Re: [WISPA] [Spam] Re: CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
Let's say this differently. The USF (TAX) Obligation is on the Service Provider (Telco etc), and it is a Tax on the Telco, not the Telco's customers. The Telco, can choose to recover this from it's customers or NOT AT ALL. However, the rules that have to be followed, in regards to recovery are .. Apply evenly across the customer base Cannot Recover more than Telco's USF Obligation .. Exemption from this are narrowly defined (Gov entities, and some Non Profit, i am going by memory) AND any Entity that is under obligation to contribute to USF directly (not deminimus) previously most telco's were a bit loose in letting re-sellers have their exemptions, but over the last few year they have become more stringent... they now check your 499 to make sure you are not deminimus. --- BTW, the big rub comes in, when one's status changes from de-minimus to not being de-minimus.. since FCC calculates one's USF contribution obligation in arrears, one has the pleasure of paying all the recovery fees to it's vendors, and the whole amount to FCC as well... If you go to them and say, hey you are taxing me twice/ you are making me pay this twice Their answer, we are not... we are only asking you to pay the obligation to us (the tax) once, now... what you have paid to your vendors is a 'fee', and we have nothing to do with that. you go duke that one out with your vendors Vendor's response. It's the Federal Law, everyone pays... if you fill out your exemption docs, we will not collect the recovery fee from you moving forward.. but the past is the past... And, if you go in the other direction from being not de-minimus to being de-minimusyou get screwed again.. because FCC calculates one's future USF obligations based on previous years contribution... so you have to pay.and when you file your numbers... you get to have a nice conversation with FCC They say, we don't understand how did your actual numbers drop. after you get past it... they say... OK... moving forward i.e. next year the numbers will change... if you ask, hey what about this year ?.. .Answer is .. Sorry, we don't issue refunds, and we have no way to make 'corrections' to our billing system (which no one there understands)... So you are SOL again... I think we should replace the the word CF (ClusterF***) with the acronym USF ! -- Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:21:30 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Spam] Re: CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs Regarding USF wholesaler must have evidence that the reseller customer both “(1) [incorporates] the purchased telecommunications services into its own offerings, and (2) can reasonably be expected to contribute to support universal service based on revenues from those offerings. In the past it was possible to be exempt from your upstream from charging you, by only declaring that you were a reseller, and all that you had to do to get exempted was to show that you utilized the telecommunications services in your own retail offerings. The advantage to USF, would have been the ISP would likely sell the retail service for more money than the wholesale price and therefore collect higher USF funds. However, the loop whole for the ISP was that once they were exempt with their upstream, there was not much control to verify how much USF the downstream ISP would collect or be required to collect. For example, if the reseller ISP only sold information services Internet Access, the ISP would never collect or pay USF. So, the above quoted clause did away with that loophole, by adding section (2), now making it a requirement that the wholesaler reasonably expect the reseller to pay into the USF based on revenues from those offerings. Meaning Wholesalers could make downstream ISPs prove they are paying into USF before allowing exemption. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Faisal Imtiaz To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:46 PM Subject: [Spam] Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs They all do. (i.e. try to screw the ISP/NSP/WISP) Chase down the person in-charge of their Tax Dept, and ask them for ITNA Tax Exemption Form :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net - Original Message - From: Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] [Spam] Re: CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/pdf/uscode47/lii_usc_TI_47_CH_5_SC_I_SE_151.pdf Regarding State TaxesIn support of Faisal's statements The term ‘Internet access service’ does not include telecommunications services, except to the extent such services are purchased, used, or sold by a provider of Internet access to provide Internet access. The Document further clarifies in multiple cases that telecommunications services purchased for the use to provide Internet Access are included as Internet Access. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Faisal Imtiaz To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:27 PM Subject: [Spam] Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs hmmm.. not quite accurate... Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to apply to internet access as well as communication circuits carrying internet access. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net -- From: Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is a transport and not an internet circuit. As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to Internet access. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Guys, I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill from my new upstream fiber provider. (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to also offer metro ethernet IP) Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any Taxes or USF. I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay and/or collect such fees from me. If so, I need to provide legal documentation to support my claim to my upstream. THe new fiber provider is trying to charge me The Federal USF stated was about 16.5% of monthly fiber cost. The VA Communication Tax was about 6% of monthly fiber cost. The Property Tax / Franchise/Row Recovery Fees 0.08% of monthly fiber cost. First, I thought it was federal law that Broadband can not be taxed by the State. Second, the USF amount stated was 16.5%, but in the past, when USF was applicable it was always only around 6%. Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. So questions are 1) Am I exempt as a WISP. 2) Is there a standard government form I can provide to my uptream, to document my exemption (similar to use tax resell certificate) 3) Is CAF in effect now (Broadband providers paying into USF) and if so, what is the current % rate? 4) Does it matter how my upstream classifies themselves versus how I classify myself? (for example, if they've obtained CLEC status or not, or im not a CLEC). 5) Does it matter how I use the circuit? 6) Any specific FCC code to point to, that specifies this clearly? Figured Id ask, before I go searching through regulation code. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc 301-515-7774 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] [Spam] Re: CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
State? Or Federal? I read that as USC - so it would be Federal. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 8:29 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/pdf/uscode47/lii_usc_TI_47_CH_5_SC_I_SE_151.pdf Regarding State TaxesIn support of Faisal's statements The term ‘Internet access service’ does not include telecommunications services, except to the extent such services are purchased, used, or sold by a provider of Internet access to provide Internet access. The Document further clarifies in multiple cases that telecommunications services purchased for the use to provide Internet Access are included as Internet Access. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Faisal Imtiaz To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:27 PM Subject: [Spam] Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs hmmm.. not quite accurate... Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to apply to internet access as well as communication circuits carrying internet access. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is a transport and not an internet circuit. As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to Internet access. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Guys, I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill from my new upstream fiber provider. (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to also offer metro ethernet IP) Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any Taxes or USF. I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay and/or collect such fees from me. If so, I need to provide legal documentation to support my claim to my upstream. THe new fiber provider is trying to charge me The Federal USF stated was about 16.5% of monthly fiber cost. The VA Communication Tax was about 6% of monthly fiber cost. The Property Tax / Franchise/Row Recovery Fees 0.08% of monthly fiber cost. First, I thought it was federal law that Broadband can not be taxed by the State. Second, the USF amount stated was 16.5%, but in the past, when USF was applicable it was always only around 6%. Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. So questions are 1) Am I exempt as a WISP. 2) Is there a standard government form I can provide to my uptream, to document my exemption (similar to use tax resell certificate) 3) Is CAF in effect now (Broadband providers paying into USF) and if so, what is the current % rate? 4) Does it matter how my upstream classifies themselves versus how I classify myself? (for example, if they've obtained CLEC status or not, or im not a CLEC). 5) Does it matter how I use the circuit? 6) Any specific FCC code to point to, that specifies this clearly? Figured Id ask, before I go searching through regulation code. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc 301-515-7774 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] [Spam] Re: CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs
Regarding USF wholesaler must have evidence that the reseller customer both “(1) [incorporates] the purchased telecommunications services into its own offerings, and (2) can reasonably be expected to contribute to support universal service based on revenues from those offerings. In the past it was possible to be exempt from your upstream from charging you, by only declaring that you were a reseller, and all that you had to do to get exempted was to show that you utilized the telecommunications services in your own retail offerings. The advantage to USF, would have been the ISP would likely sell the retail service for more money than the wholesale price and therefore collect higher USF funds. However, the loop whole for the ISP was that once they were exempt with their upstream, there was not much control to verify how much USF the downstream ISP would collect or be required to collect. For example, if the reseller ISP only sold information services Internet Access, the ISP would never collect or pay USF. So, the above quoted clause did away with that loophole, by adding section (2), now making it a requirement that the wholesaler reasonably expect the reseller to pay into the USF based on revenues from those offerings. Meaning Wholesalers could make downstream ISPs prove they are paying into USF before allowing exemption. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Faisal Imtiaz To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:46 PM Subject: [Spam] Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs They all do. (i.e. try to screw the ISP/NSP/WISP) Chase down the person in-charge of their Tax Dept, and ask them for ITNA Tax Exemption Form :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net -- From: Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:44:33 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs Oh really? Comcast wants to charge me 16% USF on a point to point to carry Internet traffic. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappytelecom.net wrote: hmmm.. not quite accurate... Internet Freedom Act was updated to allow for taxes not to apply to internet access as well as communication circuits carrying internet access. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net -- From: Matt Hoppes mhop...@indigowireless.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:12:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] CAF-USF-StateTax for WISPs I believe the reason you are being taxed is because this is a transport and not an internet circuit. As far as I know the internet freedom act only applies to Internet access. Sent from my iPad On Apr 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Guys, I've been out of the loop for a couple years, regarding current status of CAF/USF/Tax requirements for WISPs. I was surprised when I recieved my first bill from my new upstream fiber provider. (they are a dark fiber provider, recently expanded to also offer metro ethernet IP) Note: I do NOT buy IP Transit from this provider, nor Last mile Fiber. I am just buying a Point-to-Point Fiber Transport data link. So I consider this a wholesale component or infrastructure component, not an End User Internet circuit. In the past, my Fiber providers never charged me any Taxes or USF. I was under the impression that as a WISP (Im not a CLEC) providing Broadband only services, I didnt need to collect or pay into USF, CAF, or State Taxes. And further, my Upstream should be exempt from having to pay and/or collect such fees from me. If so, I need to provide legal documentation to support my claim to my upstream. THe new fiber provider is trying to charge me The Federal USF stated was about 16.5% of monthly fiber cost. The VA Communication Tax was about 6% of monthly fiber cost. The Property Tax / Franchise/Row Recovery Fees 0.08% of monthly fiber cost. First, I thought it was federal law that Broadband can not be taxed by the State. Second, the USF amount stated was 16.5%, but in the past, when USF was applicable it was always only
