Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
* Charles Wyble wrote, On 8/1/2008 11:08 AM: > Leon D. Zetekoff, NCE wrote: >> Charles...As I found out, Appendix D is just ONE way to do those >> calculations. > Can you expand on this a bit? > > Is there another way they should be done? Or are there different > conclusions one can reach by doing them differently (ie you follow the > method in appendix d and the earth station uses some other method to > invalidate your data)? > > Is this something to be concerned about? Hi Charles...from my talks with the WTB folks they indicated that Appendix D was just one way to get there from here so to speak. I do not know if COmsearch et al are using this procedure or something else. Leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
I haven't looked at Appendix D in a while, but I don't think it takes into account topology. Ground works really well at stopping noise. -Matt On Aug 1, 2008, at 11:08 AM, Charles Wyble wrote: > Leon D. Zetekoff, NCE wrote: >> Charles...As I found out, Appendix D is just ONE way to do those >> calculations. >> > > Can you expand on this a bit? > > Is there another way they should be done? Or are there different > conclusions one can reach by doing them differently (ie you follow the > method in appendix d and the earth station uses some other method to > invalidate your data)? > > Is this something to be concerned about? > > Thanks! > > Charles > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by Rapid Link, and is > believed to be clean. > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
Leon D. Zetekoff, NCE wrote: > Charles...As I found out, Appendix D is just ONE way to do those > calculations. > Can you expand on this a bit? Is there another way they should be done? Or are there different conclusions one can reach by doing them differently (ie you follow the method in appendix d and the earth station uses some other method to invalidate your data)? Is this something to be concerned about? Thanks! Charles WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
Charles...As I found out, Appendix D is just ONE way to do those calculations. Leon * Charles Wyble wrote, On 7/31/2008 3:22 PM: > Doug Ratcliffe wrote: > >> I've read your blogs and have been keeping up with them. What I can't seem >> to find is the ULS registrations for the actual earth satellite stations. >> It seems like most other ULS entires, they have a contact address and a >> person's name. >> >> I did a Geosearch of Orange County, FL (the Sprint Communications Orlando, >> FL county) using Frequencies 3500 to 5000mhz (All Service Types), and found >> nothing but a cancelled point to point license for AT&T. >> >> > Check out http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/General_Menu_Reports/filenum.cfm to > search by file number. > > I'm reading over the applications now. Lots of good info which you will > need for base station > placement calculations (try saying that 3 times fast) located appendix > D of the frequency rules document. > I don't know the formal name of that document. > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
Doug Ratcliffe wrote: > I've read your blogs and have been keeping up with them. What I can't seem > to find is the ULS registrations for the actual earth satellite stations. > It seems like most other ULS entires, they have a contact address and a > person's name. > > I did a Geosearch of Orange County, FL (the Sprint Communications Orlando, > FL county) using Frequencies 3500 to 5000mhz (All Service Types), and found > nothing but a cancelled point to point license for AT&T. > Check out http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/General_Menu_Reports/filenum.cfm to search by file number. I'm reading over the applications now. Lots of good info which you will need for base station placement calculations (try saying that 3 times fast) located appendix D of the frequency rules document. I don't know the formal name of that document. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
I think it was just a matter of getting around to it. I am ccing him if you would like to collaborate with him on getting the info to the community. David On 7/28/08 12:01 PM, "Charles Wyble" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > David Peterson wrote: >> This site has the basic locations and shows their radius coverage. >> >> http://zing.naviciti.com/ >> >> You can also contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] for the contact info on any of >> those sites. >> >> > > If they have the info, why don't they put it on the map? Isn't that kind > of the point of the mash up? :) > > I was quite frustrated with the lack of information on that map (I found > it some time ago). > > I have also put up a mash up of the stations in SoCal. > > http://tinyurl.com/5hjky4 > > What info I have (in my blog posts) is linked to from the map. > > If anyone has info on ground stations (both for ones I have and ones I > don't) I'll happily expand my mash up, and link back to the page with > info (and I'll host the info page if you like as well). > > >> David >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
David Peterson wrote: > This site has the basic locations and shows their radius coverage. > > http://zing.naviciti.com/ > > You can also contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] for the contact info on any of > those sites. > > If they have the info, why don't they put it on the map? Isn't that kind of the point of the mash up? :) I was quite frustrated with the lack of information on that map (I found it some time ago). I have also put up a mash up of the stations in SoCal. http://tinyurl.com/5hjky4 What info I have (in my blog posts) is linked to from the map. If anyone has info on ground stations (both for ones I have and ones I don't) I'll happily expand my mash up, and link back to the page with info (and I'll host the info page if you like as well). > David > -- Charles Wyble (818) 280 - 7059 http://charlesnw.blogspot.com CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
This site has the basic locations and shows their radius coverage. http://zing.naviciti.com/ You can also contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] for the contact info on any of those sites. David On 7/28/08 10:21 AM, "Doug Radcliffe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So how do we find the contact information on the international bureau's > filings? > > - Original Message - > From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:58 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...? > > >> You can't use ULS for earth stations. Earth stations are covered by >> the international bureau as opposed to the wireless bureau. >> >> -Matt >> >> On Jul 27, 2008, at 6:52 PM, Doug Ratcliffe wrote: >> >>> I've read your blogs and have been keeping up with them. What I >>> can't seem >>> to find is the ULS registrations for the actual earth satellite >>> stations. >>> It seems like most other ULS entires, they have a contact address >>> and a >>> person's name. >>> >>> I did a Geosearch of Orange County, FL (the Sprint Communications >>> Orlando, >>> FL county) using Frequencies 3500 to 5000mhz (All Service Types), >>> and found >>> nothing but a cancelled point to point license for AT&T. >>> >>> A quick search of the FCC site for Sprint's filing # >>> (SESRWL2000101902129) >>> finds nothing but the mention in the FCC 3650 FSS list. If I were >>> to call >>> the FCC with that number would they be able to provide me contact >>> information for that company that pertains to the FSS department? >>> >>> I wonder if creating a website that documented all the FSS contact >>> info, >>> combined with map distance, automatic EIRP / bearing calculations >>> (i.e. the >>> stuff the FCC talks about in their 3650 document), would be >>> beneficial to >>> the other WISPs who want to serve the 125 million people who live >>> INSIDE of >>> these zones. >>> >>> It seems silly, like a 5-10W transmitter pointing the opposite >>> direction >>> would even make a difference - you would think the FCC would have >>> integrated >>> distance AND antenna direction when it comes to base station >>> registration... >>> >>> Florida is flat. At 105km, I would need to have at least a 450 foot >>> tower >>> or higher on both ends to even send a signal that far. 45 miles >>> ended up >>> needing over 400ft on both ends. It's not like I want to broadcast >>> 3650 >>> from the top of a 10,000 foot mountain peak. >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "Charles Wyble" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "WISPA General List" >>> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...? >>> >>> >>>> Doug Ratcliffe wrote: >>>>> Has anyone gotten any headway on company negotiations in protected >>>>> zones? >>>>> Almost all of the zones near me (105km is the closest to the SW, >>>>> 146.7km >>>>> next closest to the South) and I have no desire to point coverage >>>>> in that >>>>> direction - mainly north and northwest. But according to the FCC, >>>>> I'd be >>>>> dealing with Sprint, and Harris Corporation - these people don't >>>>> even >>>>> have >>>>> phone numbers on their web sites for any departments that would >>>>> look like >>>>> they would even know what I was talking about. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I have done several blog posts on this subject: >>>> >>>> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/satellite-related-brain-dump.html >>>> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/80211y-3650-mhz-in-southern-californi >>>> a.html >>>> >>>> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/3650mhz-southern-california-malibu.ht >>>> ml >>>> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/3650mhz-southern-california-malibu_05 >>>> .html >>>> >>>> Hope that helps. >>>>> And even if I found a human being, it seems unlikely I'd talk to >
Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
If I knew a central place to get actual contact information for FSS owners I would share it. The few that I have contacted thus far are all administrative. -Matt On Jul 28, 2008, at 10:21 AM, Doug Ratcliffe wrote: > So how do we find the contact information on the international > bureau's > filings? > > - Original Message - > From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:58 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...? > > >> You can't use ULS for earth stations. Earth stations are covered by >> the international bureau as opposed to the wireless bureau. >> >> -Matt >> >> On Jul 27, 2008, at 6:52 PM, Doug Ratcliffe wrote: >> >>> I've read your blogs and have been keeping up with them. What I >>> can't seem >>> to find is the ULS registrations for the actual earth satellite >>> stations. >>> It seems like most other ULS entires, they have a contact address >>> and a >>> person's name. >>> >>> I did a Geosearch of Orange County, FL (the Sprint Communications >>> Orlando, >>> FL county) using Frequencies 3500 to 5000mhz (All Service Types), >>> and found >>> nothing but a cancelled point to point license for AT&T. >>> >>> A quick search of the FCC site for Sprint's filing # >>> (SESRWL2000101902129) >>> finds nothing but the mention in the FCC 3650 FSS list. If I were >>> to call >>> the FCC with that number would they be able to provide me contact >>> information for that company that pertains to the FSS department? >>> >>> I wonder if creating a website that documented all the FSS contact >>> info, >>> combined with map distance, automatic EIRP / bearing calculations >>> (i.e. the >>> stuff the FCC talks about in their 3650 document), would be >>> beneficial to >>> the other WISPs who want to serve the 125 million people who live >>> INSIDE of >>> these zones. >>> >>> It seems silly, like a 5-10W transmitter pointing the opposite >>> direction >>> would even make a difference - you would think the FCC would have >>> integrated >>> distance AND antenna direction when it comes to base station >>> registration... >>> >>> Florida is flat. At 105km, I would need to have at least a 450 foot >>> tower >>> or higher on both ends to even send a signal that far. 45 miles >>> ended up >>> needing over 400ft on both ends. It's not like I want to broadcast >>> 3650 >>> from the top of a 10,000 foot mountain peak. >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "Charles Wyble" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "WISPA General List" >>> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...? >>> >>> >>>> Doug Ratcliffe wrote: >>>>> Has anyone gotten any headway on company negotiations in protected >>>>> zones? >>>>> Almost all of the zones near me (105km is the closest to the SW, >>>>> 146.7km >>>>> next closest to the South) and I have no desire to point coverage >>>>> in that >>>>> direction - mainly north and northwest. But according to the FCC, >>>>> I'd be >>>>> dealing with Sprint, and Harris Corporation - these people don't >>>>> even >>>>> have >>>>> phone numbers on their web sites for any departments that would >>>>> look like >>>>> they would even know what I was talking about. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I have done several blog posts on this subject: >>>> >>>> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/satellite-related-brain-dump.html >>>> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/80211y-3650-mhz-in-southern-california.html >>>> >>>> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/3650mhz-southern-california-malibu.html >>>> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/3650mhz-southern-california-malibu_05.html >>>> >>>> Hope that helps. >>>>> And even if I found a human being, it seems unlikely I'd talk to >>>>> anyone >>>>> with >>>>> the power to make a real decision. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Indeed. >>>
Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
So how do we find the contact information on the international bureau's filings? - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...? > You can't use ULS for earth stations. Earth stations are covered by > the international bureau as opposed to the wireless bureau. > > -Matt > > On Jul 27, 2008, at 6:52 PM, Doug Ratcliffe wrote: > >> I've read your blogs and have been keeping up with them. What I >> can't seem >> to find is the ULS registrations for the actual earth satellite >> stations. >> It seems like most other ULS entires, they have a contact address >> and a >> person's name. >> >> I did a Geosearch of Orange County, FL (the Sprint Communications >> Orlando, >> FL county) using Frequencies 3500 to 5000mhz (All Service Types), >> and found >> nothing but a cancelled point to point license for AT&T. >> >> A quick search of the FCC site for Sprint's filing # >> (SESRWL2000101902129) >> finds nothing but the mention in the FCC 3650 FSS list. If I were >> to call >> the FCC with that number would they be able to provide me contact >> information for that company that pertains to the FSS department? >> >> I wonder if creating a website that documented all the FSS contact >> info, >> combined with map distance, automatic EIRP / bearing calculations >> (i.e. the >> stuff the FCC talks about in their 3650 document), would be >> beneficial to >> the other WISPs who want to serve the 125 million people who live >> INSIDE of >> these zones. >> >> It seems silly, like a 5-10W transmitter pointing the opposite >> direction >> would even make a difference - you would think the FCC would have >> integrated >> distance AND antenna direction when it comes to base station >> registration... >> >> Florida is flat. At 105km, I would need to have at least a 450 foot >> tower >> or higher on both ends to even send a signal that far. 45 miles >> ended up >> needing over 400ft on both ends. It's not like I want to broadcast >> 3650 >> from the top of a 10,000 foot mountain peak. >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Charles Wyble" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...? >> >> >>> Doug Ratcliffe wrote: >>>> Has anyone gotten any headway on company negotiations in protected >>>> zones? >>>> Almost all of the zones near me (105km is the closest to the SW, >>>> 146.7km >>>> next closest to the South) and I have no desire to point coverage >>>> in that >>>> direction - mainly north and northwest. But according to the FCC, >>>> I'd be >>>> dealing with Sprint, and Harris Corporation - these people don't >>>> even >>>> have >>>> phone numbers on their web sites for any departments that would >>>> look like >>>> they would even know what I was talking about. >>>> >>> >>> I have done several blog posts on this subject: >>> >>> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/satellite-related-brain-dump.html >>> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/80211y-3650-mhz-in-southern-california.html >>> >>> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/3650mhz-southern-california-malibu.html >>> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/3650mhz-southern-california-malibu_05.html >>> >>> Hope that helps. >>>> And even if I found a human being, it seems unlikely I'd talk to >>>> anyone >>>> with >>>> the power to make a real decision. >>>> >>> >>> Indeed. >>>> Is this something best sent from a telecommunications attorney to >>>> their >>>> FCC >>>> attorney of record? Is the consent more like a contract? Would >>>> they be >>>> able to charge me for consent (like a spectrum lease)? Is this like >>>> asking >>>> for keys to the space shuttle? >>>> >>> >>> Excellent questions. Hopefully someone here can help. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Charles Wyble (818) 280 - 7059 >>> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com >>> CTO Known Element Enterp
Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
You can't use ULS for earth stations. Earth stations are covered by the international bureau as opposed to the wireless bureau. -Matt On Jul 27, 2008, at 6:52 PM, Doug Ratcliffe wrote: > I've read your blogs and have been keeping up with them. What I > can't seem > to find is the ULS registrations for the actual earth satellite > stations. > It seems like most other ULS entires, they have a contact address > and a > person's name. > > I did a Geosearch of Orange County, FL (the Sprint Communications > Orlando, > FL county) using Frequencies 3500 to 5000mhz (All Service Types), > and found > nothing but a cancelled point to point license for AT&T. > > A quick search of the FCC site for Sprint's filing # > (SESRWL2000101902129) > finds nothing but the mention in the FCC 3650 FSS list. If I were > to call > the FCC with that number would they be able to provide me contact > information for that company that pertains to the FSS department? > > I wonder if creating a website that documented all the FSS contact > info, > combined with map distance, automatic EIRP / bearing calculations > (i.e. the > stuff the FCC talks about in their 3650 document), would be > beneficial to > the other WISPs who want to serve the 125 million people who live > INSIDE of > these zones. > > It seems silly, like a 5-10W transmitter pointing the opposite > direction > would even make a difference - you would think the FCC would have > integrated > distance AND antenna direction when it comes to base station > registration... > > Florida is flat. At 105km, I would need to have at least a 450 foot > tower > or higher on both ends to even send a signal that far. 45 miles > ended up > needing over 400ft on both ends. It's not like I want to broadcast > 3650 > from the top of a 10,000 foot mountain peak. > > - Original Message - > From: "Charles Wyble" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:20 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...? > > >> Doug Ratcliffe wrote: >>> Has anyone gotten any headway on company negotiations in protected >>> zones? >>> Almost all of the zones near me (105km is the closest to the SW, >>> 146.7km >>> next closest to the South) and I have no desire to point coverage >>> in that >>> direction - mainly north and northwest. But according to the FCC, >>> I'd be >>> dealing with Sprint, and Harris Corporation - these people don't >>> even >>> have >>> phone numbers on their web sites for any departments that would >>> look like >>> they would even know what I was talking about. >>> >> >> I have done several blog posts on this subject: >> >> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/satellite-related-brain-dump.html >> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/80211y-3650-mhz-in-southern-california.html >> >> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/3650mhz-southern-california-malibu.html >> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/3650mhz-southern-california-malibu_05.html >> >> Hope that helps. >>> And even if I found a human being, it seems unlikely I'd talk to >>> anyone >>> with >>> the power to make a real decision. >>> >> >> Indeed. >>> Is this something best sent from a telecommunications attorney to >>> their >>> FCC >>> attorney of record? Is the consent more like a contract? Would >>> they be >>> able to charge me for consent (like a spectrum lease)? Is this like >>> asking >>> for keys to the space shuttle? >>> >> >> Excellent questions. Hopefully someone here can help. >> >> >> -- >> Charles Wyble (818) 280 - 7059 >> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com >> CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signu
Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
We did it using a telecom attorney, we used Kris Towmey www.lokt.net Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Ratcliffe Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...? Has anyone gotten any headway on company negotiations in protected zones? Almost all of the zones near me (105km is the closest to the SW, 146.7km next closest to the South) and I have no desire to point coverage in that direction - mainly north and northwest. But according to the FCC, I'd be dealing with Sprint, and Harris Corporation - these people don't even have phone numbers on their web sites for any departments that would look like they would even know what I was talking about. And even if I found a human being, it seems unlikely I'd talk to anyone with the power to make a real decision. Is this something best sent from a telecommunications attorney to their FCC attorney of record? Is the consent more like a contract? Would they be able to charge me for consent (like a spectrum lease)? Is this like asking for keys to the space shuttle? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
I used to live in Boca Raton and my ham repeater is still on the air down there. We're also doing some 3650 in Florida as well. Currently we're 4 miles just west of the 150km zone so we're in the clear. I've had numerous calls with higherups at the WTB on this over the last few months. Leon * Doug Ratcliffe wrote, On 7/27/2008 6:52 PM: > I've read your blogs and have been keeping up with them. What I can't seem > to find is the ULS registrations for the actual earth satellite stations. > It seems like most other ULS entires, they have a contact address and a > person's name. > > I did a Geosearch of Orange County, FL (the Sprint Communications Orlando, > FL county) using Frequencies 3500 to 5000mhz (All Service Types), and found > nothing but a cancelled point to point license for AT&T. > > A quick search of the FCC site for Sprint's filing # (SESRWL2000101902129) > finds nothing but the mention in the FCC 3650 FSS list. If I were to call > the FCC with that number would they be able to provide me contact > information for that company that pertains to the FSS department? > > I wonder if creating a website that documented all the FSS contact info, > combined with map distance, automatic EIRP / bearing calculations (i.e. the > stuff the FCC talks about in their 3650 document), would be beneficial to > the other WISPs who want to serve the 125 million people who live INSIDE of > these zones. > > It seems silly, like a 5-10W transmitter pointing the opposite direction > would even make a difference - you would think the FCC would have integrated > distance AND antenna direction when it comes to base station registration... > > Florida is flat. At 105km, I would need to have at least a 450 foot tower > or higher on both ends to even send a signal that far. 45 miles ended up > needing over 400ft on both ends. It's not like I want to broadcast 3650 > from the top of a 10,000 foot mountain peak. > > - Original Message - > From: "Charles Wyble" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:20 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...? > > > >> Doug Ratcliffe wrote: >> >>> Has anyone gotten any headway on company negotiations in protected zones? >>> Almost all of the zones near me (105km is the closest to the SW, 146.7km >>> next closest to the South) and I have no desire to point coverage in that >>> direction - mainly north and northwest. But according to the FCC, I'd be >>> dealing with Sprint, and Harris Corporation - these people don't even >>> have >>> phone numbers on their web sites for any departments that would look like >>> they would even know what I was talking about. >>> >>> >> I have done several blog posts on this subject: >> >> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/satellite-related-brain-dump.html >> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/80211y-3650-mhz-in-southern-california.html >> >> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/3650mhz-southern-california-malibu.html >> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/3650mhz-southern-california-malibu_05.html >> >> Hope that helps. >> >>> And even if I found a human being, it seems unlikely I'd talk to anyone >>> with >>> the power to make a real decision. >>> >>> >> Indeed. >> >>> Is this something best sent from a telecommunications attorney to their >>> FCC >>> attorney of record? Is the consent more like a contract? Would they be >>> able to charge me for consent (like a spectrum lease)? Is this like >>> asking >>> for keys to the space shuttle? >>> >>> >> Excellent questions. Hopefully someone here can help. >> >> >> -- >> Charles Wyble (818) 280 - 7059 >> http://charlesnw.blogspot.com >> CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
Yep. We have 4 grandfathered sites in our region. One signed off, one is deactive with the license surendered, one is att, and the 4th is sprint. I hope to have sprint and att signed off in the next 30 days --- airCloud Communications Jerry Richardson 925-260-4119 Sent Mobile -Original Message- From: Doug Ratcliffe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...? Has anyone gotten any headway on company negotiations in protected zones? Almost all of the zones near me (105km is the closest to the SW, 146.7km next closest to the South) and I have no desire to point coverage in that direction - mainly north and northwest. But according to the FCC, I'd be dealing with Sprint, and Harris Corporation - these people don't even have phone numbers on their web sites for any departments that would look like they would even know what I was talking about. And even if I found a human being, it seems unlikely I'd talk to anyone with the power to make a real decision. Is this something best sent from a telecommunications attorney to their FCC attorney of record? Is the consent more like a contract? Would they be able to charge me for consent (like a spectrum lease)? Is this like asking for keys to the space shuttle? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
Hi Doug...I've been doing this since January and it's been very slow. Comsearch seems to rep many of the FSSes. As soon as I have more info on where we are I'll post it or you can contact me off list. Thanks leon * Doug Ratcliffe wrote, On 7/27/2008 6:16 PM: > Has anyone gotten any headway on company negotiations in protected zones? > Almost all of the zones near me (105km is the closest to the SW, 146.7km > next closest to the South) and I have no desire to point coverage in that > direction - mainly north and northwest. But according to the FCC, I'd be > dealing with Sprint, and Harris Corporation - these people don't even have > phone numbers on their web sites for any departments that would look like > they would even know what I was talking about. > > And even if I found a human being, it seems unlikely I'd talk to anyone with > the power to make a real decision. > > Is this something best sent from a telecommunications attorney to their FCC > attorney of record? Is the consent more like a contract? Would they be > able to charge me for consent (like a spectrum lease)? Is this like asking > for keys to the space shuttle? > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
Doug Ratcliffe wrote: > Has anyone gotten any headway on company negotiations in protected zones? > For better or for worse my blog posts seem to be the only material of substance I can find on the subject. I wish that wasn't the case. :) > Almost all of the zones near me (105km is the closest to the SW, 146.7km > next closest to the South) and I have no desire to point coverage in that > direction - mainly north and northwest. Have you seen appendix D of the ruling ( located at http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-56A1.pdf%20 ) It mentions the fact that the 150Km zones are for the worse possible configuration. I have a friend of mine who is a math wizard doing some calculations on the zones and figuring out where base stations can be located. Two data sets are of interest 1) Location of a 3650 base station in an exclusion zone 2) Location of a 3650 base station inside multiple (overlapping) exclusion zones. Obviously the zones are far to broad, as existing satellite ground stations are operating in overlapping zones without interference. Naturally when his calculations are complete I will post the full data set. > But according to the FCC, I'd be > dealing with Sprint, and Harris Corporation - these people don't even have > phone numbers on their web sites for any departments that would look like > they would even know what I was talking about. > Naturally. I would suggest networking with individuals from the societies I link to in my blog post. They would seem to be the ones who could provide the technical contacts and validation. > And even if I found a human being, it seems unlikely I'd talk to anyone with > the power to make a real decision. > Hmmm. I have a sneaky evil plan that just might work. It's a sort of backwards way of doing things. There is a company that offers monitoring service for the 3650Mhz registrations. They sell this to earth station operators. Once someone registers inside the exclusion zone they contact them. I discovered this the other day and am now unable to locate it. Some people to talk to might be http://www.suirg.org/ ? Think of them ass the satellite mafia? :) For now I have tabled pursuit of spectrum access until any significant events occur, or the availability of 802.11y equipment. Whichever comes first. > Is this something best sent from a telecommunications attorney to their FCC > attorney of record? That's an interesting question. In my original post on this subject to the list someone mentioned they had negotiated access. When I asked for further detail I didn't receive any more information. > Is the consent more like a contract? Would they be > able to charge me for consent (like a spectrum lease)? Unfortunately all the FCC spells out is a requirement for negotiation in good faith. I am not sure what on earth "in good faith" means. > Is this like asking > for keys to the space shuttle? > You could probably get the nuclear launch codes that a marine carries for the President easier then spectrum access. I would love to be proven wrong. I sent a letter to the two names mentioned on the ruling, regarding the subject of gaining spectrum access. A copy of the letter can be found here: http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/fcc-engagement.html I have yet to hear back from either of them. :) If I obtain any more information from the various information loops I'm plugged into, I will blog it and post here. Also I am going to track down that registration monitoring service now. Might be far easier to simply register and have them come to you? -- Charles Wyble (818) 280 - 7059 http://charlesnw.blogspot.com CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
In a couple years NASA's not going to be using the shuttles anymore, so they'll be easier to get a hold of. ;-) -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Doug Ratcliffe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 5:16 PM Subject: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...? > Has anyone gotten any headway on company negotiations in protected zones? > Almost all of the zones near me (105km is the closest to the SW, 146.7km > next closest to the South) and I have no desire to point coverage in that > direction - mainly north and northwest. But according to the FCC, I'd be > dealing with Sprint, and Harris Corporation - these people don't even have > phone numbers on their web sites for any departments that would look like > they would even know what I was talking about. > > And even if I found a human being, it seems unlikely I'd talk to anyone > with > the power to make a real decision. > > Is this something best sent from a telecommunications attorney to their > FCC > attorney of record? Is the consent more like a contract? Would they be > able to charge me for consent (like a spectrum lease)? Is this like > asking > for keys to the space shuttle? > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
I've read your blogs and have been keeping up with them. What I can't seem to find is the ULS registrations for the actual earth satellite stations. It seems like most other ULS entires, they have a contact address and a person's name. I did a Geosearch of Orange County, FL (the Sprint Communications Orlando, FL county) using Frequencies 3500 to 5000mhz (All Service Types), and found nothing but a cancelled point to point license for AT&T. A quick search of the FCC site for Sprint's filing # (SESRWL2000101902129) finds nothing but the mention in the FCC 3650 FSS list. If I were to call the FCC with that number would they be able to provide me contact information for that company that pertains to the FSS department? I wonder if creating a website that documented all the FSS contact info, combined with map distance, automatic EIRP / bearing calculations (i.e. the stuff the FCC talks about in their 3650 document), would be beneficial to the other WISPs who want to serve the 125 million people who live INSIDE of these zones. It seems silly, like a 5-10W transmitter pointing the opposite direction would even make a difference - you would think the FCC would have integrated distance AND antenna direction when it comes to base station registration... Florida is flat. At 105km, I would need to have at least a 450 foot tower or higher on both ends to even send a signal that far. 45 miles ended up needing over 400ft on both ends. It's not like I want to broadcast 3650 from the top of a 10,000 foot mountain peak. - Original Message - From: "Charles Wyble" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...? > Doug Ratcliffe wrote: >> Has anyone gotten any headway on company negotiations in protected zones? >> Almost all of the zones near me (105km is the closest to the SW, 146.7km >> next closest to the South) and I have no desire to point coverage in that >> direction - mainly north and northwest. But according to the FCC, I'd be >> dealing with Sprint, and Harris Corporation - these people don't even >> have >> phone numbers on their web sites for any departments that would look like >> they would even know what I was talking about. >> > > I have done several blog posts on this subject: > > http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/satellite-related-brain-dump.html > http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/80211y-3650-mhz-in-southern-california.html > > http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/3650mhz-southern-california-malibu.html > http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/3650mhz-southern-california-malibu_05.html > > Hope that helps. >> And even if I found a human being, it seems unlikely I'd talk to anyone >> with >> the power to make a real decision. >> > > Indeed. >> Is this something best sent from a telecommunications attorney to their >> FCC >> attorney of record? Is the consent more like a contract? Would they be >> able to charge me for consent (like a spectrum lease)? Is this like >> asking >> for keys to the space shuttle? >> > > Excellent questions. Hopefully someone here can help. > > > -- > Charles Wyble (818) 280 - 7059 > http://charlesnw.blogspot.com > CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
Doug Ratcliffe wrote: > Has anyone gotten any headway on company negotiations in protected zones? > Almost all of the zones near me (105km is the closest to the SW, 146.7km > next closest to the South) and I have no desire to point coverage in that > direction - mainly north and northwest. But according to the FCC, I'd be > dealing with Sprint, and Harris Corporation - these people don't even have > phone numbers on their web sites for any departments that would look like > they would even know what I was talking about. > I have done several blog posts on this subject: http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/satellite-related-brain-dump.html http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/80211y-3650-mhz-in-southern-california.html http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/3650mhz-southern-california-malibu.html http://charlesnw.blogspot.com/2008/07/3650mhz-southern-california-malibu_05.html Hope that helps. > And even if I found a human being, it seems unlikely I'd talk to anyone with > the power to make a real decision. > Indeed. > Is this something best sent from a telecommunications attorney to their FCC > attorney of record? Is the consent more like a contract? Would they be > able to charge me for consent (like a spectrum lease)? Is this like asking > for keys to the space shuttle? > Excellent questions. Hopefully someone here can help. -- Charles Wyble (818) 280 - 7059 http://charlesnw.blogspot.com CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] 3650 FSS negotiations for protected areas...?
Has anyone gotten any headway on company negotiations in protected zones? Almost all of the zones near me (105km is the closest to the SW, 146.7km next closest to the South) and I have no desire to point coverage in that direction - mainly north and northwest. But according to the FCC, I'd be dealing with Sprint, and Harris Corporation - these people don't even have phone numbers on their web sites for any departments that would look like they would even know what I was talking about. And even if I found a human being, it seems unlikely I'd talk to anyone with the power to make a real decision. Is this something best sent from a telecommunications attorney to their FCC attorney of record? Is the consent more like a contract? Would they be able to charge me for consent (like a spectrum lease)? Is this like asking for keys to the space shuttle? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
