Re: [Wikitech-l] Mediawiki message delivery problems

[MZMcBride]

Purodha Blissenbach wrote:
>the point is do the writers know that?
>Seems not all. Who tells them?

Hi.

People sending messages to hundreds or thousands of users, potentially
across hundreds of Wikimedia wikis, ought to be familiar with standard
practices such as signing posts with a regular timestamp. If users are
unfamiliar with these practices, they probably should not be using the
MassMessage tool. Or, at minimum, they should be carefully reading the
user documentation, as instructed. :-)

I replied at .

Andre Klapper wrote:
>Currently the actual creator is added as a (HTML source code) comment
>(your link to the diff shows "User:Matiia@metawiki"). It's not too
>obvious and I'd also prefer real user names, for accountability.

I think you're referring to 
("Add support to MassMessage to allow using the sender's username for
deliveries")?

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikitech-l] Mediawiki message delivery problems

[Andre Klapper]

On Fri, 2015-12-11 at 09:02 +0100, Bináris wrote:
> Please, please, for anyobody working on Wikipedia, be basic to use !
> This is the first lesson taught.

Currently the actual creator is added as a (HTML source code) comment
(your link to the diff shows "User:Matiia@metawiki"). It's not too
obvious and I'd also prefer real user names, for accountability.

andre
-- 
Andre Klapper | Wikimedia Bugwrangler
http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/



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Re: [Wikitech-l] Mediawiki message delivery problems

[Purodha Blissenbach]

On 11.12.2015 10:40, Andre Klapper wrote:

On Fri, 2015-12-11 at 09:02 +0100, Bináris wrote:
Please, please, for anyobody working on Wikipedia, be basic to use 
!

This is the first lesson taught.


Currently the actual creator is added as a (HTML source code) comment
(your link to the diff shows "User:Matiia@metawiki"). It's not too
obvious and I'd also prefer real user names, for accountability.

andre


Reported as https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121209

Purodha


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Re: [Wikitech-l] Mediawiki message delivery problems

[Bináris]

2015-12-11 11:52 GMT+01:00 Purodha Blissenbach :


> Reported as https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121209
>

Nemo closed it as invalid. While he is right that correct solution is ~
(5 tildes rather than 4), he is not right that the issue is purely a user
error.

As mass delivery is a MW service (as far as I see, an extension), the
software should handle it: either put the tildes itself or refuse a
malformed message.

As Flow is ante portas (do I suppose correctly that it will work without
tildes as LQT did?), the extension should check the existence of Flow and
make the correct decision. At the point where some wikis use Flow and
others don't, it is no more the user's responsibility to deal with tildes.
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Mediawiki message delivery problems

[Brian Wolff]

On 12/11/15, Bináris  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I don't know who is in charge of this utility but perhaps some of you know
> a short way.
>
> Recently Mediawiki message delivery left a message on village pump of
> Hungarian Wikipedia without undersigning. The message wasn't archived for a
> long time until the issue was fixed manually.
>
> Tonight another mistake happened:
> https://hu.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikip%C3%A9dia:Kocsmafal_%28egy%C3%A9b%29=prev=16957114
> The message contains a fixed English format date according to GMT, while we
> are in GMT+1 and use Hungarian date format. The message won't be archived
> again, and other bots processing the archives cannot recognize the date.
>
> Please, please, for anyobody working on Wikipedia, be basic to use !
> This is the first lesson taught.
>
>
> --
> Bináris
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I'm not that familar with the mass message tool - but this seems more
like a "rules" thing, then a technical thing.

Perhaps the policy should be updated at meta where users have to end
their posts with a standard looking signature block:
[[m:User:Foo]] ~

--
-bawolff

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Mediawiki message delivery problems

[Legoktm]

Hi,

On 12/11/2015 05:42 AM, Bináris wrote:
> 2015-12-11 11:52 GMT+01:00 Purodha Blissenbach :
>> Reported as https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121209
> 
> Nemo closed it as invalid. While he is right that correct solution is ~
> (5 tildes rather than 4), he is not right that the issue is purely a user
> error.
> 
> As mass delivery is a MW service (as far as I see, an extension), the
> software should handle it: either put the tildes itself or refuse a
> malformed message.

MassMessage will warn[1] you if your message is missing a timestamp. It
won't forcibly make you add one because the detection is imperfect and
in principle, MassMessage doesn't restrict users, but tries to guide
them into not doing stupid things. I'm not sure if the warning would
have triggered in this case as a UTC timestamp is valid on Meta-Wiki,
which is where the message originated from.

There's also some discussion about how signatures should be added at [2].

[1]
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MassMessage_timestamp_warning.png
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:MassMessage#Signature_recommendation

-- Legoktm

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Mediawiki message delivery problems

[Purodha Blissenbach]

Hi,

the point is do the writers know that?
Seems not all. Who tells them?

Purodha

On 11.12.2015 20:48, Legoktm wrote:

Hi,

On 12/11/2015 05:42 AM, Bináris wrote:
2015-12-11 11:52 GMT+01:00 Purodha Blissenbach 
:

Reported as https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121209


Nemo closed it as invalid. While he is right that correct solution 
is ~
(5 tildes rather than 4), he is not right that the issue is purely a 
user

error.

As mass delivery is a MW service (as far as I see, an extension), 
the

software should handle it: either put the tildes itself or refuse a
malformed message.


MassMessage will warn[1] you if your message is missing a timestamp. 
It
won't forcibly make you add one because the detection is imperfect 
and

in principle, MassMessage doesn't restrict users, but tries to guide
them into not doing stupid things. I'm not sure if the warning would
have triggered in this case as a UTC timestamp is valid on Meta-Wiki,
which is where the message originated from.

There's also some discussion about how signatures should be added at 
[2].


[1]

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MassMessage_timestamp_warning.png
[2]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:MassMessage#Signature_recommendation

-- Legoktm

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[Wikitech-l] Mediawiki message delivery problems

[Bináris]

Hi,

I don't know who is in charge of this utility but perhaps some of you know
a short way.

Recently Mediawiki message delivery left a message on village pump of
Hungarian Wikipedia without undersigning. The message wasn't archived for a
long time until the issue was fixed manually.

Tonight another mistake happened:
https://hu.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikip%C3%A9dia:Kocsmafal_%28egy%C3%A9b%29=prev=16957114
The message contains a fixed English format date according to GMT, while we
are in GMT+1 and use Hungarian date format. The message won't be archived
again, and other bots processing the archives cannot recognize the date.

Please, please, for anyobody working on Wikipedia, be basic to use !
This is the first lesson taught.


-- 
Bináris
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