Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Samuel Clements]

I'm personally a huge fan of 'you get what you pay for' but there have been
several new products 'on the low end' of the scale that could be
interesting to explore. While I'm reluctant to turn this into a sales
pitch, I know the 1815i was just announced at Cisco Live EU this week and
it's price point appears to be inline with the general tone of this
conversation. For those that don't need CleanAir, modularity, mgig,
extended operating ranges, dual uplinks, etc and 'just need some wifi' -
for a wave 2 AP with a built in WLC, it seems silly not to mention.
  -Sam

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 8:25 AM, Michael Blaisdell 
wrote:

> This is a good example of what I was thinking.  When it comes to cost the
> Mikrotik boxes are less than the 1 year maintenance cost of the enterprise
> vendor.  So in theory I could replace the entire population of Mikrotiks
> every year and still not incur the initial $250k investment of the
> enterprise solution.
>
>
>
> In my past job, I spent almost 10 years working with literally thousands
> of MikroTik devices. My only concern with your plan to use the HAP AC Lite
> is that the 2.4ghz radio is dual chain, while the 5ghz is single chain. In
> a high density environment, that single chain may cause you issues
> depending on how much attenuation you get from walls on 5ghz.
>
> With the scripting available on the MikroTik devices, automating
> configuration is really easy, all it requires is a web server and a
> database. You have the MikroTik do a web call to the web server with its
> MAC address as a parameter, and you either return a config script that you
> customize based on the database, or return a set of variables from the
> database which the script parses and uses to configure itself. They have
> recently added TR-069 configuration as well.
>
> Also, with as flexible as the MikroTik devices are, you could actually
> broadcast a neutral SSID as well as a room specific SSID, having the
> neutral SSID go back to a core router, and having the MikroTik do a private
> network for the room specific SSID.
>
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
>

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Jeffrey D. Sessler]

I’d counter that the most demanding area for WiFi is in residential areas. It’s 
the exact type of deployment where the advanced enterprise features are often 
desired. For example, technologies such as Cisco’s CleanAir is a huge plus when 
diagnosing, maintaining, and/or assessing the service in a residential area. 
From Xbox’s with defective controller interfaces to leaking microwave ovens, 
the visibility makes a huge difference in the quality of the service.

Even in an AP in every room deployment, one doesn’t escape the RF challenges 
unless each room is a faraday cage. Invest more in the hardware, get a superior 
experience, and staff spend more time on service use vs service problems.

Jeff

From: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
on behalf of Thomas Carter <tcar...@austincollege.edu>
Reply-To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 at 7:47 AM
To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

Sorry for the comment spam. I think my ideal is for someone like Aruba, Cisco, 
etc to have lower cost options that can be mixed in with the better APs.  I 
want those for the high capacity locations like classrooms, etc and the lower 
cost options for low usage areas, better density for dorms, etc.

Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>
[ttp://www.austincollege.edu/images/AusColl_Logo_Email.gif]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Philippe Hanset
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:21 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

Thomas et al.,

For people looking for creative/more affordable systems (not discussing all the 
drawbacks etc ;-), you could also look at Benu Networks.
http://benu.net/solutions/

It seems to be based on White Label APs with Open Source code and centrally 
managed offering.
(I met their CTO at a conference and it seemed pretty interesting, but I have 
never tested)

Has anyone on the list investigated this system?

Philippe

Philippe Hanset, CEO
www.anyroam.net<http://www.anyroam.net>
www.eduroam.us<http://www.eduroam.us>
+1 (865) 236-0770



On Feb 21, 2017, at 10:12 AM, Thomas Carter 
<tcar...@austincollege.edu<mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>> wrote:

Yes, or in some cases, no budget cuts but increased requirements/demands for 
wireless.
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian Lyons
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 8:53 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

A better way to ask the question (perhaps?):

Your budget was cut in half but your requirements of installing/having AC 
Wireless was not changed?

Simple answer is something has to give.   I understand your pain.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Thomas Carter
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:50 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

In the example I used below, there wasn’t an FTE to eliminate. There is no way 
that Meraki, Aerohive, and Ruckus can be cheaper, especially when TCO is 
concerned. That annual license/controller cost for Meraki and Aerohive wouldn’t 
be there.

I guess I’m not making my point well. It seems like most of the responses 
assume there is enough budget for a top tier solution and this is just about 
not spending all of it. Imagine your budget for wireless was cut in half. What 
would you do?
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.austincollege.edu%2F=02%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cd7de358c1cef494f5cbf08d45a68ee6a%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C636232854208154442=fRj0Ny06vnlMGanBNTm8Gz8qwYgaEtNN4zo%2BfxYHits%3D=0>


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 3:52 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Jeffrey D. Sessler]

As Philippe notes, and I’ll expand on, selecting prior generation hardware 
makes little sense when considering life-cycle. Unless it’s installed and code 
is never updated (you are frozen in time), you’ll hit EOL (and end of support) 
far faster than when starting with current generation. Purchase a .11ac wave 2 
today and you’ll have at least six years of support. Purchase .11n, you’ll be 
lucky to get half of that.

Oh, and as a college who is running 802.11ac wave 2 gear (including multigig), 
there is absolutely a huge client performance difference between this hardware, 
our Wave 1 11.ac hardware, and for sure our 802.11n stuff.  Compared to our 
Wave 1 deployments, we’re seeing up to a 10-30x increase in peak client data 
rates and overall bandwidth is also way up. Similar building, similar AP 
placement, only the technology has changed.

Jeff


From: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
on behalf of GT Hill <g...@gthill.com>
Reply-To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 at 8:08 AM
To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

I’m sure I’m probably going against the grain here, but if I had to choose, I’d 
buy used 11n APs from an enterprise manufacturer before I’d go 11ac from a 
“cheaper” manufacturer. Number one, virtually any environment you have will be 
served just fine with 11n.

And to further make my point, the difference between 11ac and 11n for a dorm in 
wall AP is virtually nothing. Max of 2x2:2, no one should be using 80 or 160 
MHz channels (11ac) and MU-MIMO (11ac) basically doesn’t exist in 2x2:2 so 11ac 
(wave 1 or wave 2) features are basically nonexistent or useless in this 
environment.

If I had budget and could afford 11ac, sure, its the way to go. But if I’m on a 
budget, used or discount enterprise 11n hardware will give you great 
performance.

And one more thing; there is absolutely a major difference in performance 
between a true enterprise manufacturer and an entry level system. In my 
previous life I ran the team that’s entire job was to test gear to see what the 
limits of APs really were. The more that cheaper gear is pushed (client count, 
data transfer, etc.) the more they would fail under those loads.

GT

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Thomas Carter 
<tcar...@austincollege.edu<mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>>
Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 at 8:47 AM
To: 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

Sorry for the comment spam. I think my ideal is for someone like Aruba, Cisco, 
etc to have lower cost options that can be mixed in with the better APs.  I 
want those for the high capacity locations like classrooms, etc and the lower 
cost options for low usage areas, better density for dorms, etc.

Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>
[ttp://www.austincollege.edu/images/AusColl_Logo_Email.gif]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Philippe Hanset
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:21 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

Thomas et al.,

For people looking for creative/more affordable systems (not discussing all the 
drawbacks etc ;-), you could also look at Benu Networks.
http://benu.net/solutions/

It seems to be based on White Label APs with Open Source code and centrally 
managed offering.
(I met their CTO at a conference and it seemed pretty interesting, but I have 
never tested)

Has anyone on the list investigated this system?

Philippe

Philippe Hanset, CEO
www.anyroam.net<http://www.anyroam.net>
www.eduroam.us<http://www.eduroam.us>
+1 (865) 236-0770



On Feb 21, 2017, at 10:12 AM, Thomas Carter 
<tcar...@austincollege.edu<mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>> wrote:

Yes, or in some cases, no budget cuts but increased requirements/demands for 
wireless.
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELES

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Philippe Hanset]

I completely agree with the 802.11n approach.
With this approach though, be mindful of the EOL (End Of Life).
That same software that makes that hardware so awesome is also the ultimate 
control mechanism.

Philippe

> On Feb 21, 2017, at 11:08 AM, GT Hill <g...@gthill.com> wrote:
> 
> I’m sure I’m probably going against the grain here, but if I had to choose, 
> I’d buy used 11n APs from an enterprise manufacturer before I’d go 11ac from 
> a “cheaper” manufacturer. Number one, virtually any environment you have will 
> be served just fine with 11n. 
> 
> And to further make my point, the difference between 11ac and 11n for a dorm 
> in wall AP is virtually nothing. Max of 2x2:2, no one should be using 80 or 
> 160 MHz channels (11ac) and MU-MIMO (11ac) basically doesn’t exist in 2x2:2 
> so 11ac (wave 1 or wave 2) features are basically nonexistent or useless in 
> this environment. 
> 
> If I had budget and could afford 11ac, sure, its the way to go. But if I’m on 
> a budget, used or discount enterprise 11n hardware will give you great 
> performance. 
> 
> And one more thing; there is absolutely a major difference in performance 
> between a true enterprise manufacturer and an entry level system. In my 
> previous life I ran the team that’s entire job was to test gear to see what 
> the limits of APs really were. The more that cheaper gear is pushed (client 
> count, data transfer, etc.) the more they would fail under those loads. 
> 
> GT
> 
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> on behalf of Thomas Carter 
> <tcar...@austincollege.edu <mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>>
> Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
> Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 at 8:47 AM
> To: <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example
> 
> Sorry for the comment spam. I think my ideal is for someone like Aruba, 
> Cisco, etc to have lower cost options that can be mixed in with the better 
> APs.  I want those for the high capacity locations like classrooms, etc and 
> the lower cost options for low usage areas, better density for dorms, etc.
>  
> Thomas Carter
> Network & Operations Manager / IT
> Austin College
> 900 North Grand Avenue 
> Sherman, TX 75090
> Phone: 903-813-2564
> www.austincollege.edu <http://www.austincollege.edu/>
> 
>  
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>] On Behalf Of Philippe Hanset
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:21 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example
>  
> Thomas et al.,
>  
> For people looking for creative/more affordable systems (not discussing all 
> the drawbacks etc ;-), you could also look at Benu Networks.
> http://benu.net/solutions/ <http://benu.net/solutions/>
>  
> It seems to be based on White Label APs with Open Source code and centrally 
> managed offering.
> (I met their CTO at a conference and it seemed pretty interesting, but I have 
> never tested)
>  
> Has anyone on the list investigated this system?
>  
> Philippe
>  
> Philippe Hanset, CEO
> www.anyroam.net <http://www.anyroam.net/>
> www.eduroam.us <http://www.eduroam.us/>
> +1 (865) 236-0770
>  
>  
>  
> On Feb 21, 2017, at 10:12 AM, Thomas Carter <tcar...@austincollege.edu 
> <mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>> wrote:
>  
> Yes, or in some cases, no budget cuts but increased requirements/demands for 
> wireless.
> Thomas Carter
> Network & Operations Manager / IT
> Austin College
> 900 North Grand Avenue 
> Sherman, TX 75090
> Phone: 903-813-2564
> www.austincollege.edu <http://www.austincollege.edu/>
> 
>  
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>] On Behalf Of Ian Lyons
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 8:53 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu>
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example
>  
> A better way to ask the question (perhaps?):
>  
> Your budget was cut in half but your requirements of installing/having AC 
> Wireless was not cha

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[GT Hill]

I’m sure I’m probably going against the grain here, but if I had to choose, I’d 
buy used 11n APs from an enterprise manufacturer before I’d go 11ac from a 
“cheaper” manufacturer. Number one, virtually any environment you have will be 
served just fine with 11n. 

And to further make my point, the difference between 11ac and 11n for a dorm in 
wall AP is virtually nothing. Max of 2x2:2, no one should be using 80 or 160 
MHz channels (11ac) and MU-MIMO (11ac) basically doesn’t exist in 2x2:2 so 11ac 
(wave 1 or wave 2) features are basically nonexistent or useless in this 
environment. 

If I had budget and could afford 11ac, sure, its the way to go. But if I’m on a 
budget, used or discount enterprise 11n hardware will give you great 
performance. 

And one more thing; there is absolutely a major difference in performance 
between a true enterprise manufacturer and an entry level system. In my 
previous life I ran the team that’s entire job was to test gear to see what the 
limits of APs really were. The more that cheaper gear is pushed (client count, 
data transfer, etc.) the more they would fail under those loads. 

GT

From:  The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of Thomas Carter 
<tcar...@austincollege.edu>
Reply-To:  The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Date:  Tuesday, February 21, 2017 at 8:47 AM
To:  <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject:  Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

Sorry for the comment spam. I think my ideal is for someone like Aruba, Cisco, 
etc to have lower cost options that can be mixed in with the better APs.  I 
want those for the high capacity locations like classrooms, etc and the lower 
cost options for low usage areas, better density for dorms, etc.

 

Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT

Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue 
Sherman, TX 75090

Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Philippe Hanset
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:21 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

 

Thomas et al.,

 

For people looking for creative/more affordable systems (not discussing all the 
drawbacks etc ;-), you could also look at Benu Networks.

http://benu.net/solutions/

 

It seems to be based on White Label APs with Open Source code and centrally 
managed offering.

(I met their CTO at a conference and it seemed pretty interesting, but I have 
never tested)

 

Has anyone on the list investigated this system?

 

Philippe

 

Philippe Hanset, CEO
www.anyroam.net
www.eduroam.us
+1 (865) 236-0770

 

 

 

On Feb 21, 2017, at 10:12 AM, Thomas Carter <tcar...@austincollege.edu> wrote:

 

Yes, or in some cases, no budget cuts but increased requirements/demands for 
wireless.

Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT

Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue 
Sherman, TX 75090

Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu



 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian Lyons
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 8:53 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

 

A better way to ask the question (perhaps?):

 

Your budget was cut in half but your requirements of installing/having AC 
Wireless was not changed?

 

Simple answer is something has to give.   I understand your pain.

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Thomas Carter
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:50 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

 

In the example I used below, there wasn’t an FTE to eliminate. There is no way 
that Meraki, Aerohive, and Ruckus can be cheaper, especially when TCO is 
concerned. That annual license/controller cost for Meraki and Aerohive wouldn’t 
be there.

 

I guess I’m not making my point well. It seems like most of the responses 
assume there is enough budget for a top tier solution and this is just about 
not spending all of it. Imagine your budget for wireless was cut in half. What 
would you do? 

Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT

Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue 
Sherman, TX 75090

Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu



 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 3:52 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

 

In the k-12 space, Cisco Meraki, Aerohive, and Ruckus continue to be the big 
players even in small 

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Thomas Carter]

Sorry for the comment spam. I think my ideal is for someone like Aruba, Cisco, 
etc to have lower cost options that can be mixed in with the better APs.  I 
want those for the high capacity locations like classrooms, etc and the lower 
cost options for low usage areas, better density for dorms, etc.

Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>
[http://www.austincollege.edu/images/AusColl_Logo_Email.gif]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Philippe Hanset
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:21 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

Thomas et al.,

For people looking for creative/more affordable systems (not discussing all the 
drawbacks etc ;-), you could also look at Benu Networks.
http://benu.net/solutions/

It seems to be based on White Label APs with Open Source code and centrally 
managed offering.
(I met their CTO at a conference and it seemed pretty interesting, but I have 
never tested)

Has anyone on the list investigated this system?

Philippe

Philippe Hanset, CEO
www.anyroam.net<http://www.anyroam.net>
www.eduroam.us<http://www.eduroam.us>
+1 (865) 236-0770



On Feb 21, 2017, at 10:12 AM, Thomas Carter 
<tcar...@austincollege.edu<mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>> wrote:

Yes, or in some cases, no budget cuts but increased requirements/demands for 
wireless.
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian Lyons
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 8:53 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

A better way to ask the question (perhaps?):

Your budget was cut in half but your requirements of installing/having AC 
Wireless was not changed?

Simple answer is something has to give.   I understand your pain.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Thomas Carter
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:50 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

In the example I used below, there wasn’t an FTE to eliminate. There is no way 
that Meraki, Aerohive, and Ruckus can be cheaper, especially when TCO is 
concerned. That annual license/controller cost for Meraki and Aerohive wouldn’t 
be there.

I guess I’m not making my point well. It seems like most of the responses 
assume there is enough budget for a top tier solution and this is just about 
not spending all of it. Imagine your budget for wireless was cut in half. What 
would you do?
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.austincollege.edu%2F=02%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cd7de358c1cef494f5cbf08d45a68ee6a%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C636232854208154442=fRj0Ny06vnlMGanBNTm8Gz8qwYgaEtNN4zo%2BfxYHits%3D=0>


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 3:52 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

In the k-12 space, Cisco Meraki, Aerohive, and Ruckus continue to be the big 
players even in small districts, with others, including Ubiquiti, not making 
much of a dent. Those solutions also tend to come in at or lower than Ubiquiti.

One of the drivers for solutions such as Meraki is that from management’s 
perspective, the cloud-based platform and extensive support channel means you 
don’t need all those expensive FTE’s to run it, while at the same time gaining 
many of the enterprise features you care most about. The reduction of even a 
single FTE costing say $100K per year including benefits purchases a whole lot 
of additional wireless hardware.

Jeff

From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Thomas Carter 
<tcar...@austincollege.edu<mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>>
Reply-To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-L

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Hunter Fuller]

I imagine they are happy because they continue to pay for the connection
from the other ISP.

I also imagine they are happy because I stayed in those same dorms in
2010-2012, had a connection from Knology, and ran my own AP. Worked fine
for me. I'm sure there were a bunch of people in Network Services cursing
me... the same ones I work with now. (Maybe they're still cursing me, for
different reasons. Who knows.)

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 06:39 Osborne, Bruce W (Network Operations) <
bosbo...@liberty.edu> wrote:

> 1are they really happy or do they know they have nobody to blame but
> themselves for poor choices?
>
>
>
> Just another thought.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Bruce Osborne*
>
> *Senior Network Engineer*
>
> *Network Operations - Wireless*
>
>
>
>  *(434) 592-4229*
>
>
>
> *LIBERTY UNIVERSITY*
>
> *Training Champions for Christ since 1971*
>
>
>
> *From:* Hunter Fuller [mailto:hf0...@uah.edu]
> *Sent:* Monday, February 20, 2017 1:53 PM
> *Subject:* Re: In room WIFI - second example
>
>
>
> Bruce,
>
>
>
> I have had this mindset for a long time, but I've been questioning it
> recently.
>
> Due to a political situation I won't bother going into, our dorm residents
> are able to purchase internet connections from wideopenwest or Comcast.
> They set up their own APs and some of our dorms are rogue nightmares. We've
> made a heavy push to 5GHz to combat this.
>
>
>
> But it made me wonder... what is up with this? These students set up the
> cheapest APs they can find at Best Buy, blasting at 10 watts of power
> on 2GHz, right next to 3 other students doing the same thing. All students
> are happy with their comcast connection and wireless performance. Meanwhile
> UAH invests thousands upon thousands into enterprise wireless and it simply
> cannot operate under those conditions...?
>
> It just makes me wonder, is all...
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 07:06 Osborne, Bruce W (Network Operations) <
> bosbo...@liberty.edu> wrote:
>
> My first thought is this.
>
> Are these boxes centrally managed? It appears you are using WPA2-Personal.
> If so, it would be a pain to need to revisit each box every year to change
> the PSK.
> How is channel coordination happening to minimize interference?
> How will you handle misbehaving devices DOSing the network while
> minimizing the impact to roommates?
> How are you steering clients to use 5GHz for better performance?
>
> There are reasons there are Enterprise wireless systems with enterprise
> encryption options.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Blaisdell [mailto:mblaisd...@francis.edu]
> Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 8:52 PM
> Subject: In room WIFI - second example
>
> I had posted to the group a few months ago about WAPs in each dorm room.
> I received a number of comments that were very insightful.  Most agreed
> that channel plan in the 2.4 would be next to impossible and the best plan
> would be to turn off maybe every other radio and turn back the power. As
> for 5.8 I believe we agreed that channel width should be a minimum because
> we are not going for speed, we are going to coverage.
>
> I am back at the table with another twist.  I have been testing Microtik
> HAP AC lite boxes with 4 10/100 ports and both 2.4 and 5.8 radios.  I also
> have the box setup as a router for their room.  I think we can call it a
> DAN.  Dorm Area Network.  The students in the room share a common DHCP
> server and have NAT access to the campus LAN.  This allows the students to
> add devices in their rooms as they need to without affecting the network.
> The HAP also has two way firewall config so I can block all the ports and
> services I would normally but I can do it at the end point.  I guess the
> dorms are running like an individual household and I am the ISP.
>
> Each room has a unique SSID and authentication.
>
> This is just a test in a few locations at this point but it has worked
> great.
>
> I am looking for feedback like last time.   Please feel free to cut hard
> and deep if necessary.  Security issues could be my biggest issues.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Michael Blaisdell
> Director of Network Services
> IT Services
> Learning Commons/Library
> Saint Francis University
> 117 Evergreen Drive
> Loretto, PA  15940
> 814-472-3242
> http://www.francis.edu
> The best way to predict the future is to invent it. Alan Kay
>
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
>
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
>
> --
>
>
> --
> Hunter Fuller
> Network Engineer
> VBRH Annex B-1
> +1 256 824 5331
>
> Office of Information Technology
> The University of Alabama in Huntsville
> Systems and Infrastructure
>
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
> 

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Philippe Hanset]

Thomas et al.,

For people looking for creative/more affordable systems (not discussing all the 
drawbacks etc ;-), you could also look at Benu Networks.
http://benu.net/solutions/ <http://benu.net/solutions/>

It seems to be based on White Label APs with Open Source code and centrally 
managed offering.
(I met their CTO at a conference and it seemed pretty interesting, but I have 
never tested)

Has anyone on the list investigated this system?

Philippe

Philippe Hanset, CEO
www.anyroam.net <http://www.anyroam.net/>
www.eduroam.us <http://www.eduroam.us/>
+1 (865) 236-0770



> On Feb 21, 2017, at 10:12 AM, Thomas Carter <tcar...@austincollege.edu> wrote:
> 
> Yes, or in some cases, no budget cuts but increased requirements/demands for 
> wireless.
> Thomas Carter
> Network & Operations Manager / IT
> Austin College
> 900 North Grand Avenue 
> Sherman, TX 75090
> Phone: 903-813-2564
> www.austincollege.edu <http://www.austincollege.edu/>
> 
>  
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>] On Behalf Of Ian Lyons
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 8:53 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu>
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example
>  
> A better way to ask the question (perhaps?):
>  
> Your budget was cut in half but your requirements of installing/having AC 
> Wireless was not changed?
>  
> Simple answer is something has to give.   I understand your pain.
>  
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>] On Behalf Of Thomas Carter
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:50 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example
>  
> In the example I used below, there wasn’t an FTE to eliminate. There is no 
> way that Meraki, Aerohive, and Ruckus can be cheaper, especially when TCO is 
> concerned. That annual license/controller cost for Meraki and Aerohive 
> wouldn’t be there.
>  
> I guess I’m not making my point well. It seems like most of the responses 
> assume there is enough budget for a top tier solution and this is just about 
> not spending all of it. Imagine your budget for wireless was cut in half. 
> What would you do? 
> Thomas Carter
> Network & Operations Manager / IT
> Austin College
> 900 North Grand Avenue 
> Sherman, TX 75090
> Phone: 903-813-2564
> www.austincollege.edu 
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.austincollege.edu%2F=02%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cd7de358c1cef494f5cbf08d45a68ee6a%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C636232854208154442=fRj0Ny06vnlMGanBNTm8Gz8qwYgaEtNN4zo%2BfxYHits%3D=0>
> 
>  
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 3:52 PM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example
>  
> In the k-12 space, Cisco Meraki, Aerohive, and Ruckus continue to be the big 
> players even in small districts, with others, including Ubiquiti, not making 
> much of a dent. Those solutions also tend to come in at or lower than 
> Ubiquiti.
>  
> One of the drivers for solutions such as Meraki is that from management’s 
> perspective, the cloud-based platform and extensive support channel means you 
> don’t need all those expensive FTE’s to run it, while at the same time 
> gaining many of the enterprise features you care most about. The reduction of 
> even a single FTE costing say $100K per year including benefits purchases a 
> whole lot of additional wireless hardware.
>  
> Jeff 
>  
> From: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu 
> <mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
> <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> on behalf of Thomas Carter 
> <tcar...@austincollege.edu <mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>>
> Reply-To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu 
> <mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
> <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
> Date: Monday, February 20, 2017 at 12:08 PM
> To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu 
> <mailto:wireless-lan@listser

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Thomas Carter]

Yes, or in some cases, no budget cuts but increased requirements/demands for 
wireless.
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>
[http://www.austincollege.edu/images/AusColl_Logo_Email.gif]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian Lyons
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 8:53 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

A better way to ask the question (perhaps?):

Your budget was cut in half but your requirements of installing/having AC 
Wireless was not changed?

Simple answer is something has to give.   I understand your pain.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Thomas Carter
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:50 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

In the example I used below, there wasn’t an FTE to eliminate. There is no way 
that Meraki, Aerohive, and Ruckus can be cheaper, especially when TCO is 
concerned. That annual license/controller cost for Meraki and Aerohive wouldn’t 
be there.

I guess I’m not making my point well. It seems like most of the responses 
assume there is enough budget for a top tier solution and this is just about 
not spending all of it. Imagine your budget for wireless was cut in half. What 
would you do?
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.austincollege.edu%2F=02%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cd7de358c1cef494f5cbf08d45a68ee6a%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C636232854208154442=fRj0Ny06vnlMGanBNTm8Gz8qwYgaEtNN4zo%2BfxYHits%3D=0>
[http://www.austincollege.edu/images/AusColl_Logo_Email.gif]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 3:52 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

In the k-12 space, Cisco Meraki, Aerohive, and Ruckus continue to be the big 
players even in small districts, with others, including Ubiquiti, not making 
much of a dent. Those solutions also tend to come in at or lower than Ubiquiti.

One of the drivers for solutions such as Meraki is that from management’s 
perspective, the cloud-based platform and extensive support channel means you 
don’t need all those expensive FTE’s to run it, while at the same time gaining 
many of the enterprise features you care most about. The reduction of even a 
single FTE costing say $100K per year including benefits purchases a whole lot 
of additional wireless hardware.

Jeff

From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Thomas Carter 
<tcar...@austincollege.edu<mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>>
Reply-To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Date: Monday, February 20, 2017 at 12:08 PM
To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

I’m not questioning the cost, just the available options. I feel like I 
sometimes want to tow a 15’ travel trailer and my options from the established 
vendors are a Peterbuilt, Mack, and Freightligner at 4x the cost of an F-150 
that is adequate to the task. Because of that, there are a lot of small 
schools, businesses, etc, that are now turning to Ubiquiti, Open Mesh, 
Mikrotik, etc for their good-enough.

I do believe you get what you pay for, but there are limits on what you can 
afford. Here’s the story of a friend; a campus of APs between 5-10 years old. 
Over the next 5 years he could only get the budget to replace only ½ of them 
with a Cisco/Aruba/Ruckus/etc. Over the next 3 years, he could replace all of 
them with Ubiquiti. What choice do you make?
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.austincollege.edu%2F=02%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cd7de358c1cef494f5c

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Thomas Carter]

In the example I used below, there wasn’t an FTE to eliminate. There is no way 
that Meraki, Aerohive, and Ruckus can be cheaper, especially when TCO is 
concerned. That annual license/controller cost for Meraki and Aerohive wouldn’t 
be there.

I guess I’m not making my point well. It seems like most of the responses 
assume there is enough budget for a top tier solution and this is just about 
not spending all of it. Imagine your budget for wireless was cut in half. What 
would you do?
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>
[http://www.austincollege.edu/images/AusColl_Logo_Email.gif]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 3:52 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

In the k-12 space, Cisco Meraki, Aerohive, and Ruckus continue to be the big 
players even in small districts, with others, including Ubiquiti, not making 
much of a dent. Those solutions also tend to come in at or lower than Ubiquiti.

One of the drivers for solutions such as Meraki is that from management’s 
perspective, the cloud-based platform and extensive support channel means you 
don’t need all those expensive FTE’s to run it, while at the same time gaining 
many of the enterprise features you care most about. The reduction of even a 
single FTE costing say $100K per year including benefits purchases a whole lot 
of additional wireless hardware.

Jeff

From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Thomas Carter 
<tcar...@austincollege.edu<mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>>
Reply-To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Date: Monday, February 20, 2017 at 12:08 PM
To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

I’m not questioning the cost, just the available options. I feel like I 
sometimes want to tow a 15’ travel trailer and my options from the established 
vendors are a Peterbuilt, Mack, and Freightligner at 4x the cost of an F-150 
that is adequate to the task. Because of that, there are a lot of small 
schools, businesses, etc, that are now turning to Ubiquiti, Open Mesh, 
Mikrotik, etc for their good-enough.

I do believe you get what you pay for, but there are limits on what you can 
afford. Here’s the story of a friend; a campus of APs between 5-10 years old. 
Over the next 5 years he could only get the budget to replace only ½ of them 
with a Cisco/Aruba/Ruckus/etc. Over the next 3 years, he could replace all of 
them with Ubiquiti. What choice do you make?
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>
[ttp://www.austincollege.edu/images/AusColl_Logo_Email.gif]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 1:44 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

On the cost of devices.

Some enterprise vendor solutions may be nothing more than the same 
off-the-shelf design that the consumer models use, including using the same 
radio code.  When there are radio code issues, the vendor goes back to 
Broadcom, Marvell, or Qualcomm for a fix. Other enterprise vendors go as far as 
to license the radio source code, where you get unique features not otherwise 
available with off-the-shelf designs.

That said, the enterprise WAP vendor does write the code that does all the rest 
of the magic in the WAP e.g. interface, controller connectivity, and so on. In 
general, the cost you are paying for the enterprise WAPs involves a lot more 
than just the hardware cost with most of it in the value/development cost of 
the IP (software underpinning the system).

Jeff

From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Thomas Carter 
<tcar...@austincollege.edu<mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>>
Reply-To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu&

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Ian Lyons]

A better way to ask the question (perhaps?):

Your budget was cut in half but your requirements of installing/having AC 
Wireless was not changed?

Simple answer is something has to give.   I understand your pain.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Thomas Carter
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:50 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

In the example I used below, there wasn’t an FTE to eliminate. There is no way 
that Meraki, Aerohive, and Ruckus can be cheaper, especially when TCO is 
concerned. That annual license/controller cost for Meraki and Aerohive wouldn’t 
be there.

I guess I’m not making my point well. It seems like most of the responses 
assume there is enough budget for a top tier solution and this is just about 
not spending all of it. Imagine your budget for wireless was cut in half. What 
would you do?
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.austincollege.edu%2F=02%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cd7de358c1cef494f5cbf08d45a68ee6a%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C636232854208154442=fRj0Ny06vnlMGanBNTm8Gz8qwYgaEtNN4zo%2BfxYHits%3D=0>
[http://www.austincollege.edu/images/AusColl_Logo_Email.gif]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 3:52 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

In the k-12 space, Cisco Meraki, Aerohive, and Ruckus continue to be the big 
players even in small districts, with others, including Ubiquiti, not making 
much of a dent. Those solutions also tend to come in at or lower than Ubiquiti.

One of the drivers for solutions such as Meraki is that from management’s 
perspective, the cloud-based platform and extensive support channel means you 
don’t need all those expensive FTE’s to run it, while at the same time gaining 
many of the enterprise features you care most about. The reduction of even a 
single FTE costing say $100K per year including benefits purchases a whole lot 
of additional wireless hardware.

Jeff

From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Thomas Carter 
<tcar...@austincollege.edu<mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>>
Reply-To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Date: Monday, February 20, 2017 at 12:08 PM
To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

I’m not questioning the cost, just the available options. I feel like I 
sometimes want to tow a 15’ travel trailer and my options from the established 
vendors are a Peterbuilt, Mack, and Freightligner at 4x the cost of an F-150 
that is adequate to the task. Because of that, there are a lot of small 
schools, businesses, etc, that are now turning to Ubiquiti, Open Mesh, 
Mikrotik, etc for their good-enough.

I do believe you get what you pay for, but there are limits on what you can 
afford. Here’s the story of a friend; a campus of APs between 5-10 years old. 
Over the next 5 years he could only get the budget to replace only ½ of them 
with a Cisco/Aruba/Ruckus/etc. Over the next 3 years, he could replace all of 
them with Ubiquiti. What choice do you make?
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.austincollege.edu%2F=02%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cd7de358c1cef494f5cbf08d45a68ee6a%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C636232854208154442=fRj0Ny06vnlMGanBNTm8Gz8qwYgaEtNN4zo%2BfxYHits%3D=0>
[ttp://www.austincollege.edu/images/AusColl_Logo_Email.gif]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 1:44 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

On the cost of devices.

Some enterprise vendor solutions may be nothing more than the same 
off-the-shelf design that the consumer models use, 

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Tristan Gulyas]

Hi,

We're using the 702W and have over 1500 deployed - we don't need 802.11ac in 
each room, given the speeds on 40Mhz 5GHz n channels are still sufficient for 
their needs plus they get three gigabit ports (the 4th is used for an IP phone) 
if they require faster speeds.

We have not received one single complaint about the AP-in-every-room service we 
have deployed in our new res halls relating to coverage or performance (the 
lack of PSK support, plus device security for Sonos and similar devices are the 
remaining issues).

The ceiling mount APs in the corridor simply don't work with the thickness of 
the walls and placing a ceiling mount AP in a room creates two issues: 1. 
getting 5GHz in the adjacent rooms is dubious at best and 2. inequality between 
the student who gets the AP in the room and the two students either side who do 
not, given they're all paying the same amount of rent.

RF management in such an environment is critical, as is clean roaming for the 
same experience everywhere.  Students routinely study in groups, in each 
others' dorm rooms or congregation spaces, so offering the same SSID across the 
board creates a great experience for the users.

Replacing APs every three years is a *huge* labor cost, not to mention the 
challenges in getting access to a dorm room for a fitout once students have 
moved in. 

I will make one point re: the manageability of such devices: the 702W's 
switchports still only have consumer-grade levels of visibility - no 
MAC-address-per-switchport visibility, no voice VLAN and no port statistics 
(eg, speed, duplex, errors, bytes transferred etc).

Cheers,
Tristan
-- 
TRISTAN GULYAS
Senior Network Engineer

Infrastructure Services, eSolutions
Monash University
738 Blackburn Road
Clayton 3168
Australia

T: +61 3 9902 9092  
E: tristan.gul...@monash.edu
monash.edu <http://monash.edu/>
> On 21 Feb 2017, at 4:01 am, Thomas Carter <tcar...@austincollege.edu> wrote:
> 
> It does bring up a problem that I’ve been complaining about for a long time – 
> the top tier vendors don’t really offer any low cost single-room solutions, 
> especially when it comes to ac. For example, what is there between this 
> Mikrotik device at $50 and an Aruba AP-205H for $400? I see they have a 203H 
> coming, but I don’t know the pricing on that. It seems the Cisco 1810 is a 
> little better at $300, but for less than double that cost I can support 3 
> rooms with a traditional ceiling mount. And that doesn’t include the extra 
> controller licensing and capacity required.
>  
> From the point of view of someone with a small, challenging budget, I could 
> get the Aruba or Cisco and then have to keep them in service for 10+ years, 
> or go for the cheaper models and replace them every 3. I realize there are 
> other issue, but cost is a big driver.
> Thomas Carter
> Network & Operations Manager / IT
> Austin College
> 900 North Grand Avenue 
> Sherman, TX 75090
> Phone: 903-813-2564
> www.austincollege.edu <http://www.austincollege.edu/>
> 
>  
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>] On Behalf Of Mark Elley
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 10:24 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
> <mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example
>  
> IMHO what you potentially save upfront will probably cost you dearly in 
> maintenance, support issues and customer (dis)satisfaction.
> 
>  
> Wireless Service Manager
> IT Services, University of Bristol 
>  
> On 20 February 2017 at 14:55, Michael Blaisdell <mblaisd...@francis.edu 
> <mailto:mblaisd...@francis.edu>> wrote:
> Hmm. How many rooms, buildings, and end devices, Michael?
> 
> 
> 700 rooms over 10 buildings and about 3000 end devices.
> 
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
> Group discussion list can be found athttp://www.educause.edu/discuss 
> <http://www.educause.edu/discuss>.
>  
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found 
> athttp://www.educause.edu/discuss <http://www.educause.edu/discuss>.
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
> http://www.educause.edu/discuss <http://www.educause.edu/discuss>.


**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Jeffrey D. Sessler]

In the k-12 space, Cisco Meraki, Aerohive, and Ruckus continue to be the big 
players even in small districts, with others, including Ubiquiti, not making 
much of a dent. Those solutions also tend to come in at or lower than Ubiquiti.

One of the drivers for solutions such as Meraki is that from management’s 
perspective, the cloud-based platform and extensive support channel means you 
don’t need all those expensive FTE’s to run it, while at the same time gaining 
many of the enterprise features you care most about. The reduction of even a 
single FTE costing say $100K per year including benefits purchases a whole lot 
of additional wireless hardware.

Jeff

From: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
on behalf of Thomas Carter <tcar...@austincollege.edu>
Reply-To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Date: Monday, February 20, 2017 at 12:08 PM
To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

I’m not questioning the cost, just the available options. I feel like I 
sometimes want to tow a 15’ travel trailer and my options from the established 
vendors are a Peterbuilt, Mack, and Freightligner at 4x the cost of an F-150 
that is adequate to the task. Because of that, there are a lot of small 
schools, businesses, etc, that are now turning to Ubiquiti, Open Mesh, 
Mikrotik, etc for their good-enough.

I do believe you get what you pay for, but there are limits on what you can 
afford. Here’s the story of a friend; a campus of APs between 5-10 years old. 
Over the next 5 years he could only get the budget to replace only ½ of them 
with a Cisco/Aruba/Ruckus/etc. Over the next 3 years, he could replace all of 
them with Ubiquiti. What choice do you make?
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>
[ttp://www.austincollege.edu/images/AusColl_Logo_Email.gif]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 1:44 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

On the cost of devices.

Some enterprise vendor solutions may be nothing more than the same 
off-the-shelf design that the consumer models use, including using the same 
radio code.  When there are radio code issues, the vendor goes back to 
Broadcom, Marvell, or Qualcomm for a fix. Other enterprise vendors go as far as 
to license the radio source code, where you get unique features not otherwise 
available with off-the-shelf designs.

That said, the enterprise WAP vendor does write the code that does all the rest 
of the magic in the WAP e.g. interface, controller connectivity, and so on. In 
general, the cost you are paying for the enterprise WAPs involves a lot more 
than just the hardware cost with most of it in the value/development cost of 
the IP (software underpinning the system).

Jeff

From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Thomas Carter 
<tcar...@austincollege.edu<mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>>
Reply-To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Date: Monday, February 20, 2017 at 9:01 AM
To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

It does bring up a problem that I’ve been complaining about for a long time – 
the top tier vendors don’t really offer any low cost single-room solutions, 
especially when it comes to ac. For example, what is there between this 
Mikrotik device at $50 and an Aruba AP-205H for $400? I see they have a 203H 
coming, but I don’t know the pricing on that. It seems the Cisco 1810 is a 
little better at $300, but for less than double that cost I can support 3 rooms 
with a traditional ceiling mount. And that doesn’t include the extra controller 
licensing and capacity required.

From the point of view of someone with a small, challenging budget, I could get 
the Aruba or Cisco and then have to keep them in service for 10+ years, or go 
for the cheaper models and replace them every 3. I realize there are other 
issue, but cost is a big driver.
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Thomas Carter]

I’m not questioning the cost, just the available options. I feel like I 
sometimes want to tow a 15’ travel trailer and my options from the established 
vendors are a Peterbuilt, Mack, and Freightligner at 4x the cost of an F-150 
that is adequate to the task. Because of that, there are a lot of small 
schools, businesses, etc, that are now turning to Ubiquiti, Open Mesh, 
Mikrotik, etc for their good-enough.

I do believe you get what you pay for, but there are limits on what you can 
afford. Here’s the story of a friend; a campus of APs between 5-10 years old. 
Over the next 5 years he could only get the budget to replace only ½ of them 
with a Cisco/Aruba/Ruckus/etc. Over the next 3 years, he could replace all of 
them with Ubiquiti. What choice do you make?
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>
[http://www.austincollege.edu/images/AusColl_Logo_Email.gif]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 1:44 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

On the cost of devices.

Some enterprise vendor solutions may be nothing more than the same 
off-the-shelf design that the consumer models use, including using the same 
radio code.  When there are radio code issues, the vendor goes back to 
Broadcom, Marvell, or Qualcomm for a fix. Other enterprise vendors go as far as 
to license the radio source code, where you get unique features not otherwise 
available with off-the-shelf designs.

That said, the enterprise WAP vendor does write the code that does all the rest 
of the magic in the WAP e.g. interface, controller connectivity, and so on. In 
general, the cost you are paying for the enterprise WAPs involves a lot more 
than just the hardware cost with most of it in the value/development cost of 
the IP (software underpinning the system).

Jeff

From: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Thomas Carter 
<tcar...@austincollege.edu<mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>>
Reply-To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Date: Monday, February 20, 2017 at 9:01 AM
To: 
"wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

It does bring up a problem that I’ve been complaining about for a long time – 
the top tier vendors don’t really offer any low cost single-room solutions, 
especially when it comes to ac. For example, what is there between this 
Mikrotik device at $50 and an Aruba AP-205H for $400? I see they have a 203H 
coming, but I don’t know the pricing on that. It seems the Cisco 1810 is a 
little better at $300, but for less than double that cost I can support 3 rooms 
with a traditional ceiling mount. And that doesn’t include the extra controller 
licensing and capacity required.

From the point of view of someone with a small, challenging budget, I could get 
the Aruba or Cisco and then have to keep them in service for 10+ years, or go 
for the cheaper models and replace them every 3. I realize there are other 
issue, but cost is a big driver.
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>
[ttp://www.austincollege.edu/images/AusColl_Logo_Email.gif]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Elley
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 10:24 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

IMHO what you potentially save upfront will probably cost you dearly in 
maintenance, support issues and customer (dis)satisfaction.


Wireless Service Manager
IT Services, University of Bristol

On 20 February 2017 at 14:55, Michael Blaisdell 
<mblaisd...@francis.edu<mailto:mblaisd...@francis.edu>> wrote:
Hmm. How many rooms, buildings, and end devices, Michael?


700 rooms over 10 buildings and about 3000 end devices.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Con

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Jeffrey D. Sessler]

On the cost of devices.

Some enterprise vendor solutions may be nothing more than the same 
off-the-shelf design that the consumer models use, including using the same 
radio code.  When there are radio code issues, the vendor goes back to 
Broadcom, Marvell, or Qualcomm for a fix. Other enterprise vendors go as far as 
to license the radio source code, where you get unique features not otherwise 
available with off-the-shelf designs.

That said, the enterprise WAP vendor does write the code that does all the rest 
of the magic in the WAP e.g. interface, controller connectivity, and so on. In 
general, the cost you are paying for the enterprise WAPs involves a lot more 
than just the hardware cost with most of it in the value/development cost of 
the IP (software underpinning the system).

Jeff

From: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
on behalf of Thomas Carter <tcar...@austincollege.edu>
Reply-To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Date: Monday, February 20, 2017 at 9:01 AM
To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

It does bring up a problem that I’ve been complaining about for a long time – 
the top tier vendors don’t really offer any low cost single-room solutions, 
especially when it comes to ac. For example, what is there between this 
Mikrotik device at $50 and an Aruba AP-205H for $400? I see they have a 203H 
coming, but I don’t know the pricing on that. It seems the Cisco 1810 is a 
little better at $300, but for less than double that cost I can support 3 rooms 
with a traditional ceiling mount. And that doesn’t include the extra controller 
licensing and capacity required.

From the point of view of someone with a small, challenging budget, I could get 
the Aruba or Cisco and then have to keep them in service for 10+ years, or go 
for the cheaper models and replace them every 3. I realize there are other 
issue, but cost is a big driver.
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>
[ttp://www.austincollege.edu/images/AusColl_Logo_Email.gif]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Elley
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 10:24 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

IMHO what you potentially save upfront will probably cost you dearly in 
maintenance, support issues and customer (dis)satisfaction.


Wireless Service Manager
IT Services, University of Bristol

On 20 February 2017 at 14:55, Michael Blaisdell 
<mblaisd...@francis.edu<mailto:mblaisd...@francis.edu>> wrote:
Hmm. How many rooms, buildings, and end devices, Michael?


700 rooms over 10 buildings and about 3000 end devices.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Brian L. Cox]

From our experience the 205H has worked well and provides good coverage in 
surrounding rooms…providing the walls are not solid concrete

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Norman Mourtada
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 1:01 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

We are actively looking at both the 205H and 303H from Aruba. The list price 
for the 205H is $695 and the new 303H is $495 (with wave 2 and SU/MU-MIMO) but 
will require a minimum OS of 6.5. I am leaning towards the 303H as it will be 
cost effective with our standard discount. Planning to deploy in every other 
dorm room with 5GHz only.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Thomas Carter
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 12:02 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

It does bring up a problem that I’ve been complaining about for a long time – 
the top tier vendors don’t really offer any low cost single-room solutions, 
especially when it comes to ac. For example, what is there between this 
Mikrotik device at $50 and an Aruba AP-205H for $400? I see they have a 203H 
coming, but I don’t know the pricing on that. It seems the Cisco 1810 is a 
little better at $300, but for less than double that cost I can support 3 rooms 
with a traditional ceiling mount. And that doesn’t include the extra controller 
licensing and capacity required.

From the point of view of someone with a small, challenging budget, I could get 
the Aruba or Cisco and then have to keep them in service for 10+ years, or go 
for the cheaper models and replace them every 3. I realize there are other 
issue, but cost is a big driver.
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.austincollege.edu_=DwMGaQ=9ZQuuHhOefNvAzlN-3viIA=6Bmnyfh8jopHiin2ssgQHg=dQViG1l3_OJ092un-obwUbsJhXU7V6WdADajpveSqf4=H41IlOeFQRRIiHrjVG_JHNdFYTtXoblfrHCBz4LE70c=>
[http://www.austincollege.edu/images/AusColl_Logo_Email.gif]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Elley
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 10:24 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

IMHO what you potentially save upfront will probably cost you dearly in 
maintenance, support issues and customer (dis)satisfaction.


Wireless Service Manager
IT Services, University of Bristol

On 20 February 2017 at 14:55, Michael Blaisdell 
<mblaisd...@francis.edu<mailto:mblaisd...@francis.edu>> wrote:
Hmm. How many rooms, buildings, and end devices, Michael?


700 rooms over 10 buildings and about 3000 end devices.

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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Bucklaew, Jerry]

Well it normally comes down to "you get what you pay for".  A quality solution 
does cost.  We did 205h in every other 
room and are happy with the outcome.  We did every other room to keep cost down 
while providing good coverage.


On 02/20/2017 02:01 PM, Norman Mourtada wrote:
> We are actively looking at both the 205H and 303H from Aruba. The list price 
> for the 205H is $695 and the new 303H is
> $495 (with wave 2 and SU/MU-MIMO) but will require a minimum OS of 6.5. I am 
> leaning towards the 303H as it will be cost
> effective with our standard discount. Planning to deploy in every other dorm 
> room with 5GHz only.
>
>
>
> *From:*The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of
> *Thomas Carter
> *Sent:* Monday, February 20, 2017 12:02 PM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example
>
>
>
> It does bring up a problem that I’ve been complaining about for a long time – 
> the top tier vendors don’t really offer
> any low cost single-room solutions, especially when it comes to ac. For 
> example, what is there between this Mikrotik
> device at $50 and an Aruba AP-205H for $400? I see they have a 203H coming, 
> but I don’t know the pricing on that. It
> seems the Cisco 1810 is a little better at $300, but for less than double 
> that cost I can support 3 rooms with a
> traditional ceiling mount. And that doesn’t include the extra controller 
> licensing and capacity required.
>
>
>
> From the point of view of someone with a small, challenging budget, I could 
> get the Aruba or Cisco and then have to keep
> them in service for 10+ years, or go for the cheaper models and replace them 
> every 3. I realize there are other issue,
> but cost is a big driver.
>

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RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Norman Mourtada]

We are actively looking at both the 205H and 303H from Aruba. The list price 
for the 205H is $695 and the new 303H is $495 (with wave 2 and SU/MU-MIMO) but 
will require a minimum OS of 6.5. I am leaning towards the 303H as it will be 
cost effective with our standard discount. Planning to deploy in every other 
dorm room with 5GHz only.

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Thomas Carter
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 12:02 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

It does bring up a problem that I’ve been complaining about for a long time – 
the top tier vendors don’t really offer any low cost single-room solutions, 
especially when it comes to ac. For example, what is there between this 
Mikrotik device at $50 and an Aruba AP-205H for $400? I see they have a 203H 
coming, but I don’t know the pricing on that. It seems the Cisco 1810 is a 
little better at $300, but for less than double that cost I can support 3 rooms 
with a traditional ceiling mount. And that doesn’t include the extra controller 
licensing and capacity required.

From the point of view of someone with a small, challenging budget, I could get 
the Aruba or Cisco and then have to keep them in service for 10+ years, or go 
for the cheaper models and replace them every 3. I realize there are other 
issue, but cost is a big driver.
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>
[http://www.austincollege.edu/images/AusColl_Logo_Email.gif]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Elley
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 10:24 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

IMHO what you potentially save upfront will probably cost you dearly in 
maintenance, support issues and customer (dis)satisfaction.


Wireless Service Manager
IT Services, University of Bristol

On 20 February 2017 at 14:55, Michael Blaisdell 
<mblaisd...@francis.edu<mailto:mblaisd...@francis.edu>> wrote:
Hmm. How many rooms, buildings, and end devices, Michael?


700 rooms over 10 buildings and about 3000 end devices.

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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Jake Snyder]

I'm not opposed to using a low cost device, just make sure you are doing things 
that are scalable and lead to good experiences.

NAT provides some hard issues to address.  First off, no roaming.  Ip 
addressing will change.  Even on a common SSID, each device will lose all 
established session on every roam.  Generally not regarded well in having a 
"good experience."

Separate SSIDs per room leads to other challenges.  The signal is confined 
locally around the room and once they leave, they have to rely on either a 
"house" network, or they start giving out each other's keys PSK in order to 
facilitate roaming.  This makes SSID selection on the device ugly and likely 
suboptimal for students a lot of the time.

How are you going to manage channel/power across a dense deployment of these 
devices?  What do you do when students have 2.4GHz only devices and their dorm 
room doesn't have the 2.4 radio enabled?  Do you alter channel plan to 
accommodate?  How do you deal with CCI? How do you get all their devices 
talking across APs?  Please not tunnels...

This isn't a new idea.  Hotels have been doing this (very poorly) for years.  
It's never been a great experience.  I can't say I've ever had a good 
experience with hotels doing SSIDs per floor or per wing.

I don't know that I have good solutions to these kinds of issues.  The best 
advice I can give is set expectations with the students, and get their feedback.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 20, 2017, at 10:01 AM, Thomas Carter <tcar...@austincollege.edu> wrote:
> 
> It does bring up a problem that I’ve been complaining about for a long time – 
> the top tier vendors don’t really offer any low cost single-room solutions, 
> especially when it comes to ac. For example, what is there between this 
> Mikrotik device at $50 and an Aruba AP-205H for $400? I see they have a 203H 
> coming, but I don’t know the pricing on that. It seems the Cisco 1810 is a 
> little better at $300, but for less than double that cost I can support 3 
> rooms with a traditional ceiling mount. And that doesn’t include the extra 
> controller licensing and capacity required.
>  
> From the point of view of someone with a small, challenging budget, I could 
> get the Aruba or Cisco and then have to keep them in service for 10+ years, 
> or go for the cheaper models and replace them every 3. I realize there are 
> other issue, but cost is a big driver.
> Thomas Carter
> Network & Operations Manager / IT
> Austin College
> 900 North Grand Avenue 
> Sherman, TX 75090
> Phone: 903-813-2564
> www.austincollege.edu
> 
>  
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Elley
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 10:24 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example
>  
> IMHO what you potentially save upfront will probably cost you dearly in 
> maintenance, support issues and customer (dis)satisfaction.
> 
>  
> Wireless Service Manager
> IT Services, University of Bristol
>  
> On 20 February 2017 at 14:55, Michael Blaisdell <mblaisd...@francis.edu> 
> wrote:
> Hmm. How many rooms, buildings, and end devices, Michael?
> 
> 
> 700 rooms over 10 buildings and about 3000 end devices.
> 
> **
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> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
>  
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> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Hunter Fuller]

Bruce,

I have had this mindset for a long time, but I've been questioning it
recently.
Due to a political situation I won't bother going into, our dorm residents
are able to purchase internet connections from wideopenwest or Comcast.
They set up their own APs and some of our dorms are rogue nightmares. We've
made a heavy push to 5GHz to combat this.

But it made me wonder... what is up with this? These students set up the
cheapest APs they can find at Best Buy, blasting at 10 watts of power
on 2GHz, right next to 3 other students doing the same thing. All students
are happy with their comcast connection and wireless performance. Meanwhile
UAH invests thousands upon thousands into enterprise wireless and it simply
cannot operate under those conditions...?
It just makes me wonder, is all...

On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 07:06 Osborne, Bruce W (Network Operations) <
bosbo...@liberty.edu> wrote:

> My first thought is this.
>
> Are these boxes centrally managed? It appears you are using WPA2-Personal.
> If so, it would be a pain to need to revisit each box every year to change
> the PSK.
> How is channel coordination happening to minimize interference?
> How will you handle misbehaving devices DOSing the network while
> minimizing the impact to roommates?
> How are you steering clients to use 5GHz for better performance?
>
> There are reasons there are Enterprise wireless systems with enterprise
> encryption options.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Blaisdell [mailto:mblaisd...@francis.edu]
> Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 8:52 PM
> Subject: In room WIFI - second example
>
> I had posted to the group a few months ago about WAPs in each dorm room.
> I received a number of comments that were very insightful.  Most agreed
> that channel plan in the 2.4 would be next to impossible and the best plan
> would be to turn off maybe every other radio and turn back the power. As
> for 5.8 I believe we agreed that channel width should be a minimum because
> we are not going for speed, we are going to coverage.
>
> I am back at the table with another twist.  I have been testing Microtik
> HAP AC lite boxes with 4 10/100 ports and both 2.4 and 5.8 radios.  I also
> have the box setup as a router for their room.  I think we can call it a
> DAN.  Dorm Area Network.  The students in the room share a common DHCP
> server and have NAT access to the campus LAN.  This allows the students to
> add devices in their rooms as they need to without affecting the network.
> The HAP also has two way firewall config so I can block all the ports and
> services I would normally but I can do it at the end point.  I guess the
> dorms are running like an individual household and I am the ISP.
>
> Each room has a unique SSID and authentication.
>
> This is just a test in a few locations at this point but it has worked
> great.
>
> I am looking for feedback like last time.   Please feel free to cut hard
> and deep if necessary.  Security issues could be my biggest issues.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Michael Blaisdell
> Director of Network Services
> IT Services
> Learning Commons/Library
> Saint Francis University
> 117 Evergreen Drive
> Loretto, PA  15940
> 814-472-3242
> http://www.francis.edu
> The best way to predict the future is to invent it. Alan Kay
>
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> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
>
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>
-- 

--
Hunter Fuller
Network Engineer
VBRH Annex B-1
+1 256 824 5331

Office of Information Technology
The University of Alabama in Huntsville
Systems and Infrastructure

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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[GT Hill]

Maybe reach out to Ruckus. They sell a lot into hospitality and can get very 
aggressive with pricing for what you are looking to do. Tell them I sent you 
(used to work there). 

And then what will likely happen is that Aruba or Cisco will hate that you and 
then try to beat them on pricing. :-) 

GT

From:  The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of Thomas Carter 
<tcar...@austincollege.edu>
Reply-To:  The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
<WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Date:  Monday, February 20, 2017 at 11:01 AM
To:  <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject:  Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

It does bring up a problem that I’ve been complaining about for a long time – 
the top tier vendors don’t really offer any low cost single-room solutions, 
especially when it comes to ac. For example, what is there between this 
Mikrotik device at $50 and an Aruba AP-205H for $400? I see they have a 203H 
coming, but I don’t know the pricing on that. It seems the Cisco 1810 is a 
little better at $300, but for less than double that cost I can support 3 rooms 
with a traditional ceiling mount. And that doesn’t include the extra controller 
licensing and capacity required. 

 

>From the point of view of someone with a small, challenging budget, I could 
>get the Aruba or Cisco and then have to keep them in service for 10+ years, or 
>go for the cheaper models and replace them every 3. I realize there are other 
>issue, but cost is a big driver.

Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT

Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue 
Sherman, TX 75090

Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu

 

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Elley
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 10:24 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

 

IMHO what you potentially save upfront will probably cost you dearly in 
maintenance, support issues and customer (dis)satisfaction.


 

Wireless Service Manager
IT Services, University of Bristol 

 

On 20 February 2017 at 14:55, Michael Blaisdell <mblaisd...@francis.edu> wrote:

Hmm. How many rooms, buildings, and end devices, Michael?


700 rooms over 10 buildings and about 3000 end devices.


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RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Thomas Carter]

It does bring up a problem that I’ve been complaining about for a long time – 
the top tier vendors don’t really offer any low cost single-room solutions, 
especially when it comes to ac. For example, what is there between this 
Mikrotik device at $50 and an Aruba AP-205H for $400? I see they have a 203H 
coming, but I don’t know the pricing on that. It seems the Cisco 1810 is a 
little better at $300, but for less than double that cost I can support 3 rooms 
with a traditional ceiling mount. And that doesn’t include the extra controller 
licensing and capacity required.

From the point of view of someone with a small, challenging budget, I could get 
the Aruba or Cisco and then have to keep them in service for 10+ years, or go 
for the cheaper models and replace them every 3. I realize there are other 
issue, but cost is a big driver.
Thomas Carter
Network & Operations Manager / IT
Austin College
900 North Grand Avenue
Sherman, TX 75090
Phone: 903-813-2564
www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/>
[http://www.austincollege.edu/images/AusColl_Logo_Email.gif]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Elley
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 10:24 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

IMHO what you potentially save upfront will probably cost you dearly in 
maintenance, support issues and customer (dis)satisfaction.


Wireless Service Manager
IT Services, University of Bristol

On 20 February 2017 at 14:55, Michael Blaisdell 
<mblaisd...@francis.edu<mailto:mblaisd...@francis.edu>> wrote:
Hmm. How many rooms, buildings, and end devices, Michael?


700 rooms over 10 buildings and about 3000 end devices.

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RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

[Lee H Badman]

That's going to be tremendously difficult to manage, is my first thought.

Lee Badman
Network Architect/Wireless TME
Syracuse University
315.443.3003

-Original Message-
From: Michael Blaisdell [mblaisd...@francis.edu]
Received: Monday, 20 Feb 2017, 9:56
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example

Hmm. How many rooms, buildings, and end devices, Michael?


700 rooms over 10 buildings and about 3000 end devices.

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