Re: [SPAM] [WISPA] A new tower for WISP and Cell Carrier?
First of all just because you don't have a signal does not mean a cell carrier is waiting for you to put up a tower but that said I built a 120' Commercial tower back 3 years ago and total cost to build was around 50k. That was a tower to support cell and two way radio at 90mph wind load. I think most cell carriers are asking for 105mph load now days. I guess what I'm saying is I would build the tower you need for the wireless if you need it now. just a FYI I have 2 towers that are Cell phone ready in North Georgia for over 3 years now and no cell carriers in fact at one site a giant tower company built a tower 1/4 mile down the road and it has 4 carriers on it now and I never got a call and all my calls to the carriers went un answered. Frank - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 11:19 AM Subject: [SPAM] [WISPA] A new tower for WISP and Cell Carrier? I've got a remote rural location where we're thinking of putting up a 100' tower on a mountain owned by a large customer. Turns out that location can see one of our existing networks, which is great. However, the customer has extremely poor (or non-existent) cell phone coverage and would like to use this as an opportunity to possibly support a cell phone carrier-and they are willing to pay for the tower if it's not 'excessively' expensive to do so. Now, I've got no experience putting up towers, though with the work I'd done for past potential towers, I've been estimating maybe $15K in costs for a tower that only needs to support a WISP (counting the cost of the tower, a local tower company to erect it, and zoning fees. If this is off base, I'm open to comments here too). Of course, I know even less about what a cell company might be expected to need than I do about tower construction. Can anyone give me reasonable budget numbers for a 100' tower that could support (from a loading standpoint) both a WISP (using, say, 3 120 degree sectors and a 3' back haul dish) and a cell company? If there's not enough information, just a reasonable estimate and the basis for it might help to decide if this is worth pursuing. If you're a vendor, please feel free to contact me (via email) off list. Thanks! Chuck -- --- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 x108 Tell me not, in mournful numbers, Life is but an empty dream! For the soul is dead that slumbers, And things are not what they seem. A Psalm of Life, Longfellow -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [SPAM] [WISPA] A new tower for WISP and Cell Carrier?
At 11:43 AM -0400 3/14/07, Frank Watts wrote: First of all just because you don't have a signal does not mean a cell carrier is waiting for you to put up a tower but that said I built a 120' Commercial tower back 3 years ago and total cost to build was around 50k. That was a tower to support cell and two way radio at 90mph wind load. I think most cell carriers are asking for 105mph load now days. I guess what I'm saying is I would build the tower you need for the wireless if you need it now. just a FYI I have 2 towers that are Cell phone ready in North Georgia for over 3 years now and no cell carriers in fact at one site a giant tower company built a tower 1/4 mile down the road and it has 4 carriers on it now and I never got a call and all my calls to the carriers went un answered. I suspect this might get a better reception by cell carriers due to the location, but that won't really be my problem so much as the customer's problem to solve (if they go down this path). However, I do know that often cell phone companies work with brokers who scout out sites for them and make recommendations. That helps since you're not trying to communicate with them directly. Chuck -- --- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 x108 Tell me not, in mournful numbers, Life is but an empty dream! For the soul is dead that slumbers, And things are not what they seem. A Psalm of Life, Longfellow -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [SPAM] [WISPA] A new tower for WISP and Cell Carrier?
At 10:53 AM -0500 3/14/07, JohnnyO wrote: 15K seems awful low for a tower on top of a mountain. You can build a 100ft Rohn45/Rohn55 for 15k - on flat / level land where there aren't any major challenges Then again - No Cell carrier I know of would go on such a tower. What kind of tower are you wanting to put up ? Guy'd / Freestanding ? Guy'd in this case. Soil Conditions ? Rocky / Sandy / Loose dirt ? Hard clay ? Hard soil (clay and rock are prevalent in that area, though I don't know about this particular site yet). My previous proposed tower location (which we ended up not needing, at a different site) had easy to work with ground (former farmland on the top of a broad hill). several good points snipped for brevity What I am trying to make you realize is that you'll be looking at anywhere from 40k - 60k to get this done... With a hope and a prayer on picking up a carrier - that's a ton of $$ to throw out there Okay, this is good feedback...and I feel (appropriately) chastised ;-). Putting a tower up at this location is clearly vastly different than what I was looking at doing before. I really appreciate the response (and feel like, if I'd thought about this just a bit more, I should have realized how different this would be). Thanks for the responses! Chuck JohnnyO APGWireless, LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Watts Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [SPAM] [WISPA] A new tower for WISP and Cell Carrier? First of all just because you don't have a signal does not mean a cell carrier is waiting for you to put up a tower but that said I built a 120' Commercial tower back 3 years ago and total cost to build was around 50k. That was a tower to support cell and two way radio at 90mph wind load. I think most cell carriers are asking for 105mph load now days. I guess what I'm saying is I would build the tower you need for the wireless if you need it now. just a FYI I have 2 towers that are Cell phone ready in North Georgia for over 3 years now and no cell carriers in fact at one site a giant tower company built a tower 1/4 mile down the road and it has 4 carriers on it now and I never got a call and all my calls to the carriers went un answered. Frank - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 11:19 AM Subject: [SPAM] [WISPA] A new tower for WISP and Cell Carrier? I've got a remote rural location where we're thinking of putting up a 100' tower on a mountain owned by a large customer. Turns out that location can see one of our existing networks, which is great. However, the customer has extremely poor (or non-existent) cell phone coverage and would like to use this as an opportunity to possibly support a cell phone carrier-and they are willing to pay for the tower if it's not 'excessively' expensive to do so. Now, I've got no experience putting up towers, though with the work I'd done for past potential towers, I've been estimating maybe $15K in costs for a tower that only needs to support a WISP (counting the cost of the tower, a local tower company to erect it, and zoning fees. If this is off base, I'm open to comments here too). Of course, I know even less about what a cell company might be expected to need than I do about tower construction. Can anyone give me reasonable budget numbers for a 100' tower that could support (from a loading standpoint) both a WISP (using, say, 3 120 degree sectors and a 3' back haul dish) and a cell company? If there's not enough information, just a reasonable estimate and the basis for it might help to decide if this is worth pursuing. If you're a vendor, please feel free to contact me (via email) off list. Thanks! Chuck -- --- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 x108 Tell me not, in mournful numbers, Life is but an empty dream! For the soul is dead that slumbers, And things are not what they seem. A Psalm of Life, Longfellow -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.11/721 - Release Date: 3/13/2007 4:51 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- --- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 x108 Tell me not, in
Re: [SPAM] [WISPA] A new tower for WISP and Cell Carrier?
Chuck, My first impression of the situation is that your customer is seeing dollar signs because he has heard cell companies pay big bucks to locate on towers but does not actually realize all the costs associated with such a tower that a cell company might possibly locate on. I have seen this kind of mentality on numerous occasions. Also, just because there is no cell coverage on a mountain top does not justify the cell companies locating anything there. As others have pointed out if it is a good location for you then you should just put up something for your equipment and leave it at that. Just my thought. Regards, Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:43 AM -0400 3/14/07, Frank Watts wrote: First of all just because you don't have a signal does not mean a cell carrier is waiting for you to put up a tower but that said I built a 120' Commercial tower back 3 years ago and total cost to build was around 50k. That was a tower to support cell and two way radio at 90mph wind load. I think most cell carriers are asking for 105mph load now days. I guess what I'm saying is I would build the tower you need for the wireless if you need it now. just a FYI I have 2 towers that are Cell phone ready in North Georgia for over 3 years now and no cell carriers in fact at one site a giant tower company built a tower 1/4 mile down the road and it has 4 carriers on it now and I never got a call and all my calls to the carriers went un answered. I suspect this might get a better reception by cell carriers due to the location, but that won't really be my problem so much as the customer's problem to solve (if they go down this path). However, I do know that often cell phone companies work with brokers who scout out sites for them and make recommendations. That helps since you're not trying to communicate with them directly. Chuck -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [SPAM] [WISPA] A new tower for WISP and Cell Carrier?
Cell carriers normally use site acquisition people, contract most of the time. Not brokers. Another thing that prevents them often from considering smaller companies towers is agreements they have with the larger companies. As an example, we have agreements with two carriers - flat rate prices, for up to X number of towers. When the site acq people need a site and it is between me and someone that they do not have an agreement, they will call me. Up in NY right now, you have General Dynamics building out the new statewide wireless program, (SWN) and they are looking at LOTS of spots. LOTS of spots. We have them going on a number of sites, including fairly close to you. Time to jump is now - they are working the state from west to east, and I assure you they are already doing the Stueban county area, just to the west. As an aside, SIGN the sites! Even if you don't have a tower, hang a sign on the fence WIRELESS TOWER SITE AVAILABLE. Too often it comes down to the site acq guy climbing over the fence, knocking on doors, etc. Also one may want to get FAA clearance on the site. This puts the site in the FAA database, one more tool that the site acq guys use. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Frank Watts [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [SPAM] [WISPA] A new tower for WISP and Cell Carrier? At 11:43 AM -0400 3/14/07, Frank Watts wrote: First of all just because you don't have a signal does not mean a cell carrier is waiting for you to put up a tower but that said I built a 120' Commercial tower back 3 years ago and total cost to build was around 50k. That was a tower to support cell and two way radio at 90mph wind load. I think most cell carriers are asking for 105mph load now days. I guess what I'm saying is I would build the tower you need for the wireless if you need it now. just a FYI I have 2 towers that are Cell phone ready in North Georgia for over 3 years now and no cell carriers in fact at one site a giant tower company built a tower 1/4 mile down the road and it has 4 carriers on it now and I never got a call and all my calls to the carriers went un answered. I suspect this might get a better reception by cell carriers due to the location, but that won't really be my problem so much as the customer's problem to solve (if they go down this path). However, I do know that often cell phone companies work with brokers who scout out sites for them and make recommendations. That helps since you're not trying to communicate with them directly. Chuck -- --- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 x108 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [SPAM] [WISPA] A new tower for WISP and Cell Carrier?
At 12:35 PM -0400 3/14/07, Dawn DiPietro wrote: Chuck, My first impression of the situation is that your customer is seeing dollar signs because he has heard cell companies pay big bucks to locate on towers but does not actually realize all the costs associated with such a tower that a cell company might possibly locate on. I think that's likely to be an accurate assessment. They do need the cell coverage in the area...but I suspect the driver might be the dollar signs (not from anything I told them though). There is a reasonably sized small town that would be served by this if cell coverage did come though. Chuck I have seen this kind of mentality on numerous occasions. Also, just because there is no cell coverage on a mountain top does not justify the cell companies locating anything there. As others have pointed out if it is a good location for you then you should just put up something for your equipment and leave it at that. Just my thought. Regards, Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:43 AM -0400 3/14/07, Frank Watts wrote: First of all just because you don't have a signal does not mean a cell carrier is waiting for you to put up a tower but that said I built a 120' Commercial tower back 3 years ago and total cost to build was around 50k. That was a tower to support cell and two way radio at 90mph wind load. I think most cell carriers are asking for 105mph load now days. I guess what I'm saying is I would build the tower you need for the wireless if you need it now. just a FYI I have 2 towers that are Cell phone ready in North Georgia for over 3 years now and no cell carriers in fact at one site a giant tower company built a tower 1/4 mile down the road and it has 4 carriers on it now and I never got a call and all my calls to the carriers went un answered. I suspect this might get a better reception by cell carriers due to the location, but that won't really be my problem so much as the customer's problem to solve (if they go down this path). However, I do know that often cell phone companies work with brokers who scout out sites for them and make recommendations. That helps since you're not trying to communicate with them directly. Chuck -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- --- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 x108 Tell me not, in mournful numbers, Life is but an empty dream! For the soul is dead that slumbers, And things are not what they seem. A Psalm of Life, Longfellow -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [SPAM] [WISPA] A new tower for WISP and Cell Carrier?
At 12:03 PM -0500 3/14/07, Blake Bowers wrote: Cell carriers normally use site acquisition people, contract most of the time. Not brokers. I used the wrong term (not being in the business). That's essentially what I meant. I've come across the site acq. people before. Another thing that prevents them often from considering smaller companies towers is agreements they have with the larger companies. As an example, we have agreements with two carriers - flat rate prices, for up to X number of towers. When the site acq people need a site and it is between me and someone that they do not have an agreement, they will call me. Up in NY right now, you have General Dynamics building out the new statewide wireless program, (SWN) and they are looking at LOTS of spots. LOTS of spots. We have them going on a number of sites, including fairly close to you. Time to jump is now - they are working the state from west to east, and I assure you they are already doing the Stueban county area, just to the west. As an aside, SIGN the sites! Even if you don't have a tower, hang a sign on the fence WIRELESS TOWER SITE AVAILABLE. Too often it comes down to the site acq guy climbing over the fence, knocking on doors, etc. Also one may want to get FAA clearance on the site. This puts the site in the FAA database, one more tool that the site acq guys use. Great ideas! Thanks! Chuck -- --- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 x108 Tell me not, in mournful numbers, Life is but an empty dream! For the soul is dead that slumbers, And things are not what they seem. A Psalm of Life, Longfellow -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
