Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison-
Regarding Saf technika All-ODU, thought it was interesting to note the following from the spec sheet a.. Jumbo frame size supports up to 9728 bytes, which allows using longer header info (VLAN, MPLS) and transmitting more useful content and less headers, thus gaining on total throughput. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison-
had to revise my methodology, (or inject specific brand switches inline to avoid the incompatibilty). Dragonwave comes in many different configurations, whether its A MIL conn, 1 port versus two, with fiber option or not, etc, so it can be more confusing selecting the right part number. With Trango its one model that can be used for any of its various user configurations. There will be some that analyze the Firmware features to death, and will swear to teh advantages of one Brand over the other becaues of how that advanced feature works. But to me, none of that really matters. They are both are extremely capable and mature products, where to me it comes down to teh link budget, and the total cost to acheive that, after considering all above that I mentioned. It might also be afactor of whether you want to have the distribution channel in the loop or not. Distributors often ease with replacement parts availabilty, leasing programs, and License processing. Dragonwave offers that. IF you dont need that, efficiencies can be acheived because you work direct with Trango's fine staff. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com To: lp...@essex1.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison- The one I have up works fine. There are quirks in the firmware, but no show-stoppers. Inband management is still a work in progress. Don't particularly care for the fiber port cover design, but if you're using copper, it's fine (unless you use extra-large / heavy ethernet that may not fit). Randy On 2/11/2010 4:28 PM, Luke Pack wrote: We have quite a few Dragon wave 11Ghz links deployed right now. We are looking at another path of 11Ghz now and have come across the apex system by Trango. We use the Trangolink45s on many links off the licensed path currently. I'm looking for people's real-world experience with the Trango Apex system (since they are relatively new) and a contrast of this system to the Horizon Compacts from Dragonwave. I know their implementation is similar to that of the horizon units however, what seems to be the Apex failure rate, software features, hitless adaptive modulation success, etc. Thanks all! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison-
I second 3-db as a good supplier. The Saf Technika looked real promising. But it should be noted that many of the third party Split Architecture brands are limited to less output power than both Trango Giga and Dragonwave HP versions. Many of them are sub 15dbm at full modulation, but obviously that should be confirmed for the manufacturer product that is being considered. That may or may not be relevent for the job's link budget. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 1:04 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison- Tehnika. I also would have to suggest 3db. You just turn to them when you need something and you get it. On 2/12/10, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: Luke, You might also want to take a look at the SAF Teknica (sp?) 11Ghz links. I think there are a couple distributors who sell them now, including 3-db.net. They are very big in Europe and many other countries, and I believe a couple people on the list have some and are quite happy with them. If I recall correctly, 3-db was also offering some extended warranties on them that were pretty crazy good. Ligowave has a new 11ghz unit out too, their second attempt in the licensed space. They are split-units though, and I'll be waiting until I hear from other guinea pigs before I order one. I was disappointed last time around when they didn't ship after waiting way too long. Randy On 2/11/2010 4:28 PM, Luke Pack wrote: We have quite a few Dragon wave 11Ghz links deployed right now. We are looking at another path of 11Ghz now and have come across the apex system by Trango. We use the Trangolink45s on many links off the licensed path currently. I'm looking for people's real-world experience with the Trango Apex system (since they are relatively new) and a contrast of this system to the Horizon Compacts from Dragonwave. I know their implementation is similar to that of the horizon units however, what seems to be the Apex failure rate, software features, hitless adaptive modulation success, etc. Thanks all! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison-
He said, Dragonwave did it right by having both ports next to one another and on a plane of the unit that is free and clear of obstruction. Unless you are mounting to a pre-existing wall mount mast that is very short depth from the wall, and radio below roof line. In that situation, Trango fit beautifully, and Dragonwave didn't. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Steven G McGehee stev...@qx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison- I agree with Randy, definitely some quirks in the firmware, although I've been told by them that v1.23 is in the works. In terms of actual performance, assuming a solid deployment, etc., the Apexes work great. We have several DW in 11Ghz as well, which in comparison have given us zero problem. But, the Apexes are a lot cheaper and if they didn't have a quirky firmware and some hardware design issues, I'd come extremely close to considering them as solid as a Dragonwave. ..and by hardware design issues, I just really disliked the placement of the ports. If you're running direct power or using fiber, the ports are a real pain to get to. They're covered up by the same grommet/weathering as the Atlas/T-Link45 bridges, but the spacing is /really/ tight to try to get anything larger than a 16 awg power cable in, much less that and fiber. It uses the same type of molex power-plug that the Bridgewaves do, but it's much harder to get plugged in. Additionally, the Data and Management (copper) ports are at a 90 degree angle to one another on the actual unit, so one faces down, and the other faces left or right, depending on how you have it attached to the antenna. How you rotate the Apex determines its polarity (like a BW, etc), but due to the hardware design and having a port facing left or right, this means that it's impossible to plug into said port when you're mounting it in such a way that this port faces your mast, because the weathering piece (same type as the DWs come with) is too large. Dragonwave did it right by having both ports next to one another and on a plane of the unit that is free and clear of obstruction. Hope that helps -- bottomline, these work great but they still do need some important firmware tweaks and can be a pain during install. If you can get by with that, give them a serious look. Overall, we've been happy with our 4 pairs. Thanks. Randy Cosby wrote: The one I have up works fine. There are quirks in the firmware, but no show-stoppers. Inband management is still a work in progress. Don't particularly care for the fiber port cover design, but if you're using copper, it's fine (unless you use extra-large / heavy ethernet that may not fit). Randy On 2/11/2010 4:28 PM, Luke Pack wrote: We have quite a few Dragon wave 11Ghz links deployed right now. We are looking at another path of 11Ghz now and have come across the apex system by Trango. We use the Trangolink45s on many links off the licensed path currently. I'm looking for people's real-world experience with the Trango Apex system (since they are relatively new) and a contrast of this system to the Horizon Compacts from Dragonwave. I know their implementation is similar to that of the horizon units however, what seems to be the Apex failure rate, software features, hitless adaptive modulation success, etc. Thanks all! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison-
The one I have up works fine. There are quirks in the firmware, but no show-stoppers. Inband management is still a work in progress. Don't particularly care for the fiber port cover design, but if you're using copper, it's fine (unless you use extra-large / heavy ethernet that may not fit). Randy On 2/11/2010 4:28 PM, Luke Pack wrote: We have quite a few Dragon wave 11Ghz links deployed right now. We are looking at another path of 11Ghz now and have come across the apex system by Trango. We use the Trangolink45s on many links off the licensed path currently. I'm looking for people's real-world experience with the Trango Apex system (since they are relatively new) and a contrast of this system to the Horizon Compacts from Dragonwave. I know their implementation is similar to that of the horizon units however, what seems to be the Apex failure rate, software features, hitless adaptive modulation success, etc. Thanks all! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison-
Randy makes a couple points that I concur with. The Apex fiber weather port is for the birds (IMO), but we like that Trango opted for a SFP port rather than forcing you to choose Single-Mode or Multi-Mode at the time of order like BridgeWave does. Ethernet weather ports work OK, but again not optimal as they should have been designed to allow for a larger diameter outdoor CAT5 cable. We haven't used the in-band management option as most if not all our PtP paths have multiple feeds that allow us out-of-band management access to the radios. Trango GigaLINK reliability has been great. We have Giga 11GHz serial numbers 0001, 0002, 0005, 0007 among other early units in a variety of frequencies. All have performed very well. In the few cases where we have needed support Trango has been extremely responsive. The Apex units have also (for the most part) been good. We had an unusual cable length (within spec) issue with an Apex radio that we couldn't resolve other than to move the DC injector closer to the radio. A nice feature of the Apex is it allows you to use the fiber port on one side and the copper port on the other side of a path. This is useful if the cable run length on one side requires fiber, but the other side doesn't. The Apex hitless modulation functionality appears to work well, however with ATPC and a properly engineered path we rarely if ever see our Apex paths change modulation. If you plan to push the RF limits of a path I would feel comfortable with the Trango Apex hitless modulation working as advertised. Luke, I would be happy to spend some time on the phone with you discussing in greater detail. I'd like to bend your ear a bit on a couple questions I have regarding a DragonWave all ODU radio set we recently inherited. Not sure if we should just punt it on EBay or possibly deploy it. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 5:39 PM To: lp...@essex1.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison- The one I have up works fine. There are quirks in the firmware, but no show-stoppers. Inband management is still a work in progress. Don't particularly care for the fiber port cover design, but if you're using copper, it's fine (unless you use extra-large / heavy ethernet that may not fit). Randy On 2/11/2010 4:28 PM, Luke Pack wrote: We have quite a few Dragon wave 11Ghz links deployed right now. We are looking at another path of 11Ghz now and have come across the apex system by Trango. We use the Trangolink45s on many links off the licensed path currently. I'm looking for people's real-world experience with the Trango Apex system (since they are relatively new) and a contrast of this system to the Horizon Compacts from Dragonwave. I know their implementation is similar to that of the horizon units however, what seems to be the Apex failure rate, software features, hitless adaptive modulation success, etc. Thanks all! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison-
I agree with Randy, definitely some quirks in the firmware, although I've been told by them that v1.23 is in the works. In terms of actual performance, assuming a solid deployment, etc., the Apexes work great. We have several DW in 11Ghz as well, which in comparison have given us zero problem. But, the Apexes are a lot cheaper and if they didn't have a quirky firmware and some hardware design issues, I'd come extremely close to considering them as solid as a Dragonwave. ..and by hardware design issues, I just really disliked the placement of the ports. If you're running direct power or using fiber, the ports are a real pain to get to. They're covered up by the same grommet/weathering as the Atlas/T-Link45 bridges, but the spacing is /really/ tight to try to get anything larger than a 16 awg power cable in, much less that and fiber. It uses the same type of molex power-plug that the Bridgewaves do, but it's much harder to get plugged in. Additionally, the Data and Management (copper) ports are at a 90 degree angle to one another on the actual unit, so one faces down, and the other faces left or right, depending on how you have it attached to the antenna. How you rotate the Apex determines its polarity (like a BW, etc), but due to the hardware design and having a port facing left or right, this means that it's impossible to plug into said port when you're mounting it in such a way that this port faces your mast, because the weathering piece (same type as the DWs come with) is too large. Dragonwave did it right by having both ports next to one another and on a plane of the unit that is free and clear of obstruction. Hope that helps -- bottomline, these work great but they still do need some important firmware tweaks and can be a pain during install. If you can get by with that, give them a serious look. Overall, we've been happy with our 4 pairs. Thanks. Randy Cosby wrote: The one I have up works fine. There are quirks in the firmware, but no show-stoppers. Inband management is still a work in progress. Don't particularly care for the fiber port cover design, but if you're using copper, it's fine (unless you use extra-large / heavy ethernet that may not fit). Randy On 2/11/2010 4:28 PM, Luke Pack wrote: We have quite a few Dragon wave 11Ghz links deployed right now. We are looking at another path of 11Ghz now and have come across the apex system by Trango. We use the Trangolink45s on many links off the licensed path currently. I'm looking for people's real-world experience with the Trango Apex system (since they are relatively new) and a contrast of this system to the Horizon Compacts from Dragonwave. I know their implementation is similar to that of the horizon units however, what seems to be the Apex failure rate, software features, hitless adaptive modulation success, etc. Thanks all! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison-
What is street price on the Trango licensed? Brad Belton wrote: Randy makes a couple points that I concur with. The Apex fiber weather port is for the birds (IMO), but we like that Trango opted for a SFP port rather than forcing you to choose Single-Mode or Multi-Mode at the time of order like BridgeWave does. Ethernet weather ports work OK, but again not optimal as they should have been designed to allow for a larger diameter outdoor CAT5 cable. We haven't used the in-band management option as most if not all our PtP paths have multiple feeds that allow us out-of-band management access to the radios. Trango GigaLINK reliability has been great. We have Giga 11GHz serial numbers 0001, 0002, 0005, 0007 among other early units in a variety of frequencies. All have performed very well. In the few cases where we have needed support Trango has been extremely responsive. The Apex units have also (for the most part) been good. We had an unusual cable length (within spec) issue with an Apex radio that we couldn't resolve other than to move the DC injector closer to the radio. A nice feature of the Apex is it allows you to use the fiber port on one side and the copper port on the other side of a path. This is useful if the cable run length on one side requires fiber, but the other side doesn't. The Apex hitless modulation functionality appears to work well, however with ATPC and a properly engineered path we rarely if ever see our Apex paths change modulation. If you plan to push the RF limits of a path I would feel comfortable with the Trango Apex hitless modulation working as advertised. Luke, I would be happy to spend some time on the phone with you discussing in greater detail. I'd like to bend your ear a bit on a couple questions I have regarding a DragonWave all ODU radio set we recently inherited. Not sure if we should just punt it on EBay or possibly deploy it. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 5:39 PM To: lp...@essex1.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison- The one I have up works fine. There are quirks in the firmware, but no show-stoppers. Inband management is still a work in progress. Don't particularly care for the fiber port cover design, but if you're using copper, it's fine (unless you use extra-large / heavy ethernet that may not fit). Randy On 2/11/2010 4:28 PM, Luke Pack wrote: We have quite a few Dragon wave 11Ghz links deployed right now. We are looking at another path of 11Ghz now and have come across the apex system by Trango. We use the Trangolink45s on many links off the licensed path currently. I'm looking for people's real-world experience with the Trango Apex system (since they are relatively new) and a contrast of this system to the Horizon Compacts from Dragonwave. I know their implementation is similar to that of the horizon units however, what seems to be the Apex failure rate, software features, hitless adaptive modulation success, etc. Thanks all! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison-
$9,995 for 18ghz with 2ft dishes and 100Mbps key. I think upgrade to 360Mbps key is $1,000 or something like that... Travis Bob Moldashel wrote: What is street price on the Trango licensed? Brad Belton wrote: Randy makes a couple points that I concur with. The Apex fiber weather port is for the birds (IMO), but we like that Trango opted for a SFP port rather than forcing you to choose Single-Mode or Multi-Mode at the time of order like BridgeWave does. Ethernet weather ports work OK, but again not optimal as they should have been designed to allow for a larger diameter outdoor CAT5 cable. We haven't used the in-band management option as most if not all our PtP paths have multiple feeds that allow us out-of-band management access to the radios. Trango GigaLINK reliability has been great. We have Giga 11GHz serial numbers 0001, 0002, 0005, 0007 among other early units in a variety of frequencies. All have performed very well. In the few cases where we have needed support Trango has been extremely responsive. The Apex units have also (for the most part) been good. We had an unusual cable length (within spec) issue with an Apex radio that we couldn't resolve other than to move the DC injector closer to the radio. A nice feature of the Apex is it allows you to use the fiber port on one side and the copper port on the other side of a path. This is useful if the cable run length on one side requires fiber, but the other side doesn't. The Apex hitless modulation functionality appears to work well, however with ATPC and a properly engineered path we rarely if ever see our Apex paths change modulation. If you plan to push the RF limits of a path I would feel comfortable with the Trango Apex hitless modulation working as advertised. Luke, I would be happy to spend some time on the phone with you discussing in greater detail. I'd like to bend your ear a bit on a couple questions I have regarding a DragonWave all ODU radio set we recently inherited. Not sure if we should just punt it on EBay or possibly deploy it. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 5:39 PM To: lp...@essex1.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison- The one I have up works fine. There are quirks in the firmware, but no show-stoppers. Inband management is still a work in progress. Don't particularly care for the fiber port cover design, but if you're using copper, it's fine (unless you use extra-large / heavy ethernet that may not fit). Randy On 2/11/2010 4:28 PM, Luke Pack wrote: We have quite a few Dragon wave 11Ghz links deployed right now. We are looking at another path of 11Ghz now and have come across the apex system by Trango. We use the Trangolink45s on many links off the licensed path currently. I'm looking for people's real-world experience with the Trango Apex system (since they are relatively new) and a contrast of this system to the Horizon Compacts from Dragonwave. I know their implementation is similar to that of the horizon units however, what seems to be the Apex failure rate, software features, hitless adaptive modulation success, etc. Thanks all! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison-
Tnx Travis Johnson wrote: $9,995 for 18ghz with 2ft dishes and 100Mbps key. I think upgrade to 360Mbps key is $1,000 or something like that... Travis Bob Moldashel wrote: What is street price on the Trango licensed? Brad Belton wrote: Randy makes a couple points that I concur with. The Apex fiber weather port is for the birds (IMO), but we like that Trango opted for a SFP port rather than forcing you to choose Single-Mode or Multi-Mode at the time of order like BridgeWave does. Ethernet weather ports work OK, but again not optimal as they should have been designed to allow for a larger diameter outdoor CAT5 cable. We haven't used the in-band management option as most if not all our PtP paths have multiple feeds that allow us out-of-band management access to the radios. Trango GigaLINK reliability has been great. We have Giga 11GHz serial numbers 0001, 0002, 0005, 0007 among other early units in a variety of frequencies. All have performed very well. In the few cases where we have needed support Trango has been extremely responsive. The Apex units have also (for the most part) been good. We had an unusual cable length (within spec) issue with an Apex radio that we couldn't resolve other than to move the DC injector closer to the radio. A nice feature of the Apex is it allows you to use the fiber port on one side and the copper port on the other side of a path. This is useful if the cable run length on one side requires fiber, but the other side doesn't. The Apex hitless modulation functionality appears to work well, however with ATPC and a properly engineered path we rarely if ever see our Apex paths change modulation. If you plan to push the RF limits of a path I would feel comfortable with the Trango Apex hitless modulation working as advertised. Luke, I would be happy to spend some time on the phone with you discussing in greater detail. I'd like to bend your ear a bit on a couple questions I have regarding a DragonWave all ODU radio set we recently inherited. Not sure if we should just punt it on EBay or possibly deploy it. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 5:39 PM To: lp...@essex1.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison- The one I have up works fine. There are quirks in the firmware, but no show-stoppers. Inband management is still a work in progress. Don't particularly care for the fiber port cover design, but if you're using copper, it's fine (unless you use extra-large / heavy ethernet that may not fit). Randy On 2/11/2010 4:28 PM, Luke Pack wrote: We have quite a few Dragon wave 11Ghz links deployed right now. We are looking at another path of 11Ghz now and have come across the apex system by Trango. We use the Trangolink45s on many links off the licensed path currently. I'm looking for people's real-world experience with the Trango Apex system (since they are relatively new) and a contrast of this system to the Horizon Compacts from Dragonwave. I know their implementation is similar to that of the horizon units however, what seems to be the Apex failure rate, software features, hitless adaptive modulation success, etc. Thanks all! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless
Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison-
I really appreciate the responses! We have 18 pair of the DWs and they are pretty solid for the most part for us with the exception of 6 returns (one was an immediate return of a return) thus far for failing transmitters. A couple were about 2-3 months after deployment and a few were about 1yr after deployment. On that note, the others have been great. Definitely low latency- time to get from one end of the net to the other traveling over 11 hops (some 5 mi links, some 16+ mi links) is great : [rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 8.709/9.292/9.969/0.343 ms]. I also have one Bridgewave link at 60Ghz and that is great. It has been up for two years and acts like fiber as far as I'm concerned. Another question on the Apex, what kind of dishes are you using for what distance/signal? I assume this would, once again, be similar to DW. Thanks again, On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 20:21 -0500, Steven G McGehee wrote: I agree with Randy, definitely some quirks in the firmware, although I've been told by them that v1.23 is in the works. In terms of actual performance, assuming a solid deployment, etc., the Apexes work great. We have several DW in 11Ghz as well, which in comparison have given us zero problem. But, the Apexes are a lot cheaper and if they didn't have a quirky firmware and some hardware design issues, I'd come extremely close to considering them as solid as a Dragonwave. ..and by hardware design issues, I just really disliked the placement of the ports. If you're running direct power or using fiber, the ports are a real pain to get to. They're covered up by the same grommet/weathering as the Atlas/T-Link45 bridges, but the spacing is /really/ tight to try to get anything larger than a 16 awg power cable in, much less that and fiber. It uses the same type of molex power-plug that the Bridgewaves do, but it's much harder to get plugged in. Additionally, the Data and Management (copper) ports are at a 90 degree angle to one another on the actual unit, so one faces down, and the other faces left or right, depending on how you have it attached to the antenna. How you rotate the Apex determines its polarity (like a BW, etc), but due to the hardware design and having a port facing left or right, this means that it's impossible to plug into said port when you're mounting it in such a way that this port faces your mast, because the weathering piece (same type as the DWs come with) is too large. Dragonwave did it right by having both ports next to one another and on a plane of the unit that is free and clear of obstruction. Hope that helps -- bottomline, these work great but they still do need some important firmware tweaks and can be a pain during install. If you can get by with that, give them a serious look. Overall, we've been happy with our 4 pairs. Thanks. Randy Cosby wrote: The one I have up works fine. There are quirks in the firmware, but no show-stoppers. Inband management is still a work in progress. Don't particularly care for the fiber port cover design, but if you're using copper, it's fine (unless you use extra-large / heavy ethernet that may not fit). Randy On 2/11/2010 4:28 PM, Luke Pack wrote: We have quite a few Dragon wave 11Ghz links deployed right now. We are looking at another path of 11Ghz now and have come across the apex system by Trango. We use the Trangolink45s on many links off the licensed path currently. I'm looking for people's real-world experience with the Trango Apex system (since they are relatively new) and a contrast of this system to the Horizon Compacts from Dragonwave. I know their implementation is similar to that of the horizon units however, what seems to be the Apex failure rate, software features, hitless adaptive modulation success, etc. Thanks all! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison-
Luke, You might also want to take a look at the SAF Teknica (sp?) 11Ghz links. I think there are a couple distributors who sell them now, including 3-db.net. They are very big in Europe and many other countries, and I believe a couple people on the list have some and are quite happy with them. If I recall correctly, 3-db was also offering some extended warranties on them that were pretty crazy good. Ligowave has a new 11ghz unit out too, their second attempt in the licensed space. They are split-units though, and I'll be waiting until I hear from other guinea pigs before I order one. I was disappointed last time around when they didn't ship after waiting way too long. Randy On 2/11/2010 4:28 PM, Luke Pack wrote: We have quite a few Dragon wave 11Ghz links deployed right now. We are looking at another path of 11Ghz now and have come across the apex system by Trango. We use the Trangolink45s on many links off the licensed path currently. I'm looking for people's real-world experience with the Trango Apex system (since they are relatively new) and a contrast of this system to the Horizon Compacts from Dragonwave. I know their implementation is similar to that of the horizon units however, what seems to be the Apex failure rate, software features, hitless adaptive modulation success, etc. Thanks all! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 11Ghz BH comparison-
Tehnika. I also would have to suggest 3db. You just turn to them when you need something and you get it. On 2/12/10, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: Luke, You might also want to take a look at the SAF Teknica (sp?) 11Ghz links. I think there are a couple distributors who sell them now, including 3-db.net. They are very big in Europe and many other countries, and I believe a couple people on the list have some and are quite happy with them. If I recall correctly, 3-db was also offering some extended warranties on them that were pretty crazy good. Ligowave has a new 11ghz unit out too, their second attempt in the licensed space. They are split-units though, and I'll be waiting until I hear from other guinea pigs before I order one. I was disappointed last time around when they didn't ship after waiting way too long. Randy On 2/11/2010 4:28 PM, Luke Pack wrote: We have quite a few Dragon wave 11Ghz links deployed right now. We are looking at another path of 11Ghz now and have come across the apex system by Trango. We use the Trangolink45s on many links off the licensed path currently. I'm looking for people's real-world experience with the Trango Apex system (since they are relatively new) and a contrast of this system to the Horizon Compacts from Dragonwave. I know their implementation is similar to that of the horizon units however, what seems to be the Apex failure rate, software features, hitless adaptive modulation success, etc. Thanks all! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
