Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[RickG]

On that note. Can lightning protectors go partially bad or are they like a
fuse and either work or not?
-RickG

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer 
wrote:

> Even so, the performance should be the same both ways, not tx vs. rx.
>
> I still think he needs to look at the lightning arrestors.  Not sure how
> they could make a difference but that's the one thing that's unknown to me.
> marlon
>
>  - Original Message -
>  From: Travis Johnson
>  To: WISPA General List
>  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:05 PM
>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
>
>  Hi,
>
>  I have to agree with Gino here... even at 7 degree downtilt, you are
> cutting it very close. You may want to try 5 degrees on just one sector and
> see if that helps.
>
>  Travis
>
>
>  Michael Baird wrote:
> Gino, wisp-router.com, would the downtilt affect the AP RSSI level?
>
> Antenna Height
>ft
> Downtilt Angle
>°
> Vertical Beamwidth
>°
> Results
> Inner -3dB Radius   0.1 Miles
> Sweet spot  0.2 Miles
> Outer -3dB Radius   5.24Miles
>
>
> I told him 7.8, but I'm sure he didn't get dead on, just the best he
> could with his inclinometer.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>  Where are you running the calcs? I use
> http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/AntDowntiltCalc.as
>
> With your input, I get main lobe 0.2 miles / -3db @ 7
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Michael Baird
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:51 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
> Gino,
>
> 145', 15 degree VB, 7.7/7.8 puts my -3d at ~5 miles. If my downtilt was
> wrong, I would think it would impact the receive on my CPE's, much more
> then on the tower AP's, maybe that's a poor assumption on my part
> though.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>I think your downtilt is too much, whats your area and tower height?
> The beamwidth of the maxrad sector?
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On Behalf Of Michael Baird
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:29 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
> My sector's are Maxrad adjustable sector's horizontally polarized,
> adjusted to 120/13db, at 7.7 - 7.8 downtilt, trying to cover a 5 mile
> radius.
> Radios, are Ubiquity 400mw radio's, I've turned down to 23/200mw.
> CPE's, are Ubiquity PS2, same radio at 400mw, Horizontal antenna at 18
>
>
>dbi.
>
> RSSI at the CPE is great, RSSI at the AP is poor often different by
> 16-20 db.
>
> I also mentioned the RFLinx Qwave lightning arrestors, this is the
> first tower we've used them on.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>
>
>  I don't think that this would be an antenna location issue.
>
> What antennas did you use and where are they pointed?
>
> Also, what output are the radios?  If you use 600mw radios on the ap
> side and 100 mw radios on the rx side it'll make a difference.
>
> Also, having LOW power at the tx is almost always a good idea,
> especially when colocated like this.  I usually only run 15 to 17dB
> at
>
>
>
>
>  the ap's.  Most of my sectors are 13dB.  Yeah, I have customers at 18
>
>
>miles with multi meg RELIABLE service this way.  There are other
> customers at much shorter ranges that don't get reliable service, but
>
>
>that's caused by other issues :-).
>
>
>  We run most of our cpe at pretty high power these days due to the
> need
>
>
>
>
>  to blow through the overpowered competition or just over all noise
>
>
>levels.
>
>
>  Anyway, what gain are the antennas and where are they pointed?  How
> much downtilt etc.
>
> How far are the customers from the tower?
>
> What polarity are the antennas?  All the same, or did you mix it up?
>
> What are the cpe radios?  What power, what antennas etc.
>
> If you had a 15 db transmit antenna and a 15 db transmit radio
> shooting to a
> 15 dB panel at 5 miles you should see an rssi of, -83 or so.  Legally
>
>
>you could have 6 more dB at the AP side giving you around -77 at the
> cpe 5 miles out.
>
> Hope this helps!
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 1:09 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
>
>
>
>
>We've just installed a 3 sector 2.4 setup, at 145' with maxrad
>
>  120's.
>
>
>
>
>
>  I'm noticing the receive sensitivity on the AP's are about 15-20
> db's
>
>
>
>
>  different then what I see on the CPE's, tried a Tranzeo/Ubiquity
>
>
>  radio.
>
>
>  I'm using Ubiquity AP's, and they work fine on another 3 sector
> setup
>
>
>
>
>  I have, however this tower is an A-Frame. The tower ow

Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[Michael Baird]

At the base, I see no signals except from my radios, with the spectrum 
analyzer.

I've still not been able to get the guy to climb the tower, in other 
forum's I've found people with horizontal antennas, having a problem on 
RX at the AP only with too much downtilt. Near the tower there are a few 
apartment complexes and hotels that are in the focus of the main beam at 
that downtilt. When I get the guy up on the tower, I am going to try 
uptilting it first for sure, maybe with that tilt they are picking up 
more noise then they should be.

Regards
Michael Baird
> It sure seems like interference since it's on all three APs, even when  
> you turn off the other two. One bad radio is possible but not three.
>
> Could there be some others source of interference near but not on the  
> tower?
>
> Greg
> On Jun 16, 2009, at 10:13 AM, Michael Baird wrote:
>
>   
>> The only other things on the tower according to the owner, is at  
>> 150mhz
>> and 450 mhz.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>> 
>>> Could there be any other source of interference? What else is on the
>>> tower?
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> On Jun 16, 2009, at 8:37 AM, Michael Baird wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 I actually shut the radio's off on the two opposite sectors and  
 didn't
 see improvement, tried that with all three sectors, they all read
 about
 the same.

 From the suggestions here and elsewhere, I'm going to do the  
 following
 one at a time.

 1). Spectrum analyze with all the radios off.

 2). Adjust the downtilt first, I have a client setup, I'll adjust  
 the
 downtilt on their sector from 7.8 to 4 degrees and see what happens,
 if
 that helps I'll go to 0.3 and look at the settings, which will align
 the
 main beam to 5 miles out, and try to catch everybody underneath, I
 have
 seen confirmation that downtilt can affect just the AP side.

 3). Remove the LP and see if that makes any difference, our inhouse
 testing doesn't show any impact though.

 4). Separate the radios by 10 feet vertically, I will do this  
 anyway,
 although turning off the other sectors should have taken this out of
 the
 equation, unless the other two sectors are reflecting on each other
 badly, because of their close proximity.

 5). Change out a radio, and see if somehow all of my radio's got
 fried.

 Regards
 Michael Baird

 
> Michael
>
> If you can reduce the TX power on 2 of the sectors and see if the
> third has RSL improvement
>
> Bob
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Blair Davis 
>
> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 22:44:52
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>
>   
 
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Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[Josh Luthman]

I know cat5 surge supressors go partially bad.

On 6/18/09, RickG  wrote:
> On that note. Can lightning protectors go partially bad or are they like a
> fuse and either work or not?
> -RickG
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
> wrote:
>
>> Even so, the performance should be the same both ways, not tx vs. rx.
>>
>> I still think he needs to look at the lightning arrestors.  Not sure how
>> they could make a difference but that's the one thing that's unknown to
>> me.
>> marlon
>>
>>  - Original Message -
>>  From: Travis Johnson
>>  To: WISPA General List
>>  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:05 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>
>>
>>  Hi,
>>
>>  I have to agree with Gino here... even at 7 degree downtilt, you are
>> cutting it very close. You may want to try 5 degrees on just one sector
>> and
>> see if that helps.
>>
>>  Travis
>>
>>
>>  Michael Baird wrote:
>> Gino, wisp-router.com, would the downtilt affect the AP RSSI level?
>>
>> Antenna Height
>>ft
>> Downtilt Angle
>>°
>> Vertical Beamwidth
>>°
>> Results
>> Inner -3dB Radius   0.1 Miles
>> Sweet spot  0.2 Miles
>> Outer -3dB Radius   5.24Miles
>>
>>
>> I told him 7.8, but I'm sure he didn't get dead on, just the best he
>> could with his inclinometer.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>  Where are you running the calcs? I use
>> http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/AntDowntiltCalc.as
>>
>> With your input, I get main lobe 0.2 miles / -3db @ 7
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Michael Baird
>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:51 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>
>> Gino,
>>
>> 145', 15 degree VB, 7.7/7.8 puts my -3d at ~5 miles. If my downtilt was
>> wrong, I would think it would impact the receive on my CPE's, much more
>> then on the tower AP's, maybe that's a poor assumption on my part
>> though.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>
>>I think your downtilt is too much, whats your area and tower height?
>> The beamwidth of the maxrad sector?
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On Behalf Of Michael Baird
>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:29 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>
>> My sector's are Maxrad adjustable sector's horizontally polarized,
>> adjusted to 120/13db, at 7.7 - 7.8 downtilt, trying to cover a 5 mile
>> radius.
>> Radios, are Ubiquity 400mw radio's, I've turned down to 23/200mw.
>> CPE's, are Ubiquity PS2, same radio at 400mw, Horizontal antenna at 18
>>
>>
>>dbi.
>>
>> RSSI at the CPE is great, RSSI at the AP is poor often different by
>> 16-20 db.
>>
>> I also mentioned the RFLinx Qwave lightning arrestors, this is the
>> first tower we've used them on.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>
>>
>>
>>  I don't think that this would be an antenna location issue.
>>
>> What antennas did you use and where are they pointed?
>>
>> Also, what output are the radios?  If you use 600mw radios on the ap
>> side and 100 mw radios on the rx side it'll make a difference.
>>
>> Also, having LOW power at the tx is almost always a good idea,
>> especially when colocated like this.  I usually only run 15 to 17dB
>> at
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  the ap's.  Most of my sectors are 13dB.  Yeah, I have customers at 18
>>
>>
>>miles with multi meg RELIABLE service this way.  There are other
>> customers at much shorter ranges that don't get reliable service, but
>>
>>
>>that's caused by other issues :-).
>>
>>
>>  We run most of our cpe at pretty high power these days due to the
>> need
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  to blow through the overpowered competition or just over all noise
>>
>>
>>levels.
>>
>>
>>  Anyway, what gain are the antennas and where are they pointed?  How
>> much downtilt etc.
>>
>> How far are the customers from the tower?
>>
>> What polarity are the antennas?  All the same, or did you mix it up?
>>
>> What are the cpe radios?  What power, what antennas etc.
>>
>> If you had a 15 db transmit antenna and a 15 db transmit radio
>> shooting to a
>> 15 dB panel at 5 miles you should see an rssi of, -83 or so.  Legally
>>
>>
>>you could have 6 more dB at the AP side giving you around -77 at the
>> cpe 5 miles out.
>>
>> Hope this helps!
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 1:09 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>We've just installed a 3 sector 2.4 setup, at 145' with maxrad
>>
>>  120's.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  I'm noticing the receive sensitivity on the AP's are ab

Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[Kurt Fankhauser]

You can't check with a spectrum anylyzer at the base! You have to climp the
tower and plug each antenna in to the spectrum anyalyzer. 

Also there is no "black magic" involved. Wireless can all be explained with
laws of physics. There are too many wireless providers out there that just
"plug and pray." Most of them just get lucky and the stuff "just works."
They can't even explain why it works. 

You need to go down this list and check everything:

1. Test all radio's, pigtails, coax with a power meter.
2. Check SWR on all the antennas.
3. If you have a spectrum analyzer, consider yourself lucky and check each
sector at the antenna port.
4. Who made the coax jumpers? Make sure center pin is flat against edge of
connector. I've seen N connectors not work at 2.4ghz but work at 5.8ghz due
to this.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com
 
 
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:22 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

At the base, I see no signals except from my radios, with the spectrum 
analyzer.

I've still not been able to get the guy to climb the tower, in other 
forum's I've found people with horizontal antennas, having a problem on 
RX at the AP only with too much downtilt. Near the tower there are a few 
apartment complexes and hotels that are in the focus of the main beam at 
that downtilt. When I get the guy up on the tower, I am going to try 
uptilting it first for sure, maybe with that tilt they are picking up 
more noise then they should be.

Regards
Michael Baird
> It sure seems like interference since it's on all three APs, even when  
> you turn off the other two. One bad radio is possible but not three.
>
> Could there be some others source of interference near but not on the  
> tower?
>
> Greg
> On Jun 16, 2009, at 10:13 AM, Michael Baird wrote:
>
>   
>> The only other things on the tower according to the owner, is at  
>> 150mhz
>> and 450 mhz.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>> 
>>> Could there be any other source of interference? What else is on the
>>> tower?
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> On Jun 16, 2009, at 8:37 AM, Michael Baird wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 I actually shut the radio's off on the two opposite sectors and  
 didn't
 see improvement, tried that with all three sectors, they all read
 about
 the same.

 From the suggestions here and elsewhere, I'm going to do the  
 following
 one at a time.

 1). Spectrum analyze with all the radios off.

 2). Adjust the downtilt first, I have a client setup, I'll adjust  
 the
 downtilt on their sector from 7.8 to 4 degrees and see what happens,
 if
 that helps I'll go to 0.3 and look at the settings, which will align
 the
 main beam to 5 miles out, and try to catch everybody underneath, I
 have
 seen confirmation that downtilt can affect just the AP side.

 3). Remove the LP and see if that makes any difference, our inhouse
 testing doesn't show any impact though.

 4). Separate the radios by 10 feet vertically, I will do this  
 anyway,
 although turning off the other sectors should have taken this out of
 the
 equation, unless the other two sectors are reflecting on each other
 badly, because of their close proximity.

 5). Change out a radio, and see if somehow all of my radio's got
 fried.

 Regards
 Michael Baird

 
> Michael
>
> If you can reduce the TX power on 2 of the sectors and see if the
> third has RSL improvement
>
> Bob
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Blair Davis 
>
> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 22:44:52
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


>
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>
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>
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>
>


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> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


>
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>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>   

Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[Marlon K. Schafer]

I don't know.  I'd guess that it could to either way.  I've certainly seen 
bad connectors effect rx more than tx.  My GUESS is that it was related to 
the amount of corrosion that can be overcome by 1 watt vs. .01 watts.  I've 
seen that more than once.

I took one lightning arrestor apart and it was nothing but an air gap inside 
a tube.  I can't see how something like that could go goofy like we're 
seeing here.  But stranger things have happened.

I'm not at all sure about the gas tube ones.  I'm told that you should 
change the tube in at least some of them.  The gas eventually fails and 
needs to be replaced.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "RickG" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation


On that note. Can lightning protectors go partially bad or are they like a
fuse and either work or not?
-RickG

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer 
wrote:

> Even so, the performance should be the same both ways, not tx vs. rx.
>
> I still think he needs to look at the lightning arrestors.  Not sure how
> they could make a difference but that's the one thing that's unknown to 
> me.
> marlon
>
>  - Original Message -
>  From: Travis Johnson
>  To: WISPA General List
>  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:05 PM
>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
>
>  Hi,
>
>  I have to agree with Gino here... even at 7 degree downtilt, you are
> cutting it very close. You may want to try 5 degrees on just one sector 
> and
> see if that helps.
>
>  Travis
>
>
>  Michael Baird wrote:
> Gino, wisp-router.com, would the downtilt affect the AP RSSI level?
>
> Antenna Height
>ft
> Downtilt Angle
>°
> Vertical Beamwidth
>°
> Results
> Inner -3dB Radius   0.1 Miles
> Sweet spot  0.2 Miles
> Outer -3dB Radius   5.24Miles
>
>
> I told him 7.8, but I'm sure he didn't get dead on, just the best he
> could with his inclinometer.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>  Where are you running the calcs? I use
> http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/AntDowntiltCalc.as
>
> With your input, I get main lobe 0.2 miles / -3db @ 7
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Michael Baird
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:51 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
> Gino,
>
> 145', 15 degree VB, 7.7/7.8 puts my -3d at ~5 miles. If my downtilt was
> wrong, I would think it would impact the receive on my CPE's, much more
> then on the tower AP's, maybe that's a poor assumption on my part
> though.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>I think your downtilt is too much, whats your area and tower height?
> The beamwidth of the maxrad sector?
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On Behalf Of Michael Baird
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:29 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
> My sector's are Maxrad adjustable sector's horizontally polarized,
> adjusted to 120/13db, at 7.7 - 7.8 downtilt, trying to cover a 5 mile
> radius.
> Radios, are Ubiquity 400mw radio's, I've turned down to 23/200mw.
> CPE's, are Ubiquity PS2, same radio at 400mw, Horizontal antenna at 18
>
>
>dbi.
>
> RSSI at the CPE is great, RSSI at the AP is poor often different by
> 16-20 db.
>
> I also mentioned the RFLinx Qwave lightning arrestors, this is the
> first tower we've used them on.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>
>
>  I don't think that this would be an antenna location issue.
>
> What antennas did you use and where are they pointed?
>
> Also, what output are the radios?  If you use 600mw radios on the ap
> side and 100 mw radios on the rx side it'll make a difference.
>
> Also, having LOW power at the tx is almost always a good idea,
> especially when colocated like this.  I usually only run 15 to 17dB
> at
>
>
>
>
>  the ap's.  Most of my sectors are 13dB.  Yeah, I have customers at 18
>
>
>miles with multi meg RELIABLE service this way.  There are other
> customers at much shorter ranges that don't get reliable service, but
>
>
>that's caused by other issues :-).
>
>
>  We run most of our cpe at pretty high power these days due to the
> need
>
>
>
>
>  to blow through the overpowered competition or just over all noise
>
>
>levels.
>
>
>  Anyway, what gain are the antennas and where are they pointed?  How
> much downtilt etc.
>
> How far are the customers from the tower?
>
> What polarity are the antennas?  All the same, or did you mix it up?
>
> What are the cpe radios?  What power, what antennas etc.
>
> If you had a 15 db transmit antenna and a 15 db trans

Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[Michael Baird]

Kurt,

We are testing some of this at a different tower, where one of the AP's 
has flaked out, and we can climb it.

We didn't test all the radios/pigtails/coax or lightning arrestor before 
deploying, good idea though, will do so in the future, what kind of 
meter do we need to test these?

Is that SWR or VSWR, I have a SWR meter, wasn't sure that would do for 
this stuff.

I know the spectrum analyzer at the base isn't the same, but it was all 
I could do on this tower, since I can't climb it with my own people.

We got the 2-foot N-N LMR-400 jumpers from L-com, the seem well made, 
and a nice fit.

Regards
Michael Baird
> You can't check with a spectrum anylyzer at the base! You have to climp the
> tower and plug each antenna in to the spectrum anyalyzer. 
>
> Also there is no "black magic" involved. Wireless can all be explained with
> laws of physics. There are too many wireless providers out there that just
> "plug and pray." Most of them just get lucky and the stuff "just works."
> They can't even explain why it works. 
>
> You need to go down this list and check everything:
>
> 1. Test all radio's, pigtails, coax with a power meter.
> 2. Check SWR on all the antennas.
> 3. If you have a spectrum analyzer, consider yourself lucky and check each
> sector at the antenna port.
> 4. Who made the coax jumpers? Make sure center pin is flat against edge of
> connector. I've seen N connectors not work at 2.4ghz but work at 5.8ghz due
> to this.
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
> WAVELINC
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> 419-562-6405
> www.wavelinc.com
>  
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Michael Baird
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:22 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
> At the base, I see no signals except from my radios, with the spectrum 
> analyzer.
>
> I've still not been able to get the guy to climb the tower, in other 
> forum's I've found people with horizontal antennas, having a problem on 
> RX at the AP only with too much downtilt. Near the tower there are a few 
> apartment complexes and hotels that are in the focus of the main beam at 
> that downtilt. When I get the guy up on the tower, I am going to try 
> uptilting it first for sure, maybe with that tilt they are picking up 
> more noise then they should be.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>   
>> It sure seems like interference since it's on all three APs, even when  
>> you turn off the other two. One bad radio is possible but not three.
>>
>> Could there be some others source of interference near but not on the  
>> tower?
>>
>> Greg
>> On Jun 16, 2009, at 10:13 AM, Michael Baird wrote:
>>
>>   
>> 
>>> The only other things on the tower according to the owner, is at  
>>> 150mhz
>>> and 450 mhz.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>> 
>>>   
 Could there be any other source of interference? What else is on the
 tower?

 Greg

 On Jun 16, 2009, at 8:37 AM, Michael Baird wrote:


   
 
> I actually shut the radio's off on the two opposite sectors and  
> didn't
> see improvement, tried that with all three sectors, they all read
> about
> the same.
>
> From the suggestions here and elsewhere, I'm going to do the  
> following
> one at a time.
>
> 1). Spectrum analyze with all the radios off.
>
> 2). Adjust the downtilt first, I have a client setup, I'll adjust  
> the
> downtilt on their sector from 7.8 to 4 degrees and see what happens,
> if
> that helps I'll go to 0.3 and look at the settings, which will align
> the
> main beam to 5 miles out, and try to catch everybody underneath, I
> have
> seen confirmation that downtilt can affect just the AP side.
>
> 3). Remove the LP and see if that makes any difference, our inhouse
> testing doesn't show any impact though.
>
> 4). Separate the radios by 10 feet vertically, I will do this  
> anyway,
> although turning off the other sectors should have taken this out of
> the
> equation, unless the other two sectors are reflecting on each other
> badly, because of their close proximity.
>
> 5). Change out a radio, and see if somehow all of my radio's got
> fried.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
> 
>   
>> Michael
>>
>> If you can reduce the TX power on 2 of the sectors and see if the
>> third has RSL improvement
>>
>> Bob
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Blair Davis 
>>
>> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 22:44:52
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> 
> 
>   
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!

Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[Michael Baird]

Marlon,

Yea, it's ok, we wouldn't have learned anything if it worked properly 
the first time. This tower is not in production, it's our first build 
out, we will learn. We aren't using gas-powered lightning arrestors, 
they are RFLinx quarter wave type arrestors.

Regards
Michael Baird
> I don't know.  I'd guess that it could to either way.  I've certainly seen 
> bad connectors effect rx more than tx.  My GUESS is that it was related to 
> the amount of corrosion that can be overcome by 1 watt vs. .01 watts.  I've 
> seen that more than once.
>
> I took one lightning arrestor apart and it was nothing but an air gap inside 
> a tube.  I can't see how something like that could go goofy like we're 
> seeing here.  But stranger things have happened.
>
> I'm not at all sure about the gas tube ones.  I'm told that you should 
> change the tube in at least some of them.  The gas eventually fails and 
> needs to be replaced.
>
> laters,
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "RickG" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 7:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
>
> On that note. Can lightning protectors go partially bad or are they like a
> fuse and either work or not?
> -RickG
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer 
> wrote:
>
>   
>> Even so, the performance should be the same both ways, not tx vs. rx.
>>
>> I still think he needs to look at the lightning arrestors.  Not sure how
>> they could make a difference but that's the one thing that's unknown to 
>> me.
>> marlon
>>
>>  - Original Message -
>>  From: Travis Johnson
>>  To: WISPA General List
>>  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:05 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>
>>
>>  Hi,
>>
>>  I have to agree with Gino here... even at 7 degree downtilt, you are
>> cutting it very close. You may want to try 5 degrees on just one sector 
>> and
>> see if that helps.
>>
>>  Travis
>>
>>
>>  Michael Baird wrote:
>> Gino, wisp-router.com, would the downtilt affect the AP RSSI level?
>>
>> Antenna Height
>>ft
>> Downtilt Angle
>>°
>> Vertical Beamwidth
>>°
>> Results
>> Inner -3dB Radius   0.1 Miles
>> Sweet spot  0.2 Miles
>> Outer -3dB Radius   5.24Miles
>>
>>
>> I told him 7.8, but I'm sure he didn't get dead on, just the best he
>> could with his inclinometer.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>  Where are you running the calcs? I use
>> http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/AntDowntiltCalc.as
>>
>> With your input, I get main lobe 0.2 miles / -3db @ 7
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Michael Baird
>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:51 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>
>> Gino,
>>
>> 145', 15 degree VB, 7.7/7.8 puts my -3d at ~5 miles. If my downtilt was
>> wrong, I would think it would impact the receive on my CPE's, much more
>> then on the tower AP's, maybe that's a poor assumption on my part
>> though.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>
>>I think your downtilt is too much, whats your area and tower height?
>> The beamwidth of the maxrad sector?
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On Behalf Of Michael Baird
>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:29 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>
>> My sector's are Maxrad adjustable sector's horizontally polarized,
>> adjusted to 120/13db, at 7.7 - 7.8 downtilt, trying to cover a 5 mile
>> radius.
>> Radios, are Ubiquity 400mw radio's, I've turned down to 23/200mw.
>> CPE's, are Ubiquity PS2, same radio at 400mw, Horizontal antenna at 18
>>
>>
>>dbi.
>>
>> RSSI at the CPE is great, RSSI at the AP is poor often different by
>> 16-20 db.
>>
>> I also mentioned the RFLinx Qwave lightning arrestors, this is the
>> first tower we've used them on.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>
>>
>>
>>  I don't think that this would be an antenna location issue.
>>
>> What antennas did you use and where are they pointed?
>>
>> Also, what output are the radios?  If you use 600mw radios on the ap
>> side and 100 mw radios on the rx side it'll make a difference.
>>
>> Also, having LOW power at the tx is almost always a good idea,
>> especially when colocated like this.  I usually only run 15 to 17dB
>> at
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  the ap's.  Most of my sectors are 13dB.  Yeah, I have customers at 18
>>
>>
>>miles with multi meg RELIABLE service this way.  There are other
>> customers at much shorter ranges that don't get reliable service, but
>>
>>
>>that's caused by other issues :-).
>>
>>
>>  We run most of our cpe at pretty hi

[WISPA] 3.65GHz Exclusion Zone

[3-dB Networks]

Okay I'm banging my head against the wall a bit this morning J

 

Subpart Z of the FCC Part 90 Rules - Wireless Broadband Serices in the
3650-3700 MHz Band - Section 90.1331 states:

 

"(a)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(2) of this section, base and
fixed stations may not be located within 150 km of any grandfathered
satellite earth station operating in the 3650-3700 MHz band. The coordinates
of these stations are available at http://www.fcc.gov/ib/sd/3650";

 

My interpretation of that rule would mean that you need to draw a circle of
a radius of 150Km from each station, and this is your exclusion zone.

 

Yet many maps on the web show this 150Km requirement as diameter. not as a
radius.

 

Our office would be outside of the exclusion zone if it is a diameter
requirement, yet inside the exclusion zone if it is a radius requirement.

 

Can anyone point me to something from the FCC that specifies what the
requirement is?

 

Thank you,

 

Daniel White

3-dB Networks

http://www.3dbnetworks.com

 




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[WISPA] WISP test equipment (was Re: Radio Seperation)

[John Valenti]

Kurt & others,

What sort of test equipment do you use to check radios and antenna SWR?

My ham friend has a Bird Wattmeter, he was suggesting I get a slug  
that would cover 900MHz and another for 2.4.  Would I get any useful  
information from a Wattmeter?

thanks

On Jun 21, 2009, at 10:33 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

> 1. Test all radio's, pigtails, coax with a power meter.
> 2. Check SWR on all the antennas.




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[WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Patrick D.. Nix, Jr]

Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at either
implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which would be
the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good

 

Thanks




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Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz Exclusion Zone

[Pat O'Connor]

It is being 150km form the grandfathered earth station.  I'm going 
through the same thing right now getting an agreement from them to 
operate WiMax gear.  BTW I'm at a 145km distance from them, but the FCC 
won't register my base stations without an agreement.



3-dB Networks wrote:
> Okay I'm banging my head against the wall a bit this morning J
>
>  
>
> Subpart Z of the FCC Part 90 Rules - Wireless Broadband Serices in the
> 3650-3700 MHz Band - Section 90.1331 states:
>
>  
>
> "(a)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(2) of this section, base and
> fixed stations may not be located within 150 km of any grandfathered
> satellite earth station operating in the 3650-3700 MHz band. The coordinates
> of these stations are available at http://www.fcc.gov/ib/sd/3650";
>
>  
>
> My interpretation of that rule would mean that you need to draw a circle of
> a radius of 150Km from each station, and this is your exclusion zone.
>
>  
>
> Yet many maps on the web show this 150Km requirement as diameter. not as a
> radius.
>
>  
>
> Our office would be outside of the exclusion zone if it is a diameter
> requirement, yet inside the exclusion zone if it is a radius requirement.
>
>  
>
> Can anyone point me to something from the FCC that specifies what the
> requirement is?
>
>  
>
> Thank you,
>
>  
>
> Daniel White
>
> 3-dB Networks
>
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
>  
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>   





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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Alan Long]

How may users behind it? How much throughput?


Aerowire
Alan Long
Director of Network Operations
alan.l...@aerowire.net
687 North Dean Road
Auburn, AL 36830
tel: 3342759998
mobile: 336092

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:30 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at either
implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which would be
the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good

 

Thanks





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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.76/2183 - Release Date: 06/18/09
05:53:00




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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Gino Villarini]

Mikrotik 


Gino A. Villarini
g...@aeronetpr.com
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:30 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at either
implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which would be
the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good

 

Thanks





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Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[Kurt Fankhauser]

I have been using this meter,
http://www.streakwave.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=PM%2D2458&eq=&Tp=

It checks forward power, reflected power, and will give you the SWR reading.
Its been a lifesaver.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com
 
 
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:53 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

Kurt,

We are testing some of this at a different tower, where one of the AP's 
has flaked out, and we can climb it.

We didn't test all the radios/pigtails/coax or lightning arrestor before 
deploying, good idea though, will do so in the future, what kind of 
meter do we need to test these?

Is that SWR or VSWR, I have a SWR meter, wasn't sure that would do for 
this stuff.

I know the spectrum analyzer at the base isn't the same, but it was all 
I could do on this tower, since I can't climb it with my own people.

We got the 2-foot N-N LMR-400 jumpers from L-com, the seem well made, 
and a nice fit.

Regards
Michael Baird
> You can't check with a spectrum anylyzer at the base! You have to climp
the
> tower and plug each antenna in to the spectrum anyalyzer. 
>
> Also there is no "black magic" involved. Wireless can all be explained
with
> laws of physics. There are too many wireless providers out there that just
> "plug and pray." Most of them just get lucky and the stuff "just works."
> They can't even explain why it works. 
>
> You need to go down this list and check everything:
>
> 1. Test all radio's, pigtails, coax with a power meter.
> 2. Check SWR on all the antennas.
> 3. If you have a spectrum analyzer, consider yourself lucky and check each
> sector at the antenna port.
> 4. Who made the coax jumpers? Make sure center pin is flat against edge of
> connector. I've seen N connectors not work at 2.4ghz but work at 5.8ghz
due
> to this.
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
> WAVELINC
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> 419-562-6405
> www.wavelinc.com
>  
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Michael Baird
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:22 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
> At the base, I see no signals except from my radios, with the spectrum 
> analyzer.
>
> I've still not been able to get the guy to climb the tower, in other 
> forum's I've found people with horizontal antennas, having a problem on 
> RX at the AP only with too much downtilt. Near the tower there are a few 
> apartment complexes and hotels that are in the focus of the main beam at 
> that downtilt. When I get the guy up on the tower, I am going to try 
> uptilting it first for sure, maybe with that tilt they are picking up 
> more noise then they should be.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>   
>> It sure seems like interference since it's on all three APs, even when  
>> you turn off the other two. One bad radio is possible but not three.
>>
>> Could there be some others source of interference near but not on the  
>> tower?
>>
>> Greg
>> On Jun 16, 2009, at 10:13 AM, Michael Baird wrote:
>>
>>   
>> 
>>> The only other things on the tower according to the owner, is at  
>>> 150mhz
>>> and 450 mhz.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>> 
>>>   
 Could there be any other source of interference? What else is on the
 tower?

 Greg

 On Jun 16, 2009, at 8:37 AM, Michael Baird wrote:


   
 
> I actually shut the radio's off on the two opposite sectors and  
> didn't
> see improvement, tried that with all three sectors, they all read
> about
> the same.
>
> From the suggestions here and elsewhere, I'm going to do the  
> following
> one at a time.
>
> 1). Spectrum analyze with all the radios off.
>
> 2). Adjust the downtilt first, I have a client setup, I'll adjust  
> the
> downtilt on their sector from 7.8 to 4 degrees and see what happens,
> if
> that helps I'll go to 0.3 and look at the settings, which will align
> the
> main beam to 5 miles out, and try to catch everybody underneath, I
> have
> seen confirmation that downtilt can affect just the AP side.
>
> 3). Remove the LP and see if that makes any difference, our inhouse
> testing doesn't show any impact though.
>
> 4). Separate the radios by 10 feet vertically, I will do this  
> anyway,
> although turning off the other sectors should have taken this out of
> the
> equation, unless the other two sectors are reflecting on each other
> badly, because of their close proximity.
>
> 5). Change out a radio, and see if somehow all of my radio's got
> fried.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
> 
>   
>> Michael
>>
>> If you can reduce the TX powe

Re: [WISPA] WISP test equipment (was Re: Radio Seperation)

[Kurt Fankhauser]

John,

I have a bird wattmeter as well, while it works great on 2 way radio
equipment that has a constant TX (holding down mic key) it would not work so
well for WIFI because the radio would not be in a constant TX as it would be
switching back and forth between TX and RX. You would be better suited to
buy one of the following meters, http://www.vswrmeter.com/

I have one and it works very well, should have bought one a long time ago,
would have saved a lot of headaches. You can buy them from streakwave. They
are about $1500+ but I found one on eBay for $650 that was a demo so you may
have to shop around.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com
 
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of John Valenti
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:15 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] WISP test equipment (was Re: Radio Seperation)

Kurt & others,

What sort of test equipment do you use to check radios and antenna SWR?

My ham friend has a Bird Wattmeter, he was suggesting I get a slug  
that would cover 900MHz and another for 2.4.  Would I get any useful  
information from a Wattmeter?

thanks

On Jun 21, 2009, at 10:33 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

> 1. Test all radio's, pigtails, coax with a power meter.
> 2. Check SWR on all the antennas.





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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Josh Luthman]

Maybe you could provide more detail as to your application.

In most situations I agree with Gino, MikroTik.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> Mikrotik
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:30 AM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>
> Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at either
> implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which would be
> the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Patrick D.. Nix, Jr]

Basically just wanting to protect our servers 8 servers total (3 email 2
DNS 1 Web 2 offsite backup)

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Alan Long
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:34 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

How may users behind it? How much throughput?


Aerowire
Alan Long
Director of Network Operations
alan.l...@aerowire.net
687 North Dean Road
Auburn, AL 36830
tel: 3342759998
mobile: 336092

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:30 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at either
implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which would be
the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good

 

Thanks






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Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.76/2183 - Release Date:
06/18/09
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Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[David Hulsebus]

I've had the quarter waves that take multiple strikes go partially out 
in the past. Gas tubes have just blown.

Dave

RickG wrote:
> On that note. Can lightning protectors go partially bad or are they like a
> fuse and either work or not?
> -RickG
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer 
> wrote:
>
>   
>> Even so, the performance should be the same both ways, not tx vs. rx.
>>
>> I still think he needs to look at the lightning arrestors.  Not sure how
>> they could make a difference but that's the one thing that's unknown to me.
>> marlon
>>
>>  - Original Message -
>>  From: Travis Johnson
>>  To: WISPA General List
>>  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:05 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>
>>
>>  Hi,
>>
>>  I have to agree with Gino here... even at 7 degree downtilt, you are
>> cutting it very close. You may want to try 5 degrees on just one sector and
>> see if that helps.
>>
>>  Travis
>>
>>
>>  Michael Baird wrote:
>> Gino, wisp-router.com, would the downtilt affect the AP RSSI level?
>>
>> Antenna Height
>>ft
>> Downtilt Angle
>>°
>> Vertical Beamwidth
>>°
>> Results
>> Inner -3dB Radius   0.1 Miles
>> Sweet spot  0.2 Miles
>> Outer -3dB Radius   5.24Miles
>>
>>
>> I told him 7.8, but I'm sure he didn't get dead on, just the best he
>> could with his inclinometer.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>  Where are you running the calcs? I use
>> http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/AntDowntiltCalc.as
>>
>> With your input, I get main lobe 0.2 miles / -3db @ 7
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Michael Baird
>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:51 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>
>> Gino,
>>
>> 145', 15 degree VB, 7.7/7.8 puts my -3d at ~5 miles. If my downtilt was
>> wrong, I would think it would impact the receive on my CPE's, much more
>> then on the tower AP's, maybe that's a poor assumption on my part
>> though.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>
>>I think your downtilt is too much, whats your area and tower height?
>> The beamwidth of the maxrad sector?
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On Behalf Of Michael Baird
>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:29 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>
>> My sector's are Maxrad adjustable sector's horizontally polarized,
>> adjusted to 120/13db, at 7.7 - 7.8 downtilt, trying to cover a 5 mile
>> radius.
>> Radios, are Ubiquity 400mw radio's, I've turned down to 23/200mw.
>> CPE's, are Ubiquity PS2, same radio at 400mw, Horizontal antenna at 18
>>
>>
>>dbi.
>>
>> RSSI at the CPE is great, RSSI at the AP is poor often different by
>> 16-20 db.
>>
>> I also mentioned the RFLinx Qwave lightning arrestors, this is the
>> first tower we've used them on.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>
>>
>>
>>  I don't think that this would be an antenna location issue.
>>
>> What antennas did you use and where are they pointed?
>>
>> Also, what output are the radios?  If you use 600mw radios on the ap
>> side and 100 mw radios on the rx side it'll make a difference.
>>
>> Also, having LOW power at the tx is almost always a good idea,
>> especially when colocated like this.  I usually only run 15 to 17dB
>> at
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  the ap's.  Most of my sectors are 13dB.  Yeah, I have customers at 18
>>
>>
>>miles with multi meg RELIABLE service this way.  There are other
>> customers at much shorter ranges that don't get reliable service, but
>>
>>
>>that's caused by other issues :-).
>>
>>
>>  We run most of our cpe at pretty high power these days due to the
>> need
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  to blow through the overpowered competition or just over all noise
>>
>>
>>levels.
>>
>>
>>  Anyway, what gain are the antennas and where are they pointed?  How
>> much downtilt etc.
>>
>> How far are the customers from the tower?
>>
>> What polarity are the antennas?  All the same, or did you mix it up?
>>
>> What are the cpe radios?  What power, what antennas etc.
>>
>> If you had a 15 db transmit antenna and a 15 db transmit radio
>> shooting to a
>> 15 dB panel at 5 miles you should see an rssi of, -83 or so.  Legally
>>
>>
>>you could have 6 more dB at the AP side giving you around -77 at the
>> cpe 5 miles out.
>>
>> Hope this helps!
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 1:09 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>We've just installed a 3 sector 2.4 setup, at 145' with maxrad
>>
>>  120's.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   

Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Patrick D.. Nix, Jr]

Yes, I use mikrotik for end user protection and routing but I'm not sure
that will fit the bill here.  I think I may need more of a corporate
type solution.  I've used Watchguard and cisco products in the past but
I thought maybe I could save some $$ and go with a linux homebrew

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:44 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

Maybe you could provide more detail as to your application.

In most situations I agree with Gino, MikroTik.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Gino Villarini 
wrote:

> Mikrotik
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
> Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:30 AM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>
> Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at
either
> implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which would
be
> the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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>
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>
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz Exclusion Zone

[3-dB Networks]

I wonder why all of those maps have it different...

For instance:  http://zing.naviciti.com/

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Pat O'Connor
>Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:32 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz Exclusion Zone
>
>It is being 150km form the grandfathered earth station.  I'm going
>through the same thing right now getting an agreement from them to
>operate WiMax gear.  BTW I'm at a 145km distance from them, but the FCC
>won't register my base stations without an agreement.
>
>
>
>3-dB Networks wrote:
>> Okay I'm banging my head against the wall a bit this morning J
>>
>>
>>
>> Subpart Z of the FCC Part 90 Rules - Wireless Broadband Serices in the
>> 3650-3700 MHz Band - Section 90.1331 states:
>>
>>
>>
>> "(a)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(2) of this section, base
>and
>> fixed stations may not be located within 150 km of any grandfathered
>> satellite earth station operating in the 3650-3700 MHz band. The
>coordinates
>> of these stations are available at http://www.fcc.gov/ib/sd/3650";
>>
>>
>>
>> My interpretation of that rule would mean that you need to draw a
>circle of
>> a radius of 150Km from each station, and this is your exclusion zone.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yet many maps on the web show this 150Km requirement as diameter. not
>as a
>> radius.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our office would be outside of the exclusion zone if it is a diameter
>> requirement, yet inside the exclusion zone if it is a radius
>requirement.
>>
>>
>>
>> Can anyone point me to something from the FCC that specifies what the
>> requirement is?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>>
>> Daniel White
>>
>> 3-dB Networks
>>
>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>--
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>--
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>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Josh Luthman]

Typically if you're protecting it versus someone who knows what they're
doing it's the software that's open (pop/imap/smtp/web/etc) that becomes the
vulnerability, not the network.

If it were me, I would use MikroTik.  If there is a break I can troubleshoot
it 100x faster and easier with MT then anything else.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Patrick D.. Nix, Jr <
pni...@cnetworksolutions.com> wrote:

> Yes, I use mikrotik for end user protection and routing but I'm not sure
> that will fit the bill here.  I think I may need more of a corporate
> type solution.  I've used Watchguard and cisco products in the past but
> I thought maybe I could save some $$ and go with a linux homebrew
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:44 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>
> Maybe you could provide more detail as to your application.
>
> In most situations I agree with Gino, MikroTik.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
>
> > Mikrotik
> >
> >
> > Gino A. Villarini
> > g...@aeronetpr.com
> > Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> > tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
> > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:30 AM
> > To: wireless@wispa.org
> > Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
> >
> > Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at
> either
> > implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which would
> be
> > the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
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Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[Kurt Fankhauser]

That’s why I quit buying lightning arrestors with "gas tubes" in them. Too
much worrying if the gas tube was blown or not, so I started buying
polyphaser's and never looked back

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com
 
 
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David Hulsebus
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:45 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

I've had the quarter waves that take multiple strikes go partially out 
in the past. Gas tubes have just blown.

Dave

RickG wrote:
> On that note. Can lightning protectors go partially bad or are they like a
> fuse and either work or not?
> -RickG
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
wrote:
>
>   
>> Even so, the performance should be the same both ways, not tx vs. rx.
>>
>> I still think he needs to look at the lightning arrestors.  Not sure how
>> they could make a difference but that's the one thing that's unknown to
me.
>> marlon
>>
>>  - Original Message -
>>  From: Travis Johnson
>>  To: WISPA General List
>>  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:05 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>
>>
>>  Hi,
>>
>>  I have to agree with Gino here... even at 7 degree downtilt, you are
>> cutting it very close. You may want to try 5 degrees on just one sector
and
>> see if that helps.
>>
>>  Travis
>>
>>
>>  Michael Baird wrote:
>> Gino, wisp-router.com, would the downtilt affect the AP RSSI level?
>>
>> Antenna Height
>>ft
>> Downtilt Angle
>>°
>> Vertical Beamwidth
>>°
>> Results
>> Inner -3dB Radius   0.1 Miles
>> Sweet spot  0.2 Miles
>> Outer -3dB Radius   5.24Miles
>>
>>
>> I told him 7.8, but I'm sure he didn't get dead on, just the best he
>> could with his inclinometer.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>  Where are you running the calcs? I use
>> http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/AntDowntiltCalc.as
>>
>> With your input, I get main lobe 0.2 miles / -3db @ 7
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Michael Baird
>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:51 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>
>> Gino,
>>
>> 145', 15 degree VB, 7.7/7.8 puts my -3d at ~5 miles. If my downtilt was
>> wrong, I would think it would impact the receive on my CPE's, much more
>> then on the tower AP's, maybe that's a poor assumption on my part
>> though.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>
>>I think your downtilt is too much, whats your area and tower height?
>> The beamwidth of the maxrad sector?
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On Behalf Of Michael Baird
>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:29 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>
>> My sector's are Maxrad adjustable sector's horizontally polarized,
>> adjusted to 120/13db, at 7.7 - 7.8 downtilt, trying to cover a 5 mile
>> radius.
>> Radios, are Ubiquity 400mw radio's, I've turned down to 23/200mw.
>> CPE's, are Ubiquity PS2, same radio at 400mw, Horizontal antenna at 18
>>
>>
>>dbi.
>>
>> RSSI at the CPE is great, RSSI at the AP is poor often different by
>> 16-20 db.
>>
>> I also mentioned the RFLinx Qwave lightning arrestors, this is the
>> first tower we've used them on.
>>
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>>
>>
>>
>>  I don't think that this would be an antenna location issue.
>>
>> What antennas did you use and where are they pointed?
>>
>> Also, what output are the radios?  If you use 600mw radios on the ap
>> side and 100 mw radios on the rx side it'll make a difference.
>>
>> Also, having LOW power at the tx is almost always a good idea,
>> especially when colocated like this.  I usually only run 15 to 17dB
>> at
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  the ap's.  Most of my sectors are 13dB.  Yeah, I have customers at
18
>>
>>
>>miles with multi meg RELIABLE service this way.  There are other
>> customers at much shorter ranges that don't get reliable service, but
>>
>>
>>that's caused by other issues :-).
>>
>>
>>  We run most of our cpe at pretty high power these days due to the
>> need
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  to blow through the overpowered competition or just over all noise
>>
>>
>>levels.
>>
>>
>>  Anyway, what gain are the antennas and where are they pointed?  How
>> much downtilt etc.
>>
>> How far are the customers from the tower?
>>
>> What polarity are the antennas?  All the same, or did you mix it up?
>>
>> What are the cpe radios?  What power, what antennas etc.
>>
>> If you had a 15 db transmit antenna and a 15 db trans

Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[Josh Luthman]

What is exactly is the gas tube?  What does Polyphaser do different?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:

> That’s why I quit buying lightning arrestors with "gas tubes" in them. Too
> much worrying if the gas tube was blown or not, so I started buying
> polyphaser's and never looked back
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
> WAVELINC
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> 419-562-6405
> www.wavelinc.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of David Hulsebus
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:45 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
> I've had the quarter waves that take multiple strikes go partially out
> in the past. Gas tubes have just blown.
>
> Dave
>
> RickG wrote:
> > On that note. Can lightning protectors go partially bad or are they like
> a
> > fuse and either work or not?
> > -RickG
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Even so, the performance should be the same both ways, not tx vs. rx.
> >>
> >> I still think he needs to look at the lightning arrestors.  Not sure how
> >> they could make a difference but that's the one thing that's unknown to
> me.
> >> marlon
> >>
> >>  - Original Message -
> >>  From: Travis Johnson
> >>  To: WISPA General List
> >>  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:05 PM
> >>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
> >>
> >>
> >>  Hi,
> >>
> >>  I have to agree with Gino here... even at 7 degree downtilt, you are
> >> cutting it very close. You may want to try 5 degrees on just one sector
> and
> >> see if that helps.
> >>
> >>  Travis
> >>
> >>
> >>  Michael Baird wrote:
> >> Gino, wisp-router.com, would the downtilt affect the AP RSSI level?
> >>
> >> Antenna Height
> >>ft
> >> Downtilt Angle
> >>°
> >> Vertical Beamwidth
> >>°
> >> Results
> >> Inner -3dB Radius   0.1 Miles
> >> Sweet spot  0.2 Miles
> >> Outer -3dB Radius   5.24Miles
> >>
> >>
> >> I told him 7.8, but I'm sure he didn't get dead on, just the best he
> >> could with his inclinometer.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Michael Baird
> >>  Where are you running the calcs? I use
> >> http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/AntDowntiltCalc.as
> >>
> >> With your input, I get main lobe 0.2 miles / -3db @ 7
> >>
> >> Gino A. Villarini
> >> g...@aeronetpr.com
> >> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> >> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Michael Baird
> >> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:51 PM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
> >>
> >> Gino,
> >>
> >> 145', 15 degree VB, 7.7/7.8 puts my -3d at ~5 miles. If my downtilt was
> >> wrong, I would think it would impact the receive on my CPE's, much more
> >> then on the tower AP's, maybe that's a poor assumption on my part
> >> though.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Michael Baird
> >>
> >>I think your downtilt is too much, whats your area and tower height?
> >> The beamwidth of the maxrad sector?
> >>
> >>
> >> Gino A. Villarini
> >> g...@aeronetpr.com
> >> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> >> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> >> On Behalf Of Michael Baird
> >> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:29 PM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
> >>
> >> My sector's are Maxrad adjustable sector's horizontally polarized,
> >> adjusted to 120/13db, at 7.7 - 7.8 downtilt, trying to cover a 5 mile
> >> radius.
> >> Radios, are Ubiquity 400mw radio's, I've turned down to 23/200mw.
> >> CPE's, are Ubiquity PS2, same radio at 400mw, Horizontal antenna at 18
> >>
> >>
> >>dbi.
> >>
> >> RSSI at the CPE is great, RSSI at the AP is poor often different by
> >> 16-20 db.
> >>
> >> I also mentioned the RFLinx Qwave lightning arrestors, this is the
> >> first tower we've used them on.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Michael Baird
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  I don't think that this would be an antenna location issue.
> >>
> >> What antennas did you use and where are they pointed?
> >>
> >> Also, what output are the radios?  If you use 600mw radios on the ap
> >> side and 100 mw radios on the rx side it'll make a difference.
> >>
> >> Also, having LOW power at the tx is almost always a good idea,
> >> especially when colocated like this.  I usually only run 15 to 17dB
> >> at
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  the ap's.  Most of my sectors are 13dB.  Yeah, I have customers at
> 18
> >>
> >>
> >>miles with multi meg RELIABLE service this way.  There are other
> >> cus

Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net]

Agreed.  MT is a high quality product, and looks nice in a rack.
 

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 

*/ LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training /*

The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



Josh Luthman wrote:
> Typically if you're protecting it versus someone who knows what they're
> doing it's the software that's open (pop/imap/smtp/web/etc) that becomes the
> vulnerability, not the network.
>
> If it were me, I would use MikroTik.  If there is a break I can troubleshoot
> it 100x faster and easier with MT then anything else.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Patrick D.. Nix, Jr <
> pni...@cnetworksolutions.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> Yes, I use mikrotik for end user protection and routing but I'm not sure
>> that will fit the bill here.  I think I may need more of a corporate
>> type solution.  I've used Watchguard and cisco products in the past but
>> I thought maybe I could save some $$ and go with a linux homebrew
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:44 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>>
>> Maybe you could provide more detail as to your application.
>>
>> In most situations I agree with Gino, MikroTik.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>> improbable, must be the truth."
>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Gino Villarini 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> Mikrotik
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>>   
>> On
>> 
>>> Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:30 AM
>>> To: wireless@wispa.org
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>>>
>>> Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at
>>>   
>> either
>> 
>>> implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which would
>>>   
>> be
>> 
>>> the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants

[WISPA] Mesh Network

[Jerry Richardson]

I believe there is still a market for municipal public wifi. I am
finding the barrier is the cost of the radios at $1k ea minimum for a
true mesh type dual radio system. Anything lower is cost is not true
Mesh. Yes, I could put something together using pieces and parts however
that's a support nightmare waiting to happen.
 
If you could have a Mesh Radio designed the way you want, what would it
look like?
 
My wish would look something like this:
- Dual radio
- Client access on 802.11b/g (optional 4.9 model for Public Safety)
- Mesh on 802.11a (open-mesh?) with DFS on 5.2/5.4
- Automatic scan for best channel
- Multi-SSID (up to 16 SSID/VLAN sets)
- BW allocation per SSID
- QoS per VLAN
- Encryption
- Client Isolation
- SNMP v1, v2
- Ping watchdog
- Push/Pull config
- NAT/DHCP to clients (running as router)
- 10/100 Ethernet
- Outdoor, ready to hang (not a roll-your-own)
- Browser Configurable
- POE
- Tech support from a manufacturer (not third party support/forums/mail
lists)
- FCC certified as a system
- Cost <350.00
 
Let me know what you would like to see as I am working with a
manufacturer to develop this or something very close to it.
 
 
 
Broadband for Business
Public and Private WiFi
 
Jerry Richardson
VP Operations
925-260-4119
_
 
ConsuWISP
RF Topographical Coverage Maps
Network Optimization and Planning
Network Design and Troubleshooting
Installer and Technician Training
 
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jerry-richardson/6/372/354
 
P Please consider the environment before printing this email
 
<>


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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Larry A Weidig]

www.untangle.com - Awesome product that runs on standard
hardware.

* Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net)
* Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/
* (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area
* (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:47 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

Yes, I use mikrotik for end user protection and routing but I'm not sure
that will fit the bill here.  I think I may need more of a corporate
type solution.  I've used Watchguard and cisco products in the past but
I thought maybe I could save some $$ and go with a linux homebrew

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:44 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

Maybe you could provide more detail as to your application.

In most situations I agree with Gino, MikroTik.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Gino Villarini 
wrote:

> Mikrotik
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
> Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:30 AM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>
> Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at
either
> implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which would
be
> the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>


>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>




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Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[David Hulsebus]

Same here, Polyphasers. No more gas tubes. I hate getting a call that I 
have to climb a water tank because a storm knocked out a gas cartridge.



Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
> That’s why I quit buying lightning arrestors with "gas tubes" in them. Too
> much worrying if the gas tube was blown or not, so I started buying
> polyphaser's and never looked back
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
> WAVELINC
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> 419-562-6405
> www.wavelinc.com
>  
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of David Hulsebus
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:45 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
> I've had the quarter waves that take multiple strikes go partially out 
> in the past. Gas tubes have just blown.
>
> Dave
>
> RickG wrote:
>   
>> On that note. Can lightning protectors go partially bad or are they like a
>> fuse and either work or not?
>> -RickG
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
>> 
> wrote:
>   
>>   
>> 
>>> Even so, the performance should be the same both ways, not tx vs. rx.
>>>
>>> I still think he needs to look at the lightning arrestors.  Not sure how
>>> they could make a difference but that's the one thing that's unknown to
>>>   
> me.
>   
>>> marlon
>>>
>>>  - Original Message -
>>>  From: Travis Johnson
>>>  To: WISPA General List
>>>  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:05 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>>
>>>
>>>  Hi,
>>>
>>>  I have to agree with Gino here... even at 7 degree downtilt, you are
>>> cutting it very close. You may want to try 5 degrees on just one sector
>>>   
> and
>   
>>> see if that helps.
>>>
>>>  Travis
>>>
>>>
>>>  Michael Baird wrote:
>>> Gino, wisp-router.com, would the downtilt affect the AP RSSI level?
>>>
>>> Antenna Height
>>>ft
>>> Downtilt Angle
>>>°
>>> Vertical Beamwidth
>>>°
>>> Results
>>> Inner -3dB Radius   0.1 Miles
>>> Sweet spot  0.2 Miles
>>> Outer -3dB Radius   5.24Miles
>>>
>>>
>>> I told him 7.8, but I'm sure he didn't get dead on, just the best he
>>> could with his inclinometer.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>  Where are you running the calcs? I use
>>> http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/AntDowntiltCalc.as
>>>
>>> With your input, I get main lobe 0.2 miles / -3db @ 7
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Michael Baird
>>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:51 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>>
>>> Gino,
>>>
>>> 145', 15 degree VB, 7.7/7.8 puts my -3d at ~5 miles. If my downtilt was
>>> wrong, I would think it would impact the receive on my CPE's, much more
>>> then on the tower AP's, maybe that's a poor assumption on my part
>>> though.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>
>>>I think your downtilt is too much, whats your area and tower height?
>>> The beamwidth of the maxrad sector?
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Michael Baird
>>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:29 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>>
>>> My sector's are Maxrad adjustable sector's horizontally polarized,
>>> adjusted to 120/13db, at 7.7 - 7.8 downtilt, trying to cover a 5 mile
>>> radius.
>>> Radios, are Ubiquity 400mw radio's, I've turned down to 23/200mw.
>>> CPE's, are Ubiquity PS2, same radio at 400mw, Horizontal antenna at 18
>>>
>>>
>>>dbi.
>>>
>>> RSSI at the CPE is great, RSSI at the AP is poor often different by
>>> 16-20 db.
>>>
>>> I also mentioned the RFLinx Qwave lightning arrestors, this is the
>>> first tower we've used them on.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  I don't think that this would be an antenna location issue.
>>>
>>> What antennas did you use and where are they pointed?
>>>
>>> Also, what output are the radios?  If you use 600mw radios on the ap
>>> side and 100 mw radios on the rx side it'll make a difference.
>>>
>>> Also, having LOW power at the tx is almost always a good idea,
>>> especially when colocated like this.  I usually only run 15 to 17dB
>>> at
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  the ap's.  Most of my sectors are 13dB.  Yeah, I have customers at
>>>   
> 18
>   
>>>miles with multi meg RELIABLE service this way.  There are other
>>> customers at much shorter ranges that don't get reliable service, but
>>>
>>>
>>>that's caused by other issues :-).
>>>
>>>
>>>  We run most of our cpe at pretty high power these days due to the
>>> need
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  to blow t

Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz Exclusion Zone

[Matt Liotta]

150km radius

-Matt

On Jun 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, 3-dB Networks wrote:

> Okay I'm banging my head against the wall a bit this morning J
>
>
>
> Subpart Z of the FCC Part 90 Rules - Wireless Broadband Serices in the
> 3650-3700 MHz Band - Section 90.1331 states:
>
>
>
> "(a)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(2) of this section, base  
> and
> fixed stations may not be located within 150 km of any grandfathered
> satellite earth station operating in the 3650-3700 MHz band. The  
> coordinates
> of these stations are available at http://www.fcc.gov/ib/sd/3650";
>
>
>
> My interpretation of that rule would mean that you need to draw a  
> circle of
> a radius of 150Km from each station, and this is your exclusion zone.
>
>
>
> Yet many maps on the web show this 150Km requirement as diameter.  
> not as a
> radius.
>
>
>
> Our office would be outside of the exclusion zone if it is a diameter
> requirement, yet inside the exclusion zone if it is a radius  
> requirement.
>
>
>
> Can anyone point me to something from the FCC that specifies what the
> requirement is?
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> 3-dB Networks
>
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[Israel Lopez-LISTS]

Whats your life expectancy on those polyphasers?  Their website states 
they are good for multiple strikes, but just wondering about the 
durability. etc,.

-Israel

David Hulsebus wrote:
> Same here, Polyphasers. No more gas tubes. I hate getting a call that I 
> have to climb a water tank because a storm knocked out a gas cartridge.
>
>
>
> Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>   
>> That’s why I quit buying lightning arrestors with "gas tubes" in them. Too
>> much worrying if the gas tube was blown or not, so I started buying
>> polyphaser's and never looked back
>>
>> Kurt Fankhauser
>> WAVELINC
>> P.O. Box 126
>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>> 419-562-6405
>> www.wavelinc.com
>>  
>>  
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of David Hulsebus
>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:45 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>
>> I've had the quarter waves that take multiple strikes go partially out 
>> in the past. Gas tubes have just blown.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> RickG wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>> On that note. Can lightning protectors go partially bad or are they like a
>>> fuse and either work or not?
>>> -RickG
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
>>> 
>>>   
>> wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
 Even so, the performance should be the same both ways, not tx vs. rx.

 I still think he needs to look at the lightning arrestors.  Not sure how
 they could make a difference but that's the one thing that's unknown to
   
 
>> me.
>>   
>> 
 marlon

  - Original Message -
  From: Travis Johnson
  To: WISPA General List
  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation


  Hi,

  I have to agree with Gino here... even at 7 degree downtilt, you are
 cutting it very close. You may want to try 5 degrees on just one sector
   
 
>> and
>>   
>> 
 see if that helps.

  Travis


  Michael Baird wrote:
 Gino, wisp-router.com, would the downtilt affect the AP RSSI level?

 Antenna Height
ft
 Downtilt Angle
°
 Vertical Beamwidth
°
 Results
 Inner -3dB Radius   0.1 Miles
 Sweet spot  0.2 Miles
 Outer -3dB Radius   5.24Miles


 I told him 7.8, but I'm sure he didn't get dead on, just the best he
 could with his inclinometer.

 Regards
 Michael Baird
  Where are you running the calcs? I use
 http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/AntDowntiltCalc.as

 With your input, I get main lobe 0.2 miles / -3db @ 7

 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Michael Baird
 Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:51 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

 Gino,

 145', 15 degree VB, 7.7/7.8 puts my -3d at ~5 miles. If my downtilt was
 wrong, I would think it would impact the receive on my CPE's, much more
 then on the tower AP's, maybe that's a poor assumption on my part
 though.

 Regards
 Michael Baird

I think your downtilt is too much, whats your area and tower height?
 The beamwidth of the maxrad sector?


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On Behalf Of Michael Baird
 Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:29 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

 My sector's are Maxrad adjustable sector's horizontally polarized,
 adjusted to 120/13db, at 7.7 - 7.8 downtilt, trying to cover a 5 mile
 radius.
 Radios, are Ubiquity 400mw radio's, I've turned down to 23/200mw.
 CPE's, are Ubiquity PS2, same radio at 400mw, Horizontal antenna at 18


dbi.

 RSSI at the CPE is great, RSSI at the AP is poor often different by
 16-20 db.

 I also mentioned the RFLinx Qwave lightning arrestors, this is the
 first tower we've used them on.

 Regards
 Michael Baird



  I don't think that this would be an antenna location issue.

 What antennas did you use and where are they pointed?

 Also, what output are the radios?  If you use 600mw radios on the ap
 side and 100 mw radios on the rx side it'll make a difference.

 Also, having LOW power at the tx is almost always a good idea,
 especially when colocated like this.  I usually only run 15 to 17dB
 a

Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Bret Clark]

PFSense on a high end computer probably fit the
bill...http://www.pfsense.com/


On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 10:45 -0500, Patrick D.. Nix, Jr wrote:

> Basically just wanting to protect our servers 8 servers total (3 email 2
> DNS 1 Web 2 offsite backup)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Alan Long
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:34 AM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
> 
> How may users behind it? How much throughput?
> 
> 
> Aerowire
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations
> alan.l...@aerowire.net
> 687 North Dean Road
> Auburn, AL 36830
> tel: 3342759998
> mobile: 336092
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:30 AM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
> 
> Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at either
> implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which would be
> the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.76/2183 - Release Date:
> 06/18/09
> 05:53:00
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[lakeland]

We use them commercially. I think we have replace. 2 of them over the past 18+ 
years
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Israel Lopez-LISTS 

Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:23:20 
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation


Whats your life expectancy on those polyphasers?  Their website states 
they are good for multiple strikes, but just wondering about the 
durability. etc,.

-Israel

David Hulsebus wrote:
> Same here, Polyphasers. No more gas tubes. I hate getting a call that I 
> have to climb a water tank because a storm knocked out a gas cartridge.
>
>
>
> Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>   
>> That’s why I quit buying lightning arrestors with "gas tubes" in them. Too
>> much worrying if the gas tube was blown or not, so I started buying
>> polyphaser's and never looked back
>>
>> Kurt Fankhauser
>> WAVELINC
>> P.O. Box 126
>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>> 419-562-6405
>> www.wavelinc.com
>>  
>>  
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of David Hulsebus
>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:45 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>
>> I've had the quarter waves that take multiple strikes go partially out 
>> in the past. Gas tubes have just blown.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> RickG wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>> On that note. Can lightning protectors go partially bad or are they like a
>>> fuse and either work or not?
>>> -RickG
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
>>> 
>>>   
>> wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
 Even so, the performance should be the same both ways, not tx vs. rx.

 I still think he needs to look at the lightning arrestors.  Not sure how
 they could make a difference but that's the one thing that's unknown to
   
 
>> me.
>>   
>> 
 marlon

  - Original Message -
  From: Travis Johnson
  To: WISPA General List
  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation


  Hi,

  I have to agree with Gino here... even at 7 degree downtilt, you are
 cutting it very close. You may want to try 5 degrees on just one sector
   
 
>> and
>>   
>> 
 see if that helps.

  Travis


  Michael Baird wrote:
 Gino, wisp-router.com, would the downtilt affect the AP RSSI level?

 Antenna Height
ft
 Downtilt Angle
°
 Vertical Beamwidth
°
 Results
 Inner -3dB Radius   0.1 Miles
 Sweet spot  0.2 Miles
 Outer -3dB Radius   5.24Miles


 I told him 7.8, but I'm sure he didn't get dead on, just the best he
 could with his inclinometer.

 Regards
 Michael Baird
  Where are you running the calcs? I use
 http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/AntDowntiltCalc.as

 With your input, I get main lobe 0.2 miles / -3db @ 7

 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Michael Baird
 Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:51 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

 Gino,

 145', 15 degree VB, 7.7/7.8 puts my -3d at ~5 miles. If my downtilt was
 wrong, I would think it would impact the receive on my CPE's, much more
 then on the tower AP's, maybe that's a poor assumption on my part
 though.

 Regards
 Michael Baird

I think your downtilt is too much, whats your area and tower height?
 The beamwidth of the maxrad sector?


 Gino A. Villarini
 g...@aeronetpr.com
 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
 tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On Behalf Of Michael Baird
 Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:29 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

 My sector's are Maxrad adjustable sector's horizontally polarized,
 adjusted to 120/13db, at 7.7 - 7.8 downtilt, trying to cover a 5 mile
 radius.
 Radios, are Ubiquity 400mw radio's, I've turned down to 23/200mw.
 CPE's, are Ubiquity PS2, same radio at 400mw, Horizontal antenna at 18


dbi.

 RSSI at the CPE is great, RSSI at the AP is poor often different by
 16-20 db.

 I also mentioned the RFLinx Qwave lightning arrestors, this is the
 first tower we've used them on.

 Regards
 Michael Baird



  I don't think that this would be an antenna location issue.

 What antennas did you use and where are they pointed?

 Also, what 

Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network

[Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net]

Can do everything on this, but the cost.  Looks like around $515 in 
single unit pricing.  Shoot me a call if you have questions.

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 

*/ LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training /*

The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



Jerry Richardson wrote:
> I believe there is still a market for municipal public wifi. I am 
> finding the barrier is the cost of the radios at $1k ea minimum for a 
> true mesh type dual radio system. Anything lower is cost is not true 
> Mesh. Yes, I could put something together using pieces and parts 
> however that's a support nightmare waiting to happen.
>  
> If you could have a Mesh Radio designed the way you want, what would 
> it look like?
>  
> My wish would look something like this:
> - Dual radio
> - Client access on 802.11b/g (optional 4.9 model for Public Safety)
> - Mesh on 802.11a (open-mesh?) with DFS on 5.2/5.4
> - Automatic scan for best channel
> - Multi-SSID (up to 16 SSID/VLAN sets)
> - BW allocation per SSID
> - QoS per VLAN
> - Encryption
> - Client Isolation
> - SNMP v1, v2
> - Ping watchdog
> - Push/Pull config
> - NAT/DHCP to clients (running as router)
> - 10/100 Ethernet
> - Outdoor, ready to hang (not a roll-your-own)
> - Browser Configurable
> - POE
> - Tech support from a manufacturer (not third party 
> support/forums/mail lists)
> - FCC certified as a system
> - Cost <350.00
>  
> Let me know what you would like to see as I am working with a 
> manufacturer to develop this or something very close to it.
>  
>  
> airCloud Communications
> /Broadband for Business/
> /Public and Private WiFi/
> // 
> Jerry Richardson
> VP Operations
> 925-260-4119
> _
>  
> *ConsuWISP*
> /RF Topographical Coverage Maps/
> /Network Optimization and Planning/
> /Network Design and Troubleshooting/
> /Installer and Technician Training/
> // 
> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jerry-richardson/6/372/354
>  
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email
>  



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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Patrick D.. Nix, Jr]

Maybe trying another approach... has anyone successfully implemented a
firewall using Imagestream rebel with powercode?  I have written some
iptables rule and placed them in the post config script I can see where
it is applying them but doesn't seem to be blocking properly.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Bret Clark
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:32 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

PFSense on a high end computer probably fit the
bill...http://www.pfsense.com/


On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 10:45 -0500, Patrick D.. Nix, Jr wrote:

> Basically just wanting to protect our servers 8 servers total (3 email
2
> DNS 1 Web 2 offsite backup)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
> Behalf Of Alan Long
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:34 AM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
> 
> How may users behind it? How much throughput?
> 
> 
> Aerowire
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations
> alan.l...@aerowire.net
> 687 North Dean Road
> Auburn, AL 36830
> tel: 3342759998
> mobile: 336092
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
> Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:30 AM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
> 
> Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at
either
> implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which would
be
> the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
>

> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

> 
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.76/2183 - Release Date:
> 06/18/09
> 05:53:00
> 
> 
> 
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> 
>


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> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


>  
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> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network

[3-dB Networks]

Your missing management... and that is going to be a major player.

Managing 100 nodes isn't something you want to do one by one.  You're going
to have to have a strong NMS server behind it.

Also, what about self-healing the mesh?  Heck, without a strong NMS platform
how is the mesh created?

I'm sure I could dig into more :-)

I really question you can get a $350 per node system when all of the ones
out there that are true muni type are much more expensive - MotoMesh Duo is
expensive for a reason I'd think besides just being Moto.

Also... you need to define how many nodes can be in the mesh

I think getting DFS compliance on the 5GHz backhaul might be expensive...

My 2 cents.

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net
>Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:47 AM
>To: Motorola Canopy User Group
>Cc: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network
>
>Can do everything on this, but the cost.  Looks like around $515 in
>single unit pricing.  Shoot me a call if you have questions.
>
>* ---
>Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
>Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>WISPA Vendor Member*
>*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>
>*/ LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
>/*
>
>The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the
>Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended
>only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.
>Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of
>any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities
>other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
>received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
>material from any computer.
>
>
>
>
>
>Jerry Richardson wrote:
>> I believe there is still a market for municipal public wifi. I am
>> finding the barrier is the cost of the radios at $1k ea minimum for a
>> true mesh type dual radio system. Anything lower is cost is not true
>> Mesh. Yes, I could put something together using pieces and parts
>> however that's a support nightmare waiting to happen.
>>
>> If you could have a Mesh Radio designed the way you want, what would
>> it look like?
>>
>> My wish would look something like this:
>> - Dual radio
>> - Client access on 802.11b/g (optional 4.9 model for Public Safety)
>> - Mesh on 802.11a (open-mesh?) with DFS on 5.2/5.4
>> - Automatic scan for best channel
>> - Multi-SSID (up to 16 SSID/VLAN sets)
>> - BW allocation per SSID
>> - QoS per VLAN
>> - Encryption
>> - Client Isolation
>> - SNMP v1, v2
>> - Ping watchdog
>> - Push/Pull config
>> - NAT/DHCP to clients (running as router)
>> - 10/100 Ethernet
>> - Outdoor, ready to hang (not a roll-your-own)
>> - Browser Configurable
>> - POE
>> - Tech support from a manufacturer (not third party
>> support/forums/mail lists)
>> - FCC certified as a system
>> - Cost <350.00
>>
>> Let me know what you would like to see as I am working with a
>> manufacturer to develop this or something very close to it.
>>
>>
>> airCloud Communications
>> /Broadband for Business/
>> /Public and Private WiFi/
>> //
>> Jerry Richardson
>> VP Operations
>> 925-260-4119
>> _
>>
>> *ConsuWISP*
>> /RF Topographical Coverage Maps/
>> /Network Optimization and Planning/
>> /Network Design and Troubleshooting/
>> /Installer and Technician Training/
>> //
>> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jerry-richardson/6/372/354
>>
>> P Please consider the environment before printing this email
>>
>
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Josh Luthman]

For this application ImageStream seems like a waste of money and a LOT of
effort, IMO.

IS and MikroTik both use iptables so the difference is in the interface.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Patrick D.. Nix, Jr <
pni...@cnetworksolutions.com> wrote:

> Maybe trying another approach... has anyone successfully implemented a
> firewall using Imagestream rebel with powercode?  I have written some
> iptables rule and placed them in the post config script I can see where
> it is applying them but doesn't seem to be blocking properly.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Bret Clark
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:32 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>
> PFSense on a high end computer probably fit the
> bill...http://www.pfsense.com/
>
>
> On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 10:45 -0500, Patrick D.. Nix, Jr wrote:
>
> > Basically just wanting to protect our servers 8 servers total (3 email
> 2
> > DNS 1 Web 2 offsite backup)
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Alan Long
> > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:34 AM
> > To: 'WISPA General List'
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
> >
> > How may users behind it? How much throughput?
> >
> > 
> > Aerowire
> > Alan Long
> > Director of Network Operations
> > alan.l...@aerowire.net
> > 687 North Dean Road
> > Auburn, AL 36830
> > tel: 3342759998
> > mobile: 336092
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
> > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:30 AM
> > To: wireless@wispa.org
> > Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
> >
> > Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at
> either
> > implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which would
> be
> > the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > 
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> > 
> > 
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> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.76/2183 - Release Date:
> > 06/18/09
> > 05:53:00
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> >
> >
> >
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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Jeff Broadwick]

We can help you with that Patrick.

Jeff
ImageStream 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 12:51 PM
To: bcl...@spectraaccess.com; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

Maybe trying another approach... has anyone successfully implemented a
firewall using Imagestream rebel with powercode?  I have written some
iptables rule and placed them in the post config script I can see where it
is applying them but doesn't seem to be blocking properly.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Bret Clark
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:32 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

PFSense on a high end computer probably fit the
bill...http://www.pfsense.com/


On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 10:45 -0500, Patrick D.. Nix, Jr wrote:

> Basically just wanting to protect our servers 8 servers total (3 email
2
> DNS 1 Web 2 offsite backup)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
> Behalf Of Alan Long
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:34 AM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
> 
> How may users behind it? How much throughput?
> 
> 
> Aerowire
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations
> alan.l...@aerowire.net
> 687 North Dean Road
> Auburn, AL 36830
> tel: 3342759998
> mobile: 336092
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
> Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:30 AM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
> 
> Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at
either
> implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which would
be
> the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
>

> 
> 
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> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.76/2183 - Release Date:
> 06/18/09
> 05:53:00
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz Exclusion Zone

[Charles Wyble]

BTW the calculations in the R&O appendix have errors. I have a corrected 
version provided to me by the FCC OET. If there is interest I can post 
it online and send the link.

Matt Liotta wrote:
> 150km radius
> 
> -Matt
> 
> On Jun 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, 3-dB Networks wrote:
> 
>> Okay I'm banging my head against the wall a bit this morning J
>>
>>
>>
>> Subpart Z of the FCC Part 90 Rules - Wireless Broadband Serices in the
>> 3650-3700 MHz Band - Section 90.1331 states:
>>
>>
>>
>> "(a)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(2) of this section, base  
>> and
>> fixed stations may not be located within 150 km of any grandfathered
>> satellite earth station operating in the 3650-3700 MHz band. The  
>> coordinates
>> of these stations are available at http://www.fcc.gov/ib/sd/3650";
>>
>>
>>
>> My interpretation of that rule would mean that you need to draw a  
>> circle of
>> a radius of 150Km from each station, and this is your exclusion zone.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yet many maps on the web show this 150Km requirement as diameter.  
>> not as a
>> radius.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our office would be outside of the exclusion zone if it is a diameter
>> requirement, yet inside the exclusion zone if it is a radius  
>> requirement.
>>
>>
>>
>> Can anyone point me to something from the FCC that specifies what the
>> requirement is?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>>
>> Daniel White
>>
>> 3-dB Networks
>>
>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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> 
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Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz Exclusion Zone

[3-dB Networks]

Thanks for the help guys.  Charles I would be interested in it... offlist or
onlist is fine for me

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Charles Wyble
>Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:28 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz Exclusion Zone
>
>BTW the calculations in the R&O appendix have errors. I have a corrected
>version provided to me by the FCC OET. If there is interest I can post
>it online and send the link.
>
>Matt Liotta wrote:
>> 150km radius
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> On Jun 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, 3-dB Networks wrote:
>>
>>> Okay I'm banging my head against the wall a bit this morning J
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Subpart Z of the FCC Part 90 Rules - Wireless Broadband Serices in
>the
>>> 3650-3700 MHz Band - Section 90.1331 states:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "(a)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(2) of this section, base
>>> and
>>> fixed stations may not be located within 150 km of any grandfathered
>>> satellite earth station operating in the 3650-3700 MHz band. The
>>> coordinates
>>> of these stations are available at http://www.fcc.gov/ib/sd/3650";
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My interpretation of that rule would mean that you need to draw a
>>> circle of
>>> a radius of 150Km from each station, and this is your exclusion zone.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yet many maps on the web show this 150Km requirement as diameter.
>>> not as a
>>> radius.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Our office would be outside of the exclusion zone if it is a diameter
>>> requirement, yet inside the exclusion zone if it is a radius
>>> requirement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Can anyone point me to something from the FCC that specifies what the
>>> requirement is?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel White
>>>
>>> 3-dB Networks
>>>
>>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>---
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>--
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Re: [WISPA] Mesh Network

[Charles Wyble]

Jerry Richardson wrote:
> I believe there is still a market for municipal public wifi. I am
> finding the barrier is the cost of the radios at $1k ea minimum for a
> true mesh type dual radio system. Anything lower is cost is not true
> Mesh. Yes, I could put something together using pieces and parts however
> that's a support nightmare waiting to happen.
>  
> If you could have a Mesh Radio designed the way you want, what would it
> look like?
>  
> My wish would look something like this:
> - Dual radio
> - Client access on 802.11b/g (optional 4.9 model for Public Safety)
> - Mesh on 802.11a (open-mesh?) with DFS on 5.2/5.4

Yep. For me it would be 802.11n for backbone/mesh and client access on 
802.11b/g

> - Automatic scan for best channel
> - Multi-SSID (up to 16 SSID/VLAN sets)
> - BW allocation per SSID
> - QoS per VLAN
> - Encryption
> - Client Isolation
> - SNMP v1, v2

DD-WRT or OpenWRT can give you this.

> - Ping watchdog

Not sure what this is? A script that runs on the router and reboots if 
it can't ping?

> - Push/Pull config

The PTP guys did something for this with openwrt 
http://www.stephouse.net/files/openwrtprovisioner/openwrtprovisioner.v0.1.tgz 



> - NAT/DHCP to clients (running as router)
> - 10/100 Ethernet
> - Outdoor, ready to hang (not a roll-your-own)
> - Browser Configurable
> - POE
> - Tech support from a manufacturer (not third party support/forums/mail
> lists)


So it would seem UBNT gear with an OpenWRT load would do most of what 
you want?




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[WISPA] Mesh - on the cheap

[Charles Wyble]

Thought I would share this with the list


http://freifunk-texas.net/Building_a_Rural_Wireless_Mesh_Network_-_A_DIY_Guide_v0.7_65.pdf
 


I'm planning to put a 5 node mesh together this weekend and see how well 
it works.

Then I'll play with TDMA firmware from 
http://tier.cs.berkeley.edu/wiki/Wireless

I see a lot of high priced gear, and keep wondering if it's really 
necessary. I realize the CapEx vs OpEx trade off. but it seems a bit 
extreme.






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Re: [WISPA] 3.65GHz Exclusion Zone

[Matt Liotta]

The appendix calculations are only an example. Earth stations are not  
required to follow them for determining interference. IMHO, keyhole  
calculations coupled with standard interference calculations a la part  
101 PCN is a superior methodology.

-Matt

On Jun 18, 2009, at 1:28 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:

> BTW the calculations in the R&O appendix have errors. I have a  
> corrected
> version provided to me by the FCC OET. If there is interest I can post
> it online and send the link.
>
> Matt Liotta wrote:
>> 150km radius
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> On Jun 18, 2009, at 11:01 AM, 3-dB Networks wrote:
>>
>>> Okay I'm banging my head against the wall a bit this morning J
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Subpart Z of the FCC Part 90 Rules - Wireless Broadband Serices in  
>>> the
>>> 3650-3700 MHz Band - Section 90.1331 states:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "(a)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(2) of this section, base
>>> and
>>> fixed stations may not be located within 150 km of any grandfathered
>>> satellite earth station operating in the 3650-3700 MHz band. The
>>> coordinates
>>> of these stations are available at http://www.fcc.gov/ib/sd/3650";
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My interpretation of that rule would mean that you need to draw a
>>> circle of
>>> a radius of 150Km from each station, and this is your exclusion  
>>> zone.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yet many maps on the web show this 150Km requirement as diameter.
>>> not as a
>>> radius.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Our office would be outside of the exclusion zone if it is a  
>>> diameter
>>> requirement, yet inside the exclusion zone if it is a radius
>>> requirement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Can anyone point me to something from the FCC that specifies what  
>>> the
>>> requirement is?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel White
>>>
>>> 3-dB Networks
>>>
>>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[Michael Baird]

We sent an installer out to repair a faulty AP. I told him to use the 
same pigtail/lightning arrestor/radio combo to the existing antenna. He 
"forgot" the pigtail, but the lightning arrestor and radio connection 
don't seem to be the problem at least.

The antenna he attached to was a Tranzeo 120/16db sector at 1.4 degree's 
tilt (had him measure), we are deploying on the trouble tower Maxrad MB 
13db WISP24017MBH at 7.8 degree downtilt. Maybe the antenna is the 
problem? I realize (surprisingly) they are different DB, but I would 
expect my signal problem to to show up in RSL/TSL, not just in RSL at 
the AP.

Regards
Michael Baird
> We use them commercially. I think we have replace. 2 of them over the past 
> 18+ years
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Israel Lopez-LISTS 
>
> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:23:20 
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
>
> Whats your life expectancy on those polyphasers?  Their website states 
> they are good for multiple strikes, but just wondering about the 
> durability. etc,.
>
> -Israel
>
> David Hulsebus wrote:
>   
>> Same here, Polyphasers. No more gas tubes. I hate getting a call that I 
>> have to climb a water tank because a storm knocked out a gas cartridge.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>> That’s why I quit buying lightning arrestors with "gas tubes" in them. Too
>>> much worrying if the gas tube was blown or not, so I started buying
>>> polyphaser's and never looked back
>>>
>>> Kurt Fankhauser
>>> WAVELINC
>>> P.O. Box 126
>>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>>> 419-562-6405
>>> www.wavelinc.com
>>>  
>>>  
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of David Hulsebus
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:45 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>>
>>> I've had the quarter waves that take multiple strikes go partially out 
>>> in the past. Gas tubes have just blown.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> RickG wrote:
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
 On that note. Can lightning protectors go partially bad or are they like a
 fuse and either work or not?
 -RickG

 On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
 
   
 
>>> wrote:
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
   
 
   
 
> Even so, the performance should be the same both ways, not tx vs. rx.
>
> I still think he needs to look at the lightning arrestors.  Not sure how
> they could make a difference but that's the one thing that's unknown to
>   
> 
>   
>>> me.
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
> marlon
>
>  - Original Message -
>  From: Travis Johnson
>  To: WISPA General List
>  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:05 PM
>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
>
>  Hi,
>
>  I have to agree with Gino here... even at 7 degree downtilt, you are
> cutting it very close. You may want to try 5 degrees on just one sector
>   
> 
>   
>>> and
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
> see if that helps.
>
>  Travis
>
>
>  Michael Baird wrote:
> Gino, wisp-router.com, would the downtilt affect the AP RSSI level?
>
> Antenna Height
>ft
> Downtilt Angle
>°
> Vertical Beamwidth
>°
> Results
> Inner -3dB Radius   0.1 Miles
> Sweet spot  0.2 Miles
> Outer -3dB Radius   5.24Miles
>
>
> I told him 7.8, but I'm sure he didn't get dead on, just the best he
> could with his inclinometer.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>  Where are you running the calcs? I use
> http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/AntDowntiltCalc.as
>
> With your input, I get main lobe 0.2 miles / -3db @ 7
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Michael Baird
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:51 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
> Gino,
>
> 145', 15 degree VB, 7.7/7.8 puts my -3d at ~5 miles. If my downtilt was
> wrong, I would think it would impact the receive on my CPE's, much more
> then on the tower AP's, maybe that's a poor assumption on my part
> though.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>I think your downtilt is too much, whats your area and tower height?
> The beamwidth of the maxrad sector?
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Network

[Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net]

What I quoted :)

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 

*/ LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training /*

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Charles Wyble wrote:
> Jerry Richardson wrote:
>   
>> I believe there is still a market for municipal public wifi. I am
>> finding the barrier is the cost of the radios at $1k ea minimum for a
>> true mesh type dual radio system. Anything lower is cost is not true
>> Mesh. Yes, I could put something together using pieces and parts however
>> that's a support nightmare waiting to happen.
>>  
>> If you could have a Mesh Radio designed the way you want, what would it
>> look like?
>>  
>> My wish would look something like this:
>> - Dual radio
>> - Client access on 802.11b/g (optional 4.9 model for Public Safety)
>> - Mesh on 802.11a (open-mesh?) with DFS on 5.2/5.4
>> 
>
> Yep. For me it would be 802.11n for backbone/mesh and client access on 
> 802.11b/g
>
>   
>> - Automatic scan for best channel
>> - Multi-SSID (up to 16 SSID/VLAN sets)
>> - BW allocation per SSID
>> - QoS per VLAN
>> - Encryption
>> - Client Isolation
>> - SNMP v1, v2
>> 
>
> DD-WRT or OpenWRT can give you this.
>
>   
>> - Ping watchdog
>> 
>
> Not sure what this is? A script that runs on the router and reboots if 
> it can't ping?
>
>   
>> - Push/Pull config
>> 
>
> The PTP guys did something for this with openwrt 
> http://www.stephouse.net/files/openwrtprovisioner/openwrtprovisioner.v0.1.tgz 
>
>
>
>   
>> - NAT/DHCP to clients (running as router)
>> - 10/100 Ethernet
>> - Outdoor, ready to hang (not a roll-your-own)
>> - Browser Configurable
>> - POE
>> - Tech support from a manufacturer (not third party support/forums/mail
>> lists)
>> 
>
>
> So it would seem UBNT gear with an OpenWRT load would do most of what 
> you want?
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Frank Crawford]

http://www.vyatta.com/

Patrick D.. Nix, Jr wrote:
> Maybe trying another approach... has anyone successfully implemented a
> firewall using Imagestream rebel with powercode?  I have written some
> iptables rule and placed them in the post config script I can see where
> it is applying them but doesn't seem to be blocking properly.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Bret Clark
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:32 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>
> PFSense on a high end computer probably fit the
> bill...http://www.pfsense.com/
>
>
> On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 10:45 -0500, Patrick D.. Nix, Jr wrote:
>
>   
>> Basically just wanting to protect our servers 8 servers total (3 email
>> 
> 2
>   
>> DNS 1 Web 2 offsite backup)
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> 
> On
>   
>> Behalf Of Alan Long
>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:34 AM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>>
>> How may users behind it? How much throughput?
>>
>> 
>> Aerowire
>> Alan Long
>> Director of Network Operations
>> alan.l...@aerowire.net
>> 687 North Dean Road
>> Auburn, AL 36830
>> tel: 3342759998
>> mobile: 336092
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> 
> On
>   
>> Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:30 AM
>> To: wireless@wispa.org
>> Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>>
>> Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at
>> 
> either
>   
>> implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which would
>> 
> be
>   
>> the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> 
>   
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
> 
>   
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>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.76/2183 - Release Date:
>> 06/18/09
>> 05:53:00
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[chris cooper]

I concur with Kurt.  That meter is invaluable.  They also make a quad
band meter that covers 900 Mhz as well.

Chris Cooper
Intelliwave

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:38 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

I have been using this meter,
http://www.streakwave.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=PM%2D2458&eq=&Tp=

It checks forward power, reflected power, and will give you the SWR
reading.
Its been a lifesaver.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com
 
 





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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[jree...@18-30chat.net]

As much as I love Mikrotik they do not have Snort. It is a very valuable tool.
That said, you can do like i do and run Snort on a dedicated ethernet port on
one of your existing servers and mirror everything to it. That combined with
MT's firewall abilities is great. I have been working on dynamic firewall rules
in MT from snort and some log monitors but have not done much. The MT API is
wonderful, if I can just wrap my brain around it.

Jeromie


Patrick D.. Nix, Jr wrote:
> Basically just wanting to protect our servers 8 servers total (3 email 2
> DNS 1 Web 2 offsite backup)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Alan Long
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:34 AM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
> 
> How may users behind it? How much throughput?
> 
> 
> Aerowire
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations
> alan.l...@aerowire.net
> 687 North Dean Road
> Auburn, AL 36830
> tel: 3342759998
> mobile: 336092
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:30 AM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
> 
> Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at either
> implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which would be
> the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.76/2183 - Release Date:
> 06/18/09
> 05:53:00
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Charles Wyble]

Bah! That's just stupid. They really ought to include snort.

How can you call yourself a network equipment vendor, if you sell a 
border product without an IDS?

Linux is really quite great for these applications. IPTABLES, decent 
routing protocol implementations and an awesome IDS. I'm appalled it 
doesn't include snort. :(



jree...@18-30chat.net wrote:
> As much as I love Mikrotik they do not have Snort. It is a very valuable tool.
> That said, you can do like i do and run Snort on a dedicated ethernet port on
> one of your existing servers and mirror everything to it. That combined with
> MT's firewall abilities is great. I have been working on dynamic firewall 
> rules
> in MT from snort and some log monitors but have not done much. The MT API is
> wonderful, if I can just wrap my brain around it.
> 
> Jeromie
> 
> 
> Patrick D.. Nix, Jr wrote:
>> Basically just wanting to protect our servers 8 servers total (3 email 2
>> DNS 1 Web 2 offsite backup)
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Alan Long
>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:34 AM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>>
>> How may users behind it? How much throughput?
>>
>> 
>> Aerowire
>> Alan Long
>> Director of Network Operations
>> alan.l...@aerowire.net
>> 687 North Dean Road
>> Auburn, AL 36830
>> tel: 3342759998
>> mobile: 336092
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:30 AM
>> To: wireless@wispa.org
>> Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>>
>> Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at either
>> implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which would be
>> the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.76/2183 - Release Date:
>> 06/18/09
>> 05:53:00
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Jeff Broadwick]

Hi Charles,

It's not a simple add-on.  We've added it as an option on ImageStream
routers, but there have been a lot of headaches getting there.

Regards,

Jeff
ImageStream 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Charles Wyble
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 4:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

Bah! That's just stupid. They really ought to include snort.

How can you call yourself a network equipment vendor, if you sell a border
product without an IDS?

Linux is really quite great for these applications. IPTABLES, decent routing
protocol implementations and an awesome IDS. I'm appalled it doesn't include
snort. :(



jree...@18-30chat.net wrote:
> As much as I love Mikrotik they do not have Snort. It is a very valuable
tool.
> That said, you can do like i do and run Snort on a dedicated ethernet 
> port on one of your existing servers and mirror everything to it. That 
> combined with MT's firewall abilities is great. I have been working on 
> dynamic firewall rules in MT from snort and some log monitors but have 
> not done much. The MT API is wonderful, if I can just wrap my brain around
it.
> 
> Jeromie
> 
> 
> Patrick D.. Nix, Jr wrote:
>> Basically just wanting to protect our servers 8 servers total (3 
>> email 2 DNS 1 Web 2 offsite backup)
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
>> On Behalf Of Alan Long
>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:34 AM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>>
>> How may users behind it? How much throughput?
>>
>> 
>> Aerowire
>> Alan Long
>> Director of Network Operations
>> alan.l...@aerowire.net
>> 687 North Dean Road
>> Auburn, AL 36830
>> tel: 3342759998
>> mobile: 336092
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
>> On Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:30 AM
>> To: wireless@wispa.org
>> Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>>
>> Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at 
>> either implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which 
>> would be the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> ---
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> -
>> ---
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.76/2183 - Release Date:
>> 06/18/09
>> 05:53:00
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> ---
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Subscr

Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Charles Wyble]

Jeff,

H. Interesting. I would love to know more about the challenges you 
faced adding it on.

Though this is probably more of a software engineering/architecture 
discussion that may or may not be appropriate for the WISPA list. Ah who 
cares, I'm bored. :)



Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> Hi Charles,
> 
> It's not a simple add-on.  We've added it as an option on ImageStream
> routers, but there have been a lot of headaches getting there.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jeff
> ImageStream 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Charles Wyble
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 4:12 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
> 
> Bah! That's just stupid. They really ought to include snort.
> 
> How can you call yourself a network equipment vendor, if you sell a border
> product without an IDS?
> 
> Linux is really quite great for these applications. IPTABLES, decent routing
> protocol implementations and an awesome IDS. I'm appalled it doesn't include
> snort. :(
> 
> 
> 
> jree...@18-30chat.net wrote:
>> As much as I love Mikrotik they do not have Snort. It is a very valuable
> tool.
>> That said, you can do like i do and run Snort on a dedicated ethernet 
>> port on one of your existing servers and mirror everything to it. That 
>> combined with MT's firewall abilities is great. I have been working on 
>> dynamic firewall rules in MT from snort and some log monitors but have 
>> not done much. The MT API is wonderful, if I can just wrap my brain around
> it.
>> Jeromie
>>
>>
>> Patrick D.. Nix, Jr wrote:
>>> Basically just wanting to protect our servers 8 servers total (3 
>>> email 2 DNS 1 Web 2 offsite backup)
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
>>> On Behalf Of Alan Long
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:34 AM
>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>>>
>>> How may users behind it? How much throughput?
>>>
>>> 
>>> Aerowire
>>> Alan Long
>>> Director of Network Operations
>>> alan.l...@aerowire.net
>>> 687 North Dean Road
>>> Auburn, AL 36830
>>> tel: 3342759998
>>> mobile: 336092
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
>>> On Behalf Of Patrick D.. Nix, Jr
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:30 AM
>>> To: wireless@wispa.org
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
>>>
>>> Any suggestions on a good linux firewall distro.  I'm looking at 
>>> either implementing this or going with an older Cisco PIX 525.  Which 
>>> would be the best way to go?  Something with a nice GUI would be good
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> ---
>>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> -
>>> ---
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.76/2183 - Release Date:
>>> 06/18/09
>>> 05:53:00
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> ---
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> -
>>> ---
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[WISPA] OT: Mars Antenna Disti?

[Gino Villarini]

Whos disti for Mars in the US?
 

Gino A. Villarini 
g...@aeronetpr.com 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 

 



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[WISPA] DTV Arrives but Transition Continues

[Jack Unger]

Anyone who even suspects that they might want to set up a TV White
Space WAN someday should start following the news about digital
television (DTV). You can probably benefit from some of the information
contained in the following article. 

http://tinyurl.com/mqhcys


jack

-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
Twitter - "wireless_jack"
 









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Re: [WISPA] DTV Arrives but Transition Continues

[Charles Wyble]

WISPS unite. It's time to start sending packets over them airwaves! :)

Why they don't abolish broadcast tv/radio and move to a pure IP based 
solution I don't know. It would stimulate the economy. IPTV could just 
as easy be IP radio. :)

Jack Unger wrote:
> Anyone who even suspects that they might want to set up a TV White Space 
> WAN someday should start following the news about digital television 
> (DTV). You can probably benefit from some of the information contained 
> in the following article.
> 
> *http://tinyurl.com/mqhcys
> 
> 
> *jack*
> *
> 
> -- 
> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
> Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
> www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
> Twitter - "wireless_jack"
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Mesh Network

[os10rules]

How about ability to be a hotspot?

On Jun 18, 2009, at 12:05 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:

> I believe there is still a market for municipal public wifi. I am
> finding the barrier is the cost of the radios at $1k ea minimum for a
> true mesh type dual radio system. Anything lower is cost is not true
> Mesh. Yes, I could put something together using pieces and parts  
> however
> that's a support nightmare waiting to happen.
>
> If you could have a Mesh Radio designed the way you want, what would  
> it
> look like?
>
> My wish would look something like this:
> - Dual radio
> - Client access on 802.11b/g (optional 4.9 model for Public Safety)
> - Mesh on 802.11a (open-mesh?) with DFS on 5.2/5.4
> - Automatic scan for best channel
> - Multi-SSID (up to 16 SSID/VLAN sets)
> - BW allocation per SSID
> - QoS per VLAN
> - Encryption
> - Client Isolation
> - SNMP v1, v2
> - Ping watchdog
> - Push/Pull config
> - NAT/DHCP to clients (running as router)
> - 10/100 Ethernet
> - Outdoor, ready to hang (not a roll-your-own)
> - Browser Configurable
> - POE
> - Tech support from a manufacturer (not third party support/forums/ 
> mail
> lists)
> - FCC certified as a system
> - Cost <350.00
>
> Let me know what you would like to see as I am working with a
> manufacturer to develop this or something very close to it.
>
>
>
> Broadband for Business
> Public and Private WiFi
>
> Jerry Richardson
> VP Operations
> 925-260-4119
> _
>
> ConsuWISP
> RF Topographical Coverage Maps
> Network Optimization and Planning
> Network Design and Troubleshooting
> Installer and Technician Training
>
> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jerry-richardson/6/372/354
>
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[David Hulsebus]

I've had the same arrestors in place for multiple years. I have an 
employee that lives near one of our towers and says it gets hit almost 
every big storm, multiple times a year and they keep on ticking.  I can 
tell when one needs to be replaced by the signal levels of my clients.

We have lost a few because of storms and can tell when one needs to be 
replaced by the signal level of the client. I've lost more on customer 
premise than our towers. Funny that most of theirs are at 40-60 ft above 
grade and I'm 150 - 400 ft.  A majority of our arrestors are at ground 
level with coax running up a tower. On tanks we use external antennas 
where we can put an arrestor inline. The only time I lose rf is with 
integrated antennas.

I've only used a couple of gas tubes with cartridges, and we replaced 
them every time a strike happened. Now I get to sleep at night verses 
going to a tower to replace a cartridge.

Dave



Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote:
> Whats your life expectancy on those polyphasers?  Their website states 
> they are good for multiple strikes, but just wondering about the 
> durability. etc,.
>
> -Israel
>
> David Hulsebus wrote:
>   
>> Same here, Polyphasers. No more gas tubes. I hate getting a call that I 
>> have to climb a water tank because a storm knocked out a gas cartridge.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>> That’s why I quit buying lightning arrestors with "gas tubes" in them. Too
>>> much worrying if the gas tube was blown or not, so I started buying
>>> polyphaser's and never looked back
>>>
>>> Kurt Fankhauser
>>> WAVELINC
>>> P.O. Box 126
>>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>>> 419-562-6405
>>> www.wavelinc.com
>>>  
>>>  
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of David Hulsebus
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:45 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>>>
>>> I've had the quarter waves that take multiple strikes go partially out 
>>> in the past. Gas tubes have just blown.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> RickG wrote:
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
 On that note. Can lightning protectors go partially bad or are they like a
 fuse and either work or not?
 -RickG

 On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
 
   
 
>>> wrote:
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
   
 
   
 
> Even so, the performance should be the same both ways, not tx vs. rx.
>
> I still think he needs to look at the lightning arrestors.  Not sure how
> they could make a difference but that's the one thing that's unknown to
>   
> 
>   
>>> me.
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
> marlon
>
>  - Original Message -
>  From: Travis Johnson
>  To: WISPA General List
>  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:05 PM
>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
>
>  Hi,
>
>  I have to agree with Gino here... even at 7 degree downtilt, you are
> cutting it very close. You may want to try 5 degrees on just one sector
>   
> 
>   
>>> and
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
> see if that helps.
>
>  Travis
>
>
>  Michael Baird wrote:
> Gino, wisp-router.com, would the downtilt affect the AP RSSI level?
>
> Antenna Height
>ft
> Downtilt Angle
>°
> Vertical Beamwidth
>°
> Results
> Inner -3dB Radius   0.1 Miles
> Sweet spot  0.2 Miles
> Outer -3dB Radius   5.24Miles
>
>
> I told him 7.8, but I'm sure he didn't get dead on, just the best he
> could with his inclinometer.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>  Where are you running the calcs? I use
> http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/AntDowntiltCalc.as
>
> With your input, I get main lobe 0.2 miles / -3db @ 7
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Michael Baird
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:51 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
>
> Gino,
>
> 145', 15 degree VB, 7.7/7.8 puts my -3d at ~5 miles. If my downtilt was
> wrong, I would think it would impact the receive on my CPE's, much more
> then on the tower AP's, maybe that's a poor assumption on my part
> though.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>I think your downtilt is too much, whats your area and tower height?
> The beamwidth of the maxrad sector?
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-b

Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Butch Evans]

On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 10:47 -0500, Patrick D.. Nix, Jr wrote:
> Yes, I use mikrotik for end user protection and routing but I'm not sure
> that will fit the bill here.  I think I may need more of a corporate
> type solution.  I've used Watchguard and cisco products in the past but
> I thought maybe I could save some $$ and go with a linux homebrew

Why would it not "fit the bill"?  It is iptables, which you will get
with your linux homebrew solution.  It just adds the "nice gui" you
asked for.  Mikrotik, for what it's worth, is not just a hardware
solution, but runs very well on an x86 platform.  I just don't
understand what you think is missing in MT that is in any linux
"homebrew" solution.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *






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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network

[Butch Evans]

On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 11:46 -0500, Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net wrote:
> Can do everything on this, but the cost.  Looks like around $515 in 
> single unit pricing.  Shoot me a call if you have questions.

And the following:

> > - Automatic scan for best channel
> > - Outdoor, ready to hang (not a roll-your-own)
> > - Browser Configurable
> > - Tech support from a manufacturer (not third party 
> > support/forums/mail lists)
> > - FCC certified as a system

Mikrotik cannot do those.  I guess it depends on what "ready to hang"
means, so you MAY have that one.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *






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Re: [WISPA] DTV Arrives but Transition Continues

[Scottie Arnett]

Charles,

You are evidently in a IP rich environment(based on your statement:"and move to 
a pure IP based solution." We still do good here to get a nice unfettered 
stream of you-tube. Just saw today that LG is including all their TV's with 
Netflix built in! I am in one of those supposedly "digital divide areas" and I 
can say that there is not enough bandwidth here to support no more than 10 high 
def you-tube videos within 30 miles, no matter which carrier you choose.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for this White Space hype. It will hep me 
tremendously more than you guys in the big cities. The "BIG" boys are fighting 
this stuff tooth and nail so far, so it will be interesting how it fills out.

Scottie


-- Original Message --
From: Charles Wyble 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:10:51 -0700

>WISPS unite. It's time to start sending packets over them airwaves! :)
>
>Why they don't abolish broadcast tv/radio and move to a pure IP based 
>solution I don't know. It would stimulate the economy. IPTV could just 
>as easy be IP radio. :)
>
>Jack Unger wrote:
>> Anyone who even suspects that they might want to set up a TV White Space 
>> WAN someday should start following the news about digital television 
>> (DTV). You can probably benefit from some of the information contained 
>> in the following article.
>> 
>> *http://tinyurl.com/mqhcys
>> 
>> 
>> *jack*
>> *
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
>> Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
>> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
>> www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
>> Twitter - "wireless_jack"
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> 
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> 
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Butch Evans]

On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 11:50 -0500, Patrick D.. Nix, Jr wrote:
> Maybe trying another approach... has anyone successfully implemented a
> firewall using Imagestream rebel with powercode?  I have written some
> iptables rule and placed them in the post config script I can see where
> it is applying them but doesn't seem to be blocking properly.

Patrick,
I'd suggest giving ImageStream support a call.  This is their "power
alley" (support).

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *






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Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall

[Scott Carullo]

I've used Imagestream firewall rules for many years without a hickup.  
Works great and doesn't seem to bog the router down.  I have *lots* of 
rules and our router would still be able to handle 100+MB throughput 
without issue.  And yes, Imagestream support get my kudos, by far the best 
support of any IT product I've ever owned.  I've owned almost one of 
everything at least so thats saying a lot...  Call them they will fix you 
right up.

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102

 Original Message 
> From: "Butch Evans" 
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:00 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Suggestions on Firewall
> 
> On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 11:50 -0500, Patrick D.. Nix, Jr wrote:
> > Maybe trying another approach... has anyone successfully implemented a
> > firewall using Imagestream rebel with powercode?  I have written some
> > iptables rule and placed them in the post config script I can see 
where
> > it is applying them but doesn't seem to be blocking properly.
> 
> Patrick,
> I'd suggest giving ImageStream support a call.  This is their "power
> alley" (support).
> 
> -- 
> 
> * Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
> * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
> * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
> * http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network

[Scott Carullo]

Butch, MT has some Mesh support built in now, I assume you have tested it 
and / or helped others who may have deployed, whats your feedback on 
functionality and stability? Ready for real world deployment?

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102

 Original Message 
> From: "Butch Evans" 
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:59 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network
> 
> On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 11:46 -0500, Dennis Burgess - LinkTechs.net wrote:
> > Can do everything on this, but the cost.  Looks like around $515 in 
> > single unit pricing.  Shoot me a call if you have questions.
> 
> And the following:
> 
> > > - Automatic scan for best channel
> > > - Outdoor, ready to hang (not a roll-your-own)
> > > - Browser Configurable
> > > - Tech support from a manufacturer (not third party 
> > > support/forums/mail lists)
> > > - FCC certified as a system
> 
> Mikrotik cannot do those.  I guess it depends on what "ready to hang"
> means, so you MAY have that one.
> 
> -- 
> 
> * Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
> * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
> * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
> * http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [WISPA] DTV Arrives but Transition Continues

[Charles Wyble]

Scottie Arnett wrote:
> Charles,
> 
> You are evidently in a IP rich environment(based on your statement:"and move 
> to a pure IP based solution." 


Well I use that in a somewhat generic fashion. I should have said 
"internet technology based solution".

The carriers are using IPTV to deliver TV now. Over fiber for the most 
part.

We still do good here to get a nice unfettered stream of you-tube. Just 
saw today that LG is including all their TV's with Netflix built in! I 
am in one of those supposedly "digital divide areas" and I can say that 
there is not enough bandwidth here to support no more than 10 high def 
you-tube videos within 30 miles, no matter which carrier you choose.

Hmmm. Interesting.

Well perhaps a wifi/wimax/whitespaces solution utilzing massive amounts 
of spectrum (*cough*700 mhz block sold to $bigtelcos *cough*) will 
deliver enough bandwidth?

How much spectrum does tv/radio take up now?

I may be crazy, who knows? :) I'm just curious as to whether spectrum 
efficiency gains could be had by changing over to IP delivery in the 
tv/radio s


> 
> Don't get me wrong, I am all for this White Space hype. It will hep me 
> tremendously more than you guys in the big cities. The "BIG" boys are 
> fighting this stuff tooth and nail so far, so it will be interesting how it 
> fills out.
> 

Of course they are. This is what they do. It's all they know how to do.




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Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation

[RickG]

Ya, I've seen that too. I actually meant the coax units. -RickG

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman
wrote:

> I know cat5 surge supressors go partially bad.
>
> On 6/18/09, RickG  wrote:
> > On that note. Can lightning protectors go partially bad or are they like
> a
> > fuse and either work or not?
> > -RickG
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Even so, the performance should be the same both ways, not tx vs. rx.
> >>
> >> I still think he needs to look at the lightning arrestors.  Not sure how
> >> they could make a difference but that's the one thing that's unknown to
> >> me.
> >> marlon
> >>
> >>  - Original Message -
> >>  From: Travis Johnson
> >>  To: WISPA General List
> >>  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 12:05 PM
> >>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
> >>
> >>
> >>  Hi,
> >>
> >>  I have to agree with Gino here... even at 7 degree downtilt, you are
> >> cutting it very close. You may want to try 5 degrees on just one sector
> >> and
> >> see if that helps.
> >>
> >>  Travis
> >>
> >>
> >>  Michael Baird wrote:
> >> Gino, wisp-router.com, would the downtilt affect the AP RSSI level?
> >>
> >> Antenna Height
> >>ft
> >> Downtilt Angle
> >>°
> >> Vertical Beamwidth
> >>°
> >> Results
> >> Inner -3dB Radius   0.1 Miles
> >> Sweet spot  0.2 Miles
> >> Outer -3dB Radius   5.24Miles
> >>
> >>
> >> I told him 7.8, but I'm sure he didn't get dead on, just the best he
> >> could with his inclinometer.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Michael Baird
> >>  Where are you running the calcs? I use
> >> http://www.wirelessconnections.net/calcs/AntDowntiltCalc.as
> >>
> >> With your input, I get main lobe 0.2 miles / -3db @ 7
> >>
> >> Gino A. Villarini
> >> g...@aeronetpr.com
> >> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> >> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Michael Baird
> >> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:51 PM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
> >>
> >> Gino,
> >>
> >> 145', 15 degree VB, 7.7/7.8 puts my -3d at ~5 miles. If my downtilt was
> >> wrong, I would think it would impact the receive on my CPE's, much more
> >> then on the tower AP's, maybe that's a poor assumption on my part
> >> though.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Michael Baird
> >>
> >>I think your downtilt is too much, whats your area and tower height?
> >> The beamwidth of the maxrad sector?
> >>
> >>
> >> Gino A. Villarini
> >> g...@aeronetpr.com
> >> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> >> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> >> On Behalf Of Michael Baird
> >> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:29 PM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Radio Seperation
> >>
> >> My sector's are Maxrad adjustable sector's horizontally polarized,
> >> adjusted to 120/13db, at 7.7 - 7.8 downtilt, trying to cover a 5 mile
> >> radius.
> >> Radios, are Ubiquity 400mw radio's, I've turned down to 23/200mw.
> >> CPE's, are Ubiquity PS2, same radio at 400mw, Horizontal antenna at 18
> >>
> >>
> >>dbi.
> >>
> >> RSSI at the CPE is great, RSSI at the AP is poor often different by
> >> 16-20 db.
> >>
> >> I also mentioned the RFLinx Qwave lightning arrestors, this is the
> >> first tower we've used them on.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Michael Baird
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  I don't think that this would be an antenna location issue.
> >>
> >> What antennas did you use and where are they pointed?
> >>
> >> Also, what output are the radios?  If you use 600mw radios on the ap
> >> side and 100 mw radios on the rx side it'll make a difference.
> >>
> >> Also, having LOW power at the tx is almost always a good idea,
> >> especially when colocated like this.  I usually only run 15 to 17dB
> >> at
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  the ap's.  Most of my sectors are 13dB.  Yeah, I have customers at
> 18
> >>
> >>
> >>miles with multi meg RELIABLE service this way.  There are other
> >> customers at much shorter ranges that don't get reliable service, but
> >>
> >>
> >>that's caused by other issues :-).
> >>
> >>
> >>  We run most of our cpe at pretty high power these days due to the
> >> need
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  to blow through the overpowered competition or just over all noise
> >>
> >>
> >>levels.
> >>
> >>
> >>  Anyway, what gain are the antennas and where are they pointed?  How
> >> much downtilt etc.
> >>
> >> How far are the customers from the tower?
> >>
> >> What polarity are the antennas?  All the same, or did you mix it up?
> >>
> >> What are the cpe radios?  What power, what antennas etc.
> >>
> >> If you had a 15 db transmit antenna and a 15 db transmit radio
> >> shooting to a
> >> 15 dB panel at 5 miles you should see an rssi of, -83 or so.  Legally

Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Mesh Network

[Butch Evans]

On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 22:19 -0400, Scott Carullo wrote:
> Butch, MT has some Mesh support built in now, I assume you have tested it 
> and / or helped others who may have deployed, whats your feedback on 
> functionality and stability? Ready for real world deployment?

I've tested it in numerous configurations in a lab environment.
Configuration is quick and easy.  It works pretty well for small
deployments, but does not work well when a router has multiple wireless
interfaces that are part of the mesh.  If the configuration includes
only one wireless card in the mesh (even if there are multiple ethernet
cards in the mesh), it does work well.  Traffic engineering is much
easier (and works better) than straight bridging (WDS).  If the meshed
wireless card is also providing access, I have seen the mesh stability
rapidly ebb away.  I believe this is due to the fact the fact that the
radio I was testing with (a laptop) has a tendency to remodulate from
time to time.  I don't think it's outside the realm of "real world" to
see modulation speed change with clients, either.  

Another thing I noticed in my testing was that performance occasionally
went into the toilet.  I am not sure why this was happening.  It had
nothing to do with RF when I noticed this.  I believe it had to do with
the mesh recalculating the paths when one link or another remodulated
after sitting idle for a time, though I never "caught it" doing this.

Generally speaking, I'd say that the mesh is working, but it is still
very beta.  If your configuration is backhaul devices with an AP (dual
radio OR single radios), then I don't think you'll have much trouble
with it.  I would not call the current implementation production ready,
however.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *






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