Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
Not the same when you are a router manufacturer… Gino A. Villarini President Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. www.aeronetpr.com @aeronetpr From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netmailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 at 6:05 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF How many WISPs have heard of MEF or CE or even VPLS? So... have you asked for it yet? :-p supp...@mikrotik.commailto:supp...@mikrotik.com - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.commailto:g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:00:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF They are a router vendor and didn't knew about MEF...??? Are you f...kng kidding me??? Sheesh! They do live in a bubble...I guess that's one of the reasons they have not grown out of the wisp market Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 5:47 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netmailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: They had never heard of it before and I'm the only one that has ever brought it up to them. Trying to convince them now to do the work. At the last US MUM, they were saying to e-mail them with requests and enhancements. Since they said no one has before, I invite you all to. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.commailto:g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 3:39:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF And they agreed? Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netmailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: E-mail Mikrotik support and ask them to obtain MEF certification. For those that don't know what MEF is, it's what the big boys have for all of the gear they use. http://metroethernetforum.org/certification/equipment-certification-overview http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications Y.1731 is a big thing to my prospective clients to document the performance of circuits I provide. https://metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Presentation/Overview_of_the_Work_of_the_MEF_20130610.pptx - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.orgmailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.orgmailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.orgmailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.orgmailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
Okay my 2 cents - and I'm largely taking my vendor hat off here. So something to add to the offlist discussion I had with Mike (some Latvian companies have heard of MEF, and already have roadmaped Y.1731 in their Integra radios)... there is A LOT of certifications for MEF... http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications OAM is just one part of the puzzle. I'm sure Mikrotik, just like many manufacturers, could say we are MEF compliant (and we (SAF) already are on things like 9 14). Certification costs A LOT of money. Just joining the organization is $15,000 USD annually. So for a WISP focused manufacturer (and Mikrotik isn't the only router manufacturer focused on WISP's right?) spending the huge sums without seeing there will be a return (how many people are building OAM into their networks... probably a handful here) isn't worth the investment. So make it worth the investment. :-) Carrier Ethernet is many things, it's not just one thing. And what it is has different definitions to different people. Metro Ethernet Forum (MEF) or ITU-T (International Telecommunications Union) or IEEE (Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers) is not a specific thing... but a lot of things. Y.1731 is actually an ITU-T recommendation, similar to IEEE 802.1AG. MEF has an interpretation of Y.1731 included in MEF 17, 30.1, 31, 31.0.1, 35, 35.0.1, 35.0.2, 36, 38, and 39 with test suites 21 and 25. SAF tends to stick to ITU and IEEE certifications. But since MEF develops their recommendations from them, we are usually compliant. An argument could be made that MEF is an organization made up to line the pockets of a small few by charging exorbitant rates to get equipment or networks certified based on standards created by ITU and IEEE. Kinda like a good ol' boys club (together we set the standard, and I promise I'll buy a lot after we charge you this large amount of money for Certification to block your competition)... Usually on the Tier 1 networks require certification, which happen to be the ones that created MEF to begin with (and also the vendors that tend to be heavily involved). Of course anyone can join MEF and get certification... but the cost barrier to entry is high. My point being - make sure to be specific to any manufacturer what you are asking for. Don't say you need carrier Ethernet or you need MEF compliance/certification but instead be specific I'd like Y.1731 compliance in your equipment. Point to a specific standard... it helps a lot. Maybe tell them which routerboards specifically need it - some of their hardware probably can't support it (or at least well). Anyways I promise the inner-core of Mikrotik has heard of MEF. But all manufacturers engineer towards demand (or perceived demand in the case of more visionary ideas) because that is how we make money. I can't promise everyone in sales, engineering, or tech support at SAF know what MEF is... but I promise the people that work on our Ethernet stack, that work in Ethernet product development (why does an RF engineer need to know what MEF is?), and work in our testing department know. [cid:image001.jpg@01CE2975.BD4B6370] Daniel White | Managing Director SAF North America LLC Cell: (303) 746-3590 Skype: danieldwhite E-mail: daniel.wh...@saftehnika.commailto:daniel.wh...@saftehnika.com SAF Tehnika Integra Introduction Video - http://youtu.be/xqrXOq4Uzgg Spectrum Compact Introduction Video - http://youtu.be/2GoNP974B4k [cid:40B6B97A-78D8-4322-9584-2247AEDCEC32] https://www.facebook.com/SAFTehnika [cid:C62FF935-06DE-41B5-8D9C-6CDF5978E509] https://twitter.com/SAFTehnika [cid:A57FE05F-BC56-4980-982F-1E3DA8E28EBE] http://www.linkedin.com/company/saf-tehnika-jsc [cid:0F4D1499-0C92-4A56-9097-3F468F84263A] http://www.youtube.com/user/SAFTehnika SAF Tehnika JSC www.saftehnika.comapplewebdata://BB026C49-6C28-4CBB-9885-D4B87260AB34/www.saftehnika.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 2:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF Not the same when you are a router manufacturer... Gino A. Villarini President Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. www.aeronetpr.comhttp://www.aeronetpr.com @aeronetpr From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netmailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 at 6:05 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF How many WISPs have heard of MEF or CE or even VPLS? So... have you asked for it yet? :-p supp...@mikrotik.commailto:supp...@mikrotik.com - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.commailto:g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
So then what do you guys think should be the desired functionality, standards, etc. we'd want out of MEF\CE in a WISP router? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Daniel White daniel.wh...@saftehnika.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 7:34:45 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF Okay my 2 cents – and I’m largely taking my vendor hat off here. So something to add to the offlist discussion I had with Mike (some Latvian companies have heard of MEF, and already have roadmaped Y.1731 in their Integra radios)… there is A LOT of certifications for MEF… http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications OAM is just one part of the puzzle. I’m sure Mikrotik, just like many manufacturers, could say we are MEF compliant (and we (SAF) already are on things like 9 14). Certification costs A LOT of money. Just joining the organization is $15,000 USD annually. So for a WISP focused manufacturer (and Mikrotik isn’t the only router manufacturer focused on WISP’s right?) spending the huge sums without seeing there will be a return (how many people are building OAM into their networks… probably a handful here) isn’t worth the investment. So make it worth the investment. :-) Carrier Ethernet is many things, it’s not just one thing. And what it is has different definitions to different people. Metro Ethernet Forum (MEF) or ITU-T (International Telecommunications Union) or IEEE (Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers) is not a specific thing… but a lot of things. Y.1731 is actually an ITU-T recommendation, similar to IEEE 802.1AG. MEF has an interpretation of Y.1731 included in MEF 17, 30.1, 31, 31.0.1, 35, 35.0.1, 35.0.2, 36, 38, and 39 with test suites 21 and 25. SAF tends to stick to ITU and IEEE certifications. But since MEF develops their recommendations from them, we are usually compliant. An argument could be made that MEF is an organization made up to line the pockets of a small few by charging exorbitant rates to get equipment or networks certified based on standards created by ITU and IEEE. Kinda like a good ol’ boys club (together we set the standard, and I promise I’ll buy a lot after we charge you this large amount of money for “Certification” to block your competition)… Usually on the Tier 1 networks require certification, which happen to be the ones that created MEF to begin with (and also the vendors that tend to be heavily involved). Of course anyone can join MEF and get certification… but the cost barrier to entry is high. My point being – make sure to be specific to any manufacturer what you are asking for. Don’t say “you need carrier Ethernet” or “you need MEF compliance/certification” but instead be specific “I’d like Y.1731 compliance in your equipment.” Point to a specific standard… it helps a lot. Maybe tell them which routerboards specifically need it – some of their hardware probably can’t support it (or at least well). Anyways I promise the inner-core of Mikrotik has heard of MEF. But all manufacturers engineer towards demand (or perceived demand in the case of more visionary ideas) because that is how we make money. I can’t promise everyone in sales, engineering, or tech support at SAF know what MEF is… but I promise the people that work on our Ethernet stack, that work in Ethernet product development (why does an RF engineer need to know what MEF is?), and work in our testing department know. cid:image001.jpg@01CE2975.BD4B6370 Daniel White | Managing Director SAF North America LLC Cell: (303) 746-3590 Skype: danieldwhite E-mail: daniel.wh...@saftehnika.com SAF Tehnika Integra Introduction Video – http://youtu.be/xqrXOq4Uzgg Spectrum Compact Introduction Video – http://youtu.be/2GoNP974B4k cid:40B6B97A-78D8-4322-9584-2247AEDCEC32cid:C62FF935-06DE-41B5-8D9C-6CDF5978E509cid:A57FE05F-BC56-4980-982F-1E3DA8E28EBEcid:0F4D1499-0C92-4A56-9097-3F468F84263A SAF Tehnika JSC www.saftehnika.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 2:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF Not the same when you are a router manufacturer… Gino A. Villarini President Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. www.aeronetpr.com @aeronetpr From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 at 6:05 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF How many WISPs have heard of MEF or CE or even VPLS? So... have you asked for it yet? :-p supp...@mikrotik.com - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
Packet transport (eline,ertree ect) and OAM Gino A. Villarini President Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. www.aeronetpr.com @aeronetpr From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netmailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 at 9:45 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF So then what do you guys think should be the desired functionality, standards, etc. we'd want out of MEF\CE in a WISP router? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Daniel White daniel.wh...@saftehnika.commailto:daniel.wh...@saftehnika.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 7:34:45 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF Okay my 2 cents – and I’m largely taking my vendor hat off here. So something to add to the offlist discussion I had with Mike (some Latvian companies have heard of MEF, and already have roadmaped Y.1731 in their Integra radios)… there is A LOT of certifications for MEF… http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications OAM is just one part of the puzzle. I’m sure Mikrotik, just like many manufacturers, could say we are MEF compliant (and we (SAF) already are on things like 9 14). Certification costs A LOT of money. Just joining the organization is $15,000 USD annually. So for a WISP focused manufacturer (and Mikrotik isn’t the only router manufacturer focused on WISP’s right?) spending the huge sums without seeing there will be a return (how many people are building OAM into their networks… probably a handful here) isn’t worth the investment. So make it worth the investment. :-) Carrier Ethernet is many things, it’s not just one thing. And what it is has different definitions to different people. Metro Ethernet Forum (MEF) or ITU-T (International Telecommunications Union) or IEEE (Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers) is not a specific thing… but a lot of things. Y.1731 is actually an ITU-T recommendation, similar to IEEE 802.1AG. MEF has an interpretation of Y.1731 included in MEF 17, 30.1, 31, 31.0.1, 35, 35.0.1, 35.0.2, 36, 38, and 39 with test suites 21 and 25. SAF tends to stick to ITU and IEEE certifications. But since MEF develops their recommendations from them, we are usually compliant. An argument could be made that MEF is an organization made up to line the pockets of a small few by charging exorbitant rates to get equipment or networks certified based on standards created by ITU and IEEE. Kinda like a good ol’ boys club (together we set the standard, and I promise I’ll buy a lot after we charge you this large amount of money for “Certification” to block your competition)… Usually on the Tier 1 networks require certification, which happen to be the ones that created MEF to begin with (and also the vendors that tend to be heavily involved). Of course anyone can join MEF and get certification… but the cost barrier to entry is high. My point being – make sure to be specific to any manufacturer what you are asking for. Don’t say “you need carrier Ethernet” or “you need MEF compliance/certification” but instead be specific “I’d like Y.1731 compliance in your equipment.” Point to a specific standard… it helps a lot. Maybe tell them which routerboards specifically need it – some of their hardware probably can’t support it (or at least well). Anyways I promise the inner-core of Mikrotik has heard of MEF. But all manufacturers engineer towards demand (or perceived demand in the case of more visionary ideas) because that is how we make money. I can’t promise everyone in sales, engineering, or tech support at SAF know what MEF is… but I promise the people that work on our Ethernet stack, that work in Ethernet product development (why does an RF engineer need to know what MEF is?), and work in our testing department know. [cid:image001.jpg@01CE2975.BD4B6370] Daniel White | Managing Director SAF North America LLC Cell: (303) 746-3590 Skype: danieldwhite E-mail: daniel.wh...@saftehnika.commailto:daniel.wh...@saftehnika.com SAF Tehnika Integra Introduction Video –http://youtu.be/xqrXOq4Uzgg Spectrum Compact Introduction Video – http://youtu.be/2GoNP974B4k [cid:40B6B97A-78D8-4322-9584-2247AEDCEC32] https://www.facebook.com/SAFTehnika [cid:C62FF935-06DE-41B5-8D9C-6CDF5978E509] https://twitter.com/SAFTehnika [cid:A57FE05F-BC56-4980-982F-1E3DA8E28EBE] http://www.linkedin.com/company/saf-tehnika-jsc [cid:0F4D1499-0C92-4A56-9097-3F468F84263A] http://www.youtube.com/user/SAFTehnika SAF Tehnika JSC www.saftehnika.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.orgmailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 2:23 AM To: WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
On 12/31/2014 8:45 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: So then what do you guys think should be the desired functionality, standards, etc. we'd want out of MEF\CE in a WISP router? Interesting point Dan made about the price of certification. Not that it's outrageous as these things go, but it's a cost that needs justification. The MEF 9 and 14 specs are key, to be compliant even if not certified. It's the ability to provision virtual circuits (by whatever name) between points on a network, with settable CIR and defined delay variance. Contrast with MPLS, which sets relative priorities but (except for the -TE variant) doesn't have actual rates, and yet is more complicated. Carrier Ethernet is relatively simple. In fact it's so simple that even Verizon can provision it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com *From: *Daniel White daniel.wh...@saftehnika.com *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Wednesday, December 31, 2014 7:34:45 AM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF Okay my 2 cents – and I’m largely taking my vendor hat off here. So something to add to the offlist discussion I had with Mike (some Latvian companies have heard of MEF, and already have roadmaped Y.1731 in their Integra radios)… there is A LOT of certifications for MEF… http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications OAM is just one part of the puzzle. I’m sure Mikrotik, just like many manufacturers, could say we are MEF compliant (and we (SAF) already are on things like 9 14). Certification costs A LOT of money. Just joining the organization is $15,000 USD annually. So for a WISP focused manufacturer (and Mikrotik isn’t the only router manufacturer focused on WISP’s right?) spending the huge sums without seeing there will be a return (how many people are building OAM into their networks… probably a handful here) isn’t worth the investment. So make it worth the investment. :-) Carrier Ethernet is many things, it’s not just one thing. And what it is has different definitions to different people. Metro Ethernet Forum (MEF) or ITU-T (International Telecommunications Union) or IEEE (Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers) is not a specific thing… but a lot of things. Y.1731 is actually an ITU-T recommendation, similar to IEEE 802.1AG. MEF has an interpretation of Y.1731 included in MEF 17, 30.1, 31, 31.0.1, 35, 35.0.1, 35.0.2, 36, 38, and 39 with test suites 21 and 25. SAF tends to stick to ITU and IEEE certifications. But since MEF develops their recommendations from them, we are usually compliant. An argument could be made that MEF is an organization made up to line the pockets of a small few by charging exorbitant rates to get equipment or networks certified based on standards created by ITU and IEEE. Kinda like a good ol’ boys club (together we set the standard, and I promise I’ll buy a lot after we charge you this large amount of money for “Certification” to block your competition)… Usually on the Tier 1 networks require certification, which happen to be the ones that created MEF to begin with (and also the vendors that tend to be heavily involved). Of course anyone can join MEF and get certification… but the cost barrier to entry is high. My point being – make sure to be specific to any manufacturer what you are asking for. Don’t say “you need carrier Ethernet” or “you need MEF compliance/certification” but instead be specific “I’d like Y.1731 compliance in your equipment.” Point to a specific standard… it helps a lot. Maybe tell them which routerboards specifically need it – some of their hardware probably can’t support it (or at least well). Anyways I promise the inner-core of Mikrotik has heard of MEF. But all manufacturers engineer towards demand (or perceived demand in the case of more visionary ideas) because that is how we make money. I can’t promise everyone in sales, engineering, or tech support at SAF know what MEF is… but I promise the people that work on our Ethernet stack, that work in Ethernet product development (why does an RF engineer need to know what MEF is?), and work in our testing department know. cid:image001.jpg@01CE2975.BD4B6370 *Daniel White* | Managing Director */SAF North America LLC/**//* ** *Cell:*** (303) 746-3590 *Skype:*** danieldwhite *E-mail:*** _daniel.wh...@saftehnika.com mailto:daniel.wh...@saftehnika.com _ */SAF Tehnika Integra Introduction Video –/*///_http://youtu.be/xqrXOq4Uzgg_/ */Spectrum Compact Introduction Video – /*/http://youtu.be/2GoNP974B4k/ cid:40B6B97A-78D8-4322-9584-2247AEDCEC32 https://www.facebook.com/SAFTehnikacid:C62FF935-06DE-41B5-8D9C-6CDF5978E509 https://twitter.com/SAFTehnikacid:A57FE05F-BC56-4980-982F-1E3DA8E28EBE http://www.linkedin.com/company/saf-tehnika-jsccid:0F4D1499-0C92-4A56
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
At 15:29 31.12.2014, you wrote: In fact it's so simple that even Verizon can provision it. +1 from a Verizon Reseller. ;-) ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
[WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
E-mail Mikrotik support and ask them to obtain MEF certification. For those that don't know what MEF is, it's what the big boys have for all of the gear they use. http://metroethernetforum.org/certification/equipment-certification-overview http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications Y.1731 is a big thing to my prospective clients to document the performance of circuits I provide. https://metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Presentation/Overview_of_the_Work_of_the_MEF_20130610.pptx - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
And they agreed? Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netmailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: E-mail Mikrotik support and ask them to obtain MEF certification. For those that don't know what MEF is, it's what the big boys have for all of the gear they use. http://metroethernetforum.org/certification/equipment-certification-overview http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications Y.1731 is a big thing to my prospective clients to document the performance of circuits I provide. https://metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Presentation/Overview_of_the_Work_of_the_MEF_20130610.pptx - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.orgmailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
They had never heard of it before and I'm the only one that has ever brought it up to them. Trying to convince them now to do the work. At the last US MUM, they were saying to e-mail them with requests and enhancements. Since they said no one has before, I invite you all to. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 3:39:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF And they agreed? Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: E-mail Mikrotik support and ask them to obtain MEF certification. For those that don't know what MEF is, it's what the big boys have for all of the gear they use. http://metroethernetforum.org/certification/equipment-certification-overview http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications Y.1731 is a big thing to my prospective clients to document the performance of circuits I provide. https://metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Presentation/Overview_of_the_Work_of_the_MEF_20130610.pptx - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
They are a router vendor and didn't knew about MEF...??? Are you f...kng kidding me??? Sheesh! They do live in a bubble...I guess that's one of the reasons they have not grown out of the wisp market Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 5:47 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netmailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: They had never heard of it before and I'm the only one that has ever brought it up to them. Trying to convince them now to do the work. At the last US MUM, they were saying to e-mail them with requests and enhancements. Since they said no one has before, I invite you all to. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.commailto:g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.orgmailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 3:39:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF And they agreed? Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netmailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: E-mail Mikrotik support and ask them to obtain MEF certification. For those that don't know what MEF is, it's what the big boys have for all of the gear they use. http://metroethernetforum.org/certification/equipment-certification-overview http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications Y.1731 is a big thing to my prospective clients to document the performance of circuits I provide. https://metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Presentation/Overview_of_the_Work_of_the_MEF_20130610.pptx - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.orgmailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.orgmailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.orgmailto:Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
*Raises hand* On Dec 30, 2014 4:05 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: How many WISPs have heard of MEF or CE or even VPLS? So... have you asked for it yet? :-p supp...@mikrotik.com - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- *From: *Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:00:41 PM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF They are a router vendor and didn't knew about MEF...??? Are you f...kng kidding me??? Sheesh! They do live in a bubble...I guess that's one of the reasons they have not grown out of the wisp market Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 5:47 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: They had never heard of it before and I'm the only one that has ever brought it up to them. Trying to convince them now to do the work. At the last US MUM, they were saying to e-mail them with requests and enhancements. Since they said no one has before, I invite you all to. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- *From: *Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, December 30, 2014 3:39:20 PM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF And they agreed? Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: E-mail Mikrotik support and ask them to obtain MEF certification. For those that don't know what MEF is, it's what the big boys have for all of the gear they use. http://metroethernetforum.org/certification/equipment-certification-overview http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications Y.1731 is a big thing to my prospective clients to document the performance of circuits I provide. https://metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Presentation/Overview_of_the_Work_of_the_MEF_20130610.pptx - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
*high five* - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Adair Winter ada...@amarillowireless.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:07:46 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF *Raises hand* On Dec 30, 2014 4:05 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: How many WISPs have heard of MEF or CE or even VPLS? So... have you asked for it yet? :-p supp...@mikrotik.com - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:00:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF They are a router vendor and didn't knew about MEF...??? Are you f...kng kidding me??? Sheesh! They do live in a bubble...I guess that's one of the reasons they have not grown out of the wisp market Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 5:47 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: blockquote They had never heard of it before and I'm the only one that has ever brought it up to them. Trying to convince them now to do the work. At the last US MUM, they were saying to e-mail them with requests and enhancements. Since they said no one has before, I invite you all to. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 3:39:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF And they agreed? Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: blockquote E-mail Mikrotik support and ask them to obtain MEF certification. For those that don't know what MEF is, it's what the big boys have for all of the gear they use. http://metroethernetforum.org/certification/equipment-certification-overview http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications Y.1731 is a big thing to my prospective clients to document the performance of circuits I provide. https://metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Presentation/Overview_of_the_Work_of_the_MEF_20130610.pptx - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
now to email them. I mean.. what could go wrong trying to get them to implement a brand new feature set they know nothing about??? on the plus side, it should only take a few years to get it added and a few more to get it working well. :) On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: *high five* - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- *From: *Adair Winter ada...@amarillowireless.net *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:07:46 PM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF *Raises hand* On Dec 30, 2014 4:05 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: How many WISPs have heard of MEF or CE or even VPLS? So... have you asked for it yet? :-p supp...@mikrotik.com - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- *From: *Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:00:41 PM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF They are a router vendor and didn't knew about MEF...??? Are you f...kng kidding me??? Sheesh! They do live in a bubble...I guess that's one of the reasons they have not grown out of the wisp market Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 5:47 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: They had never heard of it before and I'm the only one that has ever brought it up to them. Trying to convince them now to do the work. At the last US MUM, they were saying to e-mail them with requests and enhancements. Since they said no one has before, I invite you all to. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- *From: *Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, December 30, 2014 3:39:20 PM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF And they agreed? Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: E-mail Mikrotik support and ask them to obtain MEF certification. For those that don't know what MEF is, it's what the big boys have for all of the gear they use. http://metroethernetforum.org/certification/equipment-certification-overview http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications Y.1731 is a big thing to my prospective clients to document the performance of circuits I provide. https://metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Presentation/Overview_of_the_Work_of_the_MEF_20130610.pptx - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Adair Winter VP, Network Operations / Owner Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 C: 806.231.7180 http://www.amarillowireless.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
If it takes a few years and a few more years to get working, they need all the time they can get! That said, a lot of this is standards of various types people are already doing all over. They aren't reinventing the wheel. Then again, CCR BGP performance. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Adair Winter ada...@amarillowireless.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:12:02 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF now to email them. I mean.. what could go wrong trying to get them to implement a brand new feature set they know nothing about??? on the plus side, it should only take a few years to get it added and a few more to get it working well. :) On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: *high five* - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Adair Winter ada...@amarillowireless.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:07:46 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF *Raises hand* On Dec 30, 2014 4:05 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: blockquote How many WISPs have heard of MEF or CE or even VPLS? So... have you asked for it yet? :-p supp...@mikrotik.com - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:00:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF They are a router vendor and didn't knew about MEF...??? Are you f...kng kidding me??? Sheesh! They do live in a bubble...I guess that's one of the reasons they have not grown out of the wisp market Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 5:47 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: blockquote They had never heard of it before and I'm the only one that has ever brought it up to them. Trying to convince them now to do the work. At the last US MUM, they were saying to e-mail them with requests and enhancements. Since they said no one has before, I invite you all to. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 3:39:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF And they agreed? Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: blockquote E-mail Mikrotik support and ask them to obtain MEF certification. For those that don't know what MEF is, it's what the big boys have for all of the gear they use. http://metroethernetforum.org/certification/equipment-certification-overview http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications Y.1731 is a big thing to my prospective clients to document the performance of circuits I provide. https://metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Presentation/Overview_of_the_Work_of_the_MEF_20130610.pptx - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote -- Adair Winter VP, Network Operations / Owner Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 C: 806.231.7180 http://www.amarillowireless.net ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
Raises hand. :) (Does it count if I worked for a MEF Member / MEF Trainer / MEF Vendor?) On December 30, 2014 1:07:46 PM AKST, Adair Winter ada...@amarillowireless.net wrote: *Raises hand* On Dec 30, 2014 4:05 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: How many WISPs have heard of MEF or CE or even VPLS? So... have you asked for it yet? :-p supp...@mikrotik.com - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- *From: *Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:00:41 PM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF They are a router vendor and didn't knew about MEF...??? Are you f...kng kidding me??? Sheesh! They do live in a bubble...I guess that's one of the reasons they have not grown out of the wisp market Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 5:47 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: They had never heard of it before and I'm the only one that has ever brought it up to them. Trying to convince them now to do the work. At the last US MUM, they were saying to e-mail them with requests and enhancements. Since they said no one has before, I invite you all to. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- *From: *Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, December 30, 2014 3:39:20 PM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF And they agreed? Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: E-mail Mikrotik support and ask them to obtain MEF certification. For those that don't know what MEF is, it's what the big boys have for all of the gear they use. http://metroethernetforum.org/certification/equipment-certification-overview http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications Y.1731 is a big thing to my prospective clients to document the performance of circuits I provide. https://metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Presentation/Overview_of_the_Work_of_the_MEF_20130610.pptx - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
Hands up! Now if only we had a polling engine... *high five* - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- *From: *Adair Winter ada...@amarillowireless.net *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:07:46 PM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF *Raises hand* On Dec 30, 2014 4:05 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: How many WISPs have heard of MEF or CE or even VPLS? So... have you asked for it yet? :-p supp...@mikrotik.com - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- *From: *Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:00:41 PM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF They are a router vendor and didn't knew about MEF...??? Are you f...kng kidding me??? Sheesh! They do live in a bubble...I guess that's one of the reasons they have not grown out of the wisp market Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 5:47 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: They had never heard of it before and I'm the only one that has ever brought it up to them. Trying to convince them now to do the work. At the last US MUM, they were saying to e-mail them with requests and enhancements. Since they said no one has before, I invite you all to. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- *From: *Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent: *Tuesday, December 30, 2014 3:39:20 PM *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF And they agreed? Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: E-mail Mikrotik support and ask them to obtain MEF certification. For those that don't know what MEF is, it's what the big boys have for all of the gear they use. http://metroethernetforum.org/certification/equipment-certification-overview http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications Y.1731 is a big thing to my prospective clients to document the performance of circuits I provide. https://metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Presentation/Overview_of_the_Work_of_the_MEF_20130610.pptx - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
/me slaps Josh with a large trout. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Josh Reynolds j...@spitwspots.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org, Adair Winter ada...@amarillowireless.net Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:28:27 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF Raises hand. :) (Does it count if I worked for a MEF Member / MEF Trainer / MEF Vendor?) On December 30, 2014 1:07:46 PM AKST, Adair Winter ada...@amarillowireless.net wrote: *Raises hand* On Dec 30, 2014 4:05 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: blockquote How many WISPs have heard of MEF or CE or even VPLS? So... have you asked for it yet? :-p supp...@mikrotik.com - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Gino Villariniquo t; g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:00:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF They are a router vendor and didn't knew about MEF...??? Are you f...kng kidding me??? Sheesh! They do live in a bubble...I guess that's one of the reasons they have not grown out of the wisp market Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 5:47 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: blockquote They had never heard of it before and I'm the only one that has ever brought it up to them. Trying to convince them now to do the work. At the last US MUM, they were saying to e-mail them with requests and enhancements. Since they said no one has before, I invite you all to. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 3:39:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF And they agreed? Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: blockquote E-mail Mikrotik support and ask them to obtain MEF certification. For those that don't know what MEF is, it's what the big boys have for all of the gear they use. http://metroethernetforum.org/certification/equipment-certification-overview http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications Y.1731 is a big thing to my prospective clients to document the performance of circuits I provide. https://metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Presentation/Overview_of_the_Work_of_the_MEF_20130610.pptx - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
:O Mmmm trout On December 30, 2014 1:31:27 PM AKST, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: /me slaps Josh with a large trout. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Josh Reynolds j...@spitwspots.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org, Adair Winter ada...@amarillowireless.net Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:28:27 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF Raises hand. :) (Does it count if I worked for a MEF Member / MEF Trainer / MEF Vendor?) On December 30, 2014 1:07:46 PM AKST, Adair Winter ada...@amarillowireless.net wrote: *Raises hand* On Dec 30, 2014 4:05 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: blockquote How many WISPs have heard of MEF or CE or even VPLS? So... have you asked for it yet? :-p supp...@mikrotik.com - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Gino Villariniquo t; g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:00:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF They are a router vendor and didn't knew about MEF...??? Are you f...kng kidding me??? Sheesh! They do live in a bubble...I guess that's one of the reasons they have not grown out of the wisp market Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 5:47 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: blockquote They had never heard of it before and I'm the only one that has ever brought it up to them. Trying to convince them now to do the work. At the last US MUM, they were saying to e-mail them with requests and enhancements. Since they said no one has before, I invite you all to. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 3:39:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF And they agreed? Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: blockquote E-mail Mikrotik support and ask them to obtain MEF certification. For those that don't know what MEF is, it's what the big boys have for all of the gear they use. http://metroethernetforum.org/certification/equipment-certification-overview http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications Y.1731 is a big thing to my prospective clients to document the performance of circuits I provide. https://metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Presentation/Overview_of_the_Work_of_the_MEF_20130610.pptx - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
I don't use MT wireless anymore (well, for new outdoor). Too behind the times. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Tim Way t...@way.vg To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:31:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF Hands up! Now if only we had a polling engine... *high five* - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Adair Winter ada...@amarillowireless.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:07:46 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF *Raises hand* On Dec 30, 2014 4:05 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: How many WISPs have heard of MEF or CE or even VPLS? So... have you asked for it yet? :-p supp...@mikrotik.com - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:00:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF They are a router vendor and didn't knew about MEF...??? Are you f...kng kidding me??? Sheesh! They do live in a bubble...I guess that's one of the reasons they have not grown out of the wisp market Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 5:47 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: blockquote They had never heard of it before and I'm the only one that has ever brought it up to them. Trying to convince them now to do the work. At the last US MUM, they were saying to e-mail them with requests and enhancements. Since they said no one has before, I invite you all to. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 3:39:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF And they agreed? Gino A. Villarini @gvillarini On Dec 30, 2014, at 2:17 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: blockquote E-mail Mikrotik support and ask them to obtain MEF certification. For those that don't know what MEF is, it's what the big boys have for all of the gear they use. http://metroethernetforum.org/certification/equipment-certification-overview http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications Y.1731 is a big thing to my prospective clients to document the performance of circuits I provide. https://metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Presentation/Overview_of_the_Work_of_the_MEF_20130610.pptx - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless /blockquote ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
On 12/30/2014 5:05 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: How many WISPs have heard of MEF or CE or even VPLS? So... have you asked for it yet? :-p supp...@mikrotik.com I may have once asked somebody from MT about it, maybe at a show, and they gave the predicted answer, that they're a *router* company. Sort of like DEC, which was a inicomputer company. Of course MEF has a lot of specs now. They aren't all critical, but support for the basic connection types, with QoS, is what matters. But this is foreign to the whole Linux-router market. Linux is a fossil of the early 1990s, when eye pee was still sort of the new thing, and everything else was assumed to be the enemy, or the eeevull telephone company. RouterOS is basically a lot of lipstick on top of Linux. That world still assumes that connectionless is next to godliness, that QoS is impossible, and that Ethernet is orange hose tied together with MAC-table bridges. For those unfamiliar with it, Carrier Ethernet, which is standardized by the Metro Ethernet Forum, uses the Ethernet frame format to provide a wide range of services that aren't bridging. There's point to point Ethernet Private Line, there's PtMP Ethernet Virtual Private Line, and there's MPtMP LAN emulation. It's usually connection-oriented, using the VLAN tag as the connection ID, not the MAC. It offers CIR+EIR support (three color). It is protocol-agnostic to higher layers. It is manageable. And with the new SPB, it has OSPF routing between network elements, not just RSTP. In other words, it's Ethernet Formatted Frame Relay. And that's good; it's an improvement over the original slow telco FR. It's the fastest-growing area in telecom (it's the new standard for cellular backhaul, for instance). But it's not ideologically part of the Linux/IP family, and people from that world (which includes most WISP suppliers) neither understand it nor understand why it's needed. -- Fred R. Goldstein k1iofred at interisle.net Interisle Consulting Group +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
I agree with about 50% of this. All of the products I know of that run trill or spb or support several MEF levels are Linux based that are driving FPGAs. You also have stuff like this: http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/sklvarjo/y1731/ If you look at cumulus networks, their Linux based stack is driving data center network virtualization forward by giving you a common software platform on abstracted hardware. None of it is MEF, but saying Linux has stagnated on the general network front isn't accurate. It does lack a decent open source carrier stack though, including the MEF pieces and things like MPLS. Thankfully some vendors have stepped into that space... For a price. On December 30, 2014 2:19:40 PM AKST, Fred Goldstein f...@interisle.net wrote: On 12/30/2014 5:05 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: How many WISPs have heard of MEF or CE or even VPLS? So... have you asked for it yet? :-p supp...@mikrotik.com I may have once asked somebody from MT about it, maybe at a show, and they gave the predicted answer, that they're a *router* company. Sort of like DEC, which was a inicomputer company. Of course MEF has a lot of specs now. They aren't all critical, but support for the basic connection types, with QoS, is what matters. But this is foreign to the whole Linux-router market. Linux is a fossil of the early 1990s, when eye pee was still sort of the new thing, and everything else was assumed to be the enemy, or the eeevull telephone company. RouterOS is basically a lot of lipstick on top of Linux. That world still assumes that connectionless is next to godliness, that QoS is impossible, and that Ethernet is orange hose tied together with MAC-table bridges. For those unfamiliar with it, Carrier Ethernet, which is standardized by the Metro Ethernet Forum, uses the Ethernet frame format to provide a wide range of services that aren't bridging. There's point to point Ethernet Private Line, there's PtMP Ethernet Virtual Private Line, and there's MPtMP LAN emulation. It's usually connection-oriented, using the VLAN tag as the connection ID, not the MAC. It offers CIR+EIR support (three color). It is protocol-agnostic to higher layers. It is manageable. And with the new SPB, it has OSPF routing between network elements, not just RSTP. In other words, it's Ethernet Formatted Frame Relay. And that's good; it's an improvement over the original slow telco FR. It's the fastest-growing area in telecom (it's the new standard for cellular backhaul, for instance). But it's not ideologically part of the Linux/IP family, and people from that world (which includes most WISP suppliers) neither understand it nor understand why it's needed. -- Fred R. Goldstein k1iofred at interisle.net Interisle Consulting Group +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
On 12/30/2014 6:41 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote: I agree with about 50% of this. All of the products I know of that run trill or spb or support several MEF levels are Linux based that are driving FPGAs. You also have stuff like this: http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/sklvarjo/y1731/ If you look at cumulus networks, their Linux based stack is driving data center network virtualization forward by giving you a common software platform on abstracted hardware. None of it is MEF, but saying Linux has stagnated on the general network front isn't accurate. It does lack a decent open source carrier stack though, including the MEF pieces and things like MPLS. Thankfully some vendors have stepped into that space... For a price. I'm not saying that Linux can't play a role. But the ones you're describing (like Cumulus) are proprietary hardware products using embedded Linux to perform some, not all, of the functions. RouterOS, EdgeOS, fooWRT, and similar OSs are however just Linux, using built-in Linux routing capabilities. And even that is in an entirely different direction from MEF; data center stuff is still connectionless MAC or IP switching. So it's not that Linux isn't present in all sorts of places; it's just that Linux isn't bringing CE to the party. The actual forwarding protocols for Carrier Ethernet don't seem to have been implemented for Linux. At least not in the open kernel. So they're not available to the dirt-cheap Linux router market that WISPs like. I do hope we can get some RINA stuff into circulation though; fully baked (and this hasn't all been coded yet), it is a functional superset of both CE, MPLS, IP, and IPsec, among other things, with a much smaller footprint. On December 30, 2014 2:19:40 PM AKST, Fred Goldstein f...@interisle.net wrote: On 12/30/2014 5:05 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: How many WISPs have heard of MEF or CE or even VPLS? So... have you asked for it yet? :-p supp...@mikrotik.com I may have once asked somebody from MT about it, maybe at a show, and they gave the predicted answer, that they're a *router* company. Sort of like DEC, which was a inicomputer company. Of course MEF has a lot of specs now. They aren't all critical, but support for the basic connection types, with QoS, is what matters. But this is foreign to the whole Linux-router market. Linux is a fossil of the early 1990s, when eye pee was still sort of the new thing, and everything else was assumed to be the enemy, or the eeevull telephone company. RouterOS is basically a lot of lipstick on top of Linux. That world still assumes that connectionless is next to godliness, that QoS is impossible, and that Ethernet is orange hose tied together with MAC-table bridges. For those unfamiliar with it, Carrier Ethernet, which is standardized by the Metro Ethernet Forum, uses the Ethernet frame format to provide a wide range of services that aren't bridging. There's point to point Ethernet Private Line, there's PtMP Ethernet Virtual Private Line, and there's MPtMP LAN emulation. It's usually connection-oriented, using the VLAN tag as the connection ID, not the MAC. It offers CIR+EIR support (three color). It is protocol-agnostic to higher layers. It is manageable. And with the new SPB, it has OSPF routing between network elements, not just RSTP. In other words, it's Ethernet Formatted Frame Relay. And that's good; it's an improvement over the original slow telco FR. It's the fastest-growing area in telecom (it's the new standard for cellular backhaul, for instance). But it's not ideologically part of the Linux/IP family, and people from that world (which includes most WISP suppliers) neither understand it nor understand why it's needed. -- Fred R. Goldstein k1iofred at interisle.net Interisle Consulting Group +1 617 795 2701 Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- Fred R. Goldstein k1iofred at interisle.net Interisle Consulting Group +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik - MEF
Like I said, for a price. https://www.vitesse.com/products/software/sdk We need mainline kernel support, as well as the user space layer1 and layer2 diagnostic tools. On December 30, 2014 2:49:35 PM AKST, Fred Goldstein f...@interisle.net wrote: On 12/30/2014 6:41 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote: I agree with about 50% of this. All of the products I know of that run trill or spb or support several MEF levels are Linux based that are driving FPGAs. You also have stuff like this: http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/sklvarjo/y1731/ If you look at cumulus networks, their Linux based stack is driving data center network virtualization forward by giving you a common software platform on abstracted hardware. None of it is MEF, but saying Linux has stagnated on the general network front isn't accurate. It does lack a decent open source carrier stack though, including the MEF pieces and things like MPLS. Thankfully some vendors have stepped into that space... For a price. I'm not saying that Linux can't play a role. But the ones you're describing (like Cumulus) are proprietary hardware products using embedded Linux to perform some, not all, of the functions. RouterOS, EdgeOS, fooWRT, and similar OSs are however just Linux, using built-in Linux routing capabilities. And even that is in an entirely different direction from MEF; data center stuff is still connectionless MAC or IP switching. So it's not that Linux isn't present in all sorts of places; it's just that Linux isn't bringing CE to the party. The actual forwarding protocols for Carrier Ethernet don't seem to have been implemented for Linux. At least not in the open kernel. So they're not available to the dirt-cheap Linux router market that WISPs like. I do hope we can get some RINA stuff into circulation though; fully baked (and this hasn't all been coded yet), it is a functional superset of both CE, MPLS, IP, and IPsec, among other things, with a much smaller footprint. On December 30, 2014 2:19:40 PM AKST, Fred Goldstein f...@interisle.net wrote: On 12/30/2014 5:05 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: How many WISPs have heard of MEF or CE or even VPLS? So... have you asked for it yet? :-p supp...@mikrotik.com I may have once asked somebody from MT about it, maybe at a show, and they gave the predicted answer, that they're a *router* company. Sort of like DEC, which was a inicomputer company. Of course MEF has a lot of specs now. They aren't all critical, but support for the basic connection types, with QoS, is what matters. But this is foreign to the whole Linux-router market. Linux is a fossil of the early 1990s, when eye pee was still sort of the new thing, and everything else was assumed to be the enemy, or the eeevull telephone company. RouterOS is basically a lot of lipstick on top of Linux. That world still assumes that connectionless is next to godliness, that QoS is impossible, and that Ethernet is orange hose tied together with MAC-table bridges. For those unfamiliar with it, Carrier Ethernet, which is standardized by the Metro Ethernet Forum, uses the Ethernet frame format to provide a wide range of services that aren't bridging. There's point to point Ethernet Private Line, there's PtMP Ethernet Virtual Private Line, and there's MPtMP LAN emulation. It's usually connection-oriented, using the VLAN tag as the connection ID, not the MAC. It offers CIR+EIR support (three color). It is protocol-agnostic to higher layers. It is manageable. And with the new SPB, it has OSPF routing between network elements, not just RSTP. In other words, it's Ethernet Formatted Frame Relay. And that's good; it's an improvement over the original slow telco FR. It's the fastest-growing area in telecom (it's the new standard for cellular backhaul, for instance). But it's not ideologically part of the Linux/IP family, and people from that world (which includes most WISP suppliers) neither understand it nor understand why it's needed. -- Fred R. Goldstein k1iofred at interisle.net Interisle Consulting Group +1 617 795 2701 Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- Fred R. Goldstein k1iofred at interisle.net Interisle Consulting Group +1 617 795 2701 -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
