Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Foundation-l] sue and be damned FOI to NPG
I have a response from the National Portrait Gallery's press spokesperson that they are drafting a release to issue today. Obviously they've received a lot of interest on this. Brian. -Original Message- From: wikimediauk-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimediauk-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Peter Coombe Sent: 12 July 2009 11:18 To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Foundation-l] sue and be damned FOI to NPG But even if FOI is deemed to apply to photographs of artwork, they could release the files and still maintain their claim of copyright http://www.dca.gov.uk/foi/yourRights/index.htm#receive They could also claim commercial interest (IMO reasonably) as a reason not to comply with such a FOI request, but this is at least tested against the public interest. http://www.dca.gov.uk/foi/yourRights/exemptions.htm#43 Pete / the wub 2009/7/12 Dahsun dah...@yahoo.com I agree that the WMUK shouldn't get directly involved, but if without making any reference to the case in hand they request the same information under the FOI then I would have thought they were indirectly rather than directly involved. As for whether the FOI has an exemption for artwork, well I'd be interested in what the lawyers have to say on this as there is some legalese in the legislation that I can't get my head around. However the National Portrait Gallery has its own handy http://www.npg.org.uk/about/foi.php section on FOI, and I don't read that as containing any substantial claim of exemption from the Act for the gallery. They also have some fine objectives including the provision of access to the national collection of portraits for all sections of the population but reassuringly not the restriction of access to the national collection of portraits only to those who can visit the gallery in person or maximising of the commercial use of the images --- On Sat, 11/7/09, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: From: David Gerard dger...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Foundation-l] sue and be damned FOI to NPG To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Saturday, 11 July, 2009, 1:00 PM 2009/7/11 Dahsun dah...@yahoo.com: Perhaps the air would be slightly clearer if Wikimedia UK were to make Freedom of Information Act requests to the NPG and other Publicly funded galleries for the highest def digital photos they have available of any artworks in their possession. WMUK getting directly involved in this would be very bad for WMUK's (legal) perceived separation from WMF. Of course, WMUK could meaningfully comment that claiming copyright on something four hundred years old is more than a little odious - it's not like the painter will paint another painting if only th NPG can make legal threats. That said, your approach is most certainly particularly amusing :-D I expect they'd claim these were commercial works and the core of their business or somesuch. - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
[Wikimediauk-l] Has anyone been in touch with NPG yet?
I was going to call NPG this morning first thing (as a volunteer, to see what could be reasonably done to avert a public battle - our own museum/gallery liaison volunteers can really, really do without a public battle fouling up their ongoing efforts) but was awake all night with a sick child and so I just got up ... has anyone here called yet, as a volunteer? I know Physchim62, who did a lot to get the American Chemical Society working with us, was going to call. Has anyone else? (I don't hold out much hope for this - the NPG's position has been completely consistent and completely uncooperative for many years.. But it's always worth asking.) It's reasonably important to avoid discussing the possible legal case, for Dcoetzee's sake, *but* the NPG's lawyers have effectively written a press release read by ten thousand Wikimedians and a million Slashdot readers, that clearly does directly and personally affect a lot of them. I bet it's been more widely read than any intentional press release of theirs has been. Ideal outcome: PD everything, they welcome a team of our photographers in. Plausible good outcome: We put up the hi-res images with notes that they are PD in the US but the NPG claims copyright in Europe and releases them under CC-by-sa, and full credit is requested in either case. (Copyleft is not as ideal as PD, but it's plenty good enough for us.) We issue press releases lauding the NPG to the skies and say nice things about them forever. Another plausible good outcome: They welcome a team of our photographers in. Careful supervision, etc. Then we can do stuff like infrared shots as well (which can show interesting things about a painting's restoration history). Awful outcome: great big legal battle. Bad outcome: mainstream press about this at all, really. The NPG probably doesn't see it that way. Any other possible outcomes to list? Additional data point: the NPG has removed the hi-res versions. Thus, the Wikimedia copies are the *only* copies currently available. This makes it actually culturally important for us to keep them up! - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] FW: National Portrait Gallery threat of legal action
2009/7/13 Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org: Statement from the National Portrait Gallery. Hmm total cost to them works out at £16 per image. -- geni ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] FW: National Portrait Gallery threat of legal action
They seem quite reasonable really... From: wikimediauk-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimediauk-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Brian McNeil Sent: 13 July 2009 18:33 To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikimediauk-l] FW: National Portrait Gallery threat of legal action Statement from the National Portrait Gallery. -Original Message- From: Eleanor Macnair [mailto:emacn...@npg.org.uk] Sent: 13 July 2009 16:41 To: Brian McNeil Subject: RE: National Portrait Gallery threat of legal action Dear Brian As requested please find attached a statement from the National Portrait Gallery about the matter referred to in your e-mail. I do hope this is helpful and please do let me know if you have any further questions. Best wishes Eleanor -- Eleanor Macnair Press Officer Communications Development National Portrait Gallery St Martin's Place London WC2H OHE Direct T 020 7321 6620 F 020 7930 1998 www.npg.org.uk http://www.npg.org.uk/ click here http://www.patronmailuk.com/bnmailweb/PatronSetup?oid=29 to register for the Gallery's e-newsletter This e-mail, and any attachment, is intended only for the attention of the addressee(s). Its unauthorised use, disclosure, storage or copying is not permitted. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all copies and inform the sender by return e-mail. P Please consider the environment; do you really need to print this email? _ From: Brian McNeil [mailto:brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org] Sent: 11 July 2009 16:23 To: Eleanor Macnair Cc: sc...@wikinewsie.org Subject: National Portrait Gallery threat of legal action Dear Eleanor, I am a freelance journalist looking into reports that the NPR has threatened legal action against a non-resident U.S. citizen. The following email has come into my possession, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Dcoetzee/NPG_legal_threat I have contacted the culture secretary, shadow culture secretary, and a number of organisations within the UK for comment. I would appreciate a statement of the NPR's position on this, and if they consider the current legislation that makes such threats possible appropriate in the modern world. Regards, Brian McNeil Wikinews. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] FW: National Portrait Gallery threat of legal action
2009/7/14 geni geni...@gmail.com: 2009/7/13 Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org: Statement from the National Portrait Gallery. Hmm total cost to them works out at £16 per image. Well, it will be less than that after they've done more images - the fixed costs for the equipment will be shared over more images then. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] FW: National Portrait Gallery threat of legalaction
Yet, here is some earlier correspondence that apparently doesn't exist. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Kaldari/NPG_email Brian. -Original Message- From: wikimediauk-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimediauk-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Tom Holden Sent: 14 July 2009 00:15 To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] FW: National Portrait Gallery threat of legalaction They seem quite reasonable really... From: wikimediauk-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimediauk-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Brian McNeil Sent: 13 July 2009 18:33 To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikimediauk-l] FW: National Portrait Gallery threat of legal action Statement from the National Portrait Gallery. -Original Message- From: Eleanor Macnair [mailto:emacn...@npg.org.uk] Sent: 13 July 2009 16:41 To: Brian McNeil Subject: RE: National Portrait Gallery threat of legal action Dear Brian As requested please find attached a statement from the National Portrait Gallery about the matter referred to in your e-mail. I do hope this is helpful and please do let me know if you have any further questions. Best wishes Eleanor -- Eleanor Macnair Press Officer Communications Development National Portrait Gallery St Martin's Place London WC2H OHE Direct T 020 7321 6620 F 020 7930 1998 www.npg.org.uk http://www.npg.org.uk/ click here http://www.patronmailuk.com/bnmailweb/PatronSetup?oid=29 to register for the Gallery's e-newsletter This e-mail, and any attachment, is intended only for the attention of the addressee(s). Its unauthorised use, disclosure, storage or copying is not permitted. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all copies and inform the sender by return e-mail. P Please consider the environment; do you really need to print this email? _ From: Brian McNeil [mailto:brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org] Sent: 11 July 2009 16:23 To: Eleanor Macnair Cc: sc...@wikinewsie.org Subject: National Portrait Gallery threat of legal action Dear Eleanor, I am a freelance journalist looking into reports that the NPR has threatened legal action against a non-resident U.S. citizen. The following email has come into my possession, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Dcoetzee/NPG_legal_threat I have contacted the culture secretary, shadow culture secretary, and a number of organisations within the UK for comment. I would appreciate a statement of the NPR's position on this, and if they consider the current legislation that makes such threats possible appropriate in the modern world. Regards, Brian McNeil Wikinews. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
