RE: [WISPA] VOIP Suggestions
A few thoughts... :-) If you are going to roll it out on your own, there are open source products that is the easiest way to get started and will realistically handle your first 300-500 users (depending on call ratios). This is a good entry point for an ISP that is focusing on residential accounts. As you scale, using a true proxy (open source such as SER or a commercial product) will be needed. Depending on what you have budgeted to kick off your voip project, your time may be worth skipping the opensource route and looking to outsource or purchase a canned solution. Keep in mind that if you start this yourself, you need to make sure that VoIP is going to be a major piece of your business. If you think the FCC filing for a WISP is a pain, wait until you see what the FCC throws you as an interconnected VoIP provider. Additionally, you must make provisions for e911 services, and negotiate origination/termination agreements if you are not going to be facilities based. When we started a little over two years ago, the tier 1 vendors wouldn't even pay attention to us until we passed the 4 million minute per month mark. I have seen many startup ITSPs that spent way too much time negotiating fractions of a cent on origination/termination costs while neglecting things that mattered more at that point. It is important that you utilize the highest quality routes you have available. Saving a half a cent a minute doesn't mean that much to a VoIP provider if your minutes are not that great to begin with. If you are not facilities based, and you cannot work directly with a Teir 1 provider, make sure you understand how the traffic is routed once it hits your provider. A simple traceroute to a providers proxy means nothing. Focus on quality termination for your clients, once your volume is up, negotiate further discounts. When it comes to termination/origination, you get what you pay for as a startup bidding the business out to the lowest cost per minute provider. A few questions for you: - Are you looking to roll VoIP out to residential or business clients - What regions are you looking to offer VoIP in. If you have the NPA-NXX it would be helpful - What equipment (if any) have you already purchased for this project - Have you put together any pricing models are do you have an idea what your local market will accept? _ Don Annas 336.510.3800 x111 336.510.3801 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.TriadTelecom.com _ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Niemantsverdriet Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 9:33 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] VOIP Suggestions We are looking to start offering VOIP to our customers. What are your suggestions to get started? Roll our own? Resell somebody elses? Also what things should I avoid, or common mistakes? Thanks for any advice you can give. _ /-\ ndrew -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.2/692 - Release Date: 2/18/2007 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.2/692 - Release Date: 2/18/2007 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VOIP Suggestions
Andrew Niemantsverdriet wrote: We are looking to start offering VOIP to our customers. What are your suggestions to get started? Roll our own? Resell somebody elses? Also what things should I avoid, or common mistakes? Thanks for any advice you can give. _ /-\ ndrew It depends on whether you are selling to Resi or Biz. Due to E-911, LNP and call quality, you may want to partner with a local CLEC. (LNP is the ability to port the customer's number, so that they can keep it with you. No one wants to give up their phone number). Why partner? PRI inter-connect to the PSTN will provide you with great call quality for your clients. The less time your call is on the Internet, the better the quality. (You can control call quality on your network). Most ISP's won't see more than 500 customers unless they have 5000 BB customers now - and want to hump on selling it. Boingo just announced a $7.95 wi-fi VoIP offering, so Resi voice is getting close to zero (Skype now costs a few dollars per year). White label is better because YOU don't have to become a VOIP expert, just a VoIP installer and marketer. Even with 300 clients, you will be spending a great deal of time keeping the voice rolling - the Asterisk box running, the LNP, e-911, 411, billing, O/T, etc. It depends on your commitment to the project. And how will you market it? Upsell is usually between 5-10%. VZ is blowing millions in advertising on FiOS to get a take rate they say is 12-15% (depending on the report). Just a few thoughts for you. I can certainly take you through a decision tree to help you find out what is best suited for you right now and help you plan for growth. Thank you. Regards, Peter Radizeski RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist We Help ISPs Connect Communicate 813.963.5884 http://www.marketingIDEAguy.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VOIP Suggestions
Thanks for the reply Don, To answer your questions: 1. We are looking at offering service to mostly residential customers but some small business users have expressed interest. I doubt we will do any of our large business customers until we get everything working. 2. The regions that I am looking at are: 406 628 and then the Billings MT region, these two initially 3. No pricing models yet but judging by competitors $20-$40 / month for residential is the going rate. This is an all you can eat type plan. We are hoping to fall in the middle at $30/month but that is all subject to change. I do have some experience with Asterisk (we also build PBX's for business) but I am not sure that is what I want. It seems hard to scale. We have not purchased anything yet in terms of hardware. We do have some parts and pieces laying around as replacement parts for any of our installed PBX's but most of those are just Digium TDM400p with FXO modules but I don't think 4 phone lines is going to get us very far :) So ideally I want something that can sit in our NOC and do the job, but outsourcing might be the best choice for ease of maintenance. I can control the traffic all the way to our NOC so I can ensure good QoS at least to there. Our NOC is located at a Tier 2 provider. We have tried to partner with them but they said they won't be ready until this summer. A year ago they said it would be summer 2006. So basically I am not holding my breath. On 2/19/07, Don Annas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few thoughts... :-) If you are going to roll it out on your own, there are open source products that is the easiest way to get started and will realistically handle your first 300-500 users (depending on call ratios). This is a good entry point for an ISP that is focusing on residential accounts. As you scale, using a true proxy (open source such as SER or a commercial product) will be needed. Depending on what you have budgeted to kick off your voip project, your time may be worth skipping the opensource route and looking to outsource or purchase a canned solution. Keep in mind that if you start this yourself, you need to make sure that VoIP is going to be a major piece of your business. If you think the FCC filing for a WISP is a pain, wait until you see what the FCC throws you as an interconnected VoIP provider. Additionally, you must make provisions for e911 services, and negotiate origination/termination agreements if you are not going to be facilities based. When we started a little over two years ago, the tier 1 vendors wouldn't even pay attention to us until we passed the 4 million minute per month mark. I have seen many startup ITSPs that spent way too much time negotiating fractions of a cent on origination/termination costs while neglecting things that mattered more at that point. It is important that you utilize the highest quality routes you have available. Saving a half a cent a minute doesn't mean that much to a VoIP provider if your minutes are not that great to begin with. If you are not facilities based, and you cannot work directly with a Teir 1 provider, make sure you understand how the traffic is routed once it hits your provider. A simple traceroute to a providers proxy means nothing. Focus on quality termination for your clients, once your volume is up, negotiate further discounts. When it comes to termination/origination, you get what you pay for as a startup bidding the business out to the lowest cost per minute provider. A few questions for you: - Are you looking to roll VoIP out to residential or business clients - What regions are you looking to offer VoIP in. If you have the NPA-NXX it would be helpful - What equipment (if any) have you already purchased for this project - Have you put together any pricing models are do you have an idea what your local market will accept? _ Don Annas 336.510.3800 x111 336.510.3801 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.TriadTelecom.com _ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Niemantsverdriet Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 9:33 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] VOIP Suggestions We are looking to start offering VOIP to our customers. What are your suggestions to get started? Roll our own? Resell somebody elses? Also what things should I avoid, or common mistakes? Thanks for any advice you can give. _ /-\ ndrew -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.2/692 - Release Date: 2/18/2007 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.2/692 - Release Date: 2/18/2007 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
RE: [WISPA] VOIP Suggestions
Do you have any CLECs in your market that understand the LNP game (such as Telcove or TWTelecom)? If Telcove is in the area, then starting out facilities based would be very easy as they have worked very closely w/ Vonage and other ITSPs and understand the VoIP service provider market. Otherwise, you will want to look at someone who has a directly relationship with a provider such as legacy Level 3 that can provide your originating DIDs. I would probably look at bringing in the lowest cost PRI that you can find for local termination (not originating any numbers on that unless it is with telcove). You will find that most of your traffic is local calls and it doesn't make since to pay per minute when you can just dump them on a local PRI. All of your LD and inbound would be originated/terminate via SIP in this model by interfacing with a provider that has Teir one agreements. I will be happy to discuss pricing with you off list if you would like to look at Triad Telecom for that. Non facilities based origination in your market is a littler pricier as most of the regions fall into 2nd and 3rd bands as far as origination pricing per minute. Here is what I see. Your most economical locations to service from an origination standpoint will be: BILLINGS BRIDGER COLUMBUS FROMBERG HARDIN JOLIET LAUREL RED LODGE Since this is mostly residential, you could easily service these areas and maintain a very profitable cost model: BELGRADE BOZEMAN BUTTE CLYDE PARK COLSTRIP COOKE CITY CUT BANK DILLON GALLATIN GATEWAY GARDINER GLENDIVE GREAT FALLS HELENA LEWISTOWN LIVINGSTON MANHATTAN MILES CITY MISSOULA SHELBY SIDNEY THREE FORKS WEST YELLOWSTONE WILSALL May I ask who your current IP provider is. Also, do you have an IP that I might be able to trace too? Thanks. - Don -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Niemantsverdriet Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] VOIP Suggestions Thanks for the reply Don, To answer your questions: 1. We are looking at offering service to mostly residential customers but some small business users have expressed interest. I doubt we will do any of our large business customers until we get everything working. 2. The regions that I am looking at are: 406 628 and then the Billings MT region, these two initially 3. No pricing models yet but judging by competitors $20-$40 / month for residential is the going rate. This is an all you can eat type plan. We are hoping to fall in the middle at $30/month but that is all subject to change. I do have some experience with Asterisk (we also build PBX's for business) but I am not sure that is what I want. It seems hard to scale. We have not purchased anything yet in terms of hardware. We do have some parts and pieces laying around as replacement parts for any of our installed PBX's but most of those are just Digium TDM400p with FXO modules but I don't think 4 phone lines is going to get us very far :) So ideally I want something that can sit in our NOC and do the job, but outsourcing might be the best choice for ease of maintenance. I can control the traffic all the way to our NOC so I can ensure good QoS at least to there. Our NOC is located at a Tier 2 provider. We have tried to partner with them but they said they won't be ready until this summer. A year ago they said it would be summer 2006. So basically I am not holding my breath. On 2/19/07, Don Annas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few thoughts... :-) If you are going to roll it out on your own, there are open source products that is the easiest way to get started and will realistically handle your first 300-500 users (depending on call ratios). This is a good entry point for an ISP that is focusing on residential accounts. As you scale, using a true proxy (open source such as SER or a commercial product) will be needed. Depending on what you have budgeted to kick off your voip project, your time may be worth skipping the opensource route and looking to outsource or purchase a canned solution. Keep in mind that if you start this yourself, you need to make sure that VoIP is going to be a major piece of your business. If you think the FCC filing for a WISP is a pain, wait until you see what the FCC throws you as an interconnected VoIP provider. Additionally, you must make provisions for e911 services, and negotiate origination/termination agreements if you are not going to be facilities based. When we started a little over two years ago, the tier 1 vendors wouldn't even pay attention to us until we passed the 4 million minute per month mark. I have seen many startup ITSPs that spent way too much time negotiating fractions of a cent on origination/termination costs while neglecting things that mattered more at that point. It is important that you utilize the highest quality routes you have available. Saving a half a cent a minute doesn't mean
