As Philippe notes, and I’ll expand on, selecting prior generation hardware makes little sense when considering life-cycle. Unless it’s installed and code is never updated (you are frozen in time), you’ll hit EOL (and end of support) far faster than when starting with current generation. Purchase a .11ac wave 2 today and you’ll have at least six years of support. Purchase .11n, you’ll be lucky to get half of that.
Oh, and as a college who is running 802.11ac wave 2 gear (including multigig), there is absolutely a huge client performance difference between this hardware, our Wave 1 11.ac hardware, and for sure our 802.11n stuff. Compared to our Wave 1 deployments, we’re seeing up to a 10-30x increase in peak client data rates and overall bandwidth is also way up. Similar building, similar AP placement, only the technology has changed. Jeff From: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of GT Hill <g...@gthill.com> Reply-To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 at 8:08 AM To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example I’m sure I’m probably going against the grain here, but if I had to choose, I’d buy used 11n APs from an enterprise manufacturer before I’d go 11ac from a “cheaper” manufacturer. Number one, virtually any environment you have will be served just fine with 11n. And to further make my point, the difference between 11ac and 11n for a dorm in wall AP is virtually nothing. Max of 2x2:2, no one should be using 80 or 160 MHz channels (11ac) and MU-MIMO (11ac) basically doesn’t exist in 2x2:2 so 11ac (wave 1 or wave 2) features are basically nonexistent or useless in this environment. If I had budget and could afford 11ac, sure, its the way to go. But if I’m on a budget, used or discount enterprise 11n hardware will give you great performance. And one more thing; there is absolutely a major difference in performance between a true enterprise manufacturer and an entry level system. In my previous life I ran the team that’s entire job was to test gear to see what the limits of APs really were. The more that cheaper gear is pushed (client count, data transfer, etc.) the more they would fail under those loads. GT From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> on behalf of Thomas Carter <tcar...@austincollege.edu<mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>> Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 at 8:47 AM To: <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example Sorry for the comment spam. I think my ideal is for someone like Aruba, Cisco, etc to have lower cost options that can be mixed in with the better APs. I want those for the high capacity locations like classrooms, etc and the lower cost options for low usage areas, better density for dorms, etc. Thomas Carter Network & Operations Manager / IT Austin College 900 North Grand Avenue Sherman, TX 75090 Phone: 903-813-2564 www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/> [ttp://www.austincollege.edu/images/AusColl_Logo_Email.gif] From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Philippe Hanset Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:21 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example Thomas et al., For people looking for creative/more affordable systems (not discussing all the drawbacks etc ;-), you could also look at Benu Networks. http://benu.net/solutions/ It seems to be based on White Label APs with Open Source code and centrally managed offering. (I met their CTO at a conference and it seemed pretty interesting, but I have never tested) Has anyone on the list investigated this system? Philippe Philippe Hanset, CEO www.anyroam.net<http://www.anyroam.net> www.eduroam.us<http://www.eduroam.us> +1 (865) 236-0770 On Feb 21, 2017, at 10:12 AM, Thomas Carter <tcar...@austincollege.edu<mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>> wrote: Yes, or in some cases, no budget cuts but increased requirements/demands for wireless. Thomas Carter Network & Operations Manager / IT Austin College 900 North Grand Avenue Sherman, TX 75090 Phone: 903-813-2564 www.austincollege.edu<http://www.austincollege.edu/> <image001.gif> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Ian Lyons Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 8:53 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example A better way to ask the question (perhaps?): Your budget was cut in half but your requirements of installing/having AC Wireless was not changed? Simple answer is something has to give. I understand your pain. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Thomas Carter Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:50 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example In the example I used below, there wasn’t an FTE to eliminate. There is no way that Meraki, Aerohive, and Ruckus can be cheaper, especially when TCO is concerned. That annual license/controller cost for Meraki and Aerohive wouldn’t be there. I guess I’m not making my point well. It seems like most of the responses assume there is enough budget for a top tier solution and this is just about not spending all of it. Imagine your budget for wireless was cut in half. What would you do? Thomas Carter Network & Operations Manager / IT Austin College 900 North Grand Avenue Sherman, TX 75090 Phone: 903-813-2564 www.austincollege.edu<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.austincollege.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cd7de358c1cef494f5cbf08d45a68ee6a%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C636232854208154442&sdata=fRj0Ny06vnlMGanBNTm8Gz8qwYgaEtNN4zo%2BfxYHits%3D&reserved=0> <image001.gif> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 3:52 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example In the k-12 space, Cisco Meraki, Aerohive, and Ruckus continue to be the big players even in small districts, with others, including Ubiquiti, not making much of a dent. Those solutions also tend to come in at or lower than Ubiquiti. One of the drivers for solutions such as Meraki is that from management’s perspective, the cloud-based platform and extensive support channel means you don’t need all those expensive FTE’s to run it, while at the same time gaining many of the enterprise features you care most about. The reduction of even a single FTE costing say $100K per year including benefits purchases a whole lot of additional wireless hardware. Jeff From: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> on behalf of Thomas Carter <tcar...@austincollege.edu<mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>> Reply-To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> Date: Monday, February 20, 2017 at 12:08 PM To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example I’m not questioning the cost, just the available options. I feel like I sometimes want to tow a 15’ travel trailer and my options from the established vendors are a Peterbuilt, Mack, and Freightligner at 4x the cost of an F-150 that is adequate to the task. Because of that, there are a lot of small schools, businesses, etc, that are now turning to Ubiquiti, Open Mesh, Mikrotik, etc for their good-enough. I do believe you get what you pay for, but there are limits on what you can afford. Here’s the story of a friend; a campus of APs between 5-10 years old. Over the next 5 years he could only get the budget to replace only ½ of them with a Cisco/Aruba/Ruckus/etc. Over the next 3 years, he could replace all of them with Ubiquiti. What choice do you make? Thomas Carter Network & Operations Manager / IT Austin College 900 North Grand Avenue Sherman, TX 75090 Phone: 903-813-2564 www.austincollege.edu<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.austincollege.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cd7de358c1cef494f5cbf08d45a68ee6a%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C636232854208154442&sdata=fRj0Ny06vnlMGanBNTm8Gz8qwYgaEtNN4zo%2BfxYHits%3D&reserved=0> <image002.gif> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey D. Sessler Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 1:44 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example On the cost of devices. Some enterprise vendor solutions may be nothing more than the same off-the-shelf design that the consumer models use, including using the same radio code. When there are radio code issues, the vendor goes back to Broadcom, Marvell, or Qualcomm for a fix. Other enterprise vendors go as far as to license the radio source code, where you get unique features not otherwise available with off-the-shelf designs. That said, the enterprise WAP vendor does write the code that does all the rest of the magic in the WAP e.g. interface, controller connectivity, and so on. In general, the cost you are paying for the enterprise WAPs involves a lot more than just the hardware cost with most of it in the value/development cost of the IP (software underpinning the system). Jeff From: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> on behalf of Thomas Carter <tcar...@austincollege.edu<mailto:tcar...@austincollege.edu>> Reply-To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> Date: Monday, February 20, 2017 at 9:01 AM To: "wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:wireless-lan@listserv.educause.edu>" <WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example It does bring up a problem that I’ve been complaining about for a long time – the top tier vendors don’t really offer any low cost single-room solutions, especially when it comes to ac. For example, what is there between this Mikrotik device at $50 and an Aruba AP-205H for $400? I see they have a 203H coming, but I don’t know the pricing on that. It seems the Cisco 1810 is a little better at $300, but for less than double that cost I can support 3 rooms with a traditional ceiling mount. And that doesn’t include the extra controller licensing and capacity required. From the point of view of someone with a small, challenging budget, I could get the Aruba or Cisco and then have to keep them in service for 10+ years, or go for the cheaper models and replace them every 3. I realize there are other issue, but cost is a big driver. Thomas Carter Network & Operations Manager / IT Austin College 900 North Grand Avenue Sherman, TX 75090 Phone: 903-813-2564 www.austincollege.edu<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.austincollege.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cd7de358c1cef494f5cbf08d45a68ee6a%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C636232854208154442&sdata=fRj0Ny06vnlMGanBNTm8Gz8qwYgaEtNN4zo%2BfxYHits%3D&reserved=0> <image003.gif> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Elley Sent: Monday, February 20, 2017 10:24 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] In room WIFI - second example IMHO what you potentially save upfront will probably cost you dearly in maintenance, support issues and customer (dis)satisfaction. Wireless Service Manager IT Services, University of Bristol On 20 February 2017 at 14:55, Michael Blaisdell <mblaisd...@francis.edu<mailto:mblaisd...@francis.edu>> wrote: Hmm. How many rooms, buildings, and end devices, Michael? 700 rooms over 10 buildings and about 3000 end devices. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found athttp://www.educause.edu/discuss<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.educause.edu%2Fdiscuss&data=02%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cd7de358c1cef494f5cbf08d45a68ee6a%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C636232854208154442&sdata=ClONR840eI%2B%2FO9QwRNqNHnNAarSKc5l%2FtSiIvZz6qRA%3D&reserved=0>. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found athttp://www.educause.edu/discuss<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.educause.edu%2Fdiscuss&data=02%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cd7de358c1cef494f5cbf08d45a68ee6a%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C636232854208154442&sdata=ClONR840eI%2B%2FO9QwRNqNHnNAarSKc5l%2FtSiIvZz6qRA%3D&reserved=0>. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found athttp://www.educause.edu/discuss<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.educause.edu%2Fdiscuss&data=02%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cd7de358c1cef494f5cbf08d45a68ee6a%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C636232854208154442&sdata=ClONR840eI%2B%2FO9QwRNqNHnNAarSKc5l%2FtSiIvZz6qRA%3D&reserved=0>. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found athttp://www.educause.edu/discuss<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.educause.edu%2Fdiscuss&data=02%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cd7de358c1cef494f5cbf08d45a68ee6a%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C636232854208154442&sdata=ClONR840eI%2B%2FO9QwRNqNHnNAarSKc5l%2FtSiIvZz6qRA%3D&reserved=0>. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found athttp://www.educause.edu/discuss<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.educause.edu%2Fdiscuss&data=02%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cd7de358c1cef494f5cbf08d45a68ee6a%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C636232854208154442&sdata=ClONR840eI%2B%2FO9QwRNqNHnNAarSKc5l%2FtSiIvZz6qRA%3D&reserved=0>. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found athttp://www.educause.edu/discuss<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.educause.edu%2Fdiscuss&data=02%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cd7de358c1cef494f5cbf08d45a68ee6a%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C636232854208154442&sdata=ClONR840eI%2B%2FO9QwRNqNHnNAarSKc5l%2FtSiIvZz6qRA%3D&reserved=0>. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found athttp://www.educause.edu/discuss<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.educause.edu%2Fdiscuss&data=02%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cd7de358c1cef494f5cbf08d45a68ee6a%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C636232854208154442&sdata=ClONR840eI%2B%2FO9QwRNqNHnNAarSKc5l%2FtSiIvZz6qRA%3D&reserved=0>. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found athttp://www.educause.edu/discuss. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss. ********** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/discuss.
