Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Jeff Evans]

Also if has FAA lighting, there could be an issue with that circuit, have you 
measured the voltage?


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone






 Original message From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
<par...@cyberbroadband.net> Date: 8/4/16  6:55 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: WISPA 
General List <wireless@wispa.org> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference 

 
Is this an AM radio station?
Give me the call sign of the station (FM or AM) and I'll 
look up its output power for you
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jeff Evans 
  
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2016 5:51 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio 
  interference
  

  Something not right there, does the station engineer know that?
  

  

  

  
  Sent from my Verizon, Samsung 
  Galaxy smartphone
  

  
   Original message 
  From: Marco Coelho <coelh...@gmail.com> 
  Date: 8/4/16 5:47 PM (GMT-05:00) 
  To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org> 
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference 
  

  We're 60 feet away from the shack.   The antenna 
  excites the tower to the point of shocking you if you touch the steel with 
40' 
  of the antenna array.

  

  On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 11:04 AM, Jeff Evans <jev...@pennwisp.com> wrote:

  Besides 
Mike's fiber, I'd be suspect of the equipment in the shack if
you're near 
the transmitter.
A problem is more likely there 
imo.


Quoting Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>:

> 
I thought we were missing something ITT.
>
>
> Josh 
Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 
Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, 
Jul 18, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Mike Hammett <wispawirel...@ics-il.net>
> 
wrote:
>
>> *clears 
throat*
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> 
Mike Hammett
>>
>> Intelligent Computing ___
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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

Is this an AM radio station?
Give me the call sign of the station (FM or AM) and I'll look up its output 
power for you


  - Original Message - 
  From: Jeff Evans 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2016 5:51 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference


  Something not right there, does the station engineer know that?






  Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


   Original message 
  From: Marco Coelho <coelh...@gmail.com> 
  Date: 8/4/16 5:47 PM (GMT-05:00) 
  To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org> 
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference 


  We're 60 feet away from the shack.   The antenna excites the tower to the 
point of shocking you if you touch the steel with 40' of the antenna array.



  On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 11:04 AM, Jeff Evans <jev...@pennwisp.com> wrote:

Besides Mike's fiber, I'd be suspect of the equipment in the shack if
you're near the transmitter.
A problem is more likely there imo.


Quoting Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>:

> I thought we were missing something ITT.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Mike Hammett <wispawirel...@ics-il.net>
> wrote:
>
>> *clears throat*
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>>
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Marco Coelho" <coelh...@gmail.com>
>> *To: *"WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>> *Sent: *Thursday, July 14, 2016 3:18:59 PM
>> *Subject: *[WISPA] FM Radio interference

>>
>> I have an existing tower that has a FM transmitter on it.  I believe they
>> are just under 10,000 Watts.
>> Since we have been one that tower, I could never link up Ethernet that
>> runs up the tower to the equipment on the bottom at 100BT.  I've tried
>> ferrite rings on both ends, all cables are shielded and grounded.  Always
>> had to go to 10BT to get a link.
>>
>> I moved our radios 35 feet away from the bottom their antennas and still
>> cannot link at 100BT.
>>
>> The new radios require 1000BT too use them to full advantage.  Ideas?
>>
>> I'm considering conduit all the way up the tower.  I don't want to put
>> switches at the top.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Marco C. Coelho
>> Argon Technologies Inc.
>> POB 875
>> Greenville, TX 75403-0875
>> 903-455-5036
>>
>> ___
>> Wireless mailing list
>> Wireless@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Wireless mailing list
>> Wireless@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>>



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  -- 

  Marco C. Coelho
  Argon Technologies Inc.
  POB 875
  Greenville, TX 75403-0875
  903-455-5036


--


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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Jeff Evans]

Something not right there, does the station engineer know that?


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: Marco Coelho <coelh...@gmail.com> Date: 
8/4/16  5:47 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org> 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference 
We're 60 feet away from the shack.   The antenna excites the tower to the point 
of shocking you if you touch the steel with 40' of the antenna array.

On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 11:04 AM, Jeff Evans <jev...@pennwisp.com> wrote:
Besides Mike's fiber, I'd be suspect of the equipment in the shack if

you're near the transmitter.

A problem is more likely there imo.





Quoting Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>:



> I thought we were missing something ITT.

>

>

> Josh Luthman

> Office: 937-552-2340

> Direct: 937-552-2343

> 1100 Wayne St

> Suite 1337

> Troy, OH 45373

>

> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Mike Hammett <wispawirel...@ics-il.net>

> wrote:

>

>> *clears throat*

>>

>>

>>

>> -

>> Mike Hammett

>>

>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>

>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>

>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>

>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

>>

>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>

>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>

>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>

>>

>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>

>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>

>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

>> --

>> *From: *"Marco Coelho" <coelh...@gmail.com>

>> *To: *"WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>

>> *Sent: *Thursday, July 14, 2016 3:18:59 PM

>> *Subject: *[WISPA] FM Radio interference

>>

>> I have an existing tower that has a FM transmitter on it.  I believe they

>> are just under 10,000 Watts.

>> Since we have been one that tower, I could never link up Ethernet that

>> runs up the tower to the equipment on the bottom at 100BT.  I've tried

>> ferrite rings on both ends, all cables are shielded and grounded.  Always

>> had to go to 10BT to get a link.

>>

>> I moved our radios 35 feet away from the bottom their antennas and still

>> cannot link at 100BT.

>>

>> The new radios require 1000BT too use them to full advantage.  Ideas?

>>

>> I'm considering conduit all the way up the tower.  I don't want to put

>> switches at the top.

>>

>>

>>

>> --

>> Marco C. Coelho

>> Argon Technologies Inc.

>> POB 875

>> Greenville, TX 75403-0875

>> 903-455-5036

>>

>> ___

>> Wireless mailing list

>> Wireless@wispa.org

>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

>>

>>

>> ___

>> Wireless mailing list

>> Wireless@wispa.org

>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

>>

>>







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-- 
Marco C. Coelho
Argon Technologies Inc.
POB 875
Greenville, TX 75403-0875
903-455-5036

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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Chadwick Wachs]

I bet that's fun to climb. I had similar issues on a tower with 4 lower
powered FM stations (100s of watts) and I was using shielded cable. Added
ferrites to each end and it cleared up 99% of my issues. Get a single link
error every now and again. That's a change from dozens a day and a 1000BT
link that would only train up at 100BT at best.

Fiber is a better solution. Someday. Getting off the tower is the current
goal.

On Aug 4, 2016 2:47 PM, "Marco Coelho" <coelh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> We're 60 feet away from the shack.   The antenna excites the tower to the
> point of shocking you if you touch the steel with 40' of the antenna array.
>
> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 11:04 AM, Jeff Evans <jev...@pennwisp.com> wrote:
>
>> Besides Mike's fiber, I'd be suspect of the equipment in the shack if
>> you're near the transmitter.
>> A problem is more likely there imo.
>>
>>
>> Quoting Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>:
>>
>> > I thought we were missing something ITT.
>> >
>> >
>> > Josh Luthman
>> > Office: 937-552-2340
>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>> > 1100 Wayne St
>> > Suite 1337
>> > Troy, OH 45373
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Mike Hammett <
>> wispawirel...@ics-il.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> *clears throat*
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -
>> >> Mike Hammett
>> >>
>> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> >>
>> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> >> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> >>
>> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> >> --
>> >> *From: *"Marco Coelho" <coelh...@gmail.com>
>> >> *To: *"WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>> >> *Sent: *Thursday, July 14, 2016 3:18:59 PM
>> >> *Subject: *[WISPA] FM Radio interference
>> >>
>> >> I have an existing tower that has a FM transmitter on it.  I believe
>> they
>> >> are just under 10,000 Watts.
>> >> Since we have been one that tower, I could never link up Ethernet that
>> >> runs up the tower to the equipment on the bottom at 100BT.  I've tried
>> >> ferrite rings on both ends, all cables are shielded and grounded.
>> Always
>> >> had to go to 10BT to get a link.
>> >>
>> >> I moved our radios 35 feet away from the bottom their antennas and
>> still
>> >> cannot link at 100BT.
>> >>
>> >> The new radios require 1000BT too use them to full advantage.  Ideas?
>> >>
>> >> I'm considering conduit all the way up the tower.  I don't want to put
>> >> switches at the top.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Marco C. Coelho
>> >> Argon Technologies Inc.
>> >> POB 875
>> >> Greenville, TX 75403-0875
>> >> 903-455-5036
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Wireless mailing list
>> >> Wireless@wispa.org
>> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Wireless mailing list
>> >> Wireless@wispa.org
>> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Wireless mailing list
>> Wireless@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Marco C. Coelho
> Argon Technologies Inc.
> POB 875
> Greenville, TX 75403-0875
> 903-455-5036
>
> ___
> Wireless mailing list
> Wireless@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Marco Coelho]

We're 60 feet away from the shack.   The antenna excites the tower to the
point of shocking you if you touch the steel with 40' of the antenna array.

On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 11:04 AM, Jeff Evans <jev...@pennwisp.com> wrote:

> Besides Mike's fiber, I'd be suspect of the equipment in the shack if
> you're near the transmitter.
> A problem is more likely there imo.
>
>
> Quoting Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>:
>
> > I thought we were missing something ITT.
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Mike Hammett <wispawirel...@ics-il.net
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> *clears throat*
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >> Mike Hammett
> >>
> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> >>
> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> >> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> >>
> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> >> --
> >> *From: *"Marco Coelho" <coelh...@gmail.com>
> >> *To: *"WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> >> *Sent: *Thursday, July 14, 2016 3:18:59 PM
> >> *Subject: *[WISPA] FM Radio interference
> >>
> >> I have an existing tower that has a FM transmitter on it.  I believe
> they
> >> are just under 10,000 Watts.
> >> Since we have been one that tower, I could never link up Ethernet that
> >> runs up the tower to the equipment on the bottom at 100BT.  I've tried
> >> ferrite rings on both ends, all cables are shielded and grounded.
> Always
> >> had to go to 10BT to get a link.
> >>
> >> I moved our radios 35 feet away from the bottom their antennas and still
> >> cannot link at 100BT.
> >>
> >> The new radios require 1000BT too use them to full advantage.  Ideas?
> >>
> >> I'm considering conduit all the way up the tower.  I don't want to put
> >> switches at the top.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Marco C. Coelho
> >> Argon Technologies Inc.
> >> POB 875
> >> Greenville, TX 75403-0875
> >> 903-455-5036
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Wireless mailing list
> >> Wireless@wispa.org
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Wireless mailing list
> >> Wireless@wispa.org
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
> ___
> Wireless mailing list
> Wireless@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>



-- 
Marco C. Coelho
Argon Technologies Inc.
POB 875
Greenville, TX 75403-0875
903-455-5036
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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Marco Coelho]

Chad, what was the freq and power levels at those towers?

On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 4:21 PM, Chad Pope  wrote:

> I have had the same issue on multiple FM towers and on those tower we have
> switched to Cat6 shielded cable and it had solved most of our ether net
> issues.
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016, 5:10 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> i prefer liquidtight because the metal shield is protected by an outside
>> coating.  this keeps it both water tight and prevents it from becoming a
>> giant conductor should it happen to touch a live wire somehow.
>>
>> you can buy it at any local electrical supply shop
>>
>> -sean
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Nick Bright 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/14/2016 3:43 PM, Nick Bright wrote:
>>> > On 7/14/2016 3:35 PM, Shawn C. Peppers wrote:
>>> >> Fiber with direct dc power to a edgepoint that is inside a metal
>>> enclosure.  Save yourself the hassle because you will always have problems
>>> if you do not.  Put your cables out of the edgepoint to the radios in
>>> flexible EMT or MC conduct.
>>> >>
>>> >> Shawn C. Peppers
>>> > That's probably the best solution, over using ferrites.
>>> >
>>> > There is also the option of CAT5e with corrugated copper shielding, but
>>> > MC conduit would be cheaper.
>>> >
>>> For anybody wondering, it looks like this type of armoring without
>>> pre-installed copper wires is referred to as "Flexible EMT" not MC.
>>>
>>> There are both Aluminum and Steel products available
>>>
>>> http://www.homedepot.com/p/AFC-Cable-Systems-3-4-in-x-
>>> 100-ft-Flexible-Aluminum-Conduit-5603-30-AFC/204847343
>>>
>>> http://www.homedepot.com/p/AFC-Cable-Systems-1-2-in-x-
>>> 100-ft-Flexible-Steel-Conduit-5502-30-AFC/204847339
>>>
>>> http://www.homedepot.com/p/AFC-Cable-Systems-3-8-in-x-
>>> 100-ft-Flexible-Steel-Conduit-5501-30-AFC/205070919
>>>
>>> 3/4" should fit 4 or maybe 5 shielded cat5e cables. It looks like, from
>>> the specs, a single shireen 5e shielded cable would fit with about .2"
>>> extra room in the 3/8" version.
>>>
>>> Shaun, what are your thoughts of liquid tight vs standard? Which do you
>>> use? Does anybody see any issues with capacitance changes in the
>>> shielding when it's wet, if not using liquid tight?
>>>
>>> --
>>> ---
>>> -  Nick Bright-
>>> -  Vice President of Technology   -
>>> -  Valnet -=- We Connect You -=-  -
>>> -  Tel 888-332-1616 x 315 / Fax 620-331-0789  -
>>> -  Web http://www.valnet.net/ -
>>> ---
>>> - Are your files safe?-
>>> - Valnet Vault - Secure Cloud Backup  -
>>> - More information & 30 day free trial at -
>>> - http://www.valnet.net/services/valnet-vault -
>>> ---
>>>
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>>> information that is confidential, privileged and exempt from disclosure
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>>
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>>
>
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>


-- 
Marco C. Coelho
Argon Technologies Inc.
POB 875
Greenville, TX 75403-0875
903-455-5036
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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Mike Hammett]

Sales Manager *and* Sr. Sales Engineer? ;-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 

Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Jeff Holdenrid" <je...@doubleradius.com> 
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 3:49:57 PM 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference 


I have been putting wireless on FM towers for some time now. 


If you do not do the liquid tight or the fiber, then the best bet is to use the 
Superior Essex BBDGE cable and ground the cable every 25-50 feet and it will 
bleed out the interference. 


It is a lot of grounding but it works. 














Jeff Holdenrid 
Sales Manager/ 
Sr. Sales Engineer 
DoubleRadius, Inc 
je...@doubleradius.com 
866-891-3602 x 185 (Toll Free) 
704-927-6085 (Office) 
704-604-6093 (Cell) 
704-927-6099 (Fax) 
2022 Van Buren Ave. 
Indian Trail, N.C. 28079 

Twitter 

Facebook 

Linkedin 



On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Marco Coelho < coelh...@gmail.com > wrote: 







I have an existing tower that has a FM transmitter on it. I believe they are 
just under 10,000 Watts. 
Since we have been one that tower, I could never link up Ethernet that runs up 
the tower to the equipment on the bottom at 100BT. I've tried ferrite rings on 
both ends, all cables are shielded and grounded. Always had to go to 10BT to 
get a link. 

I moved our radios 35 feet away from the bottom their antennas and still cannot 
link at 100BT. 

The new radios require 1000BT too use them to full advantage. Ideas? 

I'm considering conduit all the way up the tower. I don't want to put switches 
at the top. 








-- 

Marco C. Coelho 
Argon Technologies Inc. 
POB 875 
Greenville, TX 75403-0875 
903-455-5036 
___ 
Wireless mailing list 
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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Jeff Holdenrid]

I have been putting wireless on FM towers for some time now.

If you do not do the liquid tight or the fiber, then the best bet is to use
the Superior Essex BBDGE cable and ground the cable every 25-50 feet and it
will bleed out the interference.

It is a lot of grounding but it works.





Jeff Holdenrid
Sales Manager/
Sr. Sales Engineer
DoubleRadius, Inc
je...@doubleradius.com
866-891-3602 x 185 (Toll Free)
704-927-6085 (Office)
704-604-6093 (Cell)
704-927-6099 (Fax)
2022 Van Buren Ave.
Indian Trail, N.C. 28079

Twitter 

Facebook  

Linkedin 


On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Marco Coelho  wrote:

> I have an existing tower that has a FM transmitter on it.  I believe they
> are just under 10,000 Watts.
> Since we have been one that tower, I could never link up Ethernet that
> runs up the tower to the equipment on the bottom at 100BT.  I've tried
> ferrite rings on both ends, all cables are shielded and grounded.  Always
> had to go to 10BT to get a link.
>
> I moved our radios 35 feet away from the bottom their antennas and still
> cannot link at 100BT.
>
> The new radios require 1000BT too use them to full advantage.  Ideas?
>
> I'm considering conduit all the way up the tower.  I don't want to put
> switches at the top.
>
>
>
> --
> Marco C. Coelho
> Argon Technologies Inc.
> POB 875
> Greenville, TX 75403-0875
> 903-455-5036
>
> ___
> Wireless mailing list
> Wireless@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Jeff Evans]

Besides Mike's fiber, I'd be suspect of the equipment in the shack if  
you're near the transmitter.
A problem is more likely there imo.


Quoting Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>:

> I thought we were missing something ITT.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Mike Hammett <wispawirel...@ics-il.net>
> wrote:
>
>> *clears throat*
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>>
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Marco Coelho" <coelh...@gmail.com>
>> *To: *"WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>> *Sent: *Thursday, July 14, 2016 3:18:59 PM
>> *Subject: *[WISPA] FM Radio interference
>>
>> I have an existing tower that has a FM transmitter on it.  I believe they
>> are just under 10,000 Watts.
>> Since we have been one that tower, I could never link up Ethernet that
>> runs up the tower to the equipment on the bottom at 100BT.  I've tried
>> ferrite rings on both ends, all cables are shielded and grounded.  Always
>> had to go to 10BT to get a link.
>>
>> I moved our radios 35 feet away from the bottom their antennas and still
>> cannot link at 100BT.
>>
>> The new radios require 1000BT too use them to full advantage.  Ideas?
>>
>> I'm considering conduit all the way up the tower.  I don't want to put
>> switches at the top.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Marco C. Coelho
>> Argon Technologies Inc.
>> POB 875
>> Greenville, TX 75403-0875
>> 903-455-5036
>>
>> ___
>> Wireless mailing list
>> Wireless@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Wireless mailing list
>> Wireless@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>>



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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Josh Luthman]

I thought we were missing something ITT.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Mike Hammett <wispawirel...@ics-il.net>
wrote:

> *clears throat*
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
>
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Marco Coelho" <coelh...@gmail.com>
> *To: *"WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> *Sent: *Thursday, July 14, 2016 3:18:59 PM
> *Subject: *[WISPA] FM Radio interference
>
> I have an existing tower that has a FM transmitter on it.  I believe they
> are just under 10,000 Watts.
> Since we have been one that tower, I could never link up Ethernet that
> runs up the tower to the equipment on the bottom at 100BT.  I've tried
> ferrite rings on both ends, all cables are shielded and grounded.  Always
> had to go to 10BT to get a link.
>
> I moved our radios 35 feet away from the bottom their antennas and still
> cannot link at 100BT.
>
> The new radios require 1000BT too use them to full advantage.  Ideas?
>
> I'm considering conduit all the way up the tower.  I don't want to put
> switches at the top.
>
>
>
> --
> Marco C. Coelho
> Argon Technologies Inc.
> POB 875
> Greenville, TX 75403-0875
> 903-455-5036
>
> ___
> Wireless mailing list
> Wireless@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>
> ___
> Wireless mailing list
> Wireless@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Mike Hammett]

*clears throat* 




- 
Mike Hammett 

Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Marco Coelho" <coelh...@gmail.com> 
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> 
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 3:18:59 PM 
Subject: [WISPA] FM Radio interference 






I have an existing tower that has a FM transmitter on it. I believe they are 
just under 10,000 Watts. 
Since we have been one that tower, I could never link up Ethernet that runs up 
the tower to the equipment on the bottom at 100BT. I've tried ferrite rings on 
both ends, all cables are shielded and grounded. Always had to go to 10BT to 
get a link. 

I moved our radios 35 feet away from the bottom their antennas and still cannot 
link at 100BT. 

The new radios require 1000BT too use them to full advantage. Ideas? 

I'm considering conduit all the way up the tower. I don't want to put switches 
at the top. 








-- 

Marco C. Coelho 
Argon Technologies Inc. 
POB 875 
Greenville, TX 75403-0875 
903-455-5036 
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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Chad Pope]

I have had the same issue on multiple FM towers and on those tower we have
switched to Cat6 shielded cable and it had solved most of our ether net
issues.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016, 5:10 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> i prefer liquidtight because the metal shield is protected by an outside
> coating.  this keeps it both water tight and prevents it from becoming a
> giant conductor should it happen to touch a live wire somehow.
>
> you can buy it at any local electrical supply shop
>
> -sean
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Nick Bright 
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/14/2016 3:43 PM, Nick Bright wrote:
>> > On 7/14/2016 3:35 PM, Shawn C. Peppers wrote:
>> >> Fiber with direct dc power to a edgepoint that is inside a metal
>> enclosure.  Save yourself the hassle because you will always have problems
>> if you do not.  Put your cables out of the edgepoint to the radios in
>> flexible EMT or MC conduct.
>> >>
>> >> Shawn C. Peppers
>> > That's probably the best solution, over using ferrites.
>> >
>> > There is also the option of CAT5e with corrugated copper shielding, but
>> > MC conduit would be cheaper.
>> >
>> For anybody wondering, it looks like this type of armoring without
>> pre-installed copper wires is referred to as "Flexible EMT" not MC.
>>
>> There are both Aluminum and Steel products available
>>
>>
>> http://www.homedepot.com/p/AFC-Cable-Systems-3-4-in-x-100-ft-Flexible-Aluminum-Conduit-5603-30-AFC/204847343
>>
>>
>> http://www.homedepot.com/p/AFC-Cable-Systems-1-2-in-x-100-ft-Flexible-Steel-Conduit-5502-30-AFC/204847339
>>
>>
>> http://www.homedepot.com/p/AFC-Cable-Systems-3-8-in-x-100-ft-Flexible-Steel-Conduit-5501-30-AFC/205070919
>>
>> 3/4" should fit 4 or maybe 5 shielded cat5e cables. It looks like, from
>> the specs, a single shireen 5e shielded cable would fit with about .2"
>> extra room in the 3/8" version.
>>
>> Shaun, what are your thoughts of liquid tight vs standard? Which do you
>> use? Does anybody see any issues with capacitance changes in the
>> shielding when it's wet, if not using liquid tight?
>>
>> --
>> ---
>> -  Nick Bright-
>> -  Vice President of Technology   -
>> -  Valnet -=- We Connect You -=-  -
>> -  Tel 888-332-1616 x 315 / Fax 620-331-0789  -
>> -  Web http://www.valnet.net/ -
>> ---
>> - Are your files safe?-
>> - Valnet Vault - Secure Cloud Backup  -
>> - More information & 30 day free trial at -
>> - http://www.valnet.net/services/valnet-vault -
>> ---
>>
>> This email message and any attachments are intended solely for the use of
>> the addressees hereof. This message and any attachments may contain
>> information that is confidential, privileged and exempt from disclosure
>> under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this
>> message, you are prohibited from reading, disclosing, reproducing,
>> distributing, disseminating or otherwise using this transmission. If you
>> have received this message in error, please promptly notify the sender by
>> reply E-mail and immediately delete this message from your system.
>>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Sean Heskett]

i prefer liquidtight because the metal shield is protected by an outside
coating.  this keeps it both water tight and prevents it from becoming a
giant conductor should it happen to touch a live wire somehow.

you can buy it at any local electrical supply shop

-sean

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Nick Bright  wrote:

> On 7/14/2016 3:43 PM, Nick Bright wrote:
> > On 7/14/2016 3:35 PM, Shawn C. Peppers wrote:
> >> Fiber with direct dc power to a edgepoint that is inside a metal
> enclosure.  Save yourself the hassle because you will always have problems
> if you do not.  Put your cables out of the edgepoint to the radios in
> flexible EMT or MC conduct.
> >>
> >> Shawn C. Peppers
> > That's probably the best solution, over using ferrites.
> >
> > There is also the option of CAT5e with corrugated copper shielding, but
> > MC conduit would be cheaper.
> >
> For anybody wondering, it looks like this type of armoring without
> pre-installed copper wires is referred to as "Flexible EMT" not MC.
>
> There are both Aluminum and Steel products available
>
>
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/AFC-Cable-Systems-3-4-in-x-100-ft-Flexible-Aluminum-Conduit-5603-30-AFC/204847343
>
>
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/AFC-Cable-Systems-1-2-in-x-100-ft-Flexible-Steel-Conduit-5502-30-AFC/204847339
>
>
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/AFC-Cable-Systems-3-8-in-x-100-ft-Flexible-Steel-Conduit-5501-30-AFC/205070919
>
> 3/4" should fit 4 or maybe 5 shielded cat5e cables. It looks like, from
> the specs, a single shireen 5e shielded cable would fit with about .2"
> extra room in the 3/8" version.
>
> Shaun, what are your thoughts of liquid tight vs standard? Which do you
> use? Does anybody see any issues with capacitance changes in the
> shielding when it's wet, if not using liquid tight?
>
> --
> ---
> -  Nick Bright-
> -  Vice President of Technology   -
> -  Valnet -=- We Connect You -=-  -
> -  Tel 888-332-1616 x 315 / Fax 620-331-0789  -
> -  Web http://www.valnet.net/ -
> ---
> - Are your files safe?-
> - Valnet Vault - Secure Cloud Backup  -
> - More information & 30 day free trial at -
> - http://www.valnet.net/services/valnet-vault -
> ---
>
> This email message and any attachments are intended solely for the use of
> the addressees hereof. This message and any attachments may contain
> information that is confidential, privileged and exempt from disclosure
> under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of this
> message, you are prohibited from reading, disclosing, reproducing,
> distributing, disseminating or otherwise using this transmission. If you
> have received this message in error, please promptly notify the sender by
> reply E-mail and immediately delete this message from your system.
>
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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Nick Bright]

I knocked up a quick shopping list at Home Depot, even including all the 
fittings it's not bad. The OD on 3/4" Flex EMT is a little more than 1", 
so around $200 plus the cost of hangars for a full 300ft of tower height.

While not cheap, it's not an overly expensive solution either.

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---
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-  Valnet -=- We Connect You -=-  -
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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Nick Bright]

On 7/14/2016 3:43 PM, Nick Bright wrote:
> On 7/14/2016 3:35 PM, Shawn C. Peppers wrote:
>> Fiber with direct dc power to a edgepoint that is inside a metal enclosure.  
>> Save yourself the hassle because you will always have problems if you do 
>> not.  Put your cables out of the edgepoint to the radios in flexible EMT or 
>> MC conduct.
>>
>> Shawn C. Peppers
> That's probably the best solution, over using ferrites.
>
> There is also the option of CAT5e with corrugated copper shielding, but
> MC conduit would be cheaper.
>
For anybody wondering, it looks like this type of armoring without 
pre-installed copper wires is referred to as "Flexible EMT" not MC.

There are both Aluminum and Steel products available

http://www.homedepot.com/p/AFC-Cable-Systems-3-4-in-x-100-ft-Flexible-Aluminum-Conduit-5603-30-AFC/204847343

http://www.homedepot.com/p/AFC-Cable-Systems-1-2-in-x-100-ft-Flexible-Steel-Conduit-5502-30-AFC/204847339

http://www.homedepot.com/p/AFC-Cable-Systems-3-8-in-x-100-ft-Flexible-Steel-Conduit-5501-30-AFC/205070919

3/4" should fit 4 or maybe 5 shielded cat5e cables. It looks like, from 
the specs, a single shireen 5e shielded cable would fit with about .2" 
extra room in the 3/8" version.

Shaun, what are your thoughts of liquid tight vs standard? Which do you 
use? Does anybody see any issues with capacitance changes in the 
shielding when it's wet, if not using liquid tight?

-- 
---
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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Nick Bright]

On 7/14/2016 3:35 PM, Shawn C. Peppers wrote:
> Fiber with direct dc power to a edgepoint that is inside a metal enclosure.  
> Save yourself the hassle because you will always have problems if you do not. 
>  Put your cables out of the edgepoint to the radios in flexible EMT or MC 
> conduct.
>
> Shawn C. Peppers
Do you know of a source to get MC without the copper pre-installed? What 
do you find is a good size for one cable? Do you use standard electrical 
junctions to consolidate them into a larger MC for the vertical run?

e.g. use a large (perhaps solid) conduit to get to the top, then break 
out to MC for each individual unit?

I'm interested in trying this strategy to compare it to ferrite chokes, 
which I have had good success with - when installed properly - but it is 
not a perfect solution, as sometimes link rates will still drop to 
10Mbps. I have to keep a script running on my routers to bounce the port 
if it drops to 10Mbps, which isn't very often.

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-  Web http://www.valnet.net/ -
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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Jim Patient]

Find out the exact frequency of the FM transmitter.  Be sure none of your cable 
lengths are a multiple of the frequency and end up as an antenna.   They can 
also cross a harmonic and pick up noise as well.  The radio engineer for the FM 
site can tell you what lengths NOT to make your cables.  A 12” difference in a 
cable length could make a world of difference in noise.

Not sure if this is the issue but I have had this issue before where one of the 
cables was acting as an antenna.

Jim

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Marco Coelho
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 3:19 PM
To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org>
Subject: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

I have an existing tower that has a FM transmitter on it.  I believe they are 
just under 10,000 Watts.
Since we have been one that tower, I could never link up Ethernet that runs up 
the tower to the equipment on the bottom at 100BT.  I've tried ferrite rings on 
both ends, all cables are shielded and grounded.  Always had to go to 10BT to 
get a link.
I moved our radios 35 feet away from the bottom their antennas and still cannot 
link at 100BT.
The new radios require 1000BT too use them to full advantage.  Ideas?
I'm considering conduit all the way up the tower.  I don't want to put switches 
at the top.



--
Marco C. Coelho
Argon Technologies Inc.
POB 875
Greenville, TX 75403-0875
903-455-5036
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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Dan Petermann]

I’ve used ferrite beads designed for the FM frequency in use and placed them at 
1/4 wave intervals on the ethernet (shielded). We haven’t had a problem since, 
but the run is fairly short. 


On Jul 14, 2016, at 2:18 PM, Marco Coelho  wrote:

> I have an existing tower that has a FM transmitter on it.  I believe they are 
> just under 10,000 Watts.
> Since we have been one that tower, I could never link up Ethernet that runs 
> up the tower to the equipment on the bottom at 100BT.  I've tried ferrite 
> rings on both ends, all cables are shielded and grounded.  Always had to go 
> to 10BT to get a link.  
> 
> I moved our radios 35 feet away from the bottom their antennas and still 
> cannot link at 100BT.
> 
> The new radios require 1000BT too use them to full advantage.  Ideas?
> 
> I'm considering conduit all the way up the tower.  I don't want to put 
> switches at the top.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Marco C. Coelho
> Argon Technologies Inc.
> POB 875
> Greenville, TX 75403-0875
> 903-455-5036
> ___
> Wireless mailing list
> Wireless@wispa.org
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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Nick Bright]

On 7/14/2016 3:35 PM, Shawn C. Peppers wrote:
> Fiber with direct dc power to a edgepoint that is inside a metal enclosure.  
> Save yourself the hassle because you will always have problems if you do not. 
>  Put your cables out of the edgepoint to the radios in flexible EMT or MC 
> conduct.
>
> Shawn C. Peppers
That's probably the best solution, over using ferrites.

There is also the option of CAT5e with corrugated copper shielding, but 
MC conduit would be cheaper.

-- 
---
-  Nick Bright-
-  Vice President of Technology   -
-  Valnet -=- We Connect You -=-  -
-  Tel 888-332-1616 x 315 / Fax 620-331-0789  -
-  Web http://www.valnet.net/ -
---
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- Valnet Vault - Secure Cloud Backup  -
- More information & 30 day free trial at -
- http://www.valnet.net/services/valnet-vault -
---

This email message and any attachments are intended solely for the use of the 
addressees hereof. This message and any attachments may contain information 
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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Shawn C. Peppers]

Fiber with direct dc power to a edgepoint that is inside a metal enclosure.  
Save yourself the hassle because you will always have problems if you do not.  
Put your cables out of the edgepoint to the radios in flexible EMT or MC 
conduct.

Shawn C. Peppers
Video Direct Satellite & Entertainment
866-680-8433 Toll Free
480-287-9960 Fax
http://www.video-direct.tv

> On Jul 14, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Marco Coelho  wrote:
> 
> I have an existing tower that has a FM transmitter on it.  I believe they are 
> just under 10,000 Watts.
> Since we have been one that tower, I could never link up Ethernet that runs 
> up the tower to the equipment on the bottom at 100BT.  I've tried ferrite 
> rings on both ends, all cables are shielded and grounded.  Always had to go 
> to 10BT to get a link.  
> 
> I moved our radios 35 feet away from the bottom their antennas and still 
> cannot link at 100BT.
> 
> The new radios require 1000BT too use them to full advantage.  Ideas?
> 
> I'm considering conduit all the way up the tower.  I don't want to put 
> switches at the top.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Marco C. Coelho
> Argon Technologies Inc.
> POB 875
> Greenville, TX 75403-0875
> 903-455-5036
> ___
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> Wireless@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Nick Bright]

I've had similar experiences at FM sites. The basic issue is that many 
FM transmitters have a spurious spike about 1MHz wide right around 
32MHz. Since 100Mbps and 1000Mbps ethernet use a base frequency of 
32.5MHz, this is what causes your issue. If this spurious emission from 
the transmitter has enough power, it will drop your links to 10Mbps.


>I moved our radios 35 feet away from the bottom their antennas and 
still cannot link at 100BT.

I always try to be 30+ft away, so that should be a reasonable distance.

> I've tried ferrite rings on both ends, all cables are shielded and 
grounded.


We also use fully shielded and grounded cables. By this I mean Shireen 
with RF armor ends, and McCowan surge suppressors at the top, grounded 
to the tower frame. We don't use any other special grounding mechanisms 
(such as grounding the CAT5 shield using an LMR200 grounding kit - which 
I've had suggested before, but never tried).


What we have found to be a successful tactic is using Ferrites - 
however, it can't be just any ferrite, and it has to be installed in a 
specific way.


We use a FAIR-RITE Type 44 snap-on (TYpe 43 or Type 44 are acceptable):
http://www.kregercomponents.com/fair-rite-products/0444164281

The solid equivalent is 2643540002 but you'll have to recrimp your 
cables to use them. It does have higher impedance than the snap-on 
units, though, so there is a slight benefit.


You must fully weatherproof these, or freeze/thaw will break them off in 
one or two winters!


Next, you need to use enough of them. You must form a continuous line of 
ferrites *for at least 12 inches*. One single ferrite _is not 
sufficient_. We use TEN units on each end of the cable.


Next, you need to put them in the right place: The continuous line of 
ferrites must start _no further than 10cm from the termination point_ of 
the cable.


We have had repeatable success with this method at several FM sites. 
It's not perfect, as sometimes a link will still kick down every now and 
then, but it makes the problem a lot more tolerable. I suspect that more 
chokes would reduce the frequency of "every now and then".


On 7/14/2016 3:18 PM, Marco Coelho wrote:
I have an existing tower that has a FM transmitter on it.  I believe 
they are just under 10,000 Watts.
Since we have been one that tower, I could never link up Ethernet that 
runs up the tower to the equipment on the bottom at 100BT.  I've tried 
ferrite rings on both ends, all cables are shielded and grounded.  
Always had to go to 10BT to get a link.


I moved our radios 35 feet away from the bottom their antennas and 
still cannot link at 100BT.


The new radios require 1000BT too use them to full advantage. Ideas?

I'm considering conduit all the way up the tower.  I don't want to put 
switches at the top.




--
Marco C. Coelho
Argon Technologies Inc.
POB 875
Greenville, TX 75403-0875
903-455-5036


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Re: [WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Sean Heskett]

we have had good luck with shielded cable inside liquidtight conduit, but
even then sometimes it doesn't work.

fiber is the only way to truly "fix" the problem.

also we could that grounding the cables only at the bottom helped (instead
of at the top and bottom).

-sean


On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Marco Coelho  wrote:

> I have an existing tower that has a FM transmitter on it.  I believe they
> are just under 10,000 Watts.
> Since we have been one that tower, I could never link up Ethernet that
> runs up the tower to the equipment on the bottom at 100BT.  I've tried
> ferrite rings on both ends, all cables are shielded and grounded.  Always
> had to go to 10BT to get a link.
>
> I moved our radios 35 feet away from the bottom their antennas and still
> cannot link at 100BT.
>
> The new radios require 1000BT too use them to full advantage.  Ideas?
>
> I'm considering conduit all the way up the tower.  I don't want to put
> switches at the top.
>
>
>
> --
> Marco C. Coelho
> Argon Technologies Inc.
> POB 875
> Greenville, TX 75403-0875
> 903-455-5036
>
> ___
> Wireless mailing list
> Wireless@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>
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[WISPA] FM Radio interference

[Marco Coelho]

I have an existing tower that has a FM transmitter on it.  I believe they
are just under 10,000 Watts.
Since we have been one that tower, I could never link up Ethernet that runs
up the tower to the equipment on the bottom at 100BT.  I've tried ferrite
rings on both ends, all cables are shielded and grounded.  Always had to go
to 10BT to get a link.

I moved our radios 35 feet away from the bottom their antennas and still
cannot link at 100BT.

The new radios require 1000BT too use them to full advantage.  Ideas?

I'm considering conduit all the way up the tower.  I don't want to put
switches at the top.



-- 
Marco C. Coelho
Argon Technologies Inc.
POB 875
Greenville, TX 75403-0875
903-455-5036
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