Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Gabriel Wicke]

The discussion notes are now also available on-wiki at
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Reading/Web/Projects/OCCAM/ArchCom-03-15-2017
.

Technical note: I pasted the contents into
https://gwicke.github.io/paste2wiki/, which is using the REST API and
Parsoid to convert HTML to wikitext. The biggest difference to pasting
straight into VisualEditor is that it preserves inline HTML links. See
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T129546 for a discussion about optionally
allowing pasting of links into VE as well.

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 8:15 AM, Jan Dittrich 
wrote:

> > Doesn't etherpad (https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/) fit that need
> > without being proprietary?
>
> I found that I miss the comment feature, but it can be plugged in into
> etherpad.
>
> Jan
>
> 2017-03-16 14:21 GMT+01:00 Brad Jorsch (Anomie) :
>
> > On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 6:40 AM, Dan Garry  wrote:
> >
> > > Google Docs is easier to spin up in the moment and edit collaboratively
> > > than MediaWiki. Using proprietary software tools if they're a better
> fit
> > > for the intended purpose is entirely consistent with the Foundation's
> > > guiding principles
> > >
> >
> > Doesn't etherpad (https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/) fit that need without
> > being proprietary?
> >
> > --
> > Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
> > Senior Software Engineer
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> > ___
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jan Dittrich
> UX Design/ User Research
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> Phone: +49 (0)30 219 158 26-0
> http://wikimedia.de
>
> Imagine a world, in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. That‘s our commitment.
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
> der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
> Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>



-- 
Gabriel Wicke
Principal Engineer, Wikimedia Foundation
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Jan Dittrich]

> Doesn't etherpad (https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/) fit that need
> without being proprietary?

I found that I miss the comment feature, but it can be plugged in into
etherpad.

Jan

2017-03-16 14:21 GMT+01:00 Brad Jorsch (Anomie) :

> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 6:40 AM, Dan Garry  wrote:
>
> > Google Docs is easier to spin up in the moment and edit collaboratively
> > than MediaWiki. Using proprietary software tools if they're a better fit
> > for the intended purpose is entirely consistent with the Foundation's
> > guiding principles
> >
>
> Doesn't etherpad (https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/) fit that need without
> being proprietary?
>
> --
> Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
> Senior Software Engineer
> Wikimedia Foundation
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>



-- 
Jan Dittrich
UX Design/ User Research

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
Phone: +49 (0)30 219 158 26-0
http://wikimedia.de

Imagine a world, in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. That‘s our commitment.

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Dan Garry]

On 16 March 2017 at 13:21, Brad Jorsch (Anomie) 
wrote:
>
> Doesn't etherpad (https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/) fit that need without
> being proprietary?
>

Possibly. There are features that Google Docs has that Etherpad doesn't,
but I don't know whether they're relevant since I'm not involved with the
Architecture Committee. Hopefully they can answer.

Dan

-- 
Dan Garry
Lead Product Manager, Discovery
Wikimedia Foundation
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Brad Jorsch (Anomie)]

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 6:40 AM, Dan Garry  wrote:

> Google Docs is easier to spin up in the moment and edit collaboratively
> than MediaWiki. Using proprietary software tools if they're a better fit
> for the intended purpose is entirely consistent with the Foundation's
> guiding principles
>

Doesn't etherpad (https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/) fit that need without
being proprietary?

-- 
Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
Senior Software Engineer
Wikimedia Foundation
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Dan Garry]

On 16 March 2017 at 05:00, Legoktm  wrote:
>
> As requested earlier, will these documents be moved to mediawiki.org or
> is it now required to use Google's proprietary software to discuss the
> architecture of MediaWiki?
>

If there's nothing private in there, which one can only assume there is not
since the document is world-readable, I would encourage you to Be Bold and
transfer it to mediawiki.org. That document was edited by staff, and staff
agree to release their work as CC BY-SA in their contracts, so copying it
over should be fully compliant with the licence if you link to the doc for
the history in your comment. Further edits can then be made to the page on
mediawiki.org.

Google Docs is easier to spin up in the moment and edit collaboratively
than MediaWiki. Using proprietary software tools if they're a better fit
for the intended purpose is entirely consistent with the Foundation's
guiding principles
,
so their choice to use Google Docs makes sense to me. That said,
transferring the notes out of the doc to mediawiki.org after the moment has
passed does seem like a good idea in general.

NB: I have nothing to do with Architecture Committee, I'm just an
interested observer.

Dan

-- 
Dan Garry
Lead Product Manager, Discovery
Wikimedia Foundation
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Legoktm]

Hi,

On 03/15/2017 03:58 PM, Gabriel Wicke wrote:
> Thanks for everyone who participated in the discussion. Unfortunately, we
> ran into a technical issue with setting up the youtube stream that we
> weren't able to resolve quickly (my apologies to those unable to follow the
> stream), but we did take detailed notes
> 
> that
> you can peruse and comment on.

As requested earlier, will these documents be moved to mediawiki.org or
is it now required to use Google's proprietary software to discuss the
architecture of MediaWiki?

-- Legoktm

___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Gabriel Wicke]

Thanks for everyone who participated in the discussion. Unfortunately, we
ran into a technical issue with setting up the youtube stream that we
weren't able to resolve quickly (my apologies to those unable to follow the
stream), but we did take detailed notes

that
you can peruse and comment on.

As a next step, the Reading team will do some more research & document more
specifics on requirements and solutions. Following this, we will have
another round of discussion.

Thanks,

Gabriel
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Gabriel Wicke]

Reminder: this is about to start in a couple of minutes.


   - What: High level mobile frontend requirements & plans
  - Agenda / discussion notes
  

   - When: March 15, 2-3pm PDT (San Francisco)
   - Where:
  - Stream: http://youtu.be/8W7WrTa3Py4
  - Hangout (25 active participants max): https://hangouts.google.com
  /hangouts/_/ytl/T7sMtE_gUxWZ4biKxPh5ffreSnwnrIj1L7udZWXlKSk
  



On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 11:49 AM, Adam Baso  wrote:

> The doc is now public read.
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1id-E_KELGGA3X5H4K44I6zIX3SEgZ0sF_
> biOY4INCqM
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 4:18 PM, Adam Baso  wrote:
>
> > I made a request to the document author for that, I imagine should be
> > available next week. Nothing secret in there, though.
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Legoktm 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> On 03/09/2017 08:17 AM, Daniel Kinzler wrote:
> >> > Next week’s RFC meeting (tentative, pending confirmation):
> >> > * explore High - Level Mobilefrontend Requirements (JavaScript
> >> frameworks,
> >> > Progressive Apps, and all that jazz)
> >> >  >> X3SEgZ0sF_biOY4INCqM/edit#heading=h.xs2aq4j4wzse>.
> >>
> >> I didn't try to open the link until now, but it requires a Google
> >> account to view, and is only visible to those in the WMF - could it be
> >> moved to mediawiki.org please?
> >
> >
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>



-- 
Gabriel Wicke
Principal Engineer, Wikimedia Foundation
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Adam Baso]

The doc is now public read.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1id-E_KELGGA3X5H4K44I6zIX3SEgZ0sF_biOY4INCqM


On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 4:18 PM, Adam Baso  wrote:

> I made a request to the document author for that, I imagine should be
> available next week. Nothing secret in there, though.
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Legoktm 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 03/09/2017 08:17 AM, Daniel Kinzler wrote:
>> > Next week’s RFC meeting (tentative, pending confirmation):
>> > * explore High - Level Mobilefrontend Requirements (JavaScript
>> frameworks,
>> > Progressive Apps, and all that jazz)
>> > > X3SEgZ0sF_biOY4INCqM/edit#heading=h.xs2aq4j4wzse>.
>>
>> I didn't try to open the link until now, but it requires a Google
>> account to view, and is only visible to those in the WMF - could it be
>> moved to mediawiki.org please?
>
>
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Pine W]

Pinging Brendan Campbell regarding this conversation, in light of the
discussion about technologies for meetings.

Also, a general comment on meetings: I prefer that if there's text
conversation, that it stays all in one place and in a channel that is
archived by WMF (currently that solution is IRC), and not in the Google
Hangouts chat, and especially not in both places (which requires people who
want to be aware of all text conversation to watch both Google chat and
IRC.)




Pine


On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 10:04 PM, Gergo Tisza  wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 12, 2017 at 9:55 PM, bawolff  wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 8:06 PM, Legoktm 
> > wrote:
> > > On 03/09/2017 08:17 AM, Daniel Kinzler wrote:
> > >> * NOTE: we plan to experiment with having a public HANGOUT meeting,
> > instead of
> > >> using IRC.
> > >
> > > Can I ask why? At least for me, Google Hangouts simply isn't an option
> > > to participate when I'm in a crowded library/classroom.
> >
> > +1 to this being inconvenient. I don't always attend arch com
> > meetings, but usually do if I happen to be online during the time. If
> > its a hangout, it is extremely unlikely I would attend unless I was
> > specifically proposing an RFC.
> >
>
> Yeah, this makes "opportunistic" participation a lot harder:
> - when I am borderline interested in the topic, I can multitask between IRC
> and other tasks, and read scrollback every couple minutes. This is not
> really possible with video - either I spend an hour to participate (that's
> about 2.5% of my total time if I spend a paid hour so not a trivial cost)
> or I don't participate at all.
> - when something is not interesting / relevant enough to participate, I can
> skim the logs afterwards in way less than an hour, or search them for
> keywords. Neither is possible with video.
> - when I don't think the topic will be relevant to me but it turns our
> otherwise, I get a ping when someone on IRC says my name or a keyword I've
> set highlighting for. There is no such thing on Hangouts (I guess people
> can still be pinged on IRC but joining into an already ongoing video chat
> is awkward as there is no way to read back what has been said in the last
> few minutes).
>
> Even more problematically, it breaks public archiving of ArchCom
> discussions as hangouts invariably tend to become a mix of talk and typed
> comments, and while it is possible to publish the video stream on YouTube,
> as far as I know it is not possible to preserve the comments (or even read
> them back if you join late) so things like links and side-channel
> clarifications will get lost. Also, IRC logs are indexed by Google (this
> has helped me multiple times in the past) while automated voice
> transcribing technologies are not quite there yet. Also also, the meetbot
> generated an automated summary which was not great but somewhat useful.
> With video meetings, will anyone take up the burden of writing a similar
> summary by hand? (The private ArchCom meetings have decent notes, but those
> seem to be done by a dedicated TPG staffer - would there be similar support
> for the public meetings as well?)
>
> This also seems less inclusive - if you are a less experienced MediaWiki
> contributor who wants is interested in RfCs but are not sure whether you
> have anything to contribute, you can lurk on IRC and decide whether to
> pitch in or not. A hangout where you have to worry about displacing someone
> potentially more knowledgeable due to the participation limit, or taking
> air time away from such a person by talking, seems like a much less
> welcoming environment.
> (Also, this might just be a personality thing, but I find it much easier to
> express myself clearly and accurately in writing, as there is less time
> pressure - if you are not 100% sure in what you are about to say, you can
> spend a few seconds looking it up or thinking it over. In a video chat that
> seems more awkward. I imagine this would be extra problematic for someone
> who is not experienced or not well known and thus more worried about saying
> something stupid.)
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Gergo Tisza]

On Sun, Mar 12, 2017 at 9:55 PM, bawolff  wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 8:06 PM, Legoktm 
> wrote:
> > On 03/09/2017 08:17 AM, Daniel Kinzler wrote:
> >> * NOTE: we plan to experiment with having a public HANGOUT meeting,
> instead of
> >> using IRC.
> >
> > Can I ask why? At least for me, Google Hangouts simply isn't an option
> > to participate when I'm in a crowded library/classroom.
>
> +1 to this being inconvenient. I don't always attend arch com
> meetings, but usually do if I happen to be online during the time. If
> its a hangout, it is extremely unlikely I would attend unless I was
> specifically proposing an RFC.
>

Yeah, this makes "opportunistic" participation a lot harder:
- when I am borderline interested in the topic, I can multitask between IRC
and other tasks, and read scrollback every couple minutes. This is not
really possible with video - either I spend an hour to participate (that's
about 2.5% of my total time if I spend a paid hour so not a trivial cost)
or I don't participate at all.
- when something is not interesting / relevant enough to participate, I can
skim the logs afterwards in way less than an hour, or search them for
keywords. Neither is possible with video.
- when I don't think the topic will be relevant to me but it turns our
otherwise, I get a ping when someone on IRC says my name or a keyword I've
set highlighting for. There is no such thing on Hangouts (I guess people
can still be pinged on IRC but joining into an already ongoing video chat
is awkward as there is no way to read back what has been said in the last
few minutes).

Even more problematically, it breaks public archiving of ArchCom
discussions as hangouts invariably tend to become a mix of talk and typed
comments, and while it is possible to publish the video stream on YouTube,
as far as I know it is not possible to preserve the comments (or even read
them back if you join late) so things like links and side-channel
clarifications will get lost. Also, IRC logs are indexed by Google (this
has helped me multiple times in the past) while automated voice
transcribing technologies are not quite there yet. Also also, the meetbot
generated an automated summary which was not great but somewhat useful.
With video meetings, will anyone take up the burden of writing a similar
summary by hand? (The private ArchCom meetings have decent notes, but those
seem to be done by a dedicated TPG staffer - would there be similar support
for the public meetings as well?)

This also seems less inclusive - if you are a less experienced MediaWiki
contributor who wants is interested in RfCs but are not sure whether you
have anything to contribute, you can lurk on IRC and decide whether to
pitch in or not. A hangout where you have to worry about displacing someone
potentially more knowledgeable due to the participation limit, or taking
air time away from such a person by talking, seems like a much less
welcoming environment.
(Also, this might just be a personality thing, but I find it much easier to
express myself clearly and accurately in writing, as there is less time
pressure - if you are not 100% sure in what you are about to say, you can
spend a few seconds looking it up or thinking it over. In a video chat that
seems more awkward. I imagine this would be extra problematic for someone
who is not experienced or not well known and thus more worried about saying
something stupid.)
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Marko Obrovac]

Hello,

On 13 March 2017 at 16:53, James Hare  wrote:

> For large conference calls, I highly recommend Zoom. (https://zoom.us). It
> actually works for large conference calls. Wikimedia DC uses it all the
> time and it is very effective. It is proprietary, but so is Google Hangout.
> (I do not have a good solution to *that* problem.)
>

Note that zoom limits the length of a meeting to 40 mins for free accounts
initiating the session. But yes, in general I find zoom to be better than
h-o too.

As for the move off of IRC part, I think it's a good idea to try to
experiment with a different format and see if that fulfils the needs
better. If it doesn't, we can always revert to the old one. Note that the
format itself is not new in our circles; we have had various types of
events that went in parallel on h-o, youtube and IRC and I would say they
worked well.

My 2 cents,
Marko



>
>
> On March 13, 2017 at 2:51:51 PM, Chad (innocentkil...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 6:37 AM MZMcBride  wrote:
>
> > bawolff wrote:
> > >+1 to this being inconvenient. I don't always attend arch com
> > >meetings, but usually do if I happen to be online during the time. If
> > >its a hangout, it is extremely unlikely I would attend unless I was
> > >specifically proposing an RFC.
> >
> > Proprietary and capped at 25 participants? No thank you.
> >
> >
> Piling on. I hate hangouts for small meetings with like 5 people, much
> less a large group. They're *awful*
>
> The 25 participant problem should make the whole idea a non-starter for
> this.
>
> -Chad
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>



-- 
Marko Obrovac, PhD
Senior Services Engineer
Wikimedia Foundation
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[James Hare]

For large conference calls, I highly recommend Zoom. (https://zoom.us). It
actually works for large conference calls. Wikimedia DC uses it all the
time and it is very effective. It is proprietary, but so is Google Hangout.
(I do not have a good solution to *that* problem.)


On March 13, 2017 at 2:51:51 PM, Chad (innocentkil...@gmail.com) wrote:

On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 6:37 AM MZMcBride  wrote:

> bawolff wrote:
> >+1 to this being inconvenient. I don't always attend arch com
> >meetings, but usually do if I happen to be online during the time. If
> >its a hangout, it is extremely unlikely I would attend unless I was
> >specifically proposing an RFC.
>
> Proprietary and capped at 25 participants? No thank you.
>
>
Piling on. I hate hangouts for small meetings with like 5 people, much
less a large group. They're *awful*

The 25 participant problem should make the whole idea a non-starter for
this.

-Chad
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Chad]

On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 6:37 AM MZMcBride  wrote:

> bawolff wrote:
> >+1 to this being inconvenient. I don't always attend arch com
> >meetings, but usually do if I happen to be online during the time. If
> >its a hangout, it is extremely unlikely I would attend unless I was
> >specifically proposing an RFC.
>
> Proprietary and capped at 25 participants? No thank you.
>
>
Piling on. I hate hangouts for small meetings with like 5 people, much
less a large group. They're *awful*

The 25 participant problem should make the whole idea a non-starter for
this.

-Chad
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[MZMcBride]

Gabriel Wicke wrote:
>Daniel Kinzler wrote:
>> Next week’s RFC meeting (tentative, pending confirmation):
>> * explore High - Level Mobilefrontend Requirements (JavaScript
>>frameworks, Progressive Apps, and all that jazz)
>> > biOY4INCqM/edit#heading=h.xs2aq4j4wzse>.
>> * NOTE: we plan to experiment with having a public HANGOUT meeting,
>> instead of using IRC.
>
>This is now confirmed.
>
>   - What: High level mobile frontend requirements & plans
>   - When: March 15, 2-3pm PDT (San Francisco)
>   - Where:
>  - Stream: http://youtu.be/8W7WrTa3Py4
>  - Hangout (25 active participants max):
>  
>https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/ytl/T7sMtE_gUxWZ4biKxPh5ffreSnwnrIj
>1L7udZWXlKSk

Which Phabricator Maniphest task is this referring to?

In my opinion, MobileFrontend should not exist. I hope the plan being
discussed is to finally end its development.

bawolff wrote:
>+1 to this being inconvenient. I don't always attend arch com
>meetings, but usually do if I happen to be online during the time. If
>its a hangout, it is extremely unlikely I would attend unless I was
>specifically proposing an RFC.

Proprietary and capped at 25 participants? No thank you.

MZMcBride



___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[bawolff]

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 8:06 PM, Legoktm  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 03/09/2017 08:17 AM, Daniel Kinzler wrote:
>> * NOTE: we plan to experiment with having a public HANGOUT meeting, instead 
>> of
>> using IRC.
>
> Can I ask why? At least for me, Google Hangouts simply isn't an option
> to participate when I'm in a crowded library/classroom.
>
> -- Legoktm
>

+1 to this being inconvenient. I don't always attend arch com
meetings, but usually do if I happen to be online during the time. If
its a hangout, it is extremely unlikely I would attend unless I was
specifically proposing an RFC.

--
Bawolff

___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Legoktm]

Hi,

On 03/10/2017 01:11 PM, Gabriel Wicke wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Legoktm 
> With audio and video, hangouts provide a somewhat higher bandwidth, and
> avoid the problem of many people discussing several topics at the same time
> that larger IRC meetings frequently run into.
> 
> 
>> At least for me, Google Hangouts simply isn't an option
>> to participate when I'm in a crowded library/classroom.
> 
> 
> You can still listen in & ask questions via the hangout chat, or the
> regular office IRC channel. Adam volunteered to monitor the channel, so
> that questions can be addressed. The meeting will also be recorded at the
> youtube link I provided, so you can catch up later, and ask follow-up
> questions by mail.

I should have been been more explicit - listening in isn't an option
either for me. I'll watch the recording later, but that entirely defeats
the "higher bandwidth" point.

-- Legoktm

___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Adam Baso]

I made a request to the document author for that, I imagine should be
available next week. Nothing secret in there, though.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Legoktm 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 03/09/2017 08:17 AM, Daniel Kinzler wrote:
> > Next week’s RFC meeting (tentative, pending confirmation):
> > * explore High - Level Mobilefrontend Requirements (JavaScript
> frameworks,
> > Progressive Apps, and all that jazz)
> >  biOY4INCqM/edit#heading=h.xs2aq4j4wzse>.
>
> I didn't try to open the link until now, but it requires a Google
> account to view, and is only visible to those in the WMF - could it be
> moved to mediawiki.org please?
>
> -- Legoktm
>
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Legoktm]

Hi,

On 03/09/2017 08:17 AM, Daniel Kinzler wrote:
> Next week’s RFC meeting (tentative, pending confirmation):
> * explore High - Level Mobilefrontend Requirements (JavaScript frameworks,
> Progressive Apps, and all that jazz)
> .

I didn't try to open the link until now, but it requires a Google
account to view, and is only visible to those in the WMF - could it be
moved to mediawiki.org please?

-- Legoktm

___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Gabriel Wicke]

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Legoktm 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 03/09/2017 08:17 AM, Daniel Kinzler wrote:
> > * NOTE: we plan to experiment with having a public HANGOUT meeting,
> instead of
> > using IRC.
>
> Can I ask why?


With audio and video, hangouts provide a somewhat higher bandwidth, and
avoid the problem of many people discussing several topics at the same time
that larger IRC meetings frequently run into.


> At least for me, Google Hangouts simply isn't an option
> to participate when I'm in a crowded library/classroom.


You can still listen in & ask questions via the hangout chat, or the
regular office IRC channel. Adam volunteered to monitor the channel, so
that questions can be addressed. The meeting will also be recorded at the
youtube link I provided, so you can catch up later, and ask follow-up
questions by mail.
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Legoktm]

Hi,

On 03/09/2017 08:17 AM, Daniel Kinzler wrote:
> * NOTE: we plan to experiment with having a public HANGOUT meeting, instead of
> using IRC.

Can I ask why? At least for me, Google Hangouts simply isn't an option
to participate when I'm in a crowded library/classroom.

-- Legoktm

___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Adam Baso]

>
>
>- What: High level mobile frontend requirements & plans
>- When: March 15, 2-3pm PDT (San Francisco)
>- Where:
>   - Stream: http://youtu.be/8W7WrTa3Py4
>   - Hangout (25 active participants max):
>   https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/ytl/T7sMtE_
> gUxWZ4biKxPh5ffreSnwnrIj1L7udZWXlKSk




I'll get this posted on https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours
with a pointer to #wikimedia-office on Freenode just in case the Hangout
fills up and people need to interact that way (although I'd recommend the
Hangout because the stream will be slightly time delayed).

-Adam
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Re: [Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Gabriel Wicke]

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 8:17 AM, Daniel Kinzler 
wrote:
>
> Next week’s RFC meeting (tentative, pending confirmation):
> * explore High - Level Mobilefrontend Requirements (JavaScript frameworks,
> Progressive Apps, and all that jazz)
>  biOY4INCqM/edit#heading=h.xs2aq4j4wzse>.
> * NOTE: we plan to experiment with having a public HANGOUT meeting,
> instead of
> using IRC.
>

This is now confirmed.

   - What: High level mobile frontend requirements & plans
   - When: March 15, 2-3pm PDT (San Francisco)
   - Where:
  - Stream: http://youtu.be/8W7WrTa3Py4
  - Hangout (25 active participants max):
  
https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/ytl/T7sMtE_gUxWZ4biKxPh5ffreSnwnrIj1L7udZWXlKSk
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

[Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Daniel Kinzler]

Hi all!

Here are the minutes from this week's ArchCom meeting. You can also find the
minutes at .

See also the ArchCom status page at
 and the RFC board
.

Here are the minutes, for your convenience:

Active RFCs:
*  tags for MediaWiki sections
: Parsing team is considering best
semantics for section wrapping.
* How should we store longer revision comments?
: to be combined with the morge
general discussion about refactoring the revision table
* Disabling LocalisationUpdate on WMF wikis
: RE wants to drop it, but there is
some pushback. Also, there are concerns about the current implementation.

Yesterday’s RFC meeting: Brion’s proposal for optimizing the revision table 
(again).
* Log:

* Related RFC “How should we store longer revision comments?
” will be folded into Brion’s 
proposal.
* This is related to but separate from MCR
. Proper RFC ticket(s) to be filed 
soon.

Next week’s RFC meeting (tentative, pending confirmation):
* explore High - Level Mobilefrontend Requirements (JavaScript frameworks,
Progressive Apps, and all that jazz)
.
* NOTE: we plan to experiment with having a public HANGOUT meeting, instead of
using IRC.

Other topics:
* Tim Starling has been looking at etcd  for
configuration management and potentially other use cases. See also T149617
.


-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Principal Platform Engineer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Principal Platform Engineer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

[Wikitech-l] ArchCom Monutes, News, and Outlook

[Daniel Kinzler]

Hi all!

Here are the minutes from this week's ArchCom meeting. You can also find the
minutes at .

See also the ArchCom status page at
 and the RFC board
.

Here are the minutes, for your convenience:

APPROVED:
* [[phab:T122942]] (Support language variants in the REST API): Will use
Accept-Language headers.

Active RFCs:
* [[phab:T66214]]: Define an official thumb API: Description updated to reflect
the latest discussion.
* [[phab:T155813]]: Decide on storage and delivery method for TemplateStyles CSS

Next Week on IRC:
* Next week’s IRC meeting: Another round of Brion’s “fix the revision table”,
see [[mw:User:Brion_VIBBER/Compacting_the_revision_table_round_2]]

Further news:
* New hot topic: Progressive Web Apps. Watch for a public ArchCom session on
this topic soon. Ties in with discussion regarding JS frameworks in the Frontend
Standardization Group.
* Tim is thinking about automating wiki creation, see [[phab:T158730]]
* Release Engineering wants to get rid of LocalizationUpdate, see 
[[phab:T158360]]
* The new MediaWiki team is up and running, with Tim Starling in the lead. There
is a job opening for Product Manager for MediaWiki, see
https://boards.greenhouse.io/wikimedia/jobs/613548?gh_src=1u385n1

-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Principal Platform Engineer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l