On 25 July 2012 22:40, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:
Those who read the signpost or follow arbcom for whatever reason will
know that “Fæ is indefinitely banned from the English Language
Wikipedia. He may request reconsideration of the ban six months after
the enactment of this remedy, and
I was recently involved in the interviews for the position of Chair of a
large body (much bigger than Wikimedia UK). This was a public
appointment, since the body is funded by government funds (but it is not
a registered charity).
Every candidate was asked the same question (at the end of
This is a healthy debate to have and one that I can assure you staff and
trustees have been engaging in too.
What I would caution against is too much dogmatism. This is what must
happen...' etc to paraphrase.
This is a *very* complicated issue with years of background.
As Chris Keating, a
I've already told two people I'm withdrawing my miniscule monthly
contribution if Ashley remains an official, on the grounds that geni
stated at the beginning of this thread.
Doug
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Jon Davies jon.dav...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
This is a healthy debate to have and
On 26 July 2012 09:17, Jon Davies jon.dav...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
This is a healthy debate to have and one that I can assure you staff and
trustees have been engaging in too.
What I would caution against is too much dogmatism. This is what must
happen...' etc to paraphrase.
This is a
On 26 July 2012 10:34, Thomas Morton morton.tho...@googlemail.com wrote:
Ok. I will lay out my thinking. Fae, it appears, genuinely has been
harassed.
True.
snip
Some of the concerns I have:
* Allegations of behind the scenes movement to avoid scrutiny, for which
Arbcom banned him. This
On 26 July 2012 09:17, Jon Davies jon.dav...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
And to put this in a human context the board is without a chair on this
issue as Fae is, quite properly, staying out of the discussions. This is
making reaching a consensus quite time consuming.
Then, rather obviously, they
That sounds very cool. Wikipedia with a p? Is that likely to reduce
or increase confusion compared with having Wikimedia? Is having both
too expensives? (I have no idea what the split between fixed and unit
costs are for freepost accounts.)
On 26 July 2012 11:53, Richard Symonds
*cue discussion on trademark we should identify ourselves to the public
with*
On 26 July 2012 12:26, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:
That sounds very cool. Wikipedia with a p? Is that likely to reduce
or increase confusion compared with having Wikimedia? Is having both
too
On 26 July 2012 12:58, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:
Does anyone know how likely the Royal Mail are to just deliver it
anyway if it has one letter wrong?
Well, there's only one way to find out -- send a letter to FREEPOST
WIKIMEDIA and see what happens. And if it does arrive at
Considering that most organisations simply have a Freepost address which is
a jumble of random letters, we've come very far!
On 26 July 2012 12:45, Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:
I love you guys, and I love this list :-)
OK, so: it's Wikipedia with a P, because hardly
There is bound to be a Postcode for that Freepost address, and if you write
to Wikimedia UK at that Postcode then I would be surprised if it was not
delivered.
WSC
On 26 July 2012 14:36, Deryck Chan deryckc...@gmail.com wrote:
Considering that most organisations simply have a Freepost address
Time to read
...and comment.
Dear stakeholder,
We're writing to inform you that today, Thursday 26 July 2012, the
Government published the responses it received during its consultation on
Copyright. The Government received 471 responses from interested parties.
The submitted responses,
On 26 July 2012 08:55, Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote:
No it isn't in any legalistic sense.
That is something of a strawman although I suspect those interested in
that line of argument could make a case based around the object to
promote and support the widest possible
As far as I'm concerned, there is no issue with the chair being banned,
particularly by a body that has strayed so far from its remit as the enwiki
ArbCom.
That committee levelled (or regurgitated) a series of allegations against Fae,
and when it was pointed out that most of those either
On 26 July 2012 15:04, Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
I suggest that anyone who wants to know a bit more about ArbCom, and how it
works behind the scenes, have a chat with Charles Matthews or James
Forrester - both previous arbitrators. I was an arbitrator too - and
On 26 July 2012 15:31, HJ Mitchell hjmitch...@ymail.com wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, there is no issue with the chair being banned,
particularly by a body that has strayed so far from its remit as the enwiki
ArbCom.
Again if you read my opening post you will find that that your opinion
of
On 26 July 2012 15:53, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:
On 26 July 2012 15:31, HJ Mitchell hjmitch...@ymail.com wrote:
It would be a grave error for the WMUK board to allow its decision making to
be dictated by the whims and fancies of ArbCom.
Again no one is suggesting that. I don't think
On 26 July 2012 17:21, Peter Cohen pet...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
Unfortunately the WCA did not do so when electing its chair. Fae failed to
warn those present that he was the subject of an Arbcom case which had
reached its proposed decision stage that already had substantial support
for a
On 26 July 2012 17:30, Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.comwrote:
On 26 July 2012 17:21, Peter Cohen pet...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
By allowing Fae to go ahead in having himself put forward as chair of the
WCA, the Chief Executive and Trustees of WMUK have already scored an
On 26 July 2012 17:51, Deryck Chan deryckc...@gmail.com wrote:
On 26 July 2012 17:30, Charles Matthews
charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.comwrote:
On 26 July 2012 17:21, Peter Cohen pet...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
By allowing Fae to go ahead in having himself put forward as chair of
the
On a couple of points of fact:
The motion to ban Fae was not presented by ArbCom until Monday 16 July and
came as a complete surprise to those of us who had been following the case.
Prior to that Fae had voluntarily resigned his sysop and declared that he
would not seen another RfA for at least
On 26 July 2012 17:21, Peter Cohen pet...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
By allowing Fae to go ahead in having himself put forward as chair of the
WCA, the Chief Executive and Trustees of WMUK have already scored an own
goal as far as future relations with other Chapters are concerned.
Fae didn't
On 26 July 2012 17:45, Thomas Morton morton.tho...@googlemail.com wrote:
Is there the possibility of WMUK making a statement to denounce the position
of the Olympic Committee in relation to this - it might get press interest.
Without having even attempted to persuade the OC to change their
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Charles Matthews
charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote:
On 26 July 2012 17:33, Martin Peeks martin...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 5:30 PM, Charles Matthews
charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote:
Deryck Chan, who was at the relevant meeting (I
Firozali A.Mulla DBA P.O.Box 38100 Dar-Es-Salaam Tanzania___
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http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
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Margarine is
made from plastic MARGARINE, when first produced, is a grey, smelly plastic. It
needs ... a grey, smelly grease. Yet many health ...There you are you eating
plastic? Is that why we need more plastic bottles? The only reason people but
this instead of butter is butter is high in
On 26 July 2012 18:19, Martin Peeks martin...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Charles Matthews
The English Wikipedia is indeed the flagship, still. I believe the
Spanish Wikipedia gets the second-largest number of readers. But the
figure for editors given at Wikimania
On 26 July 2012 19:19, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:
On 26 July 2012 17:39, Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com
wrote:
The English Wikipedia is indeed the flagship, still. I believe the
Spanish Wikipedia gets the second-largest number of readers. But the
figure
But it is a non dairy subject. We are not talking about butter here ;-)
On Jul 26, 2012 7:12 PM, Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk
wrote:
I'll look into this tomorrow. After I've dealt with non-dairy subjects.
Richard Symonds, Wikimedia UK
On Jul 26, 2012 6:49 PM, Firozali A
On 26 July 2012 19:26, Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote:
Yes, but. EnWP really only has 3500 active editors, and saying it has
35K is grossly misleading. In any case I was taking 4000 active on
the English Wikipedia in a significant way editors for my 5%. (I so
didn't
Exactly! We're talking about plastic, apparently.
Richard Symonds, Wikimedia UK
On Jul 26, 2012 7:27 PM, Theresa Knott theresakn...@gmail.com wrote:
But it is a non dairy subject. We are not talking about butter here ;-)
On Jul 26, 2012 7:12 PM, Richard Symonds
I demand that WMUK immediately disclose all funds that have gone to
people that might have spent it on margarine. The members deserve to
know the truth!
On 26 July 2012 19:38, Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Exactly! We're talking about plastic, apparently.
Richard
It is a deeply unfortunate situation. A few months ago if anyone had said
to me that Arbcom were capable of some of their recent behaviour then I
would have been inclined to defend Arbcom. But I now find myself almost
agreeing with David Gerard's assessment of them.
To my mind the worst thing
On 26/07/12 19:39, Thomas Dalton wrote:
I demand that WMUK immediately disclose all funds that have gone to
people that might have spent it on margarine. The members deserve to
know the truth!
The truth is Rotten.
Gordo
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The problem seems to be spreading.
I'll get my coat...
On 26 July 2012 14:12, Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
I'll look into this tomorrow. After I've dealt with non-dairy subjects.
Richard Symonds, Wikimedia UK
On Jul 26, 2012 6:49 PM, Firozali A Mulla
On 26 July 2012 20:01, WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@gmail.com wrote:
My suggestion would be that Fae use the available appeal processes, and that
hopefully Arbcom can be reformed or brought to its senses.
What appeal processes? Arbcom aren't going to just change their minds.
The
On 26 July 2012 20:14, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:
It could create some
negative PR for the movement generally due to internal conflict, but
we can survive that.
Everyone else thinks the arbcom is insane too, AFAICT. If WMUK says
um, no to such obvious railroading, it will
On 26 July 2012 20:31, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
Everyone else thinks the arbcom is insane too, AFAICT. If WMUK says
um, no to such obvious railroading, it will certainly not be to
WMUK's discredit.
The general public don't know ArbCom exists, and the general
Wikimedian doesn't
On 26 July 2012 20:37, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
On 26 July 2012 20:33, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:
The general public don't know ArbCom exists, and the general
Wikimedian doesn't know enough about it to have an opinion.
This body you've never heard of and don't
What is the governance structure of ArbCom?
Gordo
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On 26 July 2012 20:39, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:
Fae is banned from wikipedia. Again if you read my opening post you
will find that the mechanism is quite quite irrelevant.
Your opening post contains a number of unsubstantiated assertions.
Clearly the people disagreeing with you disagree
On 26 July 2012 20:51, WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@gmail.com wrote:
There are several appeals possible. Jimmy has indicated that he wants to be
replaced as the appeal route for Arbcom decisions, and that he will be
giving up some of his Founder powers later this year. So Fae could
On 26 July 2012 20:59, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:
An assertion is not an argument. It can be contradicted. It cannot be
countered.
Which is why my initial assertion was backed up by a number of lines
of argument.
--
geni
___
I did read the case, and the only accusation that has any evidence (or
is even coherently made) is the misuse of multiple accounts. That
doesn't warrant an indefinite ban. The ban is because he had the
audacity to speak to a member of Foundation staff while waiting for a
lift... (there was
David Gerard will explain all on BBC TV and radio in the morning
And there will be no drooling morons or batshit insanity.
Gordo
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On 26/07/12 20:59, Thomas Dalton wrote:
An assertion is not an argument. It can be contradicted. It cannot be countered.
Didn't Karl Popper say that?
Gordo
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On 26 July 2012 15:39, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:
Fae is banned from wikipedia.
No he isn't.
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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On 26 July 2012 21:48, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On 26 July 2012 15:39, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:
Fae is banned from wikipedia.
No he isn't.
“Fæ is indefinitely banned from the English Language
Wikipedia. He may request reconsideration of the ban six months after
the
On 26 July 2012 17:14, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:
On 26 July 2012 21:48, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On 26 July 2012 15:39, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:
Fae is banned from wikipedia.
No he isn't.
“Fæ is indefinitely banned from the English Language
Wikipedia. He may
May I propose a toast...
On 26 July 2012 20:08, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
The problem seems to be spreading.
I'll get my coat...
On 26 July 2012 14:12, Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk
wrote:
I'll look into this tomorrow. After I've dealt with
On 26 July 2012 22:43, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
In view of the nature of your error, I was using Simple English.
If there is a point you wish to make please do so in a direct and
straightforward manner. The issue is messy enough without people
engaging in game playing.
--
On 26 July 2012 22:54, Deryck Chan deryckc...@gmail.com wrote:
May I propose a toast...
Ah, now there I have to agree with Mr Mulla. If you're going to have
toast, it really does have to be butter...
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On 26 July 2012 22:58, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:
On 26 July 2012 22:54, Deryck Chan deryckc...@gmail.com wrote:
May I propose a toast...
Ah, now there I have to agree with Mr Mulla. If you're going to have
toast, it really does have to be butter...
We've got into a bit of
On 26 July 2012 20:01, WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@gmail.comwrote:
It is a deeply unfortunate situation. A few months ago if anyone had said
to me that Arbcom were capable of some of their recent behaviour then I
would have been inclined to defend Arbcom. But I now find myself almost
And all we're really doing is churning out one-liners...
Richard Symonds, Wikimedia UK
On Jul 26, 2012 11:00 PM, James Farrar james.far...@gmail.com wrote:
On 26 July 2012 22:58, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:
On 26 July 2012 22:54, Deryck Chan deryckc...@gmail.com wrote:
May
Hi all,
I'm sending this statement on behalf of the WMUK Board:
--
As some members of Wikimedia UK will know, our Chair, Ashley Van Haeften, user
name Fae, has been the subject of sanctions by the Arbitration Committee of the
English Wikipedia (Arbcom), the volunteer committee that exists to
On 26 July 2012 17:55, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:
On 26 July 2012 22:43, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
The issue is messy enough without people engaging in game playing.
...use Wesh [sic] or your preferred version of Gaelic. PKB.
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
*Bzzzt*
Repetition.
:)
On 26 July 2012 23:05, Stevie Benton stevie.ben...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Yes, but there's no need to spread it.
On Jul 26, 2012 11:02 PM, Richard Symonds
richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
And all we're really doing is churning out one-liners...
Richard
On 26 July 2012 23:00, Deryck Chan deryckc...@gmail.com wrote:
On 26 July 2012 20:01, WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@gmail.comwrote:
It is a deeply unfortunate situation. A few months ago if anyone had said
to me that Arbcom were capable of some of their recent behaviour then I
would
On 26 July 2012 23:17, WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@gmail.comwrote:
On 26 July 2012 23:00, Deryck Chan deryckc...@gmail.com wrote:
On 26 July 2012 20:01, WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@gmail.comwrote:
It is a deeply unfortunate situation. A few months ago if anyone had
said to
On 26 July 2012 18:12, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:
Oh. Spelling flames.
No.
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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On 27 July 2012 00:10, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote:
Is this going to be published somewhere other than on this list, which
recently became a non-public list?
It is a public list. Anyone can subscribe.
The archives are restricted to list members, despite a clear consensus
being
On 27 July 2012 00:26, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l says its a
private list
It says: This is a private list, which means that the list of members
is not available to non-members.
That is a very specific meaning of private.
On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:
On 27 July 2012 00:26, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l says its a
private list
It says: This is a private list, which means that the list of members
On 27 July 2012 01:21, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote:
It isn't public. The software considers it private. Emails to the
list can be claimed to have been sent under the assumption that it
isn't going to be published on the web.
Who cares what the software thinks? Anyone can subscribe
I have forwarded the statement to wikimedia-l.
Seddon
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 01:23:41 +0100
From: thomas.dal...@gmail.com
To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [WMUK Board] Statement regarding Ashley Van
Haeften, Chair of Wikimedia UK
On 27 July 2012 01:21,
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