Re: [Wikitech-l] Dynamic search results as category pages

2014-02-01 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,

With the autolist [1] and Widar you can make claims for the entries in a
category. So you can first claim occupation philosopher and then make
other claims about such philosophers ... Mind you claiming the Greek
nationality for people who spoke Greek is problematic when these people
were living before the creation of Greece. Possible claims are that they
spoke Greek ...
Thanks,
 GerardM

[1] http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/autolist.html#



On 24 January 2014 10:53, Yuri Astrakhan yastrak...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Hi, I am thinking of implementing a

 #CATQUERY query

 magic keyword for the category pages.

 When this keyword is present, the category page would execute a query
 against the search backend instead of normal category behavior and show
 result as if those pages were actually marked with this category.

 For example, this would allow Greek Philosophers category page to be
 quickly redefined as
 a cross-section of greeks  philosophers categories:

 #CATQUERY incategory:Greek incategory:Philosopher

 Obviously the community will be able to define much more elaborate queries,
 including the ordering (will be supported by the new search backend)
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Dynamic search results as category pages

2014-01-31 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,
In Reasonator we now support calendars [1] It does show you things like
people who were born / died on that date, events under way on that date ..

Play with and notice that longer periods are also supported. Some longer
periods may take some time but we have a waiting bar for you..It does
support any of the languages that we support. It uses Wikidata information
so if your favourite person or event is not mentioned. Just add the details
in Wikidata.
Thanks,
   GerardM

PS three cheers for Magnus


[1]


On 30 January 2014 19:50, Chad innocentkil...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 1:10 AM, Lydia Pintscher 
 lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de wrote:

  On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Yuri Astrakhan
  yastrak...@wikimedia.org wrote:
   Hi, I am thinking of implementing a
  
   #CATQUERY query
  
   magic keyword for the category pages.
  
   When this keyword is present, the category page would execute a query
   against the search backend instead of normal category behavior and show
   result as if those pages were actually marked with this category.
  
   For example, this would allow Greek Philosophers category page to be
   quickly redefined as
   a cross-section of greeks  philosophers categories:
  
   #CATQUERY incategory:Greek incategory:Philosopher
  
   Obviously the community will be able to define much more elaborate
  queries,
   including the ordering (will be supported by the new search backend)
 
  In the future this will be possible using Wikidata and queries. My
  dream is that categories will to a very large extend go away then and
  be replaced with better Wikidata-based tools. I'd _really_ like us not
  to introduce more incentives to use categories like this one. Also
  it'd be quite a source for confusion to have both.
 
 
 Indeed. I think it would be very shortsighted to introduce any sort of new
 syntax here for this right now as proposed.

 There's lots of exciting query opportunities coming with Wikidata as Lydia
 says (which will very likely end up using Elasticsearch in some manner).

 On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Brian Wolff bawo...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Category intersection proposals seem to appear on this list about once
  every 2 years as far as i remember. Usually they dont succede because
  nobody ends up writing any efficient code to implement it.
 

 Yep, we've been here before. Because category intersection isn't easy with
 the schema we've got. However, it's incredibly trivial to do in
 Elasticsearch.
 So I imagine if we invest more effort in helping Wikidata expand its syntax
 and uses we'll likely end up with what Yuri's wanting--if maybe in a
 different
 form.

 I'll also note we've already solved category intersection in Cirrus ;-)


 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=incategory%3A%221941+births%22+incategory%3A%221995+deaths%22title=Special%3ASearch


 -Chad
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Dynamic search results as category pages

2014-01-31 Thread Dan Garry
Hey Yuri,

This is a really cool idea. It's almost like set theory for categories! You
can define certain base categories (based upon manually entering them into
the category using existing category syntax), then define other categories
based on set theoretic operations on categories. Certainly, if we could go
back in time and build categories from the ground up again, I think this
approach would be far superior.

This feature is sufficiently complex from a product standpoint that I think
the best thing to do here is to wait to see what happens with
CirrusSearch's integration with Wikidata. Many cool features like this may
end up being obsoleted by any effort for Wikidata integration. If not, we
can revisit this then.

Thanks,
Dan






On 24 January 2014 01:53, Yuri Astrakhan yastrak...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Hi, I am thinking of implementing a

 #CATQUERY query

 magic keyword for the category pages.

 When this keyword is present, the category page would execute a query
 against the search backend instead of normal category behavior and show
 result as if those pages were actually marked with this category.

 For example, this would allow Greek Philosophers category page to be
 quickly redefined as
 a cross-section of greeks  philosophers categories:

 #CATQUERY incategory:Greek incategory:Philosopher

 Obviously the community will be able to define much more elaborate queries,
 including the ordering (will be supported by the new search backend)
 ___
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-- 
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Associate Product Manager for Platform
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Dynamic search results as category pages

2014-01-31 Thread Chad
On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Chad innocentkil...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'll also note we've already solved category intersection in Cirrus ;-)


 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=incategory%3A%221941+births%22+incategory%3A%221995+deaths%22title=Special%3ASearch



That should read in both the old and new search actually.

It just goes to show you how easy this is in lucene world.

-Chad
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Dynamic search results as category pages

2014-01-30 Thread Chad
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 1:10 AM, Lydia Pintscher 
lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de wrote:

 On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Yuri Astrakhan
 yastrak...@wikimedia.org wrote:
  Hi, I am thinking of implementing a
 
  #CATQUERY query
 
  magic keyword for the category pages.
 
  When this keyword is present, the category page would execute a query
  against the search backend instead of normal category behavior and show
  result as if those pages were actually marked with this category.
 
  For example, this would allow Greek Philosophers category page to be
  quickly redefined as
  a cross-section of greeks  philosophers categories:
 
  #CATQUERY incategory:Greek incategory:Philosopher
 
  Obviously the community will be able to define much more elaborate
 queries,
  including the ordering (will be supported by the new search backend)

 In the future this will be possible using Wikidata and queries. My
 dream is that categories will to a very large extend go away then and
 be replaced with better Wikidata-based tools. I'd _really_ like us not
 to introduce more incentives to use categories like this one. Also
 it'd be quite a source for confusion to have both.


Indeed. I think it would be very shortsighted to introduce any sort of new
syntax here for this right now as proposed.

There's lots of exciting query opportunities coming with Wikidata as Lydia
says (which will very likely end up using Elasticsearch in some manner).

On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Brian Wolff bawo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Category intersection proposals seem to appear on this list about once
 every 2 years as far as i remember. Usually they dont succede because
 nobody ends up writing any efficient code to implement it.


Yep, we've been here before. Because category intersection isn't easy with
the schema we've got. However, it's incredibly trivial to do in
Elasticsearch.
So I imagine if we invest more effort in helping Wikidata expand its syntax
and uses we'll likely end up with what Yuri's wanting--if maybe in a
different
form.

I'll also note we've already solved category intersection in Cirrus ;-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=incategory%3A%221941+births%22+incategory%3A%221995+deaths%22title=Special%3ASearch


-Chad
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Dynamic search results as category pages

2014-01-26 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,
Did you consider the use of Wikidata in stead of SMW? It should not only
indicate all the articles that have the appropriate statements but also the
articles written in other languages.
Thanks,
 GerardM


On 26 January 2014 03:25, Yuri Astrakhan yastrak...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Of course - I am actually modeling this feature on Semantic MW. It's just
 that I doubt WMF will enable SMW on the cluster any time soon :)


 On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Jamie Thingelstad ja...@thingelstad.com
 wrote:

  You could do something exactly like this very, very easily using Semantic
  MediaWiki and Concepts.
  Jamie Thingelstad
  ja...@thingelstad.com
  mobile: 612-810-3699
  find me on AIM Twitter Facebook LinkedIn
 
  On Jan 24, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Brian Wolff bawo...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   On Jan 24, 2014 1:54 AM, Yuri Astrakhan yastrak...@wikimedia.org
  wrote:
  
   Hi, I am thinking of implementing a
  
   #CATQUERY query
  
   magic keyword for the category pages.
  
   When this keyword is present, the category page would execute a query
   against the search backend instead of normal category behavior and
 show
   result as if those pages were actually marked with this category.
  
   For example, this would allow Greek Philosophers category page to be
   quickly redefined as
   a cross-section of greeks  philosophers categories:
  
   #CATQUERY incategory:Greek incategory:Philosopher
  
   Obviously the community will be able to define much more elaborate
   queries,
   including the ordering (will be supported by the new search backend)
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   I like the idea in principle, but think the syntax could use
  bikeshedding ;)
  
   If we use this as category pages, im a little worried that people could
  get
   confused and try to add [[category:Greek philosophers]] to a page, and
   expect it to work. We would need good error handling in that situation
  
   including the ordering (will be supported by the new search backend)
  
   Cool. I didnt realize search would support this. That's a pretty big
 deal
   since people expect there categorirs alphabetized.
  
   Another cool project would be to expand intersection/Dyanamic Page List
   (Wikimedia) to be able to use search as a different backend (however,
  that
   extension would need quite a bit of refactoring to get there)
  
   -bawolff
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Dynamic search results as category pages

2014-01-26 Thread Lydia Pintscher
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Yuri Astrakhan
yastrak...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 Hi, I am thinking of implementing a

 #CATQUERY query

 magic keyword for the category pages.

 When this keyword is present, the category page would execute a query
 against the search backend instead of normal category behavior and show
 result as if those pages were actually marked with this category.

 For example, this would allow Greek Philosophers category page to be
 quickly redefined as
 a cross-section of greeks  philosophers categories:

 #CATQUERY incategory:Greek incategory:Philosopher

 Obviously the community will be able to define much more elaborate queries,
 including the ordering (will be supported by the new search backend)

In the future this will be possible using Wikidata and queries. My
dream is that categories will to a very large extend go away then and
be replaced with better Wikidata-based tools. I'd _really_ like us not
to introduce more incentives to use categories like this one. Also
it'd be quite a source for confusion to have both.


Cheers
Lydia

-- 
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
Product Manager for Wikidata

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
10963 Berlin
www.wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.

Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Dynamic search results as category pages

2014-01-26 Thread Helder .
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 12:25 AM, Yuri Astrakhan
yastrak...@wikimedia.orgwrote:

 Of course - I am actually modeling this feature on Semantic MW. It's just
 that I doubt WMF will enable SMW on the cluster any time soon :)


That request was already WONTFIXed:
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8390

Helder
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Dynamic search results as category pages

2014-01-26 Thread Bartosz Dziewoński

I have a vague feeling that a very similar proposal appeared on this very list 
a few months ago. (No links handy, though.)

--
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Dynamic search results as category pages

2014-01-26 Thread Brian Wolff
On Jan 26, 2014 10:02 AM, Bartosz Dziewoński matma@gmail.com wrote:

 I have a vague feeling that a very similar proposal appeared on this very
list a few months ago. (No links handy, though.)

 --
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Category intersection proposals seem to appear on this list about once
every 2 years as far as i remember. Usually they dont succede because
nobody ends up writing any efficient code to implement it.

-bawolff
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Dynamic search results as category pages

2014-01-26 Thread Gryllida
http://migadv.com/ comes to mind 
(https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/MediaWiki_data_browser) but sadly 
it's barely interactive...

  gry

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Dynamic search results as category pages

2014-01-25 Thread Jamie Thingelstad
You could do something exactly like this very, very easily using Semantic 
MediaWiki and Concepts.
Jamie Thingelstad
ja...@thingelstad.com
mobile: 612-810-3699
find me on AIM Twitter Facebook LinkedIn

On Jan 24, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Brian Wolff bawo...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Jan 24, 2014 1:54 AM, Yuri Astrakhan yastrak...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 
 Hi, I am thinking of implementing a
 
 #CATQUERY query
 
 magic keyword for the category pages.
 
 When this keyword is present, the category page would execute a query
 against the search backend instead of normal category behavior and show
 result as if those pages were actually marked with this category.
 
 For example, this would allow Greek Philosophers category page to be
 quickly redefined as
 a cross-section of greeks  philosophers categories:
 
 #CATQUERY incategory:Greek incategory:Philosopher
 
 Obviously the community will be able to define much more elaborate
 queries,
 including the ordering (will be supported by the new search backend)
 ___
 Wikitech-l mailing list
 Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
 
 I like the idea in principle, but think the syntax could use bikeshedding ;)
 
 If we use this as category pages, im a little worried that people could get
 confused and try to add [[category:Greek philosophers]] to a page, and
 expect it to work. We would need good error handling in that situation
 
 including the ordering (will be supported by the new search backend)
 
 Cool. I didnt realize search would support this. That's a pretty big deal
 since people expect there categorirs alphabetized.
 
 Another cool project would be to expand intersection/Dyanamic Page List
 (Wikimedia) to be able to use search as a different backend (however, that
 extension would need quite a bit of refactoring to get there)
 
 -bawolff
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Dynamic search results as category pages

2014-01-25 Thread Yuri Astrakhan
Of course - I am actually modeling this feature on Semantic MW. It's just
that I doubt WMF will enable SMW on the cluster any time soon :)


On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Jamie Thingelstad ja...@thingelstad.comwrote:

 You could do something exactly like this very, very easily using Semantic
 MediaWiki and Concepts.
 Jamie Thingelstad
 ja...@thingelstad.com
 mobile: 612-810-3699
 find me on AIM Twitter Facebook LinkedIn

 On Jan 24, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Brian Wolff bawo...@gmail.com wrote:

  On Jan 24, 2014 1:54 AM, Yuri Astrakhan yastrak...@wikimedia.org
 wrote:
 
  Hi, I am thinking of implementing a
 
  #CATQUERY query
 
  magic keyword for the category pages.
 
  When this keyword is present, the category page would execute a query
  against the search backend instead of normal category behavior and show
  result as if those pages were actually marked with this category.
 
  For example, this would allow Greek Philosophers category page to be
  quickly redefined as
  a cross-section of greeks  philosophers categories:
 
  #CATQUERY incategory:Greek incategory:Philosopher
 
  Obviously the community will be able to define much more elaborate
  queries,
  including the ordering (will be supported by the new search backend)
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  I like the idea in principle, but think the syntax could use
 bikeshedding ;)
 
  If we use this as category pages, im a little worried that people could
 get
  confused and try to add [[category:Greek philosophers]] to a page, and
  expect it to work. We would need good error handling in that situation
 
  including the ordering (will be supported by the new search backend)
 
  Cool. I didnt realize search would support this. That's a pretty big deal
  since people expect there categorirs alphabetized.
 
  Another cool project would be to expand intersection/Dyanamic Page List
  (Wikimedia) to be able to use search as a different backend (however,
 that
  extension would need quite a bit of refactoring to get there)
 
  -bawolff
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[Wikitech-l] Dynamic search results as category pages

2014-01-24 Thread Yuri Astrakhan
Hi, I am thinking of implementing a

#CATQUERY query

magic keyword for the category pages.

When this keyword is present, the category page would execute a query
against the search backend instead of normal category behavior and show
result as if those pages were actually marked with this category.

For example, this would allow Greek Philosophers category page to be
quickly redefined as
a cross-section of greeks  philosophers categories:

#CATQUERY incategory:Greek incategory:Philosopher

Obviously the community will be able to define much more elaborate queries,
including the ordering (will be supported by the new search backend)
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Dynamic search results as category pages

2014-01-24 Thread Brian Wolff
On Jan 24, 2014 1:54 AM, Yuri Astrakhan yastrak...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Hi, I am thinking of implementing a

 #CATQUERY query

 magic keyword for the category pages.

 When this keyword is present, the category page would execute a query
 against the search backend instead of normal category behavior and show
 result as if those pages were actually marked with this category.

 For example, this would allow Greek Philosophers category page to be
 quickly redefined as
 a cross-section of greeks  philosophers categories:

 #CATQUERY incategory:Greek incategory:Philosopher

 Obviously the community will be able to define much more elaborate
queries,
 including the ordering (will be supported by the new search backend)
 ___
 Wikitech-l mailing list
 Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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I like the idea in principle, but think the syntax could use bikeshedding ;)

If we use this as category pages, im a little worried that people could get
confused and try to add [[category:Greek philosophers]] to a page, and
expect it to work. We would need good error handling in that situation

 including the ordering (will be supported by the new search backend)

Cool. I didnt realize search would support this. That's a pretty big deal
since people expect there categorirs alphabetized.

Another cool project would be to expand intersection/Dyanamic Page List
(Wikimedia) to be able to use search as a different backend (however, that
extension would need quite a bit of refactoring to get there)

-bawolff
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Dynamic search results as category pages

2014-01-24 Thread Nik Everett


Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 24, 2014, at 7:55 AM, Brian Wolff bawo...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 On Jan 24, 2014 1:54 AM, Yuri Astrakhan yastrak...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 
 Hi, I am thinking of implementing a
 
 #CATQUERY query
 
 magic keyword for the category pages.
 
 When this keyword is present, the category page would execute a query
 against the search backend instead of normal category behavior and show
 result as if those pages were actually marked with this category.
 
 For example, this would allow Greek Philosophers category page to be
 quickly redefined as
 a cross-section of greeks  philosophers categories:
 
 #CATQUERY incategory:Greek incategory:Philosopher
 
 Obviously the community will be able to define much more elaborate
 queries,
 including the ordering (will be supported by the new search backend)
 ___
 Wikitech-l mailing list
 Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
 
 I like the idea in principle, but think the syntax could use bikeshedding ;)
 
 If we use this as category pages, im a little worried that people could get
 confused and try to add [[category:Greek philosophers]] to a page, and
 expect it to work. We would need good error handling in that situation


Also, at least at first, you couldn't use one of these synthetic categories to 
filter search results so you couldn't use them to build other synthetic 
categories.
 
 including the ordering (will be supported by the new search backend)
 
 Cool. I didnt realize search would support this. That's a pretty big deal
 since people expect there categorirs alphabetized.

So I looked into it and it would be easy to implement with Cirrus _but_ I'm not 
yet sure about the memory implications. We have a ton of headroom on memory now 
so it might not matter but I need to test it before I can be as confident that 
it is ok as I was last night at 1am. It may have caveats like synthetic 
categories must be less than 1000 articles or not all results are included. 


 
 Another cool project would be to expand intersection/Dyanamic P age List
 (Wikimedia) to be able to use search as a different backend (however, that
 extension would need quite a bit of refactoring to get there)
 
 -bawolff
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Dynamic search results as category pages

2014-01-24 Thread Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Nik Everett never...@wikimedia.org wrote:


  On Jan 24, 2014, at 7:55 AM, Brian Wolff bawo...@gmail.com wrote:
  If we use this as category pages, im a little worried that people could
 get
  confused and try to add [[category:Greek philosophers]] to a page, and
  expect it to work. We would need good error handling in that situation

 Also, at least at first, you couldn't use one of these synthetic
 categories to filter search results so you couldn't use them to build other
 synthetic categories.


Don't forget the API. You'd probably need to bascally override
ApiQueryCategoryMembers to check cmtitle and either use parent::run() or a
custom implementation.

-- 
Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
Software Engineer
Wikimedia Foundation


On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Nik Everett never...@wikimedia.org wrote:



 Sent from my iPhone

  On Jan 24, 2014, at 7:55 AM, Brian Wolff bawo...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  On Jan 24, 2014 1:54 AM, Yuri Astrakhan yastrak...@wikimedia.org
 wrote:
 
  Hi, I am thinking of implementing a
 
  #CATQUERY query
 
  magic keyword for the category pages.
 
  When this keyword is present, the category page would execute a query
  against the search backend instead of normal category behavior and show
  result as if those pages were actually marked with this category.
 
  For example, this would allow Greek Philosophers category page to be
  quickly redefined as
  a cross-section of greeks  philosophers categories:
 
  #CATQUERY incategory:Greek incategory:Philosopher
 
  Obviously the community will be able to define much more elaborate
  queries,
  including the ordering (will be supported by the new search backend)
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  I like the idea in principle, but think the syntax could use
 bikeshedding ;)
 
  If we use this as category pages, im a little worried that people could
 get
  confused and try to add [[category:Greek philosophers]] to a page, and
  expect it to work. We would need good error handling in that situation


 Also, at least at first, you couldn't use one of these synthetic
 categories to filter search results so you couldn't use them to build other
 synthetic categories.
 
  including the ordering (will be supported by the new search backend)
 
  Cool. I didnt realize search would support this. That's a pretty big deal
  since people expect there categorirs alphabetized.

 So I looked into it and it would be easy to implement with Cirrus _but_
 I'm not yet sure about the memory implications. We have a ton of headroom
 on memory now so it might not matter but I need to test it before I can be
 as confident that it is ok as I was last night at 1am. It may have caveats
 like synthetic categories must be less than 1000 articles or not all
 results are included.


 
  Another cool project would be to expand intersection/Dyanamic P age List
  (Wikimedia) to be able to use search as a different backend (however,
 that
  extension would need quite a bit of refactoring to get there)
 
  -bawolff
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-- 
Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
Software Engineer
Wikimedia Foundation
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