Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
That sounds great Patrick! I'm not sure the old Alvarion would part with a RJ45 connector for under $50. (Obviously exaggerated.) I look forward to the webinar. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 7:31:46 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older! Sent from my iPhone On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. The specs on the dual band sector are: 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm 5 GHz: 49 dBm Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that should help the range too. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Patrick, Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running 3X3? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with each band 3x3. WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. Yes John, we have client devices, among them: Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It is a really effective little box. There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. I have to check as there may be others. Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have several other patented interference mitigation techniques. Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 feet deep) boxes and feel like tanks. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Tyson Shreeves Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:20 PM To: j...@mvn.net ; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? We have 3 omni wbs2400 deployed currently and our original reason for trying wavion was the amount of clients we wanted to connect to a single ap. The most we had was 110 clients at one time, but we noticed some performance issues at around 80-90 clients. The model mentioned is BG only not N. Clients connected were roughly 2/3 legacy ubiquiti and 1/3 newer ubnt dual mimo on it.
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
I'm assuming there is 450 per band, 900 total with only about half of that available for real throughput. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org, j...@mvn.net Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 4:07:59 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with each band 3x3. WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. Yes John, we have client devices, among them: Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It is a really effective little box. There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. I have to check as there may be others. Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have several other patented interference mitigation techniques. Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 feet deep) boxes and feel like tanks. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tyson Shreeves Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:20 PM To: j...@mvn.net; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? We have 3 omni wbs2400 deployed currently and our original reason for trying wavion was the amount of clients we wanted to connect to a single ap. The most we had was 110 clients at one time, but we noticed some performance issues at around 80-90 clients. The model mentioned is BG only not N. Clients connected were roughly 2/3 legacy ubiquiti and 1/3 newer ubnt dual mimo on it. Customers speeds set from 512k to 5Mb. They use something called beam forming I believe that supposedly just enables it to penetrate or go around obstacles more efficiently and I think for an omni (which I usually hate) it gets a solid 5-7 miles near line of sight. The new ones they have are BGN and can dual band(2.4 5.8) and supposedly can handle double the amount of clients. And another plus is the few times we have had issues all ive done is create a tech file in the web gui email it and they are good about troubleshooting with you. If u have specific questions I didn't answer let me know. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID John Scrivner j...@mvn.net wrote: Could you share details about Wavion? How many customers on an AP? Is it omni or secotor? MIMO? Do they have AP and client devices? Longest customer link? Latency results average/max/min on longest shot? Do they only use plain vanilla Wifi or some scheduled TDMA variant (like UBNT AirMAX or Proxim WARP or old Karlnet stuff)? Max raw TCP throughput per sector? How many deployments? Anything like this would be very valuable. I liked to hearing about all Wavion was supposed to be able to do when I saw them at a show but I am always hesitant to believe anything that is pure Wifi can be a real outdoor delivery platform. Very interested to hear your results about this device. Thank you, Scriv On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 6:29 AM, Tyson Shreeves ty...@wigi.us wrote: We have had good luck with a couple of wavion AP's. They can b a little pricey though. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Huawei? Canadian WISP is doing 3.5 GHz with their stuff. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Jan 26, 2013 12:31 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: There's Cambium, WiFi, LTE and WiMAX that I can think of. Alvarion has recently come out with a higher capacity AP (LTE?), but I'd consider it to be at the new bar for average. Otherwise, WiMAX and LTE are generally too low of throughput to be useful. I don't think anyone has really enough of a differentiator in the WiFi space to not use UBNT or Mikrotik. UBNT is cheap and generally works. Mikrotik has their whole
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
I'm assuming that since stadiums are a market, these are traditional WiFi, since you can't very well plug a USB dongle into a smartphone. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 4:21:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. The specs on the dual band sector are: 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm 5 GHz: 49 dBm Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that should help the range too. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Patrick, Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running 3X3? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with each band 3x3. WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. Yes John, we have client devices, among them: Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It is a really effective little box. There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. I have to check as there may be others. Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have several other patented interference mitigation techniques. Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 feet deep) boxes and feel like tanks. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Tyson Shreeves Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:20 PM To: j...@mvn.net ; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? We have 3 omni wbs2400 deployed currently and our original reason for trying wavion was the amount of clients we wanted to connect to a single ap. The most we had was 110 clients at one time, but we noticed some performance issues at around 80-90 clients. The model mentioned is BG only not N. Clients connected were roughly 2/3 legacy ubiquiti and 1/3 newer ubnt dual mimo on it. Customers speeds set from 512k to 5Mb. They use something called beam forming I believe that supposedly just enables it to penetrate or go around obstacles more efficiently and I think for an omni (which I usually hate) it gets a solid 5-7 miles near line of sight. The new ones they have are BGN and can dual band(2.4 5.8) and supposedly can handle double the amount of clients. And another plus is the few times we have had issues all ive done is create a tech file in the web gui email it and they are good about troubleshooting with you. If u have specific questions I didn't answer let me know. Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID John Scrivner
Re: [WISPA] Test Ping
Time=4862ms ttl=42 Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Jan 27, 2013 2:57 PM, DJ Anderson d...@shelbybb.com wrote: Reply Sent from my iPad On Jan 27, 2013, at 2:39 PM, ~NGL~ n...@ngl.net wrote: flag.gif If you can read this Thank A Teacher. And if it's in English Thank A Soldier! ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
I'd like more info on these or similar things as well. I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my UBNT CPE? How about the omni antenna plots/patterns? Maybe a 2.4GHz only version? Pricing? -- On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older! Sent from my iPhone On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. The specs on the dual band sector are: 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120H x 16V 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120H x 8V Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm 5 GHz: 49 dBm Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that should help the range too. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Patrick, Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running 3X3? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: WBSn 2450-S which is a single
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
On that same note... is there more info on this webinar? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 1/27/13 6:13 PM, Blair Davis wrote: I'd like more info on these or similar things as well. I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my UBNT CPE? How about the omni antenna plots/patterns? Maybe a 2.4GHz only version? Pricing? -- On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older! Sent from my iPhone On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com mailto:patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. The specs on the dual band sector are: 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm 5 GHz: 49 dBm Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that should help the range too. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Patrick, Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running 3X3? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com mailto:patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with each band 3x3. WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. Yes John, we have client devices, among them: Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It is a really effective little box. There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. I have to check as there may be others. Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have several other patented interference mitigation techniques. Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 feet deep) boxes and feel like tanks. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Tyson Shreeves *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:20 PM *To:* j...@mvn.net mailto:j...@mvn.net; WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? We have 3 omni wbs2400 deployed currently and our original reason for trying wavion was the amount of clients we
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
The 2.4 versions have 3 radios (3x3 MIMO) and can come in single sector or 3 diagonally-opposed omni options. UBNT CPE connect to it just fine. I'll be on a big road trip this week, but I'll send you some pricing examples offlist tomorrow or Tuesday evening. Anyone else interested hit me OFFLIST and I'll do the same. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? I'd like more info on these or similar things as well. I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my UBNT CPE? How about the omni antenna plots/patterns? Maybe a 2.4GHz only version? Pricing? -- On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older! Sent from my iPhone On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. The specs on the dual band sector are: 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm 5 GHz: 49 dBm Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that should help the range too. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Patrick, Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running 3X3? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with each band 3x3. WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. Yes John, we have client devices, among them: Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It is a really effective little box.
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
A lot more and two engineers to answer questions, one of them owned his own Canopy-based WISP for years. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:14 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? On that same note... is there more info on this webinar? Matt Hoppes Director of Information Technology Indigo Wireless +1 (570) 723-7312 On 1/27/13 6:13 PM, Blair Davis wrote: I'd like more info on these or similar things as well. I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my UBNT CPE? How about the omni antenna plots/patterns? Maybe a 2.4GHz only version? Pricing? -- On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older! Sent from my iPhone On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com mailto:mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com mailto:patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. The specs on the dual band sector are: 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm 5 GHz: 49 dBm Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that should help the range too. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Patrick, Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running 3X3? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com mailto:patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with each band 3x3. WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. Yes John, we have client devices, among them: Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It is a really effective little box. There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. I have to check as there may be others. Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have several other patented interference mitigation techniques. Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 feet deep) boxes and feel like tanks. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 *From:*wireless-boun...@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
I'm always interested in the next great thing. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:31:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? The 2.4 versions have 3 radios (3x3 MIMO) and can come in single sector or 3 diagonally-opposed omni options. UBNT CPE connect to it just fine. I'll be on a big road trip this week, but I'll send you some pricing examples offlist tomorrow or Tuesday evening. Anyone else interested hit me OFFLIST and I'll do the same. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? I'd like more info on these or similar things as well. I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my UBNT CPE? How about the omni antenna plots/patterns? Maybe a 2.4GHz only version? Pricing? -- On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older! Sent from my iPhone On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. The specs on the dual band sector are: 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm 5 GHz: 49 dBm Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that should help the range too. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [ mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org ] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Patrick, Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running 3X3? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with each band 3x3. WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. Yes John, we have client devices, among them: Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It is a really effective little box. There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. I have to check as there may be others. Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have several other patented interference mitigation techniques. Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 feet
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Thanks. Along with the pricing, please send or link to some documentation... I like the idea of beam-forming for both Tx and Rx. Under the PtP power/gain rules, I suspect that there may be some usability in NLoS. I also suspect that beam-forming may help solve the 'hidden node' problem. Now, I'm thinking of how cool it would be to combine this with AirMax. (not gonna happen, I know. Still cool) -- On 1/27/2013 7:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: The 2.4 versions have 3 radios (3x3 MIMO) and can come in single sector or 3 diagonally-opposed omni options. UBNT CPE connect to it just fine. I'll be on a big road trip this week, but I'll send you some pricing examples offlist tomorrow or Tuesday evening. Anyone else interested hit me OFFLIST and I'll do the same. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? I'd like more info on these or similar things as well. I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my UBNT CPE? How about the omni antenna plots/patterns? Maybe a 2.4GHz only version? Pricing? -- On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older! Sent from my iPhone On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, "Matt Hoppes" mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. The specs on the dual band sector are: 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120H x 16V 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120H x 8V Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm 5 GHz: 49 dBm Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
Am I missing something on these radios or are they not TDMA based? If they are only CSMA I don't see anyway you can get the advertised client load on without massive issues - beam forming or not. I was really hoping this would be a carrier class base station. These look more like wifi hotspot devices. Sent from my iPad On Jan 27, 2013, at 19:31, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: The 2.4 versions have 3 radios (3x3 MIMO) and can come in single sector or 3 diagonally-opposed omni options. UBNT CPE connect to it just fine. I'll be on a big road trip this week, but I'll send you some pricing examples offlist tomorrow or Tuesday evening. Anyone else interested hit me OFFLIST and I'll do the same. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? I'd like more info on these or similar things as well. I assume they connect to B/G/N CPE? I don't have to replace all my UBNT CPE? How about the omni antenna plots/patterns? Maybe a 2.4GHz only version? Pricing? -- On 1/26/2013 8:31 PM, Patrick Leary wrote: Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older! Sent from my iPhone On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. The specs on the dual band sector are: 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm 5 GHz: 49 dBm Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that should help the range too. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? Patrick, Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running 3X3? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with each band 3x3. WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. Yes John, we have client devices, among them: Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It is a really effective little box. There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. I have to check as there may be others. Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have several other patented interference mitigation techniques. Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 series
Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives?
How's my favorite Evangelist Patrick? Long time not talk. Marco Coelho Argon On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.comwrote: I thought AF was just a Motoer Cambium thing. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 26, 2013, at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Will it be at AF? ISP America? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Jan 26, 2013 8:32 PM, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: Feb 12 there will be a WISPA hosted webinar on the 2450 series. Nothing like VL. No throttling barriers. Indoor CPE sub $50, outdoor CPE sub $150. ...This is not the old Alvarion, though I'm feeling a lot older! Sent from my iPhone On Jan 26, 2013, at 5:36 PM, Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com wrote: So when can more information about these devices be had? Is the licensing going to be similar to the VL equipment from yester-year? Or are they wide open and you get what you buy? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:21, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: I actually do not know yet. The 2450 are new and different from the previous ones in terms of some of the hardware (filters and such), so I don't yet have North American anecdotal examples. Most international examples are not WISP-based I understand, using omni versions for apps like smart cities, indoor coverage from outside, stadiums, etc. The WISP market is a big reason why we are doing the sector versions. ** ** The specs on the dual band sector are: 2.4 GHz: HGDP, 12dBi, 120ºH x 16ºV 5 GHz: HGDP, 14dBi, 120ºH x 8ºV ** ** Effective directed EIRP totals are high because they meet the PTP FCC requirements because of the adaptive beamforming: 2.4 GHz: 48 dBm 5 GHz: 49 dBm ** ** Those of you smarter than I can probably do the math then to get an idea of range at various heights. The one example I know from a trusted source (my engineer) is his getting stable 20mbps with the USB device one mile away from his house with the BTS mounted on the railing of his 2nd story porch. I am not sure of his LOS or NLOS condition, but I should assume mostly LOS to be safe. The beamforming is bi-directional from the CPE up as well, so that should help the range too. ** ** Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 ** ** *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.orgwireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2013 5:12 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? ** ** Patrick, Out of curiosity what kind of distance can you get from the tower running 3X3? Sent from my iPad On Jan 26, 2013, at 17:07, Patrick Leary patrick.le...@alvarion.com wrote: Thanks for the details Tyson. You are right, that version is the legacy b/g version with 3 omnis diagonally opposed. That has 450 mbps aggregate (obviously in top modulation). The new 2450 series are N-based and feature 6 radios. Both the 2.4 and the 5GHz side are 3x3 MIMO. The versions include: WBSn 2450-S which is a single dual band sector in 120 degrees with 6 antenna elements. I can get you exact H/V details if you want. WBSn 2450-O which has three diagonally-opposed dual band omnis, again with each band 3x3. WBSn 2450-SO comes with a single 5 GHz 3x3 120 sector and 3 diagonally-opposed 2.4 omnis. Yes John, we have client devices, among them: Dual Zone Indoor AP. It also beamforms and it is basically a very small form factor repeater that picks up the outdoor signal and re-broadcasts indoor. It is a really effective little box. There is an outdoor CPE as you would expect. There is also a USB version CPE as well as a desk mount. I have to check as there may be others. Max associations on BTSs are 512. All deliver 900 mbps aggregate. They all do beam adaptive beamforming, which means the antennas target all the energy to each client and does this on a per packet decision basis. This helps considerably with interference mitigation. The radios also have several other patented interference mitigation techniques. Alvarion improved upon the performance of these radios as well and the 2450 series are the result. All are IP68 (complete submersion down to 3 feet deep) boxes and feel like tanks. Patrick Leary Alvarion 727.501.3735 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.orgwireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Tyson Shreeves *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:20 PM *To:* j...@mvn.net; WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] High Capacity AP alternatives? We have 3 omni wbs2400 deployed currently and our original reason for trying wavion was the
