Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimédia France Governance review

[Balázs Viczián]

Thank you Asaf. This seems to be a mixture of ppl mgmt and org skills,
shifted heavily towards the latter. The last time I was at wmcon was 2014
[1] when this was bearly a topic at all, only touched it here and there a
bit, when it was inevitable.

Good to see the progress on this.

Hi Mike,

perhaps in the future one could undergo such a review before a crisis
happens. Like a medical checkup, not yearly thoufh, but say every 3-5 years
to prevent/treat in early stage such events.

So far all governance reviews (including this) were responses to a collapse.

[1]  https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2014



Michael Peel  ezt írta (2018. július 12., csütörtök):

> Nominally, the WMF is going to be the next Wikimedia organisation to do a
> governance review, as per:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/FDC_recommendations/2015-2016_
> round_2#Wikimedia_Foundation
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Minutes/2017-11-17,
> 18,19#Governance_Review
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> > On 11 Jul 2018, at 02:36, Balázs Viczián 
> wrote:
> >
> > This report is pretty useful in terms of comparing my chapter's policies
> to
> > this. Probably some fine tuning will follow. Thank you for sharing!
> >
> > Note the pattern: UK, Germany, France, all 'big' chapters. My guess is
> that
> > the next one will very likely to be another 'large' chapter (100+
> members,
> > multiple employees, many paralel projects etc)
> >
> > As the report says very few has at least some experience in running
> > organizations (true worldwide) so no suprise such events happen every few
> > years, not to say those that stay 'local'.
> >
> > Just having 50-100-150k edits is not enough to be a 'boss'
> >
> > Would love to see people management skills workshops, and organizational
> > skills (logistics) workshops...but I attend an event only every 2-3 years
> > (or less), so this is just an almost silent suggestion :)
> >
> > Balazs
> >
> > 2018. júl. 10. 7:44 ezt írta ("Alphos OGame" ):
> >
> > Forgive my (usual ?) bluntness, but I don't think congratulations are in
> > order for undertaking the governance review ;-)
> >
> > As a member and unwilling observer, I can tell you it was dearly needed,
> be
> > it by internal or external auditors, and mandated by the WMF.
> >
> > However, as a long time member of the community and of Wikimedia France,
> I
> > do salute the effort of publishing the results of the review, as the
> > previous board of directors probably wouldn't have wanted to publish
> > anything critical of their method of governance ; and the review covers
> > both old and more recent times.
> > That indeed deserves credit, so thank you Nadine !
> >
> > @ Cornelius : smart thinking on your part, collecting them in one place.
> I
> > hope there won't be any more crisis requiring a governance review in one
> of
> > our chapters, but in any case it will be interesting for all chapters to
> > know what to avoid in the future, and where to look for it, so thank you
> as
> > well.
> >
> > Roger / Alphos
> >
> >
> >
> >> Le 9 juil. 2018 à 13:44, Chris Keating  a
> > écrit :
> >>
> >> Congratulations to Wikimedia France for undertaking this review and
> >> publishing the results.
> >>
> >> I believe all of the 3 governance reviews are important reading for
> >> anyone involved with the WMF or any of the affiliates, and all have
> >> important lessons for the movement. It's interesting to note that this
> >> is the first one that touches on the WMF-affiliate relationship in
> >> much detail.
> >>
> >> Also - while so far governance reviews have only happened as a result
> >> of a crisis, this doesn't have to be the case! I would urge Wikimedia
> >> affiliates to take external advice on their governance, the
> >> suggestions offered by governance experts who know the laws, norms and
> >> cutlure in which you operate will be very helpful for you.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >> (who was Chair of Wikimedia UK at the point we had a governance
> review...)
> >>> On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 10:43 PM Nadine Le Lirzin <
> nlelir...@wikimedia.fr>
> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> As announced last month on this list[1], the Governance Assessment
> Report
> >>> by external auditors "Associés en gouvernance" has been published, and
> we
> >>> want to share it with you.
> >>>
> >>> The auditors did a great work, first in their rather good understanding
> > of
> >>> our movement complexity, and then in the numerous improvement
> suggestions
> >>> they delivered.
> >>>
> >>> The consultation of our members – to fully associate them to the
> > rebuilding
> >>> – is still in progress. Main changes will be submitted to a vote at
> next
> >>> General Assembly, by the end of the year.
> >>>
> >>> The document has been translated in English and is now available on
> >>> Commons[2].
> >>>
> >>> May these suggestions be useful not only for Wikimédia France, but also
> > for
> >>> any other chapter or affiliate that would be in need of governance
> advice
> 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimédia France Governance review

[Michael Peel]

Nominally, the WMF is going to be the next Wikimedia organisation to do a 
governance review, as per:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/FDC_recommendations/2015-2016_round_2#Wikimedia_Foundation
https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Minutes/2017-11-17,18,19#Governance_Review

Thanks,
Mike

> On 11 Jul 2018, at 02:36, Balázs Viczián  wrote:
> 
> This report is pretty useful in terms of comparing my chapter's policies to
> this. Probably some fine tuning will follow. Thank you for sharing!
> 
> Note the pattern: UK, Germany, France, all 'big' chapters. My guess is that
> the next one will very likely to be another 'large' chapter (100+ members,
> multiple employees, many paralel projects etc)
> 
> As the report says very few has at least some experience in running
> organizations (true worldwide) so no suprise such events happen every few
> years, not to say those that stay 'local'.
> 
> Just having 50-100-150k edits is not enough to be a 'boss'
> 
> Would love to see people management skills workshops, and organizational
> skills (logistics) workshops...but I attend an event only every 2-3 years
> (or less), so this is just an almost silent suggestion :)
> 
> Balazs
> 
> 2018. júl. 10. 7:44 ezt írta ("Alphos OGame" ):
> 
> Forgive my (usual ?) bluntness, but I don't think congratulations are in
> order for undertaking the governance review ;-)
> 
> As a member and unwilling observer, I can tell you it was dearly needed, be
> it by internal or external auditors, and mandated by the WMF.
> 
> However, as a long time member of the community and of Wikimedia France, I
> do salute the effort of publishing the results of the review, as the
> previous board of directors probably wouldn't have wanted to publish
> anything critical of their method of governance ; and the review covers
> both old and more recent times.
> That indeed deserves credit, so thank you Nadine !
> 
> @ Cornelius : smart thinking on your part, collecting them in one place. I
> hope there won't be any more crisis requiring a governance review in one of
> our chapters, but in any case it will be interesting for all chapters to
> know what to avoid in the future, and where to look for it, so thank you as
> well.
> 
> Roger / Alphos
> 
> 
> 
>> Le 9 juil. 2018 à 13:44, Chris Keating  a
> écrit :
>> 
>> Congratulations to Wikimedia France for undertaking this review and
>> publishing the results.
>> 
>> I believe all of the 3 governance reviews are important reading for
>> anyone involved with the WMF or any of the affiliates, and all have
>> important lessons for the movement. It's interesting to note that this
>> is the first one that touches on the WMF-affiliate relationship in
>> much detail.
>> 
>> Also - while so far governance reviews have only happened as a result
>> of a crisis, this doesn't have to be the case! I would urge Wikimedia
>> affiliates to take external advice on their governance, the
>> suggestions offered by governance experts who know the laws, norms and
>> cutlure in which you operate will be very helpful for you.
>> 
>> Chris
>> (who was Chair of Wikimedia UK at the point we had a governance review...)
>>> On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 10:43 PM Nadine Le Lirzin 
> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> As announced last month on this list[1], the Governance Assessment Report
>>> by external auditors "Associés en gouvernance" has been published, and we
>>> want to share it with you.
>>> 
>>> The auditors did a great work, first in their rather good understanding
> of
>>> our movement complexity, and then in the numerous improvement suggestions
>>> they delivered.
>>> 
>>> The consultation of our members – to fully associate them to the
> rebuilding
>>> – is still in progress. Main changes will be submitted to a vote at next
>>> General Assembly, by the end of the year.
>>> 
>>> The document has been translated in English and is now available on
>>> Commons[2].
>>> 
>>> May these suggestions be useful not only for Wikimédia France, but also
> for
>>> any other chapter or affiliate that would be in need of governance advice
>>> or ideas.
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Nadine Le Lirzin
>>> *Wikimedia France Board Secretary*
>>> 
>>> 
>>> [1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2018-
> June/090413.html
>>> [2]
>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_France_-_
> Governance_Assessment_Report_-_2018.pdf
>>> ___
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> 
>> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimédia France Governance review

[Asaf Bartov]

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 8:36 AM Balázs Viczián 
wrote:

>
> Would love to see people management skills workshops, and organizational
> skills (logistics) workshops...but I attend an event only every 2-3 years
> (or less), so this is just an almost silent suggestion :)
>

Wikimedia conference in recent years have indeed been putting more and more
of an emphasis on people skills and governance skills.  Learning Days[1]
and the pre-conference Board  Training[2] at this year's WMCON are one
example, but regional and national conference have been seeing more
interest in these skills too.

Cheers,

A.

[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_and_Evaluation/News/Learning_Days_for_Wikimedia_Conference_2018
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2018/Pre-Conference_Boards_Training
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimédia France Governance review

[Alphos OGame]

Forgive my (usual ?) bluntness, but I don't think congratulations are in order 
for undertaking the governance review ;-)

As a member and unwilling observer, I can tell you it was dearly needed, be it 
by internal or external auditors, and mandated by the WMF.

However, as a long time member of the community and of Wikimedia France, I do 
salute the effort of publishing the results of the review, as the previous 
board of directors probably wouldn't have wanted to publish anything critical 
of their method of governance ; and the review covers both old and more recent 
times.
That indeed deserves credit, so thank you Nadine !

@ Cornelius : smart thinking on your part, collecting them in one place. I hope 
there won't be any more crisis requiring a governance review in one of our 
chapters, but in any case it will be interesting for all chapters to know what 
to avoid in the future, and where to look for it, so thank you as well.

Roger / Alphos


> Le 9 juil. 2018 à 13:44, Chris Keating  a écrit :
> 
> Congratulations to Wikimedia France for undertaking this review and
> publishing the results.
> 
> I believe all of the 3 governance reviews are important reading for
> anyone involved with the WMF or any of the affiliates, and all have
> important lessons for the movement. It's interesting to note that this
> is the first one that touches on the WMF-affiliate relationship in
> much detail.
> 
> Also - while so far governance reviews have only happened as a result
> of a crisis, this doesn't have to be the case! I would urge Wikimedia
> affiliates to take external advice on their governance, the
> suggestions offered by governance experts who know the laws, norms and
> cutlure in which you operate will be very helpful for you.
> 
> Chris
> (who was Chair of Wikimedia UK at the point we had a governance review...)
>> On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 10:43 PM Nadine Le Lirzin  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> As announced last month on this list[1], the Governance Assessment Report
>> by external auditors "Associés en gouvernance" has been published, and we
>> want to share it with you.
>> 
>> The auditors did a great work, first in their rather good understanding of
>> our movement complexity, and then in the numerous improvement suggestions
>> they delivered.
>> 
>> The consultation of our members – to fully associate them to the rebuilding
>> – is still in progress. Main changes will be submitted to a vote at next
>> General Assembly, by the end of the year.
>> 
>> The document has been translated in English and is now available on
>> Commons[2].
>> 
>> May these suggestions be useful not only for Wikimédia France, but also for
>> any other chapter or affiliate that would be in need of governance advice
>> or ideas.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Nadine Le Lirzin
>> *Wikimedia France Board Secretary*
>> 
>> 
>> [1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2018-June/090413.html
>> [2]
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_France_-_Governance_Assessment_Report_-_2018.pdf
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
>> 
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimédia France Governance review

[Chris Keating]

Congratulations to Wikimedia France for undertaking this review and
publishing the results.

I believe all of the 3 governance reviews are important reading for
anyone involved with the WMF or any of the affiliates, and all have
important lessons for the movement. It's interesting to note that this
is the first one that touches on the WMF-affiliate relationship in
much detail.

Also - while so far governance reviews have only happened as a result
of a crisis, this doesn't have to be the case! I would urge Wikimedia
affiliates to take external advice on their governance, the
suggestions offered by governance experts who know the laws, norms and
cutlure in which you operate will be very helpful for you.

Chris
(who was Chair of Wikimedia UK at the point we had a governance review...)
On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 10:43 PM Nadine Le Lirzin  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> As announced last month on this list[1], the Governance Assessment Report
> by external auditors "Associés en gouvernance" has been published, and we
> want to share it with you.
>
> The auditors did a great work, first in their rather good understanding of
> our movement complexity, and then in the numerous improvement suggestions
> they delivered.
>
> The consultation of our members – to fully associate them to the rebuilding
> – is still in progress. Main changes will be submitted to a vote at next
> General Assembly, by the end of the year.
>
> The document has been translated in English and is now available on
> Commons[2].
>
> May these suggestions be useful not only for Wikimédia France, but also for
> any other chapter or affiliate that would be in need of governance advice
> or ideas.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Nadine Le Lirzin
> *Wikimedia France Board Secretary*
>
>
> [1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2018-June/090413.html
> [2]
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_France_-_Governance_Assessment_Report_-_2018.pdf
> ___
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimédia France Governance review

[David Cuenca Tudela]

Hi Nadine,

Thanks for sharing the document with us. I read it and I found interesting
to see the different clashes:

- there is no awareness of the individual interpretations of our mission

- the community wants anarchism in order to feel free, however the
organization needs some kind of structure and specialization to be effective

- lobbing, advocacy, and governance are necessary for the community, but
since they are "invisible" activities, they are not valued by the community

- there is a big wish for openness in the community, however governance
requires some privacy as well

- employees can have too much influence in any organization if they
participate, but it is unfair to exclude them

- the WMF exercises power over the movement organizations, but the
organizations cannot exercise power over the WMF, creating a power
unbalance and mistrust

Besides of the recommendations on the document, it feels that there is the
need for more dialogue with involved parties to create a mutual
understanding. In the end it is a matter of trust, we can only trust
something if we know it, and if we understand the benefits that it creates
for us. I hope these topics are discussed in the Movement Strategy.

Regards,
Micru




On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 11:43 PM Nadine Le Lirzin 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> As announced last month on this list[1], the Governance Assessment Report
> by external auditors "Associés en gouvernance" has been published, and we
> want to share it with you.
>
> The auditors did a great work, first in their rather good understanding of
> our movement complexity, and then in the numerous improvement suggestions
> they delivered.
>
> The consultation of our members – to fully associate them to the rebuilding
> – is still in progress. Main changes will be submitted to a vote at next
> General Assembly, by the end of the year.
>
> The document has been translated in English and is now available on
> Commons[2].
>
> May these suggestions be useful not only for Wikimédia France, but also for
> any other chapter or affiliate that would be in need of governance advice
> or ideas.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Nadine Le Lirzin
> *Wikimedia France Board Secretary*
>
>
> [1]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2018-June/090413.html
> [2]
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_France_-_Governance_Assessment_Report_-_2018.pdf
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
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> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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> 



-- 
Etiamsi omnes, ego non
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimédia France Governance review

[Cornelius Kibelka]

Thank you very much, Nadine!

As it is, as far as I remember, the third governance review of a Wikimedia
affiliate, I just created a page on Meta where they can be collected. Feel
free to add/modify: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Governance_Review

Cheers
Cornelius

On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 at 08:59, Itzik - Wikimedia Israel <
it...@wikimedia.org.il> wrote:

> Hi Nadine,
>
> Thank you for sharing the report with us. I just gave a quick look at it,
> and I printed it so I could read it on the flight to Cape Town. But I agree
> with you that it's an important review and the recommendations are
> important and may be useful for all of us!
>
> Itzik
>
>
>
> *Itzik Edri*
> Chairperson
> it...@wikimedia.org.il
> +972-54-5878078
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 12:43 AM, Nadine Le Lirzin 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > As announced last month on this list[1], the Governance Assessment Report
> > by external auditors "Associés en gouvernance" has been published, and we
> > want to share it with you.
> >
> > The auditors did a great work, first in their rather good understanding
> of
> > our movement complexity, and then in the numerous improvement suggestions
> > they delivered.
> >
> > The consultation of our members – to fully associate them to the
> rebuilding
> > – is still in progress. Main changes will be submitted to a vote at next
> > General Assembly, by the end of the year.
> >
> > The document has been translated in English and is now available on
> > Commons[2].
> >
> > May these suggestions be useful not only for Wikimédia France, but also
> for
> > any other chapter or affiliate that would be in need of governance advice
> > or ideas.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Nadine Le Lirzin
> > *Wikimedia France Board Secretary*
> >
> >
> > [1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2018-
> > June/090413.html
> > [2]
> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_France_-_
> > Governance_Assessment_Report_-_2018.pdf
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
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-- 
Cornelius Kibelka
Program and Engagement Coordinator (PEC)
for the Wikimedia Conference

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
http://wikimedia.de

Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
http://spenden.wikimedia.de/

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimédia France Governance review

[Itzik - Wikimedia Israel]

Hi Nadine,

Thank you for sharing the report with us. I just gave a quick look at it,
and I printed it so I could read it on the flight to Cape Town. But I agree
with you that it's an important review and the recommendations are
important and may be useful for all of us!

Itzik



*Itzik Edri*
Chairperson
it...@wikimedia.org.il
+972-54-5878078



On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 12:43 AM, Nadine Le Lirzin 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> As announced last month on this list[1], the Governance Assessment Report
> by external auditors "Associés en gouvernance" has been published, and we
> want to share it with you.
>
> The auditors did a great work, first in their rather good understanding of
> our movement complexity, and then in the numerous improvement suggestions
> they delivered.
>
> The consultation of our members – to fully associate them to the rebuilding
> – is still in progress. Main changes will be submitted to a vote at next
> General Assembly, by the end of the year.
>
> The document has been translated in English and is now available on
> Commons[2].
>
> May these suggestions be useful not only for Wikimédia France, but also for
> any other chapter or affiliate that would be in need of governance advice
> or ideas.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Nadine Le Lirzin
> *Wikimedia France Board Secretary*
>
>
> [1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2018-
> June/090413.html
> [2]
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_France_-_
> Governance_Assessment_Report_-_2018.pdf
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> wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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