Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas

2008-09-27 Thread Tom DeReggi 
Interesting.  I wasn't saying that it isn't hard.

Some manufacturers have found easy and cost effective ways to make Dual Pol 
antennas. But I'm guessing there could be some intelectual property patent 
issues, or anyone to do it?

But there has to be some savings attributed to shared costs such as ... 
mounts, case, shipping costs, overhead, distributor markup, R&D.  These 
things are all a tangable cost that goes toward the cost of a single pol 
antenna, and are not increased when the inside of the antenna design gets 
modified to be DP.  I'd be intereted in what percentage of a single pol 
antenna cost is for the above 4 things compared to the element itself.

Truthfully, we have come a long way with DP design and price for parabolics 
and subscriber panels.

What realy confuses me is, why manufacturers still can;t come up with a low 
cost DP AP sector antenna?

Its ironic as heck, that trango can sell an entire AP radio and int DP 
sector antenna, for less than third parties sell a single DP sector antenna 
by itself.

Thats still the missing peice of the puzzle in 5.x Ghz DP.

Its Ironic as heck... Titltek can make a 4ft 900Mhz dual pol 90deg for under 
$700. But can't find a < 2ft  5.x Ghz Dp 90 for less than a grand.
The last few I did, I took my old Trango 5800s, drill holes in them for the 
pigtails, took out the SBC, and used them for the antenna. It was cheaper 
than buying an antenna.

A couple vendors have represented that they can make them. But I don't see 
part numbers listed. I'd love to see these in the sub $300 range.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas


>A dual pol panel antenna can be an order of magnitude more difficult to 
>make
> than a single linear polarized antenna.  Almost all panel antennas are
> either an array of patches or an array of butterfly dipole elements over a
> ground plane.  Most designers are trying to put as much gain in the area 
> as
> they can.  The means the feed network and driven elements are crammed in 
> so
> close together that you suffer some degradation.  To make a dual pol patch
> you have to use a square patch.  That already is less than optimum.  Then
> you have to produce a second feed mechanism for feeding the second feed
> point on all the patches.  That means other layers and intermediate ground
> planes etc.  Not easy at all.
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
>
>
>> Drew,
>>
>> Who sells/stocks  it?
>>
>> I also saw someone was selling what looked like the MTI Dual pol 25dbi 
>> for
>> about $200, I think it was wlanparts.com. Thats starting to get
>> affordable.
>>
>> I'm fine with Dual Pol dishes for $225, its a lot of metal. Plus there
>> usually needed for more critical links. Also used more often on tower
>> sites
>> where I get charge per antenna.
>> However, when a standard panel is only $50, it can't be that more
>> expensive
>> to add a couple more elements for the second pol.
>> Clearly a lot of markup fat in the price model.  I think there is a huge
>> market for the dual pol Panels at sub $150, but at $250, a WISP really 
>> has
>> to think about whether its worth their while, when they can just install
>> two
>> single pol antennas side by side. Expecially if isntalled on customer
>> roofs
>> where there aren;t colo fees. I see no reasons that the smaller gain
>> panels
>> couldn't be made and sold for sub $125.  Don't get me wrong, its still
>> good
>> news to learn of new DP panels available as option.  Trango also has 
>> their
>> external model, but its about $300.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Drew Lentz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
>>
>>
>>>A product I really like for dual-pole is the Mars  WA56-DP25N. It's a
>>> pretty inexpensive panel from 4.9 - 5.875 @ 25dBi .. There are 2
>>> versions, 1 is the antenna alone, the other is with an enclosure. Its ~
>>> $260.  I know its not $150, but its not too bad!
>>>
>>> -d
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:04 PM, Mike Brownson wrote:
>>>
 A broadband dual pol dish will work from 5.2 to 5.9Ghz.  You'll get
 the same gain on both polarities.  But there's noting I know of less
 than $150.  Usually dual pol dishes are used where you may need a
 higher quality antenna, so all the manufacturers I know of
 (RadioWaves, Maxrad, Pac Wireless) for dual pol are the higher grade
 varieties.

 Mike

 

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf

Re: [WISPA] WISP Training

2008-09-27 Thread Dennis Burgess 
Keep in mind that there are plenty of Mikrotik Training courses, both 
on-line, and on-site courses available in the US and around the world!   
There are already courses offered in 4 days, both again, on-line and in 
person.  Just hit www.mikrotik.com for training! 

We already use VoIP on all of our courses!   You can call into a number 
if you wish!  We have students all over the world using the VoIP and 
don't have much issues.  You can simply ask questions, not to mention we 
have SEVERAL Certified Engineers answering questions, not just one! 

Also, within 2 months, we will have each session available so that you 
can simply watch them ON-DEMAND!  Of course, this is not as good as 
having a LIVE instructor that you can ask questions with.  But still 
gets you the information! 

--
* Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services*
314-735-0270
http://www.linktechs.net 

*/ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training 
/*



Butch Evans wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Sep 2008, Forbes Mercy wrote:
>
>   
>> Since you guide people to training I was wondering if there is a 
>> down and dirty course on getting the best out of Microtik radios, 
>> including programming, diagnosing problems and optimizing the 
>> features.  I have found some but they are usually a grand and last 
>> for months.  I'd like to find something a bit lower and quicker, 
>> any ideas?
>> 
>
> Actually, Forbes, I will let ya in on a little secret.  Just don't 
> tell anyone.  ;-)  I am nearly done with some very unique training 
> courses.  Each will be very short and will cover very specific 
> topics.  The method to access this information is an upcoming 
> announcement, but should be very soon (about a month).  I can tell 
> you that you will see more than just Mikrotik resources, too.
>
> You can make suggestions for topics you'd like to see if you like. 
> I set up a temporary wiki site at http://wiki.butchevans.com/.
>
>   



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Re: [WISPA] MT DOMs

2008-09-27 Thread Forrest W. Christian 
Just curious, is MT bootable from a USB key?   If so, that might be 
cheaper still.

Travis Johnson wrote:
> Yes. Thanks. I found another unit, but it was more expensive for smaller 
> size.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Brad Belton wrote:
>   
>> http://www.memory.com/item.asp?item=TS1GSDOM22V
>>
>> This is what you're looking for, right?
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Brad Belton
>> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:30 AM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT DOMs
>>
>> I did a search for sata dom and found one or two.  They are out there, but I
>> haven't purchased yet.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:03 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] MT DOMs
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We have used a lot of the PQI DOM (Disk on Module) units for our 
>> Mikrotik installations in x86 systems. However, some of the newer 
>> systemboards don't even have IDE on them, only SATA.
>>
>> Does anyone know a good source for the same type of module, but in a 
>> SATA form factor?
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>> 
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>>
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>>   
>> 
>
>
> 
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> 
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Re: [WISPA] MT DOMs

2008-09-27 Thread Travis Johnson 
Yes. Thanks. I found another unit, but it was more expensive for smaller 
size.

Travis
Microserv

Brad Belton wrote:
> http://www.memory.com/item.asp?item=TS1GSDOM22V
>
> This is what you're looking for, right?
>
> Brad
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Brad Belton
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:30 AM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT DOMs
>
> I did a search for sata dom and found one or two.  They are out there, but I
> haven't purchased yet.
>
> Best,
>
>
> Brad
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:03 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] MT DOMs
>
> Hi,
>
> We have used a lot of the PQI DOM (Disk on Module) units for our 
> Mikrotik installations in x86 systems. However, some of the newer 
> systemboards don't even have IDE on them, only SATA.
>
> Does anyone know a good source for the same type of module, but in a 
> SATA form factor?
>
> thanks,
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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>
>
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
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Re: [WISPA] WISP Training

2008-09-27 Thread Butch Evans 
On Sat, 27 Sep 2008, Forbes Mercy wrote:

>Since you guide people to training I was wondering if there is a 
>down and dirty course on getting the best out of Microtik radios, 
>including programming, diagnosing problems and optimizing the 
>features.  I have found some but they are usually a grand and last 
>for months.  I'd like to find something a bit lower and quicker, 
>any ideas?

Actually, Forbes, I will let ya in on a little secret.  Just don't 
tell anyone.  ;-)  I am nearly done with some very unique training 
courses.  Each will be very short and will cover very specific 
topics.  The method to access this information is an upcoming 
announcement, but should be very soon (about a month).  I can tell 
you that you will see more than just Mikrotik resources, too.

You can make suggestions for topics you'd like to see if you like. 
I set up a temporary wiki site at http://wiki.butchevans.com/.

-- 

*Butch Evans*Professional Network Consultation *
*Network Engineering*MikroTik RouterOS *
*573-276-2879   *ImageStream   *
*http://www.butchevans.com/ *StarOS and MORE   *
*http://blog.butchevans.com/*Wired or wireless Networks*
*Mikrotik Certified Consultant  *Professional Technical Trainer*




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Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas

2008-09-27 Thread 3-dB Networks 
Arc is in Hutton's backyard

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cameron Kilton
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 6:00 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas

ARC makes a 20dbi dual pol antenna for pretty cheap. We've used some of
the single pol antennas and they are not too shabby for the price.

http://www.streakwave.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=ARC-ID5820B01&eq=&Tp=

Worth a shot for the price.


~Cameron
Midcoast Internet

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Drew Lentz
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 7:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas

I dont want to sound like a commercial on the list until everything is  
squared away with our vendor membership but you can contact me off- 
list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;-)

thanks!

-drew
On Sep 27, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote:

> Drew,
>
> Who sells/stocks  it?
>
> I also saw someone was selling what looked like the MTI Dual pol  
> 25dbi for
> about $200, I think it was wlanparts.com. Thats starting to get  
> affordable.
>
> I'm fine with Dual Pol dishes for $225, its a lot of metal. Plus there
> usually needed for more critical links. Also used more often on  
> tower sites
> where I get charge per antenna.
> However, when a standard panel is only $50, it can't be that more  
> expensive
> to add a couple more elements for the second pol.
> Clearly a lot of markup fat in the price model.  I think there is a  
> huge
> market for the dual pol Panels at sub $150, but at $250, a WISP  
> really has
> to think about whether its worth their while, when they can just  
> install two
> single pol antennas side by side. Expecially if isntalled on  
> customer roofs
> where there aren;t colo fees. I see no reasons that the smaller gain  
> panels
> couldn't be made and sold for sub $125.  Don't get me wrong, its  
> still good
> news to learn of new DP panels available as option.  Trango also has  
> their
> external model, but its about $300.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Drew Lentz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
>
>
>> A product I really like for dual-pole is the Mars  WA56-DP25N. It's a
>> pretty inexpensive panel from 4.9 - 5.875 @ 25dBi .. There are 2
>> versions, 1 is the antenna alone, the other is with an enclosure.  
>> Its ~
>> $260.  I know its not $150, but its not too bad!
>>
>> -d
>>
>>
>> On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:04 PM, Mike Brownson wrote:
>>
>>> A broadband dual pol dish will work from 5.2 to 5.9Ghz.  You'll get
>>> the same gain on both polarities.  But there's noting I know of less
>>> than $150.  Usually dual pol dishes are used where you may need a
>>> higher quality antenna, so all the manufacturers I know of
>>> (RadioWaves, Maxrad, Pac Wireless) for dual pol are the higher grade
>>> varieties.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Blair Davis
>>> Sent: Thu 9/25/2008 8:41 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
>>>
>>>
>>> All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has got me curious
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a dual pol antenna...
>>>
>>> What I need is H-Pol on 5.3GHz band with 18db or more of gain and V-
>>> Pol on 5.8GHz with 15db or more of gain.  A narrow beam width is a
>>> plus.
>>>
>>> A grid or a dish will be fine.  I'd like to keep the price down as
>>> if it is over $150 or so, it really won't be cost effective.  I can
>>> mount 2 antennas at this location if I have to.
>>>
>>> This is for a short link, about 2000ft, but it will be at the end of
>>> about 50ft of LMR-400.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any ideas
>>>
>>> Blair
>>>
>>>
>>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
>>> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please
>>> notify the system manager. This message contains confidential
>>> information and is intended only for the individual named. If you
>>> are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute
>>> or copy this e-mail.
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>


>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>


>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>


>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
--

Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas

2008-09-27 Thread Cameron Kilton 
ARC makes a 20dbi dual pol antenna for pretty cheap. We've used some of
the single pol antennas and they are not too shabby for the price.

http://www.streakwave.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=ARC-ID5820B01&eq=&Tp=

Worth a shot for the price.


~Cameron
Midcoast Internet

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Drew Lentz
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 7:51 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas

I dont want to sound like a commercial on the list until everything is  
squared away with our vendor membership but you can contact me off- 
list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;-)

thanks!

-drew
On Sep 27, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote:

> Drew,
>
> Who sells/stocks  it?
>
> I also saw someone was selling what looked like the MTI Dual pol  
> 25dbi for
> about $200, I think it was wlanparts.com. Thats starting to get  
> affordable.
>
> I'm fine with Dual Pol dishes for $225, its a lot of metal. Plus there
> usually needed for more critical links. Also used more often on  
> tower sites
> where I get charge per antenna.
> However, when a standard panel is only $50, it can't be that more  
> expensive
> to add a couple more elements for the second pol.
> Clearly a lot of markup fat in the price model.  I think there is a  
> huge
> market for the dual pol Panels at sub $150, but at $250, a WISP  
> really has
> to think about whether its worth their while, when they can just  
> install two
> single pol antennas side by side. Expecially if isntalled on  
> customer roofs
> where there aren;t colo fees. I see no reasons that the smaller gain  
> panels
> couldn't be made and sold for sub $125.  Don't get me wrong, its  
> still good
> news to learn of new DP panels available as option.  Trango also has  
> their
> external model, but its about $300.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Drew Lentz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
>
>
>> A product I really like for dual-pole is the Mars  WA56-DP25N. It's a
>> pretty inexpensive panel from 4.9 - 5.875 @ 25dBi .. There are 2
>> versions, 1 is the antenna alone, the other is with an enclosure.  
>> Its ~
>> $260.  I know its not $150, but its not too bad!
>>
>> -d
>>
>>
>> On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:04 PM, Mike Brownson wrote:
>>
>>> A broadband dual pol dish will work from 5.2 to 5.9Ghz.  You'll get
>>> the same gain on both polarities.  But there's noting I know of less
>>> than $150.  Usually dual pol dishes are used where you may need a
>>> higher quality antenna, so all the manufacturers I know of
>>> (RadioWaves, Maxrad, Pac Wireless) for dual pol are the higher grade
>>> varieties.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Blair Davis
>>> Sent: Thu 9/25/2008 8:41 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
>>>
>>>
>>> All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has got me curious
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a dual pol antenna...
>>>
>>> What I need is H-Pol on 5.3GHz band with 18db or more of gain and V-
>>> Pol on 5.8GHz with 15db or more of gain.  A narrow beam width is a
>>> plus.
>>>
>>> A grid or a dish will be fine.  I'd like to keep the price down as
>>> if it is over $150 or so, it really won't be cost effective.  I can
>>> mount 2 antennas at this location if I have to.
>>>
>>> This is for a short link, about 2000ft, but it will be at the end of
>>> about 50ft of LMR-400.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any ideas
>>>
>>> Blair
>>>
>>>
>>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
>>> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please
>>> notify the system manager. This message contains confidential
>>> information and is intended only for the individual named. If you
>>> are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute
>>> or copy this e-mail.
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>


>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>


>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>


>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>


>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
---

Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas

2008-09-27 Thread Drew Lentz 
I dont want to sound like a commercial on the list until everything is  
squared away with our vendor membership but you can contact me off- 
list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;-)

thanks!

-drew
On Sep 27, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote:

> Drew,
>
> Who sells/stocks  it?
>
> I also saw someone was selling what looked like the MTI Dual pol  
> 25dbi for
> about $200, I think it was wlanparts.com. Thats starting to get  
> affordable.
>
> I'm fine with Dual Pol dishes for $225, its a lot of metal. Plus there
> usually needed for more critical links. Also used more often on  
> tower sites
> where I get charge per antenna.
> However, when a standard panel is only $50, it can't be that more  
> expensive
> to add a couple more elements for the second pol.
> Clearly a lot of markup fat in the price model.  I think there is a  
> huge
> market for the dual pol Panels at sub $150, but at $250, a WISP  
> really has
> to think about whether its worth their while, when they can just  
> install two
> single pol antennas side by side. Expecially if isntalled on  
> customer roofs
> where there aren;t colo fees. I see no reasons that the smaller gain  
> panels
> couldn't be made and sold for sub $125.  Don't get me wrong, its  
> still good
> news to learn of new DP panels available as option.  Trango also has  
> their
> external model, but its about $300.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Drew Lentz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
>
>
>> A product I really like for dual-pole is the Mars  WA56-DP25N. It's a
>> pretty inexpensive panel from 4.9 - 5.875 @ 25dBi .. There are 2
>> versions, 1 is the antenna alone, the other is with an enclosure.  
>> Its ~
>> $260.  I know its not $150, but its not too bad!
>>
>> -d
>>
>>
>> On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:04 PM, Mike Brownson wrote:
>>
>>> A broadband dual pol dish will work from 5.2 to 5.9Ghz.  You'll get
>>> the same gain on both polarities.  But there's noting I know of less
>>> than $150.  Usually dual pol dishes are used where you may need a
>>> higher quality antenna, so all the manufacturers I know of
>>> (RadioWaves, Maxrad, Pac Wireless) for dual pol are the higher grade
>>> varieties.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Blair Davis
>>> Sent: Thu 9/25/2008 8:41 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
>>>
>>>
>>> All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has got me curious
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a dual pol antenna...
>>>
>>> What I need is H-Pol on 5.3GHz band with 18db or more of gain and V-
>>> Pol on 5.8GHz with 15db or more of gain.  A narrow beam width is a
>>> plus.
>>>
>>> A grid or a dish will be fine.  I'd like to keep the price down as
>>> if it is over $150 or so, it really won't be cost effective.  I can
>>> mount 2 antennas at this location if I have to.
>>>
>>> This is for a short link, about 2000ft, but it will be at the end of
>>> about 50ft of LMR-400.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any ideas
>>>
>>> Blair
>>>
>>>
>>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
>>> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please
>>> notify the system manager. This message contains confidential
>>> information and is intended only for the individual named. If you
>>> are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute
>>> or copy this e-mail.
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
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>
>
>
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WISP

Re: [WISPA] WISP Training

2008-09-27 Thread Forbes Mercy 
Butch,

Since you guide people to training I was wondering if there is a down
and dirty course on getting the best out of Microtik radios, including
programming, diagnosing problems and optimizing the features.  I have
found some but they are usually a grand and last for months.  I'd like
to find something a bit lower and quicker, any ideas?

Thanks,
Forbes Mercy
President - Washington Broadband, Inc.



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[WISPA] channel planning question

2008-09-27 Thread Rogelio 
Up til recently, for channel planning, I've simply been picking the 
channels with the lowest RSSI.

This isn't a great method, as beacon channels at high RSSI may have way 
less collision than other channels.

What tools do others here use to analyze this sort of thing? (F/OSS ones 
are preferable)



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Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas

2008-09-27 Thread Chuck McCown - 3 
A dual pol panel antenna can be an order of magnitude more difficult to make 
than a single linear polarized antenna.  Almost all panel antennas are 
either an array of patches or an array of butterfly dipole elements over a 
ground plane.  Most designers are trying to put as much gain in the area as 
they can.  The means the feed network and driven elements are crammed in so 
close together that you suffer some degradation.  To make a dual pol patch 
you have to use a square patch.  That already is less than optimum.  Then 
you have to produce a second feed mechanism for feeding the second feed 
point on all the patches.  That means other layers and intermediate ground 
planes etc.  Not easy at all.

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas


> Drew,
>
> Who sells/stocks  it?
>
> I also saw someone was selling what looked like the MTI Dual pol 25dbi for
> about $200, I think it was wlanparts.com. Thats starting to get 
> affordable.
>
> I'm fine with Dual Pol dishes for $225, its a lot of metal. Plus there
> usually needed for more critical links. Also used more often on tower 
> sites
> where I get charge per antenna.
> However, when a standard panel is only $50, it can't be that more 
> expensive
> to add a couple more elements for the second pol.
> Clearly a lot of markup fat in the price model.  I think there is a huge
> market for the dual pol Panels at sub $150, but at $250, a WISP really has
> to think about whether its worth their while, when they can just install 
> two
> single pol antennas side by side. Expecially if isntalled on customer 
> roofs
> where there aren;t colo fees. I see no reasons that the smaller gain 
> panels
> couldn't be made and sold for sub $125.  Don't get me wrong, its still 
> good
> news to learn of new DP panels available as option.  Trango also has their
> external model, but its about $300.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Drew Lentz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
>
>
>>A product I really like for dual-pole is the Mars  WA56-DP25N. It's a
>> pretty inexpensive panel from 4.9 - 5.875 @ 25dBi .. There are 2
>> versions, 1 is the antenna alone, the other is with an enclosure. Its ~
>> $260.  I know its not $150, but its not too bad!
>>
>> -d
>>
>>
>> On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:04 PM, Mike Brownson wrote:
>>
>>> A broadband dual pol dish will work from 5.2 to 5.9Ghz.  You'll get
>>> the same gain on both polarities.  But there's noting I know of less
>>> than $150.  Usually dual pol dishes are used where you may need a
>>> higher quality antenna, so all the manufacturers I know of
>>> (RadioWaves, Maxrad, Pac Wireless) for dual pol are the higher grade
>>> varieties.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Blair Davis
>>> Sent: Thu 9/25/2008 8:41 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
>>>
>>>
>>> All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has got me curious
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a dual pol antenna...
>>>
>>> What I need is H-Pol on 5.3GHz band with 18db or more of gain and V-
>>> Pol on 5.8GHz with 15db or more of gain.  A narrow beam width is a
>>> plus.
>>>
>>> A grid or a dish will be fine.  I'd like to keep the price down as
>>> if it is over $150 or so, it really won't be cost effective.  I can
>>> mount 2 antennas at this location if I have to.
>>>
>>> This is for a short link, about 2000ft, but it will be at the end of
>>> about 50ft of LMR-400.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any ideas
>>>
>>> Blair
>>>
>>>
>>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
>>> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please
>>> notify the system manager. This message contains confidential
>>> information and is intended only for the individual named. If you
>>> are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute
>>> or copy this e-mail.
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscr

Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas

2008-09-27 Thread Tom DeReggi 
Well, at  $150 each, thats great!

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas


We use the MTI MT-485025/NVH, 23dBi dual-pol panel and have found them as
low as $150 each.

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has got me curious
> 
> I'm looking for a dual pol antenna...
> 
> What I need is H-Pol on 5.3GHz band with 18db or more of gain and V-Pol
> on 5.8GHz with 15db or more of gain. A narrow beam width is a
> plus.
> 
> A grid or a dish will be fine. I'd like to keep the price down as if
> it is over $150 or so, it really won't be cost effective. I can
> mount
> 2 antennas at this location if I have to.
> 
> This is for a short link, about 2000ft, but it will be at the end of
> about 50ft of LMR-400.
> 
> Thanks for any ideas
> 
> Blair
> 
> 
> 
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas

2008-09-27 Thread Tom DeReggi 
Drew,

Who sells/stocks  it?

I also saw someone was selling what looked like the MTI Dual pol 25dbi for 
about $200, I think it was wlanparts.com. Thats starting to get affordable.

I'm fine with Dual Pol dishes for $225, its a lot of metal. Plus there 
usually needed for more critical links. Also used more often on tower sites 
where I get charge per antenna.
However, when a standard panel is only $50, it can't be that more expensive 
to add a couple more elements for the second pol.
Clearly a lot of markup fat in the price model.  I think there is a huge 
market for the dual pol Panels at sub $150, but at $250, a WISP really has 
to think about whether its worth their while, when they can just install two 
single pol antennas side by side. Expecially if isntalled on customer roofs 
where there aren;t colo fees. I see no reasons that the smaller gain panels 
couldn't be made and sold for sub $125.  Don't get me wrong, its still good 
news to learn of new DP panels available as option.  Trango also has their 
external model, but its about $300.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Drew Lentz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas


>A product I really like for dual-pole is the Mars  WA56-DP25N. It's a
> pretty inexpensive panel from 4.9 - 5.875 @ 25dBi .. There are 2
> versions, 1 is the antenna alone, the other is with an enclosure. Its ~
> $260.  I know its not $150, but its not too bad!
>
> -d
>
>
> On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:04 PM, Mike Brownson wrote:
>
>> A broadband dual pol dish will work from 5.2 to 5.9Ghz.  You'll get
>> the same gain on both polarities.  But there's noting I know of less
>> than $150.  Usually dual pol dishes are used where you may need a
>> higher quality antenna, so all the manufacturers I know of
>> (RadioWaves, Maxrad, Pac Wireless) for dual pol are the higher grade
>> varieties.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> 
>>
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Blair Davis
>> Sent: Thu 9/25/2008 8:41 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
>>
>>
>> All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has got me curious
>>
>> I'm looking for a dual pol antenna...
>>
>> What I need is H-Pol on 5.3GHz band with 18db or more of gain and V-
>> Pol on 5.8GHz with 15db or more of gain.  A narrow beam width is a
>> plus.
>>
>> A grid or a dish will be fine.  I'd like to keep the price down as
>> if it is over $150 or so, it really won't be cost effective.  I can
>> mount 2 antennas at this location if I have to.
>>
>> This is for a short link, about 2000ft, but it will be at the end of
>> about 50ft of LMR-400.
>>
>> Thanks for any ideas
>>
>> Blair
>>
>>
>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
>> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please
>> notify the system manager. This message contains confidential
>> information and is intended only for the individual named. If you
>> are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute
>> or copy this e-mail.
>>
>> 
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] Looking for webcam/security software

2008-09-27 Thread Chuck McCown - 3 
One of the quickest and easiest ways is the Wilife system.  I think Logitech 
owns the company now.  It has relatively inexpensive but very smart cameras 
and some stealth cameras (clock radio camera) etc.  It communicates with the 
computer via the power line (homeplug).  Very simple to install.
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:12 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Looking for webcam/security software


> I'm looking for software that records video and audio from a windows
> computer (client uses a cam attached to a computer) whenever motion is
> detected, and uploads it to a remote server.
>
> This is, of course, part of an investigation or evidence collection (not
> sure which) dealing with divorce/children/domestic violence.
>
> Thus, the need for the software to automatically upload to a remote 
> location
> to prevent its being found and deleted by the party under investigation.
>
> If you know of something, I need some help ASAP with this.
>
> Much appreciated.
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
>
> - Original Message - >
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 




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Re: [WISPA] MT DOMs

2008-09-27 Thread Brad Belton 
http://www.memory.com/item.asp?item=TS1GSDOM22V

This is what you're looking for, right?

Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brad Belton
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:30 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] MT DOMs

I did a search for sata dom and found one or two.  They are out there, but I
haven't purchased yet.

Best,


Brad

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:03 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] MT DOMs

Hi,

We have used a lot of the PQI DOM (Disk on Module) units for our 
Mikrotik installations in x86 systems. However, some of the newer 
systemboards don't even have IDE on them, only SATA.

Does anyone know a good source for the same type of module, but in a 
SATA form factor?

thanks,

Travis
Microserv




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Re: [WISPA] Looking for webcam/security software

2008-09-27 Thread Jeromie Reeves 
Mark, Im already working today but give me a ring. I should be heading
up to Boise too so service is iffy for a ways.

On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 10:12 PM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm looking for software that records video and audio from a windows
> computer (client uses a cam attached to a computer) whenever motion is
> detected, and uploads it to a remote server.
>
> This is, of course, part of an investigation or evidence collection (not
> sure which) dealing with divorce/children/domestic violence.
>
> Thus, the need for the software to automatically upload to a remote location
> to prevent its being found and deleted by the party under investigation.
>
> If you know of something, I need some help ASAP with this.
>
> Much appreciated.
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
>
> - Original Message - >
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
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>



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Re: [WISPA] MT DOMs

2008-09-27 Thread Brad Belton 
I did a search for sata dom and found one or two.  They are out there, but I
haven't purchased yet.

Best,


Brad

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:03 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] MT DOMs

Hi,

We have used a lot of the PQI DOM (Disk on Module) units for our 
Mikrotik installations in x86 systems. However, some of the newer 
systemboards don't even have IDE on them, only SATA.

Does anyone know a good source for the same type of module, but in a 
SATA form factor?

thanks,

Travis
Microserv




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[WISPA] MT DOMs

2008-09-27 Thread Travis Johnson 
Hi,

We have used a lot of the PQI DOM (Disk on Module) units for our 
Mikrotik installations in x86 systems. However, some of the newer 
systemboards don't even have IDE on them, only SATA.

Does anyone know a good source for the same type of module, but in a 
SATA form factor?

thanks,

Travis
Microserv



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