[Wikitech-l] The Damned Commons Image Deletion Cycle
I have just had to deal with this - AGAIN - and would like to rail for a moment, hoping to provoke discussion to promote change. I posit that this is big enough to deserve a Foundation-wide venue for initial discussion so am including Wikitech-L. Most of us are probably familiar with the cycle: Person A on en.wp (or, any project) uploads an image which is apparently public domain or free use by any reasonable standard. It gets put on article X. There is much rejoicing. Person B later thinks Oh, this is something other projects might use, and it's 'free', so... and uploads it to Commons. It then gets deleted at en.wp by a helpful bot. Person C on Commons later identifies that it fails to be an entirely free piece under the much-stricter Commons rules, due to some factor that A and B were unaware of. Person C nominates it for deletion there. Poof. Gone. Now, we have NO image, for something that is sufficiently legal under our rules and the law for use on en.wp (and likely, most of the rest of the projects). A delinker bot helpfully comes along and nukes references to the image off the pages that used to have it. Maintainers who miss the bot edit fail to notice that it's gone. Many months or years go along and finally someone notices, and either is an admin and restores the image on en.wp or finds an admin who restores it on en.wp. Now, for someone who sees images as an integral part of the total READERSHIP value we present, in terms of helping people understand things by drawing their attention and expressing ideas and history in a visual manner, the long periods where we've lost all image are mind-numbingly counter to our core mission. That we've evolved into this cycle due to bureaucratic friction does not make it acceptable. PROPOSED: This is not acceptable. Something must be done. SUGGESTED FIX #1: Create a parallel Uncommons project, for shared images which meet minimum project legal non-copyvio standards but do not meet the threshold Commons is insisting on (or we have defined Commons to be). This requires coding in the WMF to allow a parallel project as image source, and would require that Commons' deletion process be modified such that deletions for copyright niggles be a shift-to-Uncommons rather than an outright delete. SUGGESTED FIX #2: Stop deleting things from local projects when they're uploaded to commons. This requires additional diskspace from the Foundation (by some as-yet unknown amount). Ops team - Could you attempt to determine if this would be significant, troublesome, small enough to not be significant, etc? These are not the only two possible solutions, but they come to mind immediately (and have previously when I thought of this). Additional fix concepts solicited and welcomed. -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] The Damned Commons Image Deletion Cycle
To suggestion 2: It makes no difference at all for the discspace if a file gets deleted or not. Since you are always able to restore it it will stay on the server. Suggestion 3: Restore the file on en.wiki if it gets deleted on Commons... No coding needed at all. Huib On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 9:36 AM, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.comwrote: I have just had to deal with this - AGAIN - and would like to rail for a moment, hoping to provoke discussion to promote change. I posit that this is big enough to deserve a Foundation-wide venue for initial discussion so am including Wikitech-L. Most of us are probably familiar with the cycle: Person A on en.wp (or, any project) uploads an image which is apparently public domain or free use by any reasonable standard. It gets put on article X. There is much rejoicing. Person B later thinks Oh, this is something other projects might use, and it's 'free', so... and uploads it to Commons. It then gets deleted at en.wp by a helpful bot. Person C on Commons later identifies that it fails to be an entirely free piece under the much-stricter Commons rules, due to some factor that A and B were unaware of. Person C nominates it for deletion there. Poof. Gone. Now, we have NO image, for something that is sufficiently legal under our rules and the law for use on en.wp (and likely, most of the rest of the projects). A delinker bot helpfully comes along and nukes references to the image off the pages that used to have it. Maintainers who miss the bot edit fail to notice that it's gone. Many months or years go along and finally someone notices, and either is an admin and restores the image on en.wp or finds an admin who restores it on en.wp. Now, for someone who sees images as an integral part of the total READERSHIP value we present, in terms of helping people understand things by drawing their attention and expressing ideas and history in a visual manner, the long periods where we've lost all image are mind-numbingly counter to our core mission. That we've evolved into this cycle due to bureaucratic friction does not make it acceptable. PROPOSED: This is not acceptable. Something must be done. SUGGESTED FIX #1: Create a parallel Uncommons project, for shared images which meet minimum project legal non-copyvio standards but do not meet the threshold Commons is insisting on (or we have defined Commons to be). This requires coding in the WMF to allow a parallel project as image source, and would require that Commons' deletion process be modified such that deletions for copyright niggles be a shift-to-Uncommons rather than an outright delete. SUGGESTED FIX #2: Stop deleting things from local projects when they're uploaded to commons. This requires additional diskspace from the Foundation (by some as-yet unknown amount). Ops team - Could you attempt to determine if this would be significant, troublesome, small enough to not be significant, etc? These are not the only two possible solutions, but they come to mind immediately (and have previously when I thought of this). Additional fix concepts solicited and welcomed. -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Met vriendelijke groet, Huib Laurens ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] The Damned Commons Image Deletion Cycle
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Suggestion 3: Restore the file on en.wiki if it gets deleted on Commons... No coding needed at all. This right here. It should be trivial to just have an admin restore the deleted file. *-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerro...@gmail.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] The Damned Commons Image Deletion Cycle
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Suggestion 3: Restore the file on en.wiki if it gets deleted on Commons... No coding needed at all. This right here. It should be trivial to just have an admin restore the deleted file. I am an admin, it took about five minutes to find the proper file name and undelete it again. HOWEVER - this was 16 months after it was deleted in the first place. The imperfect nature of people catching such changes in watchlists is the problem. This means that the delay until local restore can be arbitrarily long on non-super-popular pages. IF the Commons upload were to include the origin file / project and require the deleter at commons to notify en.wp admins to restore it there, that would solve the problem. Or, alternately, we could require that the image be added to all the constituent projects now using the file in article space upon commons deletion (undelete on the origin, add it to the projects for other ones that started using it). Put the onus on commons deleters to do that and make it a policy requirement that they did. I put wikien-l back in the cc list as these are non-technical proposals and would require ... I guess, commons process. I don't know what the commons list is, and am not on it to be able to post to it. -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] The Damned Commons Image Deletion Cycle
On 5 August 2013 08:43, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Suggestion 3: Restore the file on en.wiki if it gets deleted on Commons... No coding needed at all. This right here. It should be trivial to just have an admin restore the deleted file. Or, indeed, for the delinker bot to mark it for restoration. - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] The Damned Commons Image Deletion Cycle
On Aug 5, 2013 9:54 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 August 2013 08:43, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Suggestion 3: Restore the file on en.wiki if it gets deleted on Commons... No coding needed at all. This right here. It should be trivial to just have an admin restore the deleted file. Or, indeed, for the delinker bot to mark it for restoration. - d. +1 ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] The Damned Commons Image Deletion Cycle
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 12:54 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 August 2013 08:43, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Suggestion 3: Restore the file on en.wiki if it gets deleted on Commons... No coding needed at all. This right here. It should be trivial to just have an admin restore the deleted file. Or, indeed, for the delinker bot to mark it for restoration. ...if the same filename was used in Commons as in the source wiki. That does not solve the now used on other wikis problem, however, for those other wikis. That is quite possibly a least-effort trajectory however... -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] The Damned Commons Image Deletion Cycle
Ehm, if a file gets deleted 16 months after the move there is still a log entry from the change in the history of the article right? But if CommonsDelinker should report a list of all deleted files on a wikipage people would be able to check them and restore the local versions when needed? Secondly we should also learn people what can and what can't be moved to Commons so we won't have the problem also. Huib On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 9:54 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 August 2013 08:43, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Suggestion 3: Restore the file on en.wiki if it gets deleted on Commons... No coding needed at all. This right here. It should be trivial to just have an admin restore the deleted file. Or, indeed, for the delinker bot to mark it for restoration. - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Met vriendelijke groet, Huib Laurens ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] The Damned Commons Image Deletion Cycle
On Aug 5, 2013 9:58 AM, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 12:54 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 August 2013 08:43, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Suggestion 3: Restore the file on en.wiki if it gets deleted on Commons... No coding needed at all. This right here. It should be trivial to just have an admin restore the deleted file. Or, indeed, for the delinker bot to mark it for restoration. ...if the same filename was used in Commons as in the source wiki. That does not solve the now used on other wikis problem, however, for those other wikis. That is quite possibly a least-effort trajectory however... Maybe don't delink it in the first place when it is in use on any projects -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] The Damned Commons Image Deletion Cycle
On Aug 5, 2013 10:01 AM, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 5, 2013 9:58 AM, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 12:54 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 August 2013 08:43, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Suggestion 3: Restore the file on en.wiki if it gets deleted on Commons... No coding needed at all. This right here. It should be trivial to just have an admin restore the deleted file. Or, indeed, for the delinker bot to mark it for restoration. ...if the same filename was used in Commons as in the source wiki. That does not solve the now used on other wikis problem, however, for those other wikis. That is quite possibly a least-effort trajectory however... Maybe don't delink it in the first place when it is in use on any projects To me, its early, early enough to spout nonsense apparently. Let me re try that one. Maybe don't de link it if the image was migrated to commons from one of the other projects. (the morning is my natural enemy) -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] The Damned Commons Image Deletion Cycle
Not delink it when its in use on other projects will leave a lot of broken links on projects. I can't believe that would be something what we want? On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 5, 2013 9:58 AM, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 12:54 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 August 2013 08:43, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Suggestion 3: Restore the file on en.wiki if it gets deleted on Commons... No coding needed at all. This right here. It should be trivial to just have an admin restore the deleted file. Or, indeed, for the delinker bot to mark it for restoration. ...if the same filename was used in Commons as in the source wiki. That does not solve the now used on other wikis problem, however, for those other wikis. That is quite possibly a least-effort trajectory however... Maybe don't delink it in the first place when it is in use on any projects -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Met vriendelijke groet, Huib Laurens ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] The Damned Commons Image Deletion Cycle
It would leave a paper trail that editors could use to find the commons image, and hopefully its original source, to go get it from for other projects. Hmm. Maybe not. Not sure there's enough info there for that. It's late, solve in morning. -george On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:06 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Not delink it when its in use on other projects will leave a lot of broken links on projects. I can't believe that would be something what we want? On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 5, 2013 9:58 AM, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 12:54 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 August 2013 08:43, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Suggestion 3: Restore the file on en.wiki if it gets deleted on Commons... No coding needed at all. This right here. It should be trivial to just have an admin restore the deleted file. Or, indeed, for the delinker bot to mark it for restoration. ...if the same filename was used in Commons as in the source wiki. That does not solve the now used on other wikis problem, however, for those other wikis. That is quite possibly a least-effort trajectory however... Maybe don't delink it in the first place when it is in use on any projects -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Met vriendelijke groet, Huib Laurens ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] The Damned Commons Image Deletion Cycle
On Aug 5, 2013 10:10 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Not delink it when its in use on other projects will leave a lot of broken links on projects. I can't believe that would be something what we want? Why not? It immediately alerts whoever looks at it that there is something wrong with the image (which there is). Sure, it doesn't look pretty, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. Unless we would want to fork development and presentation on our projects, but that's a whole different discussion. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 5, 2013 9:58 AM, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 12:54 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 August 2013 08:43, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Suggestion 3: Restore the file on en.wiki if it gets deleted on Commons... No coding needed at all. This right here. It should be trivial to just have an admin restore the deleted file. Or, indeed, for the delinker bot to mark it for restoration. ...if the same filename was used in Commons as in the source wiki. That does not solve the now used on other wikis problem, however, for those other wikis. That is quite possibly a least-effort trajectory however... Maybe don't delink it in the first place when it is in use on any projects -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Met vriendelijke groet, Huib Laurens ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] The Damned Commons Image Deletion Cycle
The bot alters a page and alerts people about it on the watchlist. By just deleting the file it can take weeks before somebody even notice that there is something wrong. Besides that we have maybe 10 project that allow fair-use Why do we need to break links at 600+ wiki's for 10 wiki's with a different policy? On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 5, 2013 10:10 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Not delink it when its in use on other projects will leave a lot of broken links on projects. I can't believe that would be something what we want? Why not? It immediately alerts whoever looks at it that there is something wrong with the image (which there is). Sure, it doesn't look pretty, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. Unless we would want to fork development and presentation on our projects, but that's a whole different discussion. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 5, 2013 9:58 AM, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 12:54 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 August 2013 08:43, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Suggestion 3: Restore the file on en.wiki if it gets deleted on Commons... No coding needed at all. This right here. It should be trivial to just have an admin restore the deleted file. Or, indeed, for the delinker bot to mark it for restoration. ...if the same filename was used in Commons as in the source wiki. That does not solve the now used on other wikis problem, however, for those other wikis. That is quite possibly a least-effort trajectory however... Maybe don't delink it in the first place when it is in use on any projects -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Met vriendelijke groet, Huib Laurens ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Met vriendelijke groet, Huib Laurens ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] The Damned Commons Image Deletion Cycle
On Aug 5, 2013, at 3:24 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Besides that we have maybe 10 project that allow fair-use Why do we need to break links at 600+ wiki's for 10 wiki's with a different policy? It would be nice if the Foundation and other projects, particularly shared resources, were en.wikipedia compatible. That's not all must accept fair use!, but if you keep pissing off english language users, something is wrong. This has been wrong for *years*... Particular solutions here should minimize the pain and suffering for all, if at all possible. But I am bringing this up because what we do now is not the minimum point across the projects for that pain and suffering. George William Herbert Sent from my iPhone ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] The Damned Commons Image Deletion Cycle
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: The bot alters a page and alerts people about it on the watchlist. By just deleting the file it can take weeks before somebody even notice that there is something wrong. How about the best of both worlds, the bot makes a null edit to alert people who have the article watchlisted, and the link stays broken to alert everybody else. Besides that we have maybe 10 project that allow fair-use Why do we need to break links at 600+ wiki's for 10 wiki's with a different policy? On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 5, 2013 10:10 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Not delink it when its in use on other projects will leave a lot of broken links on projects. I can't believe that would be something what we want? Why not? It immediately alerts whoever looks at it that there is something wrong with the image (which there is). Sure, it doesn't look pretty, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. Unless we would want to fork development and presentation on our projects, but that's a whole different discussion. On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 5, 2013 9:58 AM, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 12:54 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 August 2013 08:43, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: Suggestion 3: Restore the file on en.wiki if it gets deleted on Commons... No coding needed at all. This right here. It should be trivial to just have an admin restore the deleted file. Or, indeed, for the delinker bot to mark it for restoration. ...if the same filename was used in Commons as in the source wiki. That does not solve the now used on other wikis problem, however, for those other wikis. That is quite possibly a least-effort trajectory however... Maybe don't delink it in the first place when it is in use on any projects -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Met vriendelijke groet, Huib Laurens ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Met vriendelijke groet, Huib Laurens ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] VE: why editing a paragraph opens the whole page?
Le 03/08/13 22:13, David Gerard a écrit : snip I would actually be interested to know if new Javascript, new functionality, things like the VE, etc. are routinely tested on slow connections. Is there anything like this in place? That is a recurring issue in software development. The developers usually have buffed computer and top internet connectivity which indeed loose some optimization :-] Once upon a time, by the time you released your software, the mass market eventually reached the same spec as your (then) top of the art computer and that was not much of an issue. Maybe we could try simulating performances using small VM with a capped network access. -- Antoine hashar Musso ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] access log (pagecounts) dump stopped
Hello guys, http://dumps.wikimedia.org/other/pagecounts-raw/2013/2013-08/ is not updated for a few hours. I don't know who keeps this running. Would please you let him know? Cheers! Cheol ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] access log (pagecounts) dump stopped
Hi Cheol! Thanks for alerting us to this issue. We are looking into it right now. Best, Diederik On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Ryu Cheol rch...@gmail.com wrote: Hello guys, http://dumps.wikimedia.org/other/pagecounts-raw/2013/2013-08/ is not updated for a few hours. I don't know who keeps this running. Would please you let him know? Cheers! Cheol ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] wikivoyage (and wikidata) served by Varnish in eqiad
Last week, we moved wikidata traffic in eqiad (so in practice, all non-European traffic) from Squid to the new text Varnish cluster. A few issues were found and fixed, and we haven't seen any new issues for several days. Today I've done the same for Wikivoyage. Non-European Wikivoyage traffic, served by our eqiad cluster, is now served by Varnish. Wikivoyage has a bigger portion of normal users vs. API/bot traffic, so some new issues could surface. Please let us know if you see any problems on Wikivoyage that might be related to the Varnish migration; file a Bugzilla ticket or mail me directly. Thanks! -- Mark Bergsma m...@wikimedia.org Lead Operations Architect Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] access log (pagecounts) dump stopped
Hi Cheol, The cronjob was broken due to some maintenance on the dumps server. The cronjob is being fixed right now and no data has been lost. In a couple of hours all files should be present again. If you still see an issue in 48 hours then please ping me. Best, Diederik On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Diederik van Liere dvanli...@wikimedia.orgwrote: Hi Cheol! Thanks for alerting us to this issue. We are looking into it right now. Best, Diederik On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Ryu Cheol rch...@gmail.com wrote: Hello guys, http://dumps.wikimedia.org/other/pagecounts-raw/2013/2013-08/ is not updated for a few hours. I don't know who keeps this running. Would please you let him know? Cheers! Cheol ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] wikivoyage (and wikidata) served by Varnish in eqiad
On 5 August 2013 16:17, Mark Bergsma m...@wikimedia.org wrote: Last week, we moved wikidata traffic in eqiad (so in practice, all non-European traffic) from Squid to the new text Varnish cluster. A few issues were found and fixed, and we haven't seen any new issues for several days. Today I've done the same for Wikivoyage. Non-European Wikivoyage traffic, served by our eqiad cluster, is now served by Varnish. Wikivoyage has a bigger portion of normal users vs. API/bot traffic, so some new issues could surface. Please let us know if you see any problems on Wikivoyage that might be related to the Varnish migration; file a Bugzilla ticket or mail me directly. Somewhat ignorant question: once we go all-Varnish, will logs be generated in a similar format to eventually end up at stats.grok.se? - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
Not just for me, but for others. Is there any way for us to work out what we're doing wrong? - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
quote name=David Gerard date=2013-08-05 time=18:03:53 +0100 Not just for me, but for others. Is there any way for us to work out what we're doing wrong? I got a report that my message to wikitech-ambassadors@ was sent to spam last week, as well. Just throwing out a datum. Greg -- | Greg GrossmeierGPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E | | identi.ca: @gregA18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D | ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
All emails to labs-l always end up in spam for me (I've a special rule that picks them out of spam, and GMail still warns me). /end-data-point -- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
Le lundi 05 août 2013 à 23:01 +0530, Yuvi Panda a écrit : All emails to labs-l always end up in spam for me (I've a special rule that picks them out of spam, and GMail still warns me). /end-data-point Bad mail provider, change mail provider. ;) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
What is the explanation for this? My spam folder is full of emails from wiki mailing lists too. Perhaps many users don't know how to unsubscribe and mark them as spam and Google filter has learn it? 2013/8/5 Mathieu Stumpf psychosl...@culture-libre.org Le lundi 05 août 2013 à 23:01 +0530, Yuvi Panda a écrit : All emails to labs-l always end up in spam for me (I've a special rule that picks them out of spam, and GMail still warns me). /end-data-point Bad mail provider, change mail provider. ;) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556 sounds related... --bawolff On 8/5/13, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada emi...@gmail.com wrote: What is the explanation for this? My spam folder is full of emails from wiki mailing lists too. Perhaps many users don't know how to unsubscribe and mark them as spam and Google filter has learn it? 2013/8/5 Mathieu Stumpf psychosl...@culture-libre.org Le lundi 05 août 2013 à 23:01 +0530, Yuvi Panda a écrit : All emails to labs-l always end up in spam for me (I've a special rule that picks them out of spam, and GMail still warns me). /end-data-point Bad mail provider, change mail provider. ;) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- -- - Brian Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85 million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
On Mon, 05 Aug 2013 19:03:53 +0200, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: Not just for me, but for others. Is there any way for us to work out what we're doing wrong? I actually just noticed this today, unspammed the messages and was going to mail here about it. Affects at least wikitech-l and mediawiki-l for me. -- Matma Rex ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
On 5 August 2013 20:06, Bartosz Dziewoński matma@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 05 Aug 2013 19:03:53 +0200, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: Not just for me, but for others. Is there any way for us to work out what we're doing wrong? I actually just noticed this today, unspammed the messages and was going to mail here about it. Affects at least wikitech-l and mediawiki-l for me. Been affecting a pile of lists for me, so it's something in what we send in the headers. - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] Wikimedia engineering July 2013 report
Hi, The report covering Wikimedia engineering activities in July 2013 is now available. Wiki version: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_engineering_report/2013/July Blog version: https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/08/05/engineering-july-2013-report/ We're also proposing a shorter, simpler and translatable version of this report that does not assume specialized technical knowledge: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_engineering_report/2013/July/summary Below is the full HTML text of the report. As always, feedback is appreciated on the usefulness of the report and its summary, and on how to improve them. -- Major news in July include: - Givinghttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/01/visualeditor-beta-rollout/more editors an easy-to-use editing interface (the VisualEditor) on several Wikipedias - Improving language support on our sites via summer interns' projectshttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/23/updates-from-the-language-engineering-google-summer-of-code-projects/and easier configuration optionshttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/01/universal-language-selector-uls-deployed-on-more-than-150-wikis/, and askinghttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/31/translate-ui-wikipedias-visual-editor/for help translating the VisualEditor interface - Enablinghttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/25/edit-wikipedia-on-the-go/users to edit our sites from mobile devices, like phones and tablets, and announcinghttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/31/cooper-ux-bootcamp-wikipedia-mobile-editing/a future user experience bootcamp focusing on mobile editing - Finishinghttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/23/pywikipediabot-moving-to-git-on-july-26/our transition from keeping source code in Subversion to storing it in Git - Launchinghttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/25/aircel-partnership-brings-wikipedia-zero-to-india/a Wikipedia Zero partnership with Aircel, giving mobile subscribers in India the potential to access Wikipedia at no data cost - Updatinghttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/08/01/future-https-wikimedia-projects/the Wikimedia movement on how we intend to protect our users' privacy with HTTPS - Signinghttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/26/future-third-party-releases-mediawiki/a contract with longtime MediaWiki contributors to manage MediaWiki releases for the open source community - Explaininghttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/03/wikimedia-foundation-fixes-software-bugs/how we find and gather software problems and deliver the fixes to users *Note: We're also providing a shorter, simpler and translatable version of this reporthttps://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_engineering_report/2013/July/summarythat does not assume specialized technical knowledge. * Personnel Work with us https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Work_with_us Are you looking to work for Wikimedia? We have a lot of hiring coming up, and we really love talking to active community members about these roles. - Software Engineer - Fundraisinghttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=oawpXfwM - Software Engineer - Language Engineeringhttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=oH3gXfwH - Software Engineer - Multimedia Systemshttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=oj40Wfw3 - Senior Software Engineer - Platformhttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=ouLnWfwi - Product Manager - Platformhttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=o3vtXfwI - Dev-Ops Engineer - SREhttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=ocLCWfwf - Software Engineer - Editor Engagement Experimentationhttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=o8NJXfwl - Software Engineer - Editor Engagementhttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=o6NJXfwj - Director of Program - Mobilehttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=oGqAXfwn - Front-end Developer - Analyticshttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=olyGXfwg Announcements - Bryan Davis joined the Platform Engineering team as a Senior Software Engineer, working generally on backend software issues and starting off supporting multimedia (announcementhttp://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-July/070923.html ). - C. Scott Ananian joined the Parsoid team as a Senior Features Engineer (announcementhttp://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-July/070316.html ). - Kenan Wang joined the Product team as Product Manager for Mobile ( announcementhttps://twitter.com/wikimediaatwork/status/359473872527044609 ). Technical Operations *Site infrastructure* Lots of Puppethttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/02/01/from-duct-tape-to-puppets/refactoring work got done this month, including considerable reorganization of the puppet masters. Several manifests have been moved into modules, but completing this project will take many months. *Data Dumps https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Projects/Data_Dumps* The English Wikipedia dumps ran out of our Ashburn data
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada emi...@gmail.com wrote: What is the explanation for this? My spam folder is full of emails from wiki mailing lists too. Perhaps many users don't know how to unsubscribe and mark them as spam and Google filter has learn it? Since it includes a List-Unsubscribe header, when reporting it as spam, Google prompts the user with something along the lines of Do you wish to unsubscribe rather than report as spam? ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
On 5 August 2013 16:23, OQ overlo...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada emi...@gmail.com wrote: What is the explanation for this? My spam folder is full of emails from wiki mailing lists too. Perhaps many users don't know how to unsubscribe and mark them as spam and Google filter has learn it? Since it includes a List-Unsubscribe header, when reporting it as spam, Google prompts the user with something along the lines of Do you wish to unsubscribe rather than report as spam? Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible exception of the checkuser mailing list. I do not know what is different about that one. Risker/Anne ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
On 5 August 2013 21:57, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible exception of the checkuser mailing list. I do not know what is different about that one. Does anyone have a contact at GMail? (I mean, there's making a blog post, but that'd be a pretty extreme last resort ...) - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
I recommend posters re-read bawolff's message: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Brian Wolff bawo...@gmail.com wrote: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556 sounds related... --bawolff lists.wikipedia.org is missing an SPF record in DNS. That is most likely what is causing the email to be flagged. --scott -- (http://cscott.net) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible exception of the checkuser mailing list. I do not know what is different about that one. Hurm I stand corrected, I know it does this for some lists I've been subscribed to, but not the WM lists, so *shrug*.[1] The troubleshooter[2] does encourage SPF/DKIM, and if that fails to contact them[3]. 1 - http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/unsubscribing-made-easy.html 2 - https://support.google.com/mail/troubleshooter/2696779?rd=1 3 - https://support.google.com/mail/contact/bulk_send ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
On 5 August 2013 22:25, C. Scott Ananian canan...@wikimedia.org wrote: lists.wikipedia.org is missing an SPF record in DNS. That is most likely what is causing the email to be flagged. Is that easy or hard to fix? (I can't work out how to get a list of email addresses for wikien-l, to work out how many subscribers are on gmail. I know at one stage *all* of the moderators were ... it's a popular service for good reason.) - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
I believe Greg G. has reached out to the Office IT team, who have the ability to open a ticket against GMail (since wikimedia uses GMail for org email). Thanks. --Ken. On Aug 5, 2013, at 5:15 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 August 2013 21:57, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible exception of the checkuser mailing list. I do not know what is different about that one. Does anyone have a contact at GMail? (I mean, there's making a blog post, but that'd be a pretty extreme last resort ...) - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Ken Snider ksni...@wikimedia.org wrote: I believe Greg G. has reached out to the Office IT team, who have the ability to open a ticket against GMail (since wikimedia uses GMail for org email). If Brian Wolff's diagnosis is correct ( https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556) this has nothing to do with GMail. (Nor does mailing list traffic originate from google servers, AFAIK.) --scott -- (http://cscott.net) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
C. Scott Ananian canan...@wikimedia.org wrote: I believe Greg G. has reached out to the Office IT team, who have the ability to open a ticket against GMail (since wikimedia uses GMail for org email). If Brian Wolff's diagnosis is correct ( https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556) this has nothing to do with GMail. (Nor does mailing list traffic originate from google servers, AFAIK.) Just want to point that I am neither Brian Wolff nor would I call the bug report a diagnosis :-) -- it's just a guess. Greg asked (cf. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556#c1): | Can someone who has some of the emails that were marked as spam please pastebin | the headers? We're working with a contact at Google now to diagnose. It is | probably the SPF issue, but they haven't suggested it yet (they probably | haven't gotten that far). Tim ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
C. Scott Ananian wrote: On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Ken Snider ksni...@wikimedia.org wrote: I believe Greg G. has reached out to the Office IT team, who have the ability to open a ticket against GMail (since wikimedia uses GMail for org email). If Brian Wolff's diagnosis is correct ( https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52556) this has nothing to do with GMail. (Nor does mailing list traffic originate from google servers, AFAIK.) Tim L.'s diagnosis, rather, but indeed. As I understand it, this would be a Wikimedia operations issue (setting an SPF record in Wikimedia's DNS records for lists.wikimedia.org) and would fall to Ken and his team. MZMcBride ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
Just looping the list in on the status: We're talking with a support person from Google, they've made a couple of suggestions that I've forwarded to Ops (specifically SPF and DKIM). They also asked for the headers of some of the messages, which you saw I related to the bug. I sent them the one Alex shared. I'll let the list know when I have a more solid answer (ie: we're all fixed or email hates us). Greg -- | Greg GrossmeierGPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E | | identi.ca: @gregA18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D | signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] GMail sending lots of WIkimedia mail to spam again
2013/8/5 Risker risker...@gmail.com Really? I've not once had that message. As best I can tell, it is affecting EVERY lists.wikimedia.org mailing list, with the possible exception of the checkuser mailing list. CU-list is also deeply involved. :-( ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
