[WISPA] wow! Motorola Whitespaces filing

2007-03-06 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
I don't agree with all of it.  But the main issues are in agreement with 
what most wisps will want.


Pushing for unlicensed vs. licensed is a big leap in our direction for Moto.

laters,
marlon

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Is anyone thinking about 17 and 60 ghz?

2007-03-06 Thread Tom DeReggi

If you define an LSP that matches your SLA then MPLS
instead using SLA driven metrics like latency, jitter, and packet loss.


Good idea. Also learned today that Bridgewave can sent out Traps with 
reporting 3 different link states, each indicating how close to the minimum 
DB level, to help indicate when to switch to a backup link path..


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Is anyone thinking about 17 and 60 ghz?



Tom DeReggi wrote:
Anyone that can afford name brand high capacity unlicensed PTPs can 
afford 60Ghz.
You can go 1/2 mile for under $10,000 with Proxim.  Financed over 3 years 
will allow it to be paid for with the first T1 customer.
The problem is back hauling it :-)  Not all WISPs will be in the position 
to do that.  Also take note that the metrix on shortest hop routing may 
no longer be applicable.  A 5 hop GB network at 2miles each may be faster 
path than the 10 miles 10mbps backhaul.  But what happens the .5% of the 
time when the GB gets marginal? and the backup slower 10 mile links 
perform better? And what happens when the link is only as fast as the 
weakest link in a 5 hop path?  It very well may take smarter routing to 
handle the job than just OSPF, depending on the SLA one needs to deliver. 
Because capacity and packet loss are the metrix that need to be 
considered most.
If you define an LSP that matches your SLA then MPLS will select any 
combination of layer 3 routes to encapsulate your customer's traffic. This 
has the advantage of routing not based on distance metrics, but instead 
using SLA driven metrics like latency, jitter, and packet loss.


-Matt

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Justice Department Takes Aim at Image-Sharing Sites

2007-03-06 Thread Marlon K. Schafer

Yeah, I noticed that too.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Rick Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 4:20 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Justice Department Takes Aim at Image-Sharing Sites



yeah interesting quote...

"Only universities and libraries would be excluded, one participant said.
"There's a PR concern with including the libraries, so we're not going to
include them," the participant quoted the Justice Department as saying. 
"We

know we're going to get a pushback, so we're not going to do that." "

How about we "push back" ? :)


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 11:57 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Justice Department Takes Aim at Image-Sharing Sites


http://news.com.com/Justice+Department+takes+aim+at+image-sharing+sites/2100
-1028_3-6163679.html?tag=nefd.lede

--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com




--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Is anyone thinking about 17 and 60 ghz?

2007-03-06 Thread Pete Davis
My understanding about 60ghz (what I remember reading anyway) is that 
its good for 1000mbps data links, but MAX distance of 1Mile, since O2 
(Oxygen) resonates at 60ghz. It was originally used for spy satellite to 
spy satellite links (in space), since it couldn't conceivably be picked 
up by any antenna on the ground, friend or foe.



pd

Mario Pommier wrote:
   Bridgewave 60Ghz works excellently!  Very nice stuff.  Full Gbps full 
duplex speeds.  Few computers or laptops, if any at all, can reach those 
speeds.  Our sysadmin figured a way to test capacity with Cisco switches 
on both ends by flooding the link.

   Expensive.  Yes.
   I only see it possible to be deployed in 100%-paid-for PtP projects: 
medical, government, industrial -- anyway it won't go more than 
~700meters, the drier the area the better.
   If I understood correctly, the US Gov bans US 60Ghz manufacturers 
from exporting their gear outside the US because when the US military 
goes somewhere they can't find 60Ghz links -- that's how secure it is: 
very narrow beamwidths (~1*) and complete signal fade after about 
1mile.  If you don't know the link is there (or you can't see the 
antennas) it's practically impossible to find the stuff.  Whereas for 
licensed 70 and 80Ghz all you need to do is look in the FCC website to 
know who deployed what-where-when and how.
   Regarding deployment: you need TOTAL LOS.  Even branches blowing in 
and out of the path will drop the link.


Mario

Dawn DiPietro wrote:

Mark,

I think 60 Ghz is a good solution if you can afford it. At this point 
it is still not in the price range of the average WISP but it is great 
stuff.

I think Matt Liotta had a link or 2 with some 60 Ghz gear.

Regards,
Dawn DiPietro


wispa wrote:
In the search for the bigger last mile pipe, there's unlicensed at 
both 17 and 60 ghz.  I'm not sure if the consumer electronics 
industry is "up" for working at 60 ghz, but what about 17 ghz?


Google gets me a lot of theoretical work at both, and engineering 
discussions of both, but nothing that looks like something otehr than 
"talkware".





Mark Koskenmaki  <> Neofast, Inc
Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains
541-969-8200

  








--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 18ghz links

2007-03-06 Thread Travis Johnson

Hi,

We are in a very dry climate (actually considered a desert climate). 
Going 19 miles, we are using 4ft high performance dishes with high power 
radios (+22db output) and we have 32db of fade margin. This link has 
never been down in 3+ years.


Travis
Microserv

paul hendry wrote:

Hi Travis,

Just looking to venture into the world of 18GHz. We are looking at our 
first link to be about 17.5 miles and I'm wondering if you could give us 
more details on your 19 mile link (heights, dish size/db, throughput 
speeds, fade margin, etc.)


Many thanks,

Paul.

-Original Message-
From: Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 06 March 2007 05:00

To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com; WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] 18ghz links

Hi,

We have had several 18ghz links up and running for almost 4 years. Using 

many of the path calc programs, they show as much as 28 minutes per year 

of outage (due to multi-path and rain fade). Yet, during the entire last 

4 years, we have never seen the signal change by more than 3-4db. We 
have over 30db of fade margin on these links... so, my question is, does 

18ghz just die instantly (like 38ghz does) in a heavy rain storm? We 
have never had either of our 18ghz links go down (one is 7 miles and the 


other is 19 miles).

I am wanting to try and do a 28 mile link, and I can do it with 20db of 
fade margin... so I am wondering if that will be enough, or if the path 
calcs will be correct and we will have as much as 20 hours of downtime 
per year? (99.7653% uptime).


Any thoughts?

Travis
Microserv
  

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


RE: [WISPA] Justice Department Takes Aim at Image-Sharing Sites

2007-03-06 Thread Rick Smith
yeah interesting quote...

"Only universities and libraries would be excluded, one participant said.
"There's a PR concern with including the libraries, so we're not going to
include them," the participant quoted the Justice Department as saying. "We
know we're going to get a pushback, so we're not going to do that." "

How about we "push back" ? :)


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 11:57 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Justice Department Takes Aim at Image-Sharing Sites


http://news.com.com/Justice+Department+takes+aim+at+image-sharing+sites/2100
-1028_3-6163679.html?tag=nefd.lede

-- 
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com




-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


RE: [WISPA] 18ghz links

2007-03-06 Thread paul hendry
Hi Travis,

Just looking to venture into the world of 18GHz. We are looking at our 
first link to be about 17.5 miles and I'm wondering if you could give us 
more details on your 19 mile link (heights, dish size/db, throughput 
speeds, fade margin, etc.)

Many thanks,

Paul.

-Original Message-
From: Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 06 March 2007 05:00
To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com; WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] 18ghz links

Hi,

We have had several 18ghz links up and running for almost 4 years. Using 

many of the path calc programs, they show as much as 28 minutes per year 

of outage (due to multi-path and rain fade). Yet, during the entire last 

4 years, we have never seen the signal change by more than 3-4db. We 
have over 30db of fade margin on these links... so, my question is, does 

18ghz just die instantly (like 38ghz does) in a heavy rain storm? We 
have never had either of our 18ghz links go down (one is 7 miles and the 

other is 19 miles).

I am wanting to try and do a 28 mile link, and I can do it with 20db of 
fade margin... so I am wondering if that will be enough, or if the path 
calcs will be correct and we will have as much as 20 hours of downtime 
per year? (99.7653% uptime).

Any thoughts?

Travis
Microserv
-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] Press Release: WISPA,Part-15.org concur on whitespace usage issues

2007-03-06 Thread Ron Wallace
Marlon & Michael;
Mozaltov, Cheers, this is great news, we should work togerther more, IMHO.
Ron Wallace

>-Original Message-
>From: David Hughes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, March 5, 2007 09:55 PM
>To: ''WISPA General List''
>Subject: [WISPA] Press Release: WISPA, Part-15.org concur on whitespace usage 
>issues
>
>
>PHONE: (509) 982-2181
>FAX: (509) 982-2238
>
>1 DR. Park Road
>Suite H1
>Mt. Vernon, Il. 62864
>
>
>
>WISPA and Part-15.Org Concur on use of Whitespace Spectrum
>Washington, DC (March 1, 2007) One of the key issues concerning commercial
>wireless broadband providers is how the FCC will control the unused
>television channels' "white space" to unlicensed use for broadband and
>wireless innovation (FCC Docket 04-186). 
>
>The Wireless Internet Service Providers Association, as well as Part-15.Org,
>both leading representatives of the industry, have joined forces in
>agreement to refute claims made by the television broadcast industry that
>unlicensed devices operating in unused TV channels would interfere with TV
>reception and other licensed uses of the TV band; and second, whether the TV
>white space spectrum should be exclusively licensed instead of unlicensed. 
>
>Both industry representatives told the Federal Communication Commission that
>opening this spectrum to unlicensed use will help provide more affordable
>and ubiquitous broadband coverage, particularly in rural areas. It will also
>pave the way for improved home and enterprise networking, wireless device
>and service innovation
>
>Both Part-15.Org and WISPA explain in their comments to the FCC that
>licensing is both impractical and inadvisable in this band and argue that
>the interference-avoidance mechanisms proposed in the FCC's original 2004
>rulemaking are sufficient-along with specific technical parameters to be
>developed by the FCC-to protect licensed TV band users. 
>
>Marlon K. Schafer, FCC Committee chairperson for WISPA, said that he is
>pleased both groups are working together on this important issue. "An
>unlicensed environment will encourage entrepreneurship, and this is
>especially important in rural areas where major providers are not willing to
>expend the needed capital for a relatively few subscribers."
>
>He also said the organizations "want to make sure that incumbent, licensed
>users of the spectrum are not harmed by unlicensed use. We want to be good
>stewards of the environment."
>
>Schafer said that a May, 2006 Pew Report showed more than eight million
>wireless broadband subscribers were in place, with that number increasing
>daily. "We believe at least twice that are waiting for service because we
>have technological and physical band limitations that this spectrum could
>help alleviate."
>"There are vast areas of the nation where VHF and UHF analog television
>signals are not received and by reusing this essentially vacant spectrum, we
>can help bring high-speed broadband connectivity to these waiting homes,
>businesses, schools and governments on a cost-effective basis," he said.
>
>Michael R. Anderson, chairman of the License Exempt Wireless Internet
>Service Providers Organization, Part-15.ORG, said that continuing to "do
>business as usual" regarding spectrum utilization is not in the best
>interest of rural Americans. 
>
>He said the FCC's recent approach to open additional spectrum to license
>exempt broadband providers exemplifies their docket to remove common
>barriers that have stifled the growth of broadband for over a decade. 
>
>" PART-15.ORG applauds the FCC for their bold initiatives in moving forward
>with opening up the 'white space' for full utilization for broadband,
>Anderson said.
>
>
>For more information please contact:
> Marlon K. Schafer 
>FCC Committee Chairman
>Founding Board Member 
>(509) 982-2181 
>(509) 988-0260 cell
>
>
>
>WISPA - Wireless Internet Service Providers Association is dedicated to
>promoting and improving the WISP industry. We welcome you to our web site
>and invite you to read about the association and its efforts.
>
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


[WISPA] Justice Department Takes Aim at Image-Sharing Sites

2007-03-06 Thread Jack Unger


http://news.com.com/Justice+Department+takes+aim+at+image-sharing+sites/2100-1028_3-6163679.html?tag=nefd.lede

--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com




--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


Re: [WISPA] 18ghz links

2007-03-06 Thread Dylan Oliver

Hi Travis,

The 18, 23, and 24 (UL) GHz Dragonwave products do downshift to QPSK from
QAM; their 11 GHz product does not. I believe that this shift is already
figured into Dragonwave's uptime figures.

Your 28 mile link sounds like a good bet to me, but you might want to
analyze maximum rainfall over the last four years to the maximum historical
record for 100 years. I'm sure Dragonwave would be happy to help you justify
the purchase of another link.

Do you have raw data / graphs you could share of the performance of your
Dragonwave links? I'd like to see if I can find a correlation between
historical rainfall data and changes in your signal levels

Best,
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


RE: [WISPA] 900 mhz BPF

2007-03-06 Thread Rick Smith
this ? http://www.ubnt.com/cf.php4

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 7:10 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] 900 mhz BPF

A little while back someone posted a source for 900 mhz BPF they  
intended to use with a 900 Mhz MT AP.  Could you post that again?

Thanks
Chris


This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


[WISPA] 900 mhz BPF

2007-03-06 Thread ccooper
A little while back someone posted a source for 900 mhz BPF they  
intended to use with a 900 Mhz MT AP.  Could you post that again?


Thanks
Chris


This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?

2007-03-06 Thread Gino Villarini
Those folks at Towerstream really like to test their gear ;-)

https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/els/reports/GenericSearchResult.cf
m?RequestTimeout=500



Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 4:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?

You are trying to wind me up aren't you George? :)

Speaking to the community at large: 
The good folks at the FCC lab in MD are already buried. In part, some of
this is because of frivolous and disingenuous STA filings. Your average
simple STA used to take about 2 months tops to get approved. The same
STA now takes over 1/2 a year. And remember, this is the same lab that
is directly approving/certifying 5.4 GHz gear. In other words, for every
garbage STA the lab must process, everything the lab legitimately needs
to do only gets pushed out and delayed.

Yes, it tweaks me to see so many processes abused; it is symptomatic of
the disregard by some for FCC rules. And yes, there is abuse of STAs at
the hands of some operators (not just some WISPs). Two years ago I could
point to no such abuse by our industry. 

And yes, I know I sound like a broken CD player, stuck on repeat.
 
Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of George Rogato
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 11:45 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650, ok, so what's current status?


So what your saying Patrick is,
It's ok, we should go and buy some of these things and do some testing, 
right?

:)

George
-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org




 This footnote confirms that this email message has been
scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code,
vandals & computer viruses(84).







 
 


This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals &
computer viruses.





-- 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/