Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
I want to you use Freeside badly for a while now, but the Billing Manager is nervous transferring data? Does anybody know if you can set a single billing day within Freeside? IE? The 17th of every month. -Cameron Midcoast Internet -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 5:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema Freeside is the new interface. I only use Mikrotik devices (including CPE, which are the customer's router). -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Cameron Kilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema What are you using for web interface. We are using radius for our PPPoE. One of the problems we have noticed with PPPoE using MikroTik to pass the data to the radius server is some routers have a hard time connecting through it. Computers directly work fine, but some of the cheaper routers struggle as well as Apple Airports. -Cameron Midcoast Internet -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 8:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema It has similar ease of address distribution as DHCP, but also carries rate limiting information as well. I'm switching to having the PPPoE backed by RADIUS, so my new management system will be a web interface where I can change anything relating to the customer from a central interface. There are no special steps in setting up any customer side equipment. My CPE also do NATing and LAN side DHCP. If it didn't, every router sold today has a setup process required for installation and have a PPPoE route. I am 100% against a broadband client's PC directly on the network. It should only be done during special circumstances, and the user would then be more than intelligent enough to configure PPPoE. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema PPPoE Y'know, I've never understood why many ISPs are so fond of PPPOE. The only benefits anyone has ever articulated to me are an alleged improvement in ease of tracking customer-IP associations, and your DHCP server and tower logs should take care of that for you just as easily. In the meantime, you risk annoying your customers, because they have to take special steps to set up a new computer or router, whereas with a DHCP server things will just work 90% of the time. Not meaning to troll, I'm genuinely curious. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
Yes you can Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: Cameron Kilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema I want to you use Freeside badly for a while now, but the Billing Manager is nervous transferring data? Does anybody know if you can set a single billing day within Freeside? IE? The 17th of every month. -Cameron Midcoast Internet -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 5:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema Freeside is the new interface. I only use Mikrotik devices (including CPE, which are the customer's router). -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Cameron Kilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema What are you using for web interface. We are using radius for our PPPoE. One of the problems we have noticed with PPPoE using MikroTik to pass the data to the radius server is some routers have a hard time connecting through it. Computers directly work fine, but some of the cheaper routers struggle as well as Apple Airports. -Cameron Midcoast Internet -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 8:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema It has similar ease of address distribution as DHCP, but also carries rate limiting information as well. I'm switching to having the PPPoE backed by RADIUS, so my new management system will be a web interface where I can change anything relating to the customer from a central interface. There are no special steps in setting up any customer side equipment. My CPE also do NATing and LAN side DHCP. If it didn't, every router sold today has a setup process required for installation and have a PPPoE route. I am 100% against a broadband client's PC directly on the network. It should only be done during special circumstances, and the user would then be more than intelligent enough to configure PPPoE. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema PPPoE Y'know, I've never understood why many ISPs are so fond of PPPOE. The only benefits anyone has ever articulated to me are an alleged improvement in ease of tracking customer-IP associations, and your DHCP server and tower logs should take care of that for you just as easily. In the meantime, you risk annoying your customers, because they have to take special steps to set up a new computer or router, whereas with a DHCP server things will just work 90% of the time. Not meaning to troll, I'm genuinely curious. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
Sweet, baby steps. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jory Privett Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema Yes you can Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: Cameron Kilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema I want to you use Freeside badly for a while now, but the Billing Manager is nervous transferring data? Does anybody know if you can set a single billing day within Freeside? IE? The 17th of every month. -Cameron Midcoast Internet -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 5:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema Freeside is the new interface. I only use Mikrotik devices (including CPE, which are the customer's router). -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Cameron Kilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema What are you using for web interface. We are using radius for our PPPoE. One of the problems we have noticed with PPPoE using MikroTik to pass the data to the radius server is some routers have a hard time connecting through it. Computers directly work fine, but some of the cheaper routers struggle as well as Apple Airports. -Cameron Midcoast Internet -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 8:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema It has similar ease of address distribution as DHCP, but also carries rate limiting information as well. I'm switching to having the PPPoE backed by RADIUS, so my new management system will be a web interface where I can change anything relating to the customer from a central interface. There are no special steps in setting up any customer side equipment. My CPE also do NATing and LAN side DHCP. If it didn't, every router sold today has a setup process required for installation and have a PPPoE route. I am 100% against a broadband client's PC directly on the network. It should only be done during special circumstances, and the user would then be more than intelligent enough to configure PPPoE. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema PPPoE Y'know, I've never understood why many ISPs are so fond of PPPOE. The only benefits anyone has ever articulated to me are an alleged improvement in ease of tracking customer-IP associations, and your DHCP server and tower logs should take care of that for you just as easily. In the meantime, you risk annoying your customers, because they have to take special steps to set up a new computer or router, whereas with a DHCP server things will just work 90% of the time. Not meaning to troll, I'm genuinely curious. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
I don't know. It seems others have answered, but I haven't read them yet. It is open source, so you can technically do anything you want. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Cameron Kilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema I want to you use Freeside badly for a while now, but the Billing Manager is nervous transferring data? Does anybody know if you can set a single billing day within Freeside? IE? The 17th of every month. -Cameron Midcoast Internet -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 5:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema Freeside is the new interface. I only use Mikrotik devices (including CPE, which are the customer's router). -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Cameron Kilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema What are you using for web interface. We are using radius for our PPPoE. One of the problems we have noticed with PPPoE using MikroTik to pass the data to the radius server is some routers have a hard time connecting through it. Computers directly work fine, but some of the cheaper routers struggle as well as Apple Airports. -Cameron Midcoast Internet -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 8:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema It has similar ease of address distribution as DHCP, but also carries rate limiting information as well. I'm switching to having the PPPoE backed by RADIUS, so my new management system will be a web interface where I can change anything relating to the customer from a central interface. There are no special steps in setting up any customer side equipment. My CPE also do NATing and LAN side DHCP. If it didn't, every router sold today has a setup process required for installation and have a PPPoE route. I am 100% against a broadband client's PC directly on the network. It should only be done during special circumstances, and the user would then be more than intelligent enough to configure PPPoE. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema PPPoE Y'know, I've never understood why many ISPs are so fond of PPPOE. The only benefits anyone has ever articulated to me are an alleged improvement in ease of tracking customer-IP associations, and your DHCP server and tower logs should take care of that for you just as easily. In the meantime, you risk annoying your customers, because they have to take special steps to set up a new computer or router, whereas with a DHCP server things will just work 90% of the time. Not meaning to troll, I'm genuinely curious. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
We use a mix. Everybody gets a static per say. But we assign those IP via PPPoE. Some areas we do DHCP but it will not hand out a DHCP addresses until we add the Mac address of that device into the DHCP server. This was kind of neat, but can be a pain walking certain customers to providing a mac address. Cameron Midcoast Internet -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2 Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 11:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema If you have ever renumbered your entire network due to changing upstream providers or running out of IP, you will wish you had used DHCP everywhere. - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema And to take it one step further, I've never understood using DHCP for customers. It makes it 10x easier for a rogue client to get on your network if you run DHCP instead of just static. You don't have to maintain any logs, or worry about your DHCP server having problems, etc. It seems one step easier than DHCP. Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote: PPPoE Y'know, I've never understood why many ISPs are so fond of PPPOE. The only benefits anyone has ever articulated to me are an alleged improvement in ease of tracking customer-IP associations, and your DHCP server and tower logs should take care of that for you just as easily. In the meantime, you risk annoying your customers, because they have to take special steps to set up a new computer or router, whereas with a DHCP server things will just work 90% of the time. Not meaning to troll, I'm genuinely curious. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
It has similar ease of address distribution as DHCP, but also carries rate limiting information as well. I'm switching to having the PPPoE backed by RADIUS, so my new management system will be a web interface where I can change anything relating to the customer from a central interface. There are no special steps in setting up any customer side equipment. My CPE also do NATing and LAN side DHCP. If it didn't, every router sold today has a setup process required for installation and have a PPPoE route. I am 100% against a broadband client's PC directly on the network. It should only be done during special circumstances, and the user would then be more than intelligent enough to configure PPPoE. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema PPPoE Y'know, I've never understood why many ISPs are so fond of PPPOE. The only benefits anyone has ever articulated to me are an alleged improvement in ease of tracking customer-IP associations, and your DHCP server and tower logs should take care of that for you just as easily. In the meantime, you risk annoying your customers, because they have to take special steps to set up a new computer or router, whereas with a DHCP server things will just work 90% of the time. Not meaning to troll, I'm genuinely curious. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
What are you using for web interface. We are using radius for our PPPoE. One of the problems we have noticed with PPPoE using MikroTik to pass the data to the radius server is some routers have a hard time connecting through it. Computers directly work fine, but some of the cheaper routers struggle as well as Apple Airports. -Cameron Midcoast Internet -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 8:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema It has similar ease of address distribution as DHCP, but also carries rate limiting information as well. I'm switching to having the PPPoE backed by RADIUS, so my new management system will be a web interface where I can change anything relating to the customer from a central interface. There are no special steps in setting up any customer side equipment. My CPE also do NATing and LAN side DHCP. If it didn't, every router sold today has a setup process required for installation and have a PPPoE route. I am 100% against a broadband client's PC directly on the network. It should only be done during special circumstances, and the user would then be more than intelligent enough to configure PPPoE. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema PPPoE Y'know, I've never understood why many ISPs are so fond of PPPOE. The only benefits anyone has ever articulated to me are an alleged improvement in ease of tracking customer-IP associations, and your DHCP server and tower logs should take care of that for you just as easily. In the meantime, you risk annoying your customers, because they have to take special steps to set up a new computer or router, whereas with a DHCP server things will just work 90% of the time. Not meaning to troll, I'm genuinely curious. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
Mike Hammett wrote: [ on the benefits of PPPoE ] It has similar ease of address distribution as DHCP, but also carries rate limiting information as well. I'm switching to having the PPPoE backed by RADIUS, so my new management system will be a web interface where I can change anything relating to the customer from a central interface. You can tie RADIUS into DHCP just as easily, and I still think DHCP makes life easier for the subscriber than PPPoE. That said, we only have DHCP for some of the newer ends of our network. Many of our older locations have static IP addressing, which we track in an in-house database. We're moving away from that because it was rapidly becoming impossible to keep the database current, with a half-dozen people making changes for different reasons. (Also because it was basically a glorified spreadsheet, and not really connected to our billing system, so there are tens if not hundreds of entries in there for customers that have been moved to different towers, or to different towns, or changed to different equipment, or...) Humans occasionally forget to make these updates, whereas PPPoE or DHCP or any mostly-automated system, built properly, should handle these details for you. I think the real object lesson here is that trying to manage everything by hand is the only bad answer :P David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
We have always given a public IP address to every connection. We have done both DHCP and Static. DHCP was done purely on DHCP reservation. In other words, we had 0 IP addresses in a dynamic pool, then would put in DHCP reservations for our customers CPE. At one point, I started buying Tranzeo TR-CPQ's (which I'm now ebaying in favor of StarOS units), which can be routers, but I had them in bridge mode. This meant that I either had to statically assign the IP address to the customer's computer or router, or deliver via DHCP or PPPoE. I wasn't interested AT ALL in having people program their routers or worse yet, install PPPoE software on their computers or configure Windows in any way (we have enjoyed a 'hands-off' approach to people's computers...in that if we don't install software we could not have caused a problem and therefore are not required to fully support their computer). Anyway, we initially installed the Tranzeo CPEs in bridge mode with a private IP address, and gave a public to the customer's computer/router via DHCP reservation. We talked people through giving us their MAC address. For the most part, this was/is easy. It was a pain once in awhile, but it allowed us to give statically-assigned IP addresses for accountability. Now we only do this for the CPEs that cannot go into router mode (older BreezeComs and Turbocell bridges...which we will also be ebaying to replace them with StarOS CPEs). We turned the Tranzeos into NAT routers, put a static public IP on them, and man our life became easier. Routers and computers come online so easily. If a customer needs something trickier than what the Tranzeo can give them, we put a StarOS CPE there and we can do whatever routing scenario we want to. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: Cameron Kilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 5:31 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema We use a mix. Everybody gets a static per say. But we assign those IP via PPPoE. Some areas we do DHCP but it will not hand out a DHCP addresses until we add the Mac address of that device into the DHCP server. This was kind of neat, but can be a pain walking certain customers to providing a mac address. Cameron Midcoast Internet -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2 Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 11:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema If you have ever renumbered your entire network due to changing upstream providers or running out of IP, you will wish you had used DHCP everywhere. - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema And to take it one step further, I've never understood using DHCP for customers. It makes it 10x easier for a rogue client to get on your network if you run DHCP instead of just static. You don't have to maintain any logs, or worry about your DHCP server having problems, etc. It seems one step easier than DHCP. Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote: PPPoE Y'know, I've never understood why many ISPs are so fond of PPPOE. The only benefits anyone has ever articulated to me are an alleged improvement in ease of tracking customer-IP associations, and your DHCP server and tower logs should take care of that for you just as easily. In the meantime, you risk annoying your customers, because they have to take special steps to set up a new computer or router, whereas with a DHCP server things will just work 90% of the time. Not meaning to troll, I'm genuinely curious. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
I do this with my tranzeo's cpe as well I don't want to know or have any cotrol over what happens on the customer's side of the cpe. This gives me a clear demark between the customer's network and mine. It also helps limit the amount of client machine broadcasts my network needs to hear. I bill for time spent fixing my customers home networks. ryan -Original Message- From: Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 10:43 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema We have always given a public IP address to every connection. We have done both DHCP and Static. DHCP was done purely on DHCP reservation. In other words, we had 0 IP addresses in a dynamic pool, then would put in DHCP reservations for our customers CPE. At one point, I started buying Tranzeo TR-CPQ's (which I'm now ebaying in favor of StarOS units), which can be routers, but I had them in bridge mode WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
Right. Manual is the only bad answer. DHCP isn't bad, but I just like PPPoE better. It has rate limiting abilities based on the individual user's profile. It requires a username\password to get an IP. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema Mike Hammett wrote: [ on the benefits of PPPoE ] It has similar ease of address distribution as DHCP, but also carries rate limiting information as well. I'm switching to having the PPPoE backed by RADIUS, so my new management system will be a web interface where I can change anything relating to the customer from a central interface. You can tie RADIUS into DHCP just as easily, and I still think DHCP makes life easier for the subscriber than PPPoE. That said, we only have DHCP for some of the newer ends of our network. Many of our older locations have static IP addressing, which we track in an in-house database. We're moving away from that because it was rapidly becoming impossible to keep the database current, with a half-dozen people making changes for different reasons. (Also because it was basically a glorified spreadsheet, and not really connected to our billing system, so there are tens if not hundreds of entries in there for customers that have been moved to different towers, or to different towns, or changed to different equipment, or...) Humans occasionally forget to make these updates, whereas PPPoE or DHCP or any mostly-automated system, built properly, should handle these details for you. I think the real object lesson here is that trying to manage everything by hand is the only bad answer :P David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
Freeside is the new interface. I only use Mikrotik devices (including CPE, which are the customer's router). -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Cameron Kilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema What are you using for web interface. We are using radius for our PPPoE. One of the problems we have noticed with PPPoE using MikroTik to pass the data to the radius server is some routers have a hard time connecting through it. Computers directly work fine, but some of the cheaper routers struggle as well as Apple Airports. -Cameron Midcoast Internet -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 8:30 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema It has similar ease of address distribution as DHCP, but also carries rate limiting information as well. I'm switching to having the PPPoE backed by RADIUS, so my new management system will be a web interface where I can change anything relating to the customer from a central interface. There are no special steps in setting up any customer side equipment. My CPE also do NATing and LAN side DHCP. If it didn't, every router sold today has a setup process required for installation and have a PPPoE route. I am 100% against a broadband client's PC directly on the network. It should only be done during special circumstances, and the user would then be more than intelligent enough to configure PPPoE. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema PPPoE Y'know, I've never understood why many ISPs are so fond of PPPOE. The only benefits anyone has ever articulated to me are an alleged improvement in ease of tracking customer-IP associations, and your DHCP server and tower logs should take care of that for you just as easily. In the meantime, you risk annoying your customers, because they have to take special steps to set up a new computer or router, whereas with a DHCP server things will just work 90% of the time. Not meaning to troll, I'm genuinely curious. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
Just curious to NAT or not to NAT, We have been operating with NATed addresses out to our customers on a 10.x.x.x private network, the trouble is more and more customers are wanting to use services that require a public IP, such as remote security camera monitoring, etc... we currently have been offering a static public IP for $30/mo in addition to subscription, but this is not so popular. Is anyone offering public IPs out to customers and how do you do so when you have more customers than IP addresses. FYI, we are using MT routers to handle DHCP and NATing. Thanks __ Patrick Nix, Jr., csweb.net (800) 638-2614 http://www.csweb.net http://www.csweb.net/ E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTENTION: This e-mail may contain information that is confidential in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
Patrick Nix Jr. wrote: We have been operating with NATed addresses out to our customers on a 10.x.x.x private network, the trouble is more and more customers are wanting to use services that require a public IP, such as remote security camera monitoring, etc... we currently have been offering a static public IP for $30/mo in addition to subscription, but this is not so popular. Is anyone offering public IPs out to customers and how do you do so when you have more customers than IP addresses. FYI, we are using MT routers to handle DHCP and NATing. How can you get by without offering public addresses? Sorry, I sorta thought that was a given. If you don't have enough IP addresses, get some more. Your upstream ISP should be able to help you out with this easily enough - they'll probably want justification for your usage of the IP space to satisfy ARIN requirements, but one IP per customer is generally sufficient for that. You'll want to continue using private addressing for some things (your network infrastructure, possibly even your CPE devices), just to conserve the limited number of public IPs available. (By some estimates, the entire IPv4 address space will be gone in four or five years.) If you need more than a couple thousand IPs, you can probably qualify for a direct allocation from ARIN. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
We have always offered a single public IP address to every customer (dial-up, DSL, wireless, fiber, etc.) and then we charge $5/mo for each extra IP. It makes life SO much easier to track down customers when law enforcement comes with a subpeona, because the customer's IP never changes. We have our own IP space from ARIN. Costs us $5.20 per month per Class C. Travis Microserv Patrick Nix Jr. wrote: Just curious to NAT or not to NAT, We have been operating with NATed addresses out to our customers on a 10.x.x.x private network, the trouble is more and more customers are wanting to use services that require a public IP, such as remote security camera monitoring, etc... we currently have been offering a static public IP for $30/mo in addition to subscription, but this is not so popular. Is anyone offering public IPs out to customers and how do you do so when you have more customers than IP addresses. FYI, we are using MT routers to handle DHCP and NATing. Thanks __ Patrick Nix, Jr., csweb.net (800) 638-2614 http://www.csweb.net http://www.csweb.net/ E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTENTION: This e-mail may contain information that is confidential in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
Agreed. There is no good reason not to give one public IP to each client. There are many reasons why it is a bad idea to NAT clients behind private IPs. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 4:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema We have always offered a single public IP address to every customer (dial-up, DSL, wireless, fiber, etc.) and then we charge $5/mo for each extra IP. It makes life SO much easier to track down customers when law enforcement comes with a subpeona, because the customer's IP never changes. We have our own IP space from ARIN. Costs us $5.20 per month per Class C. Travis Microserv Patrick Nix Jr. wrote: Just curious to NAT or not to NAT, We have been operating with NATed addresses out to our customers on a 10.x.x.x private network, the trouble is more and more customers are wanting to use services that require a public IP, such as remote security camera monitoring, etc... we currently have been offering a static public IP for $30/mo in addition to subscription, but this is not so popular. Is anyone offering public IPs out to customers and how do you do so when you have more customers than IP addresses. FYI, we are using MT routers to handle DHCP and NATing. Thanks __ Patrick Nix, Jr., csweb.net (800) 638-2614 http://www.csweb.net http://www.csweb.net/ E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTENTION: This e-mail may contain information that is confidential in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
So then, static or DHCP'd __ Patrick Nix, Jr., csweb.net (800) 638-2614 http://www.csweb.net E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTENTION: This e-mail may contain information that is confidential in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 4:31 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema Agreed. There is no good reason not to give one public IP to each client. There are many reasons why it is a bad idea to NAT clients behind private IPs. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 4:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema We have always offered a single public IP address to every customer (dial-up, DSL, wireless, fiber, etc.) and then we charge $5/mo for each extra IP. It makes life SO much easier to track down customers when law enforcement comes with a subpeona, because the customer's IP never changes. We have our own IP space from ARIN. Costs us $5.20 per month per Class C. Travis Microserv Patrick Nix Jr. wrote: Just curious to NAT or not to NAT, We have been operating with NATed addresses out to our customers on a 10.x.x.x private network, the trouble is more and more customers are wanting to use services that require a public IP, such as remote security camera monitoring, etc... we currently have been offering a static public IP for $30/mo in addition to subscription, but this is not so popular. Is anyone offering public IPs out to customers and how do you do so when you have more customers than IP addresses. FYI, we are using MT routers to handle DHCP and NATing. Thanks __ Patrick Nix, Jr., csweb.net (800) 638-2614 http://www.csweb.net http://www.csweb.net/ E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTENTION: This e-mail may contain information that is confidential in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
I don't think there is anything wrong with DHCPing public IPs, but if we used DHCP we would reserve an IP for each client to insure the client always gets the same IP address. We own and manage a CPE router for every client, so this is really a non-issue for our network design. For those that don't want to provide a router for each client then it might be a little more to handle with DHCP, but certainly still manageable. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Nix Jr. Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 4:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema So then, static or DHCP'd __ Patrick Nix, Jr., csweb.net (800) 638-2614 http://www.csweb.net E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTENTION: This e-mail may contain information that is confidential in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 4:31 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema Agreed. There is no good reason not to give one public IP to each client. There are many reasons why it is a bad idea to NAT clients behind private IPs. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 4:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema We have always offered a single public IP address to every customer (dial-up, DSL, wireless, fiber, etc.) and then we charge $5/mo for each extra IP. It makes life SO much easier to track down customers when law enforcement comes with a subpeona, because the customer's IP never changes. We have our own IP space from ARIN. Costs us $5.20 per month per Class C. Travis Microserv Patrick Nix Jr. wrote: Just curious to NAT or not to NAT, We have been operating with NATed addresses out to our customers on a 10.x.x.x private network, the trouble is more and more customers are wanting to use services that require a public IP, such as remote security camera monitoring, etc... we currently have been offering a static public IP for $30/mo in addition to subscription, but this is not so popular. Is anyone offering public IPs out to customers and how do you do so when you have more customers than IP addresses. FYI, we are using MT routers to handle DHCP and NATing. Thanks __ Patrick Nix, Jr., csweb.net (800) 638-2614 http://www.csweb.net http://www.csweb.net/ E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTENTION: This e-mail may contain information that is confidential in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
PPPoE -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Patrick Nix Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema So then, static or DHCP'd __ Patrick Nix, Jr., csweb.net (800) 638-2614 http://www.csweb.net E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTENTION: This e-mail may contain information that is confidential in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 4:31 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema Agreed. There is no good reason not to give one public IP to each client. There are many reasons why it is a bad idea to NAT clients behind private IPs. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 4:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema We have always offered a single public IP address to every customer (dial-up, DSL, wireless, fiber, etc.) and then we charge $5/mo for each extra IP. It makes life SO much easier to track down customers when law enforcement comes with a subpeona, because the customer's IP never changes. We have our own IP space from ARIN. Costs us $5.20 per month per Class C. Travis Microserv Patrick Nix Jr. wrote: Just curious to NAT or not to NAT, We have been operating with NATed addresses out to our customers on a 10.x.x.x private network, the trouble is more and more customers are wanting to use services that require a public IP, such as remote security camera monitoring, etc... we currently have been offering a static public IP for $30/mo in addition to subscription, but this is not so popular. Is anyone offering public IPs out to customers and how do you do so when you have more customers than IP addresses. FYI, we are using MT routers to handle DHCP and NATing. Thanks __ Patrick Nix, Jr., csweb.net (800) 638-2614 http://www.csweb.net http://www.csweb.net/ E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTENTION: This e-mail may contain information that is confidential in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
Patrick Nix Jr. wrote: So then, static or DHCP'd We use DHCP for everyone, then hard code it in the dhcp config file for those who want to get the same one each time (i.e. static IP). As long as you can track who has what and when, it doesn't really matter. You'll need to know when the feds come knockin'. Your DHCP log is your best friend. Best to keep a few months if you have space; some investigations go on for a long time. For the sake of both the innocent and the guilty it's good to have some overlap in case IP's change from one customer to the next. -- Bryan WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
PPPoE Y'know, I've never understood why many ISPs are so fond of PPPOE. The only benefits anyone has ever articulated to me are an alleged improvement in ease of tracking customer-IP associations, and your DHCP server and tower logs should take care of that for you just as easily. In the meantime, you risk annoying your customers, because they have to take special steps to set up a new computer or router, whereas with a DHCP server things will just work 90% of the time. Not meaning to troll, I'm genuinely curious. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
And to take it one step further, I've never understood using DHCP for customers. It makes it 10x easier for a rogue client to get on your network if you run DHCP instead of just static. You don't have to maintain any logs, or worry about your DHCP server having problems, etc. It seems one step easier than DHCP. Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote: PPPoE Y'know, I've never understood why many ISPs are so fond of PPPOE. The only benefits anyone has ever articulated to me are an alleged improvement in ease of tracking customer-IP associations, and your DHCP server and tower logs should take care of that for you just as easily. In the meantime, you risk annoying your customers, because they have to take special steps to set up a new computer or router, whereas with a DHCP server things will "just work" 90% of the time. Not meaning to troll, I'm genuinely curious. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
If you have ever renumbered your entire network due to changing upstream providers or running out of IP, you will wish you had used DHCP everywhere. - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema And to take it one step further, I've never understood using DHCP for customers. It makes it 10x easier for a rogue client to get on your network if you run DHCP instead of just static. You don't have to maintain any logs, or worry about your DHCP server having problems, etc. It seems one step easier than DHCP. Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote: PPPoE Y'know, I've never understood why many ISPs are so fond of PPPOE. The only benefits anyone has ever articulated to me are an alleged improvement in ease of tracking customer-IP associations, and your DHCP server and tower logs should take care of that for you just as easily. In the meantime, you risk annoying your customers, because they have to take special steps to set up a new computer or router, whereas with a DHCP server things will just work 90% of the time. Not meaning to troll, I'm genuinely curious. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
I think it's fair to say that any ISP of size has in fact done this once if not twice. It's not the end of the world unless there was little planning done beforehand. I've experienced both. grin We do not use DHCP anywhere, but within the client LAN environment. However, I don't see where running DHCP and reserving IP's for specific MAC addresses would be of much risk. The additional headache of the occasional client replacing their router (hence requiring you to update your DHCP MAC table) might be worth it in some cases. Everyone is going to have their own opinion as to what they feel is going to be the best solution for their network and their target market. Ours has been to own and manage a CPE router for every client connection. This gives us a clear demarcation point where our network ends and the client network begins. Regarding the original poster's question as to whether to assign public IP space vs. NAT'd IP space to end clients, I think the resounding opinion is to use public IP space. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2 Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema If you have ever renumbered your entire network due to changing upstream providers or running out of IP, you will wish you had used DHCP everywhere. - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema And to take it one step further, I've never understood using DHCP for customers. It makes it 10x easier for a rogue client to get on your network if you run DHCP instead of just static. You don't have to maintain any logs, or worry about your DHCP server having problems, etc. It seems one step easier than DHCP. Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote: PPPoE Y'know, I've never understood why many ISPs are so fond of PPPOE. The only benefits anyone has ever articulated to me are an alleged improvement in ease of tracking customer-IP associations, and your DHCP server and tower logs should take care of that for you just as easily. In the meantime, you risk annoying your customers, because they have to take special steps to set up a new computer or router, whereas with a DHCP server things will just work 90% of the time. Not meaning to troll, I'm genuinely curious. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
MAC/modem cloning is a real problem for cable Internet companies. Modern DOCSIS 1.1 and above cable modems have MD5 hashing the firmware with the MAC but somehow the clones get stolen MAC addresses and there are successful thieves. Perhaps it's downgrading the firmware to DOCSIS 1.0 where it is possible without the hash...I don't know how they do it. However, MAC cloning for less secure equipment in customer hands seems like an invitation to a theft of service. Any device, PC or router, can switcheroo the old MAC. . . . J o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 11:04 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema I think it's fair to say that any ISP of size has in fact done this once if not twice. It's not the end of the world unless there was little planning done beforehand. I've experienced both. grin We do not use DHCP anywhere, but within the client LAN environment. However, I don't see where running DHCP and reserving IP's for specific MAC addresses would be of much risk. The additional headache of the occasional client replacing their router (hence requiring you to update your DHCP MAC table) might be worth it in some cases. Everyone is going to have their own opinion as to what they feel is going to be the best solution for their network and their target market. Ours has been to own and manage a CPE router for every client connection. This gives us a clear demarcation point where our network ends and the client network begins. Regarding the original poster's question as to whether to assign public IP space vs. NAT'd IP space to end clients, I think the resounding opinion is to use public IP space. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2 Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema If you have ever renumbered your entire network due to changing upstream providers or running out of IP, you will wish you had used DHCP everywhere. - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema And to take it one step further, I've never understood using DHCP for customers. It makes it 10x easier for a rogue client to get on your network if you run DHCP instead of just static. You don't have to maintain any logs, or worry about your DHCP server having problems, etc. It seems one step easier than DHCP. Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote: PPPoE Y'know, I've never understood why many ISPs are so fond of PPPOE. The only benefits anyone has ever articulated to me are an alleged improvement in ease of tracking customer-IP associations, and your DHCP server and tower logs should take care of that for you just as easily. In the meantime, you risk annoying your customers, because they have to take special steps to set up a new computer or router, whereas with a DHCP server things will just work 90% of the time. Not meaning to troll, I'm genuinely curious. David Smith MVN.net -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- -- -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
Travis Johnson wrote: And to take it one step further, I've never understood using DHCP for customers. It makes it 10x easier for a rogue client to get on your network if you run DHCP instead of just static. You don't have to maintain any logs, or worry about your DHCP server having problems, etc. It seems one step easier than DHCP. We control what radios are allowed to connect to our AP's, the router built into the radio can be enabled (customer has no access to radio interface) as can MAC address masquerading, and DHCP servers can be configured to only accept or ignore specific MAC addresses, so the rogue client argument is a moot point for us. Our DHCP server has been humming along as-is for 5 years with occasional reboots for reasons unassociated with DHCP (boss shutting down circuit breaker, techs tripping on power cords, accidental reset button depression). Another non-issue. The situation we run into, in addition to what Chuck mentioned about renumbering, is adding, moving, or changing network segments, or moving customers from one segment to another without having access to the gear inside (i.e. re-aim to different tower while customer's at work). Short DHCP leases also make it harder to host services. (Those who want to though simply ask for a static IP, which we assign via DHCP to their router or computer. Statics come from different pools making other IP management tasks easier.) If everything is hard-coded, that's one more step to walk customers/installers through when installing, configuring, troubleshooting, etc. Since we don't own/maintain any CPE beyond the radio itself, DHCP is the best fit for us. -- Bryan WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
We've renumbered our entire network once, when we got our own IP space. It took us about 30 days from start to finish... that was 6 years ago. Have never had an issue since then... but we have our own /18 block now... ;) Travis Microserv Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: If you have ever renumbered your entire network due to changing upstream providers or running out of IP, you will wish you had used DHCP everywhere. - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema And to take it one step further, I've never understood using DHCP for customers. It makes it 10x easier for a rogue client to get on your network if you run DHCP instead of just static. You don't have to maintain any logs, or worry about your DHCP server having problems, etc. It seems one step easier than DHCP. Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote: PPPoE Y'know, I've never understood why many ISPs are so fond of PPPOE. The only benefits anyone has ever articulated to me are an alleged improvement in ease of tracking customer-IP associations, and your DHCP server and tower logs should take care of that for you just as easily. In the meantime, you risk annoying your customers, because they have to take special steps to set up a new computer or router, whereas with a DHCP server things will just work 90% of the time. Not meaning to troll, I'm genuinely curious. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema
There's a couple of nicely elegant options here... One is that you NAT only at your core point(s), and at that point you do a 1:1 IP translation. You can then choose who has direct IP connection and who doesn't at your core points, without any additional routing. For those who don't, you merely masq... I have chosen to use all public addressing for every device, from the CPE to backhauls, etc. But my CPE does NAT. If my customer needs a public IP, I route him a small subnet for his use. This DOES suck up a lot of IP's. My 2.4 AP's have a /27 assigned to them, and the 5 ghz have a /26 assigned wherever I expect to fully load the AP. So far, I've managed to get about 90 clients for every /24 I put in use. Perhaps not efficient, but I do have IP growth room in most places still. I expect to put around 45 clients for each 5 ghz using 20 mhz channels and 20 or so for one with 10 mhz channels and about 10 clients at most for a 5 mhz channel (900 mhz for instance). My 2.4's are definitely fully loaded at 29 clients per AP - and they run in B mode. insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Patrick Nix Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 2:19 PM Subject: [WISPA] Question concerning IP Schema Just curious to NAT or not to NAT, We have been operating with NATed addresses out to our customers on a 10.x.x.x private network, the trouble is more and more customers are wanting to use services that require a public IP, such as remote security camera monitoring, etc... we currently have been offering a static public IP for $30/mo in addition to subscription, but this is not so popular. Is anyone offering public IPs out to customers and how do you do so when you have more customers than IP addresses. FYI, we are using MT routers to handle DHCP and NATing. Thanks __ Patrick Nix, Jr., csweb.net (800) 638-2614 http://www.csweb.net http://www.csweb.net/ E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ATTENTION: This e-mail may contain information that is confidential in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
