Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Mass image uploads expert

[Charles Matthews]

> 
> On 15 October 2016 at 14:08 Fæ  wrote:
> 



>If there's an area of copyright that interests you, it can really help
Commons to follow the copyright noticeboard [3] and participate in
some deletion request discussions. Asking questions and testing your
own understanding of the policies and UK copyright legislation would
quickly make you a valued participant. Getting the balance right of
what constitutes "significant doubt" and cases where the research done
is sufficient to keep an image on Commons within the law, even if much
remains unknown, is a constant challenge and one where there is a real
shortage of UK specific understanding and viewpoints.


I should certainly argue that WMUK would benefit from the development of its own
IP materials.

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Mass image uploads expert

[Fæ]

A really useful and under recognized part of Wikimedia Commons are the
more detailed deletion request discussions, and the supporting
policies, guidelines and essays for interpreting copyright.

It's worth reading through [1:Licencing], though I find [2:Copyright
rules by territory] a constantly useful reference, which is updated
frequently as the law changes in different countries.

Unfortunately "orphan works" is a difficult area for copyright, made a
lot worse by having to worry about publication rights, which can add
decades of copyright protection to otherwise extremely old or works
with unknown authors which should otherwise be public domain. In a
recent discussion there were examples of UK works as old as 1860s that
had legitimate copyright claims.

If there's an area of copyright that interests you, it can really help
Commons to follow the copyright noticeboard [3] and participate in
some deletion request discussions. Asking questions and testing your
own understanding of the policies and UK copyright legislation would
quickly make you a valued participant. Getting the balance right of
what constitutes "significant doubt" and cases where the research done
is sufficient to keep an image on Commons within the law, even if much
remains unknown, is a constant challenge and one where there is a real
shortage of UK specific understanding and viewpoints.

Once the UK leaves Europe, there's likely to be a lot of
misunderstanding and misinterpretation of how we comply with EU
legislation. I have no doubt that volunteers interested and following
the nuts and bolts of changes in UK copyright law will be much in
demand. I never thought that I would be referenced as being
knowledgeable in UK and US military related copyright. :-)

Links:
1. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Licensing
2. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Copyright_rules_by_territory
3. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright

Fae

On 15 October 2016 at 13:25,   wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> There was some discussion of orphan works in Wikimedia UK when the new
> legislation was introduced in May 2015. Please check government guidance in
> this. Unfortunately the new regulations are not very favourable to us.
> Arguing that creating exact copies created a new copyright would be
> counterproductive as regards the use of non-orphan work that has become
> public domain and copied by whoever.
>
> all the best
>
> Fabian
>
> aka Leutha
>
> On 15 October 2016 at 13:06 John Lubbock 
> wrote:
>
> Could they not be declared orphan works if there was some due diligence
> done to establish that the original authors could not be found? Couldn't
> you argue that the authorisation for making a copy of the originals
> produced a new copyright which was held by the museum? Presumably if
> someone's grandfather left them the collection, it's their copyright to
> release, but if a copy of the image was made in 1970 then surely the
> copyright on that copy is the museum's? I've been trying to understand
> copyright for years now and it's still a bit of a mystery to me. Especially
> with photos it seems flexible to an extent.
>
> On 14 October 2016 at 09:15, Jonathan Cardy 
> wrote:
>
> Fæ would be my first suggestion for a mass upload if he is available and
> the collection is suitable. But reading through that link I'm not sure we
> can use that collection. Apparently it was started forty years ago by a
> curator who invited people to bring in historic photos and lend them to the
> museum to make a copy.
>
> I'm sure that's fine for the Museum to use. But I wouldn't care to argue
> on Commons that this constitutes a CC-BY-SA 3 licence for all those images.
> Hopefully there will be a subset which can be dated early enough to argue
> PD. Maybe there are some where the rights owner can be traced, but I'd
> suspect there will be a lot of photographers from an era where some will
> have died long enough ago to make it difficult to trace the heirs, and
> others may even still be with us. At some point in the future no doubt we
> can import the lot, provided a digital copy is still extant.
>
> Another reason why the movement needs a sealed repository from which stuff
> can be migrated when it is out of copyright.
>
> Depending on the age range of the images and the quality of the metadata
> there could be a useful proportion that would be safe to upload. It all
> depends on the ratio of "my grandfather died in 1880 and left us this
> collection" to "my grandfather died in 1980 and left us this collection".
>
> WSC
>
> On 14 Oct 2016, at 08:18,   wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisation
> project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (see
> https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/ )
> aiming to digitise 15,000 

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Mass image uploads expert

[leutha]

Hi all,There was some discussion of orphan works in Wikimedia UK when the new legislation was introduced in May 2015. Please check government guidance in this. Unfortunately the new regulations are not very favourable to us. Arguing that creating exact copies created a new copyright would be counterproductive as regards the use of non-orphan work that has become public domain and copied by whoever.all the bestFabianaka LeuthaOn 15 October 2016 at 13:06 John Lubbock  wrote:Could they not be declared orphan works if there was some due diligencedone to establish that the original authors could not be found? Couldn'tyou argue that the authorisation for making a copy of the originalsproduced a new copyright which was held by the museum? Presumably ifsomeone's grandfather left them the collection, it's their copyright torelease, but if a copy of the image was made in 1970 then surely thecopyright on that copy is the museum's? I've been trying to understandcopyright for years now and it's still a bit of a mystery to me. Especiallywith photos it seems flexible to an extent.On 14 October 2016 at 09:15, Jonathan Cardy wrote:Fæ would be my first suggestion for a mass upload if he is available andthe collection is suitable. But reading through that link I'm not sure wecan use that collection. Apparently it was started forty years ago by acurator who invited people to bring in historic photos and lend them to themuseum to make a copy.I'm sure that's fine for the Museum to use. But I wouldn't care to argueon Commons that this constitutes a CC-BY-SA 3 licence for all those images.Hopefully there will be a subset which can be dated early enough to arguePD. Maybe there are some where the rights owner can be traced, but I'dsuspect there will be a lot of photographers from an era where some willhave died long enough ago to make it difficult to trace the heirs, andothers may even still be with us. At some point in the future no doubt wecan import the lot, provided a digital copy is still extant.Another reason why the movement needs a sealed repository from which stuffcan be migrated when it is out of copyright.Depending on the age range of the images and the quality of the metadatathere could be a useful proportion that would be safe to upload. It alldepends on the ratio of "my grandfather died in 1880 and left us thiscollection" to "my grandfather died in 1980 and left us this collection".WSCOn 14 Oct 2016, at 08:18,   wrote:Hi all,I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisationproject by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (seehttps://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/ )aiming to digitise 15,000 images.I have made an initial contact asking about licencing and sharing andmentioned “mass uploads” but I know very little about this. I believe therehave been some people who have done this for/with other GLAMS and/ordeveloped tools to handle this. Who would be the best person to put them intouch with if they come back to me and they are willing to release under asuitable licence?Rod___Wikimedia UK mailing listwikimediau...@wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-lWMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk___Wikimedia UK mailing listwikimediau...@wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-lWMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk___Wikimedia UK mailing listwikimediau...@wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-lWMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Mass image uploads expert

[John Lubbock]

Could they not be declared orphan works if there was some due diligence
done to establish that the original authors could not be found? Couldn't
you argue that the authorisation for making a copy of the originals
produced a new copyright which was held by the museum? Presumably if
someone's grandfather left them the collection, it's their copyright to
release, but if a copy of the image was made in 1970 then surely the
copyright on that copy is the museum's? I've been trying to understand
copyright for years now and it's still a bit of a mystery to me. Especially
with photos it seems flexible to an extent.

On 14 October 2016 at 09:15, Jonathan Cardy 
wrote:

> Fæ would be my first suggestion for a mass upload if he is available and
> the collection is suitable. But reading through that link I'm not sure we
> can use that collection. Apparently it was started forty years ago by a
> curator who invited people to bring in historic photos and lend them to the
> museum to make a copy.
>
> I'm sure that's fine for the Museum to use. But I wouldn't care to argue
> on Commons that this constitutes a CC-BY-SA 3 licence for all those images.
> Hopefully there will be a subset which can be dated early enough to argue
> PD. Maybe there are some where the rights owner can be traced, but I'd
> suspect there will be a lot of photographers from an era where some will
> have died long enough ago to make it difficult to trace the heirs, and
> others may even still be with us. At some point in the future no doubt we
> can import the lot, provided a digital copy is still extant.
>
> Another reason why the movement needs a sealed repository from which stuff
> can be migrated when it is out of copyright.
>
> Depending on the age range of the images and the quality of the metadata
> there could be a useful proportion that would be safe to upload. It all
> depends on the ratio of "my grandfather died in 1880 and left us this
> collection" to "my grandfather died in 1980 and left us this collection".
>
>
> WSC
>
>
> On 14 Oct 2016, at 08:18,   wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisation
> project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (see
> https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/ )
> aiming to digitise 15,000 images.
>
>
>
> I have made an initial contact asking about licencing and sharing and
> mentioned “mass uploads” but I know very little about this. I believe there
> have been some people who have done this for/with other GLAMS and/or
> developed tools to handle this. Who would be the best person to put them in
> touch with if they come back to me and they are willing to release under a
> suitable licence?
>
>
>
> Rod
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
>
> ___
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> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Mass image uploads expert

[WereSpielChequers]

Thanks Fae,

If this does come off and you have a residue of awkward to categorise ones
I might be available to sort them out if you can get them in a separate
temporary category. I helped WMIE with Wiki Loves monuments last year and
have nearly finshed the English residue of this years Wiki Loves Monuments.

On 14 October 2016 at 12:29, Fæ  wrote:

> Rod, I'd be happy to help with a call/video meeting, or to run the
> modest-sized batch upload when they are ready. The numbers mentioned
> may take just a day or two to upload. At this moment I'm the most
> active Commons uploader of GLAM media, the can see examples at
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/Project_list
>
> As Jonathan implies, the upload itself may be a bit technically
> challenging, but is not especially intellectually challenging for the
> institution. The hard part is the early spadework; examining the
> collection and ensuring that the metadata is reliably consistent,
> working out how to do some auto-categorization without potentially
> 'spamming' Commons categories, that the best use is made of Commons
> templates by intelligently mapping metadata to fields, and that the
> various copyright scenarios are hammered out in advance.
>
> The last issue of copyright may be as simple as applying the
> no-copyright-known template, or it may need a bit of programmer magic
> to automatically map copyright licenses based on metadata, and weed
> out images that may be challenged under our strict Commons policies of
> there being "no significant doubt". It's better to have those
> discussions early, rather than have multiple deletion requests to
> manage downstream.
>
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
> On 14 October 2016 at 09:15, Jonathan Cardy 
> wrote:
> > Fæ would be my first suggestion for a mass upload if he is available and
> the
> > collection is suitable. But reading through that link I'm not sure we can
> > use that collection. Apparently it was started forty years ago by a
> curator
> > who invited people to bring in historic photos and lend them to the
> museum
> > to make a copy.
> >
> > I'm sure that's fine for the Museum to use. But I wouldn't care to argue
> on
> > Commons that this constitutes a CC-BY-SA 3 licence for all those images.
> > Hopefully there will be a subset which can be dated early enough to argue
> > PD. Maybe there are some where the rights owner can be traced, but I'd
> > suspect there will be a lot of photographers from an era where some will
> > have died long enough ago to make it difficult to trace the heirs, and
> > others may even still be with us. At some point in the future no doubt we
> > can import the lot, provided a digital copy is still extant.
> >
> > Another reason why the movement needs a sealed repository from which
> stuff
> > can be migrated when it is out of copyright.
> >
> > Depending on the age range of the images and the quality of the metadata
> > there could be a useful proportion that would be safe to upload. It all
> > depends on the ratio of "my grandfather died in 1880 and left us this
> > collection" to "my grandfather died in 1980 and left us this collection".
> >
> >
> > WSC
> >
> >
> > On 14 Oct 2016, at 08:18,  
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> >
> >
> > I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisation
> > project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (see
> > https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/
> )
> > aiming to digitise 15,000 images.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have made an initial contact asking about licencing and sharing and
> > mentioned “mass uploads” but I know very little about this. I believe
> there
> > have been some people who have done this for/with other GLAMS and/or
> > developed tools to handle this. Who would be the best person to put them
> in
> > touch with if they come back to me and they are willing to release under
> a
> > suitable licence?
> >
> >
> >
> > Rod
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia UK mailing list
> > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> > WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Mass image uploads expert

[Fæ]

Rod, I'd be happy to help with a call/video meeting, or to run the
modest-sized batch upload when they are ready. The numbers mentioned
may take just a day or two to upload. At this moment I'm the most
active Commons uploader of GLAM media, the can see examples at
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/Project_list

As Jonathan implies, the upload itself may be a bit technically
challenging, but is not especially intellectually challenging for the
institution. The hard part is the early spadework; examining the
collection and ensuring that the metadata is reliably consistent,
working out how to do some auto-categorization without potentially
'spamming' Commons categories, that the best use is made of Commons
templates by intelligently mapping metadata to fields, and that the
various copyright scenarios are hammered out in advance.

The last issue of copyright may be as simple as applying the
no-copyright-known template, or it may need a bit of programmer magic
to automatically map copyright licenses based on metadata, and weed
out images that may be challenged under our strict Commons policies of
there being "no significant doubt". It's better to have those
discussions early, rather than have multiple deletion requests to
manage downstream.

Fae
-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

On 14 October 2016 at 09:15, Jonathan Cardy  wrote:
> Fæ would be my first suggestion for a mass upload if he is available and the
> collection is suitable. But reading through that link I'm not sure we can
> use that collection. Apparently it was started forty years ago by a curator
> who invited people to bring in historic photos and lend them to the museum
> to make a copy.
>
> I'm sure that's fine for the Museum to use. But I wouldn't care to argue on
> Commons that this constitutes a CC-BY-SA 3 licence for all those images.
> Hopefully there will be a subset which can be dated early enough to argue
> PD. Maybe there are some where the rights owner can be traced, but I'd
> suspect there will be a lot of photographers from an era where some will
> have died long enough ago to make it difficult to trace the heirs, and
> others may even still be with us. At some point in the future no doubt we
> can import the lot, provided a digital copy is still extant.
>
> Another reason why the movement needs a sealed repository from which stuff
> can be migrated when it is out of copyright.
>
> Depending on the age range of the images and the quality of the metadata
> there could be a useful proportion that would be safe to upload. It all
> depends on the ratio of "my grandfather died in 1880 and left us this
> collection" to "my grandfather died in 1980 and left us this collection".
>
>
> WSC
>
>
> On 14 Oct 2016, at 08:18,   wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisation
> project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (see
> https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/ )
> aiming to digitise 15,000 images.
>
>
>
> I have made an initial contact asking about licencing and sharing and
> mentioned “mass uploads” but I know very little about this. I believe there
> have been some people who have done this for/with other GLAMS and/or
> developed tools to handle this. Who would be the best person to put them in
> touch with if they come back to me and they are willing to release under a
> suitable licence?
>
>
>
> Rod
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Mass image uploads expert

[Lucy Crompton-Reid]

YES! Excellent :)

On 14 October 2016 at 09:38, Magnus Manske 
wrote:

> This, perhaps?
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/GLAMpipe
>
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:18 AM  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisation
>> project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (see
>> https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/
>> ) aiming to digitise 15,000 images.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have made an initial contact asking about licencing and sharing and
>> mentioned “mass uploads” but I know very little about this. I believe there
>> have been some people who have done this for/with other GLAMS and/or
>> developed tools to handle this. Who would be the best person to put them in
>> touch with if they come back to me and they are willing to release under a
>> suitable licence?
>>
>>
>>
>> Rod
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Wikimedia UK mailing list
>>
>> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
>>
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>>
>> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>



-- 

Lucy Crompton-Reid

Chief Executive

Wikimedia UK

+44 (0) 207 065 0991



Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.

Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The
Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent
non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility
for its contents.*
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Mass image uploads expert

[Magnus Manske]

This, perhaps?
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/GLAMpipe

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:18 AM  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisation
> project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (see
> https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/ )
> aiming to digitise 15,000 images.
>
>
>
> I have made an initial contact asking about licencing and sharing and
> mentioned “mass uploads” but I know very little about this. I believe there
> have been some people who have done this for/with other GLAMS and/or
> developed tools to handle this. Who would be the best person to put them in
> touch with if they come back to me and they are willing to release under a
> suitable licence?
>
>
>
> Rod
>
> ___
>
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
>
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
>
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Mass image uploads expert

[Gordon Joly]

On 14/10/16 08:18, r...@rodspace.co.uk wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>  
> 
> I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph
> digitisation project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum
> Research Group (see
> https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/
> ) aiming to digitise 15,000 images.
> 
>  
> 


Similar projects (small and large) can be found under the umbrella of
the "Community Archives and Heritage Group"

http://www.communityarchives.org.uk/

The 2016 Annual Award overall winner was the Dartmoor Trust.

http://dartmoortrust.org/

Gordo


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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Mass image uploads expert

[Jonathan Cardy]

Fæ would be my first suggestion for a mass upload if he is available and the 
collection is suitable. But reading through that link I'm not sure we can use 
that collection. Apparently it was started forty years ago by a curator who 
invited people to bring in historic photos and lend them to the museum to make 
a copy.

I'm sure that's fine for the Museum to use. But I wouldn't care to argue on 
Commons that this constitutes a CC-BY-SA 3 licence for all those images. 
Hopefully there will be a subset which can be dated early enough to argue PD. 
Maybe there are some where the rights owner can be traced, but I'd suspect 
there will be a lot of photographers from an era where some will have died long 
enough ago to make it difficult to trace the heirs, and others may even still 
be with us. At some point in the future no doubt we can import the lot, 
provided a digital copy is still extant.

Another reason why the movement needs a sealed repository from which stuff can 
be migrated when it is out of copyright.

Depending on the age range of the images and the quality of the metadata there 
could be a useful proportion that would be safe to upload. It all depends on 
the ratio of "my grandfather died in 1880 and left us this collection" to "my 
grandfather died in 1980 and left us this collection".


WSC


> On 14 Oct 2016, at 08:18,   wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
>  
> I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisation 
> project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (see 
> https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/ ) 
> aiming to digitise 15,000 images.
>  
> I have made an initial contact asking about licencing and sharing and 
> mentioned “mass uploads” but I know very little about this. I believe there 
> have been some people who have done this for/with other GLAMS and/or 
> developed tools to handle this. Who would be the best person to put them in 
> touch with if they come back to me and they are willing to release under a 
> suitable licence?
>  
> Rod
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
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[Wikimediauk-l] Mass image uploads expert

[rod]

Hi all,

 

I have just spotted an announcement of a historic photograph digitisation 
project by the friends of the Somerset Life Museum Research Group (see 
https://somersetrurallifemuseum.org.uk/2016/10/13/digitisation-project/ ) 
aiming to digitise 15,000 images.

 

I have made an initial contact asking about licencing and sharing and mentioned 
“mass uploads” but I know very little about this. I believe there have been 
some people who have done this for/with other GLAMS and/or developed tools to 
handle this. Who would be the best person to put them in touch with if they 
come back to me and they are willing to release under a suitable licence?

 

Rod

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