...@wikimedia.org Date: Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2 To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org As the network person, I don't really see any benefit in joining internet2, though I would see a benefit in possibly peering with them at Equinix Ashburn, since according to their looking glass they have a more direct connection to several AS'es than we do. On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 5:49 AM, Jasper Deng jas...@jasperswebsite.com wrote: Sneakernets are not particularly convenient. If the organizations of the net wanted to use that for data transfer, the net wouldn't exist. But I still think Wikimedia could increase/streamline accessibility to its information. It probably couldn't happen, but they have more than enough capacity to serve our content alone from eqiad (replacing or augmenting our existing links). Wikimedia also develops new ways to reach more people (such as MediaWiki mobile) like many of the organizations. Internet2 is not set up as a true transit network, so this would not work. Another information organization that's participating is JSTOR, which I think is comparable to our projects as a source of information, so I think we can benefit from it. I'd respectfully disagree, as a Wikidata editor, that Commons is the only large database, because it may be large in terms of file size, but Wikidata has more tangible hard machine-readable data, with much more to come. But from a network perspective, wikidata is a small database since it is text... and the only benefit of joining internet2 is the network connection. On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 4:41 PM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: On 12 October 2013 21:41, Jasper Deng jas...@jasperswebsite.com wrote: We could change that. Suppose a university wants to request the entire knowledgebase of Wikidata or another project, or if we need to do a mass transfer of data from them. Still not significant. The only really large database we have is the commons image database and a sneaker net might be the most practical option there. -- geni ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Leslie Carr Wikimedia Foundation AS 14907, 43821 http://as14907.peeringdb.com/ -- Leslie Carr Wikimedia Foundation AS 14907, 43821 http://as14907.peeringdb.com/ ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2
From http://www.internet2.edu/about/ I see that they are also focused on research. From that, I got the impression that like us, they are committed to the accessibility of knowledge. They state on their website that without them, many college researchers may not be able to get the information they need. They can always use their normal connection to access us, but having a direct connection could improve this access. On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 10:28 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.comwrote: Jasper Deng, 12/10/2013 01:53: I then read the website and found that Wikimedia's and their missions go together very well; part of it is the commitment to sharing and spreading information. Where did you get this impression? I've read a few pages and to me it just seems the typical research network body. It's easy to see it from their international partners: http://internet2.edu/**international/partners/http://internet2.edu/international/partners/ The only overlap I see is in defending net neutrality http://www.internet2.edu/**government/http://www.internet2.edu/government/but it's secondary in their work. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2
Jasper Deng, 12/10/2013 19:35: From http://www.internet2.edu/about/ I see that they are also focused on research. From that, I got the impression that like us, they are committed to the accessibility of knowledge. They state on their website that without them, many college researchers may not be able to get the information they need. They can always use their normal connection to access us, but having a direct connection could improve this access. Direct connection to what? Research networks are among the best positioned in peering points. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2
Jasper Deng, 12/10/2013 21:34: Instead of passing through others' routing domains, we would have a direct link/BGP session with them (should be feasible given the proximity of their IXP). http://noc.net.internet2.edu/uploads/j_/cI/j_cIw5DZ0TaRa-EArTqANg/internet2-cps-20090909.pdf suggests they're already peering at Ashburn. But seriously, such networks are about transfering datasets like 800 TB of oceanic and atmospheric data from one continent to another, their traffic with WMF is just peanuts. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2
We could change that. Suppose a university wants to request the entire knowledgebase of Wikidata or another project, or if we need to do a mass transfer of data from them. On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.comwrote: Jasper Deng, 12/10/2013 21:34: Instead of passing through others' routing domains, we would have a direct link/BGP session with them (should be feasible given the proximity of their IXP). http://noc.net.internet2.edu/**uploads/j_/cI/j_cIw5DZ0TaRa-** EArTqANg/internet2-cps-**20090909.pdfhttp://noc.net.internet2.edu/uploads/j_/cI/j_cIw5DZ0TaRa-EArTqANg/internet2-cps-20090909.pdf suggests they're already peering at Ashburn. But seriously, such networks are about transfering datasets like 800 TB of oceanic and atmospheric data from one continent to another, their traffic with WMF is just peanuts. Nemo __**_ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.**org Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@**lists.wikimedia.orgwikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=**unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2
On 12 October 2013 21:41, Jasper Deng jas...@jasperswebsite.com wrote: We could change that. Suppose a university wants to request the entire knowledgebase of Wikidata or another project, or if we need to do a mass transfer of data from them. Still not significant. The only really large database we have is the commons image database and a sneaker net might be the most practical option there. -- geni ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2
Sneakernets are not particularly convenient. If the organizations of the net wanted to use that for data transfer, the net wouldn't exist. But I still think Wikimedia could increase/streamline accessibility to its information. It probably couldn't happen, but they have more than enough capacity to serve our content alone from eqiad (replacing or augmenting our existing links). Wikimedia also develops new ways to reach more people (such as MediaWiki mobile) like many of the organizations. Another information organization that's participating is JSTOR, which I think is comparable to our projects as a source of information, so I think we can benefit from it. I'd respectfully disagree, as a Wikidata editor, that Commons is the only large database, because it may be large in terms of file size, but Wikidata has more tangible hard machine-readable data, with much more to come. On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 4:41 PM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: On 12 October 2013 21:41, Jasper Deng jas...@jasperswebsite.com wrote: We could change that. Suppose a university wants to request the entire knowledgebase of Wikidata or another project, or if we need to do a mass transfer of data from them. Still not significant. The only really large database we have is the commons image database and a sneaker net might be the most practical option there. -- geni ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2
I'm wondering whether Wikimedia has ever considered participating in the Internet2 research network (Wikipedia articlehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet2; official website http://www.internet2.edu). I had found out about it after reading a news article about how Missouri University changing its 10 Gbit/s connection to 100 Gbit/s. I then read the website and found that Wikimedia's and their missions go together very well; part of it is the commitment to sharing and spreading information. While they are focused on developing new technologies and that isn't exactly Wikimedia's primary focus, I see big potential for Wikimedia to benefit from participation on the network, as it could make our information more accessible to researchers on the network. When thinking about why Wikimedia wasn't participating, I noticed the costs of membership. Wikimedia would participate as an Affiliate, which according to the membership pagehttp://www.internet2.edu/membership/membership_structure.cfm, consists of Non-profit organizations that are research- and/or education-oriented, with a strong interest in Internet2's mission and goals. They are committed to promoting the development and deployment of advanced Internet applications and network services in the conduct of research and education. (sounds like us!). For us, as a level 4 affiliate (since our operating budget is certainly below 100 million US dollars a year) , we would pay $10,000/yr. I previously spoke to Ironholds about this, but neither he nor I know whether the WMF has previously considered it. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and Internet2
Jasper Deng, 12/10/2013 01:53: I then read the website and found that Wikimedia's and their missions go together very well; part of it is the commitment to sharing and spreading information. Where did you get this impression? I've read a few pages and to me it just seems the typical research network body. It's easy to see it from their international partners: http://internet2.edu/international/partners/ The only overlap I see is in defending net neutrality http://www.internet2.edu/government/ but it's secondary in their work. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
