RE: [WISPA] No, Patrick, it's not about the stickers...
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:35:37 -0800, Patrick Leary wrote > ..."But if you wish to become an advocate for this industry,..." > > LOL, but for better of for worse Mark, that happened a long time ago. > > As for the FCC protecting Alvarion's interests. Don't make me choke with > laughter. The FCC could care a less about the welfare of our company Patrick, you need to parse your reading better. I did not say that the FCC is protecting you. I said the rule structure is protecting the big guys from the small guys, and it needs to be changed. Mark Koskenmaki <> Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] No, Patrick, it's not about the stickers...
Rick Smith wrote: This could be the same path as the arguments for and against Open Source are taking these days. In the end, Open Source is winning... However, I see a "bad apples" component to Mark's argument. If the rules are to allow us to mix / match any individually certified components into a whole new component, there will be some idiots out there that will throw an amplifier or whatever else in between, just to be different That's what the FCC is scared of...junk all over the place. And that would be different from now? If an operator does not want to abide by the rules the component changes aren't going to make a difference. I don't see how the component rule would be a bad thing, if it is possible to certify radio/software/antenna sets. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless I see nothing wrong with piecing together components like Mikrotik, WRAP boards, CM9's, SRx's, etc. as long as we stay within the technical limits of the law. there are those here that will scream at me (us, and don't forget that..) for doing this, and to those I say, "go certify it!" I have an idea though. Well, a repeat idea. I'm not sure how the certification process works, but wouldn't it be interesting to get all these "open source" pieces certified by the FCC, and then put it to bed ? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] No, Patrick, it's not about the stickers...
This could be the same path as the arguments for and against Open Source are taking these days. In the end, Open Source is winning... However, I see a "bad apples" component to Mark's argument. If the rules are to allow us to mix / match any individually certified components into a whole new component, there will be some idiots out there that will throw an amplifier or whatever else in between, just to be different That's what the FCC is scared of...junk all over the place. I see nothing wrong with piecing together components like Mikrotik, WRAP boards, CM9's, SRx's, etc. as long as we stay within the technical limits of the law. there are those here that will scream at me (us, and don't forget that..) for doing this, and to those I say, "go certify it!" I have an idea though. Well, a repeat idea. I'm not sure how the certification process works, but wouldn't it be interesting to get all these "open source" pieces certified by the FCC, and then put it to bed ? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wispa Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:55 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] No, Patrick, it's not about the stickers... On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 09:32:42 -0800, Patrick Leary wrote > "Sticker conscious?" So this is what we've become as an industry? > Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated > to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now > been reduced to simply being "sticker conscious" or "not sticker conscious"? > Why not go further and call yourself "Illegal and proud" or just "I > don't give a "? Let's not have any more "gee, I can't afford to be > legal!" That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range > from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 - > - that's cheap. No, Patrick, it's NOT about the sticker. It's about the fact that I can assemble a geek squad of a few people, that, using freely available software and cheap and easily available hardware, can BUILD FOR OURSELVES better priced and 'better suited for WISP use' equipment in a few weeks than Alvarion, Motorola and Trango have managed to do in years. Not only are we better, we're faster, we advance quicker, and we do more with less, AND CAN PRODUCE IT ALL COMPLIANT WITH THE TECHNICAL LIMITS OF THE LAW, faster than any larger company can dream of doing. Why? Because we live in a free country and we have free minds. But we can't do it legally. Why? Because the rules now PREVENT us from doing it and protect the interests of Alvarion and Motorola, rather than enhance the industry. It's because the best and brightest DO NOT build systems. The best and brightest at building sofware are building software. The best and brightest at building cheap radios are doing so. And the rest of us are assembling the parts we need to do the job that NO MAKER OF CERTIFIED GEAR HAS YET TO ASPIRE to, much less produce. WE ARE CAPABLE of putting those bits together, like it or not. That's why Apple Computers based the latest iteration of their operating system on something produced mostly by amateurs and geeks and ordinary schmucksfor FREE. It was better than ANYTHING Apple could pay any number of software engineers to build on their own. Period. Thus, FreeBSD became the basis of OS X. AGain, the capability of the ordinary schmucks proved to be a giant leap ahead of the #2 choice in pc's. > > My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a > special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Well, certainly, NOT A ONE OF US ON THIS LIST wants that. But if you wish to become an advocate for this industry, THEN STOP DEMANDING WE STOP BEING CREATIVE AND ADVANCING OUR INDUSTRY AND INSTEAD BE HELD BACK BY YOUR COMPANY AND THE OTHER "manufacturers", and start helping us get a legal and regulatory environment that works, instead of one that's hopelessly broken, so we CAN. I hate to break it to you, but if today, Alvarion, Motorola, Trango, and a host of other names like them vanished from the map, the WISP business could and would go on, and we could do it purely with the talents and skills that exist with the individual operators. TURN IT LOOSE instead of attempting to bottle it up. Or is your loyalty purely to the company and not to US? > > Patrick Leary > AVP WISP Markets > Alvarion, Inc. > o: 650.314.2628 > c: 760.580.0080 > Vonage: 650.641.1243 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM > To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable > 5.8G cpe suggestions? > > RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious. > If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with > MT/CM9 setups and they work great. > > Sam Tetherow > Sandhills Wireless > > rabbtu
RE: [WISPA] No, Patrick, it's not about the stickers...
..."But if you wish to become an advocate for this industry,..." LOL, but for better of for worse Mark, that happened a long time ago. As for the FCC protecting Alvarion's interests. Don't make me choke with laughter. The FCC could care a less about the welfare of our company and that's not something they should necessarily care about. I can also say that our company to this day has never hired a lobbyist to press for anything in DC with the FCC, the FTC, the DoD, the NTIA, the USDA, or the local PTA for that matter anyone else...at that is to my everlasting frustration. Anything done on that front at Alvarion has been mostly me and me alone, and originally my efforts were entirely unsanctioned. And the best I have time to do is adhoc and insufficient. Fortunately, when it comes to standards group work (e.g. the IEEE and ETSI), they've always done the opposite and worked like unrelenting sled dogs since the mid 19990's. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wispa Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:55 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] No, Patrick, it's not about the stickers... On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 09:32:42 -0800, Patrick Leary wrote > "Sticker conscious?" So this is what we've become as an industry? > Following the very clear laws, which were once again just reiterated > to us after another in a long chain of WISP visits, or not has now been > reduced to simply being "sticker conscious" or "not sticker conscious"? > Why not go further and call yourself "Illegal and proud" or just "I > don't give a "? Let's not have any more "gee, I can't afford to > be legal!" That's not an argument that is credible today, with the range > from legal cheap to premium CPE running from about $170 to sub-$300 - > - that's cheap. No, Patrick, it's NOT about the sticker. It's about the fact that I can assemble a geek squad of a few people, that, using freely available software and cheap and easily available hardware, can BUILD FOR OURSELVES better priced and 'better suited for WISP use' equipment in a few weeks than Alvarion, Motorola and Trango have managed to do in years. Not only are we better, we're faster, we advance quicker, and we do more with less, AND CAN PRODUCE IT ALL COMPLIANT WITH THE TECHNICAL LIMITS OF THE LAW, faster than any larger company can dream of doing. Why? Because we live in a free country and we have free minds. But we can't do it legally. Why? Because the rules now PREVENT us from doing it and protect the interests of Alvarion and Motorola, rather than enhance the industry. It's because the best and brightest DO NOT build systems. The best and brightest at building sofware are building software. The best and brightest at building cheap radios are doing so. And the rest of us are assembling the parts we need to do the job that NO MAKER OF CERTIFIED GEAR HAS YET TO ASPIRE to, much less produce. WE ARE CAPABLE of putting those bits together, like it or not. That's why Apple Computers based the latest iteration of their operating system on something produced mostly by amateurs and geeks and ordinary schmucksfor FREE. It was better than ANYTHING Apple could pay any number of software engineers to build on their own. Period. Thus, FreeBSD became the basis of OS X. AGain, the capability of the ordinary schmucks proved to be a giant leap ahead of the #2 choice in pc's. > > My God, 5.4 is going to be a massive mess. OET will have to install a > special phone line just to handle the incoming DoD complaint calls. Well, certainly, NOT A ONE OF US ON THIS LIST wants that. But if you wish to become an advocate for this industry, THEN STOP DEMANDING WE STOP BEING CREATIVE AND ADVANCING OUR INDUSTRY AND INSTEAD BE HELD BACK BY YOUR COMPANY AND THE OTHER "manufacturers", and start helping us get a legal and regulatory environment that works, instead of one that's hopelessly broken, so we CAN. I hate to break it to you, but if today, Alvarion, Motorola, Trango, and a host of other names like them vanished from the map, the WISP business could and would go on, and we could do it purely with the talents and skills that exist with the individual operators. TURN IT LOOSE instead of attempting to bottle it up. Or is your loyalty purely to the company and not to US? > > Patrick Leary > AVP WISP Markets > Alvarion, Inc. > o: 650.314.2628 > c: 760.580.0080 > Vonage: 650.641.1243 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:37 PM > To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] cost effective reliable > 5.8G cpe suggestions? > > RB112+CM9+Rootenna if you are not sticker conscious. > If you are sticker conscious I use the Tranzeo TR5a-24/20 with > MT/CM
