Re: [Wikimedia-l] Timeline of recent events at the Wikimedia Foundation

[Peter Coombe]

Thank you so much for working on this timeline Molly. A beautiful
presentation of an ugly situation!

Peter

On 23 February 2016 at 07:06, GorillaWarfare <
gorillawarfarewikipe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 2:03 AM, Theo10011  wrote:
>
> > Please consider (for later) either linking or making a wiki version for
> > Meta. Thanks for making this effort.
> >
>
> I intend to make a Mediawiki-friendly version once real life is out of the
> way.
>
> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Timeline of recent events at the Wikimedia Foundation

[GorillaWarfare]

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 2:03 AM, Theo10011  wrote:

> Please consider (for later) either linking or making a wiki version for
> Meta. Thanks for making this effort.
>

I intend to make a Mediawiki-friendly version once real life is out of the
way.

– Molly (GorillaWarfare)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Timeline of recent events at the Wikimedia Foundation

[Theo10011]

Good Job GW!

Please consider (for later) either linking or making a wiki version for
Meta. Thanks for making this effort.

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016, Gerard Meijssen  wrote:
>
> All the shit from mailinglists is missing. For the temperature aka the
> understanding of the developments it is certainly as potent as some of the
> departures.
>

Hoi
 It is not the point but I will explain the point .

I think GW covered enough relevant points from the list. There are other
sources that cover similar comments from here, and sifting through a few
hundred long emails to find relevant quotes is going to be a time-consuming
activity which will require editorial choices. Choices, which you and
others might again disagree with. It's better to just cover big
announcements and important messages (important being subjective).

Also, please try to avoid colorful language and be appreciative of someone
else's effort.

Regards
Theo
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Timeline of recent events at the Wikimedia Foundation

[GorillaWarfare]

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 1:30 AM, Gerard Meijssen 
wrote:

> All the shit from mailinglists is missing. For the temperature aka the
> understanding of the developments it is certainly as potent as some of the
> departures.
>

Hi Gerard,

Quite a few of the entries refer to mailing list posts. I am aware that
responses to the "An Open Letter to Wikimedia Foundation BoT" thread are
missing, and I plan to go through and add the particularly relevant ones
later (unfortunately real life—that is, homework—has gotten in the way).

If you think that there are other emails from the list that should be
included, please let me know (via email or PR) specifically which and why.
Although I do keep an eye on Wikimedia-l and other Wikimedia mailing lists,
I know I do not watch them as closely as you or some other members of the
list, so your help would be appreciated in identifying the particularly
important gaps.

– Molly (GorillaWarfare)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Timeline of recent events at the Wikimedia Foundation

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
All the shit from mailinglists is missing. For the temperature aka the
understanding of the developments it is certainly as potent as some of the
departures.
Thanks,
  GerardM

On 22 February 2016 at 13:20, GorillaWarfare <
gorillawarfarewikipe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Recent discussion of the Knowledge Engine/Wikimedia Discovery project,
> issues with senior leadership, lack of transparency, and the like has been
> fairly well spread across several Wikimedia projects and mailing lists, as
> well as on Facebook, in the media, and in other venues.
>
> I just published an attempt to aggregate some of the events that I think
> are particularly informative given what's been going on:
> http://mollywhite.net/wikimedia-timeline/
>
> I hope it's helpful, and please feel free to suggest changes if it's
> incomplete.
>
> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Timeline of recent events at the Wikimedia Foundation

[Dan Andreescu]

Thank you!  For providing context to those that don't have it, structure to
those who do, and evidence of our values of collaboration, openness, and
empiricism.  Remarkable thing to accomplish with a timeline : )

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 9:35 PM, Todd Allen  wrote:

> Yes, very nicely done indeed. I very much like that layout.
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 5:20 AM, GorillaWarfare <
> gorillawarfarewikipe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Recent discussion of the Knowledge Engine/Wikimedia Discovery project,
> > issues with senior leadership, lack of transparency, and the like has
> been
> > fairly well spread across several Wikimedia projects and mailing lists,
> as
> > well as on Facebook, in the media, and in other venues.
> >
> > I just published an attempt to aggregate some of the events that I think
> > are particularly informative given what's been going on:
> > http://mollywhite.net/wikimedia-timeline/
> >
> > I hope it's helpful, and please feel free to suggest changes if it's
> > incomplete.
> >
> > – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Timeline of recent events at the Wikimedia Foundation

[Todd Allen]

Yes, very nicely done indeed. I very much like that layout.

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 5:20 AM, GorillaWarfare <
gorillawarfarewikipe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Recent discussion of the Knowledge Engine/Wikimedia Discovery project,
> issues with senior leadership, lack of transparency, and the like has been
> fairly well spread across several Wikimedia projects and mailing lists, as
> well as on Facebook, in the media, and in other venues.
>
> I just published an attempt to aggregate some of the events that I think
> are particularly informative given what's been going on:
> http://mollywhite.net/wikimedia-timeline/
>
> I hope it's helpful, and please feel free to suggest changes if it's
> incomplete.
>
> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Timeline of recent events at the Wikimedia Foundation

[Andreas Kolbe]

Beautiful work. Thank you.

Andreas

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 1:06 AM, GorillaWarfare <
gorillawarfarewikipe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you all so much for your feedback! I've just gone through all the
> suggestions that you've sent via emails, messages, IRCs, and pull requests
> and am really thrilled with all the help. I believe I'm caught up (for
> now!) with reading through all that I've received, and I've incorporated
> many of them!
>
> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Timeline of recent events at the Wikimedia Foundation

[Sam Klein]

Molly,

How beautiful and open.  The categories & a narrative-free presentation
makes it especially useful.

SJ


On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 7:40 PM, MZMcBride  wrote:
>
> >I just published an attempt to aggregate some of the events that I think
> >are particularly informative given what's been going on:
> >http://mollywhite.net/wikimedia-timeline/
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Timeline of recent events at the Wikimedia Foundation

[GorillaWarfare]

Thank you all so much for your feedback! I've just gone through all the
suggestions that you've sent via emails, messages, IRCs, and pull requests
and am really thrilled with all the help. I believe I'm caught up (for
now!) with reading through all that I've received, and I've incorporated
many of them!

– Molly (GorillaWarfare)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Timeline of recent events at the Wikimedia Foundation

[MZMcBride]

GorillaWarfare wrote:
>Recent discussion of the Knowledge Engine/Wikimedia Discovery project,
>issues with senior leadership, lack of transparency, and the like has been
>fairly well spread across several Wikimedia projects and mailing lists, as
>well as on Facebook, in the media, and in other venues.
>
>I just published an attempt to aggregate some of the events that I think
>are particularly informative given what's been going on:
>http://mollywhite.net/wikimedia-timeline/
>
>I hope it's helpful, and please feel free to suggest changes if it's
>incomplete.

Thank you very much for creating and publishing this timeline, Molly. I
really appreciate that you built the timeline in a way that enables
tracking changes and allows for collaborative improvements. Well done!

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Timeline of recent events at the Wikimedia Foundation

[Charles Gregory]

That's a great wrap-up - thanks Molly!

For something a bit different, here is an outsiders view.  I found this on
reddit, posted by a user named Ken_Thomas (I don't know who this is, but it
seems to be someone vaguely aware of, but not heavily involved in, the
off-wiki side of things).  I thought it was worth sharing - even if there
are some factual inaccuracies and savage opinion - because it offers a much
different point of view from everyone here.

(Note that this is a copy of his post verbatim, and is *not my opinion)*

















*"From reading through the various articles, following the story for
awhile, and picking up data nuggets here and there, this is what I think is
going on.Wikimedia is a non-profit. Salaries there are pretty low for the
tech sector, and the workload is high. People who end up working there do
it because they believe in the mission. Over time, this has created a
pretty unique culture. The place is saturated with purists and idealists
who have good intentions but can be pretty insufferable about the whole
thing. They are also, generally speaking, not particularly disciplined and
not great business people.Tretikov was brought onboard to tighten things
up, basically. She comes from a business background. When she was hired all
the stories were about how she was going to 'save' Wikipedia by putting it
on a firm financial foundation and cracking the whip with the workforce.
I'm sure she admires the mission and thinks it's important and all that,
but I wouldn't put her in that 'purist and idealist' category at all.So
you've got this culture clash at the top, and the frustration from that has
been building for awhile.Some people had this idea to build a search engine
that would only search sites that offered 'free' information, probably
public domain or CC images, that sort of thing. Other people were irked
that Google is snagging Wikipedia's content and pasting it on their search
result pages. You get the impression that these two ideas came together and
they started some preliminary work on a search engine, saw how expensive it
was going to be, and applied for a grant to do it. The grant they got was
like 1/20th of what they requested, so they pretty much shut the project
down but were still noodling with the concept.None of that is really the
problem. Well, it was probably a dumb idea, but the search engine is kind
of the red herring here. The problem is that it was being done in
secret.Why? Because if you're from the business world, that's how things
are done.If you're a purist Wikipedian, it means you're literally
Hitler.Now it's coming out in the open and everybody is mad and no one can
understand why the other side is mad.Did that help?"*

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/wikipedia/comments/46rz1i/the_wikimedia_foundation_in_crisis_how_fast_is_it/d07tv95


Regards,
Charles / User:Chuq

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 11:43 PM, Steven Crossin  wrote:

> minor correction - the ? in my reply was meant to be a period. I'll be
> keeping an eye on this timeline and watch the events unfold.
>
> *Steven Crossin*
> *cro0...@gmail.com *
>
> On 22 February 2016 at 23:37, Chris Keating 
> wrote:
>
> > Yes - very handy - thanks GorillaWarfare!
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Steven Crossin 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Thank you Molly. This is indeed helpful?
> > >
> > > *Steven Crossin*
> > > *cro0...@gmail.com *
> > >
> > > On 22 February 2016 at 23:20, GorillaWarfare <
> > > gorillawarfarewikipe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Recent discussion of the Knowledge Engine/Wikimedia Discovery
> project,
> > > > issues with senior leadership, lack of transparency, and the like has
> > > been
> > > > fairly well spread across several Wikimedia projects and mailing
> lists,
> > > as
> > > > well as on Facebook, in the media, and in other venues.
> > > >
> > > > I just published an attempt to aggregate some of the events that I
> > think
> > > > are particularly informative given what's been going on:
> > > > http://mollywhite.net/wikimedia-timeline/
> > > >
> > > > I hope it's helpful, and please feel free to suggest changes if it's
> > > > incomplete.
> > > >
> > > > – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> > > 
> > >
> > ___
>

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Timeline of recent events at the Wikimedia Foundation

[Steven Crossin]

minor correction - the ? in my reply was meant to be a period. I'll be
keeping an eye on this timeline and watch the events unfold.

*Steven Crossin*
*cro0...@gmail.com *

On 22 February 2016 at 23:37, Chris Keating 
wrote:

> Yes - very handy - thanks GorillaWarfare!
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Steven Crossin 
> wrote:
>
> > Thank you Molly. This is indeed helpful?
> >
> > *Steven Crossin*
> > *cro0...@gmail.com *
> >
> > On 22 February 2016 at 23:20, GorillaWarfare <
> > gorillawarfarewikipe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Recent discussion of the Knowledge Engine/Wikimedia Discovery project,
> > > issues with senior leadership, lack of transparency, and the like has
> > been
> > > fairly well spread across several Wikimedia projects and mailing lists,
> > as
> > > well as on Facebook, in the media, and in other venues.
> > >
> > > I just published an attempt to aggregate some of the events that I
> think
> > > are particularly informative given what's been going on:
> > > http://mollywhite.net/wikimedia-timeline/
> > >
> > > I hope it's helpful, and please feel free to suggest changes if it's
> > > incomplete.
> > >
> > > – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> > > 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Timeline of recent events at the Wikimedia Foundation

[Florence Devouard]

Le 22/02/16 13:20, GorillaWarfare a écrit :

Recent discussion of the Knowledge Engine/Wikimedia Discovery project,
issues with senior leadership, lack of transparency, and the like has been
fairly well spread across several Wikimedia projects and mailing lists, as
well as on Facebook, in the media, and in other venues.

I just published an attempt to aggregate some of the events that I think
are particularly informative given what's been going on:
http://mollywhite.net/wikimedia-timeline/

I hope it's helpful, and please feel free to suggest changes if it's
incomplete.

– Molly (GorillaWarfare)
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Molly... Thank you ! Amazing job.

Florence


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Timeline of recent events at the Wikimedia Foundation

[Chris Keating]

Yes - very handy - thanks GorillaWarfare!

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Steven Crossin  wrote:

> Thank you Molly. This is indeed helpful?
>
> *Steven Crossin*
> *cro0...@gmail.com *
>
> On 22 February 2016 at 23:20, GorillaWarfare <
> gorillawarfarewikipe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Recent discussion of the Knowledge Engine/Wikimedia Discovery project,
> > issues with senior leadership, lack of transparency, and the like has
> been
> > fairly well spread across several Wikimedia projects and mailing lists,
> as
> > well as on Facebook, in the media, and in other venues.
> >
> > I just published an attempt to aggregate some of the events that I think
> > are particularly informative given what's been going on:
> > http://mollywhite.net/wikimedia-timeline/
> >
> > I hope it's helpful, and please feel free to suggest changes if it's
> > incomplete.
> >
> > – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Timeline of recent events at the Wikimedia Foundation

[Steven Crossin]

Thank you Molly. This is indeed helpful?

*Steven Crossin*
*cro0...@gmail.com *

On 22 February 2016 at 23:20, GorillaWarfare <
gorillawarfarewikipe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Recent discussion of the Knowledge Engine/Wikimedia Discovery project,
> issues with senior leadership, lack of transparency, and the like has been
> fairly well spread across several Wikimedia projects and mailing lists, as
> well as on Facebook, in the media, and in other venues.
>
> I just published an attempt to aggregate some of the events that I think
> are particularly informative given what's been going on:
> http://mollywhite.net/wikimedia-timeline/
>
> I hope it's helpful, and please feel free to suggest changes if it's
> incomplete.
>
> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> ___
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[Wikimedia-l] Timeline of recent events at the Wikimedia Foundation

[GorillaWarfare]

Recent discussion of the Knowledge Engine/Wikimedia Discovery project,
issues with senior leadership, lack of transparency, and the like has been
fairly well spread across several Wikimedia projects and mailing lists, as
well as on Facebook, in the media, and in other venues.

I just published an attempt to aggregate some of the events that I think
are particularly informative given what's been going on:
http://mollywhite.net/wikimedia-timeline/

I hope it's helpful, and please feel free to suggest changes if it's
incomplete.

– Molly (GorillaWarfare)
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