Re: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding /Financing / Capital Availability
Melissa does work at an accounting firm. She's not the CPA but she does most of the paperwork etc. And, naturally we work very closely with the CPAs at the firm. We've looked at the money differences between sole proprietor and corp. There really isn't much difference if you stay honest with things. At least not at the low levels we're at. When we start making more money (in the next couple of years as things are sitting now) we'll likely be better off as a corp. Because the current business doesn't actually own anything we'll be able to easily set things up so that the corp rents things from us. The office, vehicles etc. In that way we can personally take some of the income while the corp writes it off. The way you juggle things to keep taxes down is to work the tax brackets. Right now we're able to stay in a pretty low one. But I'm running out of places and ways to expand so that's going to change. We'll pay less taxes when we have two smaller entities in smaller brackets. At least that's the way I understand it now One of the really great things about a sole proprietorship is asset management. We can take old computers home all day and it's no big deal. Just move it. If it's something owned by the corp we have to somehow transfer that product. More paperwork etc. Another thing a person has to be very careful with is who owns what. Mom and Dad own a large farm. Thousands and thousands of acres, mostly irrigated. Back when their corp got formed all of the assets were put into the corp. Now that they want to sell the farm they have to somehow make nearly twice as much because they'll be double taxed at the time of the sale. There will be income tax at the corp level AND capital gains at the personal level. Or some such similar mess. Basically when they sell 50% or so will to go taxes. Unless they can sell the corp it's self which is something no one wants to buy. People only want the assets, otherwise they end up with the same long term tax mess. It's also nearly impossible to gift enough assets back to themselves or their kids to make a difference. Both sole owner and corp have their places. The choices are not REALLY as simple as some people try to make them out. And how they get structured over the long run is very important yet almost no one ever goes to a lawyer that specializes in such things for advice on the best type of corp to form and how to run it from day one. Many things get done just because that's they way it is, even if there is a better way.. I still look at my avoidance of routing cpe. The reasons I liked bridging cpe have proven to be very true (radios are inflexible crappy routers) but the benefits have been wonderful anyway. It's something I wish I'd have listened to others on years and years ago. Human nature I guess. I am listening to the experts on tax matters though. grin marlon - Original Message - From: "George Rogato" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 2:38 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding /Financing / Capital Availability > Unless you actually make a decent salary. > When your a sole proprietor you have to pay the self employment tax. > Self employment tax is matching social security payments. > You pay both the individual ss tax and as well as the employers > contribution which comes to about double. > > If you were incorporated and you were an employee, which you would be, > you could collect half your pay in salary and the other half in > dividends, or 1/4 in salary and 3/4 in dividends (which yields a deeper > tax break) > > Dividends are not subject to the 2nd half of the contributing tax or the > self employment tax, never mind workers comp, state unemployment, etc. > > For those that rant and rave against the big bad government and their > unreasonable taxes (count me in), then it's foolish to voluntarily pay > what is not required of you. > > But to all those that do go ahead and pay the extra not required ss tax, > My family and all the rest of those who will someday collect ss in our > golden years thank you for being so generous as paying this extra > voluntary tax to help insure the solvency of ss so it will be there when > we retire as well as give the government even more money to borrow > against so they can spend even more tax dollars that really aren't there. > > Also, if you have a good cpa, they tell you this stuff when they do your > income taxes. > > a cpa is not a tax preparer or a book keeper. > > > > > > > > RickG wrote: >> Makes sense to me...thanks! -RickG >> >> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafer >> wrote: &g
Re: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding/Financing / Capital Availability
Wow... there is a lot of speculation going on here regarding the best choice of legal entity for organization of a business. The answer is: there is no simple answer. I owned an ISP and now I'm a lawyer. During law school I concentrated a fair amount of my coursework on business planning and business organizations. There was one underlying rule that we were told always to follow: "LIMIT THE LIABILITY OF THE INDIVIDUAL" That being said, does that mean that you want to create a C-Corporation or an S-Corporation? Not necessarily. There are many forms of business that limit the liability of the owners/investors. For instance: you can choose from C-Corps, S-Corps, Limited Liability Company, Limited Liability Partnership, Limited Partnership, and Limited Liability Limited Partnership. Each of these forms has certain liability advantages and certain tax advantages. Some of these forms are available in all states and some are restricted in use and only available in certain states. Additionally, there can be certain advantages to being incorporated under one state's laws versus being incorporated under your home state's laws. The two forms of business organization that make little if any sense for any business in this day and age are: the general partnership and the sole proprietorship. Take this simple example as to WHY you need to not be a general partnership or sole proprietorship: Hypothetical Scenario: You own a Wireless ISP business. You are the sole owner. You are set up as a sole proprietorship. You have one employee who sits at the desk all day long and answers sales calls and does technical support. You do all of the outside work and you always have happy customers. One day you leave from the shop and drive five miles to a customer's site. You are in the middle of installing a tripod on the customer's roof and you realize that you've forgotten your last tube of roofing caulk back at the office. You call your trusty employee and ask them to drive and bring you the tube of caulk. Your employee gets in his personal car and starts to drive out to the site. On the way out, he is negligent and crashes into another car killing the driver and causing permanent injuries to the passenger. You have no insurance on your employees' car and he carries the state minimum in liability insurance. The driver's family sues your employee, your company, your company's insurance and YOU PERSONALLY. The case goes to JURY TRIAL. Your insurance company quickly gets out of the lawsuit because your employee was listed as a desk worker and was outside of the scope of the coverage. The Jury finds that your employee, your company and you personally are liable joint & severally for $2,000,000 for the wrongful death of the driver and $1,000,000 for the loss of consortium for the family and $2,000,000 for the hedonic damages for the loss of enjoyment of life for the passenger that was permanently disabled and $2,000,000 for life time medical care of the passenger and $500,000 for future lost wages of the passenger. So, you are in for $7.5MM because your employee crashed his car on the way to drop off a $2.00 tube of caulk!! Now... how would this differ if you were for example a limited liability company (assuming that you followed the organization formalities to make the company a proper legal entity)? The court would still find all the same liability BUT you as an individual owner would not be liable for the negligence of your employee. That means that it is likely that the crash would still bankrupt your company. However, you as an individual could keep your car, your house, your personal investments, cash, stock, pension, etc. and you could avoid a personal bankruptcy. So. this may seem extreme and unlikely, but you need to consider whether it is worth an investment of $1000 or $2000 to shield yourself from the unlimited liability that you face as a general partner or sole proprietor. Regards, Larry Yunker larry.yun...@wispadvantage.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding /Financing / Capital Availability
Except you have a financial person giving legal advise. No competent lawyer is going to agree. It is a simple fact that a corporation provides the highest liability protection for an individual of the available business structures. -Matt On Jun 3, 2009, at 12:09 AM, RickG wrote: > Makes sense to me...thanks! -RickG > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafer > wrote: >> Let me get my accountant wife to answer that one. Here's Melissa >> >> Well, for us it's not yet in our best interest to incorporate. >> Sometimes >> the reason for incorporating is to help insulate the individual >> from a >> lawsuit - but usually if the corp is sued, they also sue the owner >> of the >> corp. I agree with you about the S-Corp - the income from an S- >> Corp is >> picked up on your personal return so there aren't usually as many >> advantages >> when doing tax planning. We have not incorporated because the cost >> of being >> a corp (accounting, legal, another set of books, more time on >> Melissa's part >> to work on the books...) is greater to us right now than the >> benefits. I >> see it as something that we will probably need to do in the future >> as our >> income increases and we need to do more tax planning. Hope that >> helps. >> Melissa >> >> There ya have it! >> marlon >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "RickG" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 12:02 PM >> Subject: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding >> /Financing / Capital Availability >> >> >> Ha! Another interesting topic! In the past, when doing business for >> myself, I legally filed as a sole-proprietor. When I got into the >> WISP >> business, for a multitude of reasons, I became an "S-Corp". After >> filing my taxes, it seems to be much simpler and possibly more >> advantageous to just be a sole-proprietor. But that goes against all >> advise I receive. >> Marlon, I'm actually surprised that you are a sole-proprietor. What >> benefits have you found by remaining so? >> -RickG >> >> On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Marlon K. Schafer >> wrote: >>> One more thing. I don't agree with your definitions per se'. >>> >>> We all have businesses. A proprietorship is a TYPE of business. We >>> are a >>> proprietorship because I'm not incorporated (incorporating is over >>> rated >>> and >>> expensive to do right). I'm still a business though >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_proprietorship >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset >>> >>> marlon >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "Charles Wu" >>> To: "WISPA General List" >>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:03 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital >>> Availability >>> >>> Hi Marlon, I think it's appropriate to make a few definitions and distinctions on things so everyone is on the same page Specifically, for purposes of making my point, I define Proprietorship: A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood or profit Business: A unique system of processes and procedures that documents and codifies a specific method of proprietorship Asset: cash, inventory, equipment, infrastructure, customer contracts, brand, marketing, etc > Grin. Sure it is. That's what a LOT of small business people do. > It's > also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc > Sometimes it > sucks, Now, everything you stated above is just a method of proprietorship, and in most cases, from a sale perspective, a proprietorships isn't worth anything more than the depreciated value of its assets Say you were buying out the local plumber's office -- what would he have of value? His truck? Some old tools? A customer list / brand perhaps (but the reality of things is that customers do business with him because of him, and if you bought him out and he moved out of town, those customers would probably go back to being on the open market) Now, in comparing the WISP 'proprietorship' vs. the plumber, it's worth noting that the WISP is somewhat unique in that it results in the creation of an independent asset that holds onto a lot of value (e.g., the recurring revenue and everything that goes to support it); in many ways, this is akin to real-estate > Not > everyone out there even wants to get that big (if I had a nickle > for > every > business owner that's told me the most fun they had and the most > money > they > made was when it was just them, no employees..) But then > again, > that's > one of the really cool things about this buisness, it's big > enough and > flexible enough to a
Re: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding /Financing / Capital Availability
Unless you actually make a decent salary. When your a sole proprietor you have to pay the self employment tax. Self employment tax is matching social security payments. You pay both the individual ss tax and as well as the employers contribution which comes to about double. If you were incorporated and you were an employee, which you would be, you could collect half your pay in salary and the other half in dividends, or 1/4 in salary and 3/4 in dividends (which yields a deeper tax break) Dividends are not subject to the 2nd half of the contributing tax or the self employment tax, never mind workers comp, state unemployment, etc. For those that rant and rave against the big bad government and their unreasonable taxes (count me in), then it's foolish to voluntarily pay what is not required of you. But to all those that do go ahead and pay the extra not required ss tax, My family and all the rest of those who will someday collect ss in our golden years thank you for being so generous as paying this extra voluntary tax to help insure the solvency of ss so it will be there when we retire as well as give the government even more money to borrow against so they can spend even more tax dollars that really aren't there. Also, if you have a good cpa, they tell you this stuff when they do your income taxes. a cpa is not a tax preparer or a book keeper. RickG wrote: > Makes sense to me...thanks! -RickG > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafer > wrote: >> Let me get my accountant wife to answer that one. Here's Melissa >> >> Well, for us it's not yet in our best interest to incorporate. Sometimes >> the reason for incorporating is to help insulate the individual from a >> lawsuit - but usually if the corp is sued, they also sue the owner of the >> corp. I agree with you about the S-Corp - the income from an S-Corp is >> picked up on your personal return so there aren't usually as many advantages >> when doing tax planning. We have not incorporated because the cost of being >> a corp (accounting, legal, another set of books, more time on Melissa's part >> to work on the books...) is greater to us right now than the benefits. I >> see it as something that we will probably need to do in the future as our >> income increases and we need to do more tax planning. Hope that helps. >> Melissa >> >> There ya have it! >> marlon >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "RickG" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 12:02 PM >> Subject: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding >> /Financing / Capital Availability >> >> >> Ha! Another interesting topic! In the past, when doing business for >> myself, I legally filed as a sole-proprietor. When I got into the WISP >> business, for a multitude of reasons, I became an "S-Corp". After >> filing my taxes, it seems to be much simpler and possibly more >> advantageous to just be a sole-proprietor. But that goes against all >> advise I receive. >> Marlon, I'm actually surprised that you are a sole-proprietor. What >> benefits have you found by remaining so? >> -RickG >> >> On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Marlon K. Schafer >> wrote: >>> One more thing. I don't agree with your definitions per se'. >>> >>> We all have businesses. A proprietorship is a TYPE of business. We are a >>> proprietorship because I'm not incorporated (incorporating is over rated >>> and >>> expensive to do right). I'm still a business though >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_proprietorship >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset >>> >>> marlon >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "Charles Wu" >>> To: "WISPA General List" >>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:03 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital >>> Availability >>> >>> Hi Marlon, I think it's appropriate to make a few definitions and distinctions on things so everyone is on the same page Specifically, for purposes of making my point, I define Proprietorship: A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood or profit Business: A unique system of processes and procedures that documents and codifies a specific method of proprietorship Asset: cash, inventory, equipment, infrastructure, customer contracts, brand, marketing, etc > Grin. Sure it is. That's what a LOT of small business people do. It's > also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc Sometimes it > sucks, Now, everything you stated above is just a method of proprietorship, and in most cases, from a sale perspective, a proprietorships isn't worth anything more than the depreciated value of its assets Say you were buying out the local plumber's office -- what would he have of value? His truck? Some old tools? A customer list / brand perhaps (but the reality of th
Re: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding /Financing / Capital Availability
Makes sense to me...thanks! -RickG On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > Let me get my accountant wife to answer that one. Here's Melissa > > Well, for us it's not yet in our best interest to incorporate. Sometimes > the reason for incorporating is to help insulate the individual from a > lawsuit - but usually if the corp is sued, they also sue the owner of the > corp. I agree with you about the S-Corp - the income from an S-Corp is > picked up on your personal return so there aren't usually as many advantages > when doing tax planning. We have not incorporated because the cost of being > a corp (accounting, legal, another set of books, more time on Melissa's part > to work on the books...) is greater to us right now than the benefits. I > see it as something that we will probably need to do in the future as our > income increases and we need to do more tax planning. Hope that helps. > Melissa > > There ya have it! > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "RickG" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 12:02 PM > Subject: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding > /Financing / Capital Availability > > > Ha! Another interesting topic! In the past, when doing business for > myself, I legally filed as a sole-proprietor. When I got into the WISP > business, for a multitude of reasons, I became an "S-Corp". After > filing my taxes, it seems to be much simpler and possibly more > advantageous to just be a sole-proprietor. But that goes against all > advise I receive. > Marlon, I'm actually surprised that you are a sole-proprietor. What > benefits have you found by remaining so? > -RickG > > On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Marlon K. Schafer > wrote: >> One more thing. I don't agree with your definitions per se'. >> >> We all have businesses. A proprietorship is a TYPE of business. We are a >> proprietorship because I'm not incorporated (incorporating is over rated >> and >> expensive to do right). I'm still a business though >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_proprietorship >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset >> >> marlon >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Charles Wu" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital >> Availability >> >> >>> Hi Marlon, >>> >>> I think it's appropriate to make a few definitions and distinctions on >>> things so everyone is on the same page >>> >>> Specifically, for purposes of making my point, I define >>> >>> Proprietorship: A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood >>> or profit >>> >>> Business: A unique system of processes and procedures that documents and >>> codifies a specific method of proprietorship >>> >>> Asset: cash, inventory, equipment, infrastructure, customer contracts, >>> brand, marketing, etc >>> Grin. Sure it is. That's what a LOT of small business people do. It's also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc Sometimes it sucks, >>> >>> Now, everything you stated above is just a method of proprietorship, and >>> in most cases, from a sale perspective, a proprietorships isn't worth >>> anything more than the depreciated value of its assets >>> >>> Say you were buying out the local plumber's office -- what would he have >>> of value? His truck? Some old tools? A customer list / brand perhaps >>> (but the reality of things is that customers do business with him because >>> of him, and if you bought him out and he moved out of town, those >>> customers would probably go back to being on the open market) >>> >>> Now, in comparing the WISP 'proprietorship' vs. the plumber, it's worth >>> noting that the WISP is somewhat unique in that it results in the >>> creation >>> of an independent asset that holds onto a lot of value (e.g., the >>> recurring revenue and everything that goes to support it); in many ways, >>> this is akin to real-estate >>> Not everyone out there even wants to get that big (if I had a nickle for every business owner that's told me the most fun they had and the most money they made was when it was just them, no employees..) But then again, that's one of the really cool things about this buisness, it's big enough and flexible enough to allow many different business models and operator dreams to bear fuit! >>> >>> True...and you have the added benefit of building an asset that has value >>> (be happy we're not plumbers =) >>> >>> -Charles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>>
Re: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding /Financing / Capital Availability
Let me get my accountant wife to answer that one. Here's Melissa Well, for us it's not yet in our best interest to incorporate. Sometimes the reason for incorporating is to help insulate the individual from a lawsuit - but usually if the corp is sued, they also sue the owner of the corp. I agree with you about the S-Corp - the income from an S-Corp is picked up on your personal return so there aren't usually as many advantages when doing tax planning. We have not incorporated because the cost of being a corp (accounting, legal, another set of books, more time on Melissa's part to work on the books...) is greater to us right now than the benefits. I see it as something that we will probably need to do in the future as our income increases and we need to do more tax planning. Hope that helps. Melissa There ya have it! marlon - Original Message - From: "RickG" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 12:02 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding /Financing / Capital Availability Ha! Another interesting topic! In the past, when doing business for myself, I legally filed as a sole-proprietor. When I got into the WISP business, for a multitude of reasons, I became an "S-Corp". After filing my taxes, it seems to be much simpler and possibly more advantageous to just be a sole-proprietor. But that goes against all advise I receive. Marlon, I'm actually surprised that you are a sole-proprietor. What benefits have you found by remaining so? -RickG On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > One more thing. I don't agree with your definitions per se'. > > We all have businesses. A proprietorship is a TYPE of business. We are a > proprietorship because I'm not incorporated (incorporating is over rated > and > expensive to do right). I'm still a business though > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_proprietorship > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset > > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "Charles Wu" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:03 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital > Availability > > >> Hi Marlon, >> >> I think it's appropriate to make a few definitions and distinctions on >> things so everyone is on the same page >> >> Specifically, for purposes of making my point, I define >> >> Proprietorship: A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood >> or profit >> >> Business: A unique system of processes and procedures that documents and >> codifies a specific method of proprietorship >> >> Asset: cash, inventory, equipment, infrastructure, customer contracts, >> brand, marketing, etc >> >>>Grin. Sure it is. That's what a LOT of small business people do. It's >>>also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc Sometimes it >>>sucks, >> >> Now, everything you stated above is just a method of proprietorship, and >> in most cases, from a sale perspective, a proprietorships isn't worth >> anything more than the depreciated value of its assets >> >> Say you were buying out the local plumber's office -- what would he have >> of value? His truck? Some old tools? A customer list / brand perhaps >> (but the reality of things is that customers do business with him because >> of him, and if you bought him out and he moved out of town, those >> customers would probably go back to being on the open market) >> >> Now, in comparing the WISP 'proprietorship' vs. the plumber, it's worth >> noting that the WISP is somewhat unique in that it results in the >> creation >> of an independent asset that holds onto a lot of value (e.g., the >> recurring revenue and everything that goes to support it); in many ways, >> this is akin to real-estate >> >>>Not >>>everyone out there even wants to get that big (if I had a nickle for >>>every >>>business owner that's told me the most fun they had and the most money >>>they >>>made was when it was just them, no employees..) But then again, >>>that's >>>one of the really cool things about this buisness, it's big enough and >>>flexible enough to allow many different business models and operator >>>dreams >>>to bear fuit! >> >> True...and you have the added benefit of building an asset that has value >> (be happy we're not plumbers =) >> >> -Charles >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > --
Re: [WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
We are an LLC. However, I don't think we could be a sole-proprietor with two people, so we moved it to an LLC. This way our personal assets are protected and we take distributions when we need them for our salary. I have heard that an S-Corp is much more difficult in terms of taxes. Martha Huizenga DC Access, LLC 202-546-5898 */Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet!/**/ Connecting the Capitol Hill Community /* RickG wrote: > Ha! Another interesting topic! In the past, when doing business for > myself, I legally filed as a sole-proprietor. When I got into the WISP > business, for a multitude of reasons, I became an "S-Corp". After > filing my taxes, it seems to be much simpler and possibly more > advantageous to just be a sole-proprietor. But that goes against all > advise I receive. > Marlon, I'm actually surprised that you are a sole-proprietor. What > benefits have you found by remaining so? > -RickG > > On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Marlon K. Schafer > wrote: > >> One more thing. I don't agree with your definitions per se'. >> >> We all have businesses. A proprietorship is a TYPE of business. We are a >> proprietorship because I'm not incorporated (incorporating is over rated and >> expensive to do right). I'm still a business though >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_proprietorship >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset >> >> marlon >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Charles Wu" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability >> >> >> >>> Hi Marlon, >>> >>> I think it's appropriate to make a few definitions and distinctions on >>> things so everyone is on the same page >>> >>> Specifically, for purposes of making my point, I define >>> >>> Proprietorship: A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood >>> or profit >>> >>> Business: A unique system of processes and procedures that documents and >>> codifies a specific method of proprietorship >>> >>> Asset: cash, inventory, equipment, infrastructure, customer contracts, >>> brand, marketing, etc >>> >>> Grin. Sure it is. That's what a LOT of small business people do. It's also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc Sometimes it sucks, >>> Now, everything you stated above is just a method of proprietorship, and >>> in most cases, from a sale perspective, a proprietorships isn't worth >>> anything more than the depreciated value of its assets >>> >>> Say you were buying out the local plumber's office -- what would he have >>> of value? His truck? Some old tools? A customer list / brand perhaps >>> (but the reality of things is that customers do business with him because >>> of him, and if you bought him out and he moved out of town, those >>> customers would probably go back to being on the open market) >>> >>> Now, in comparing the WISP 'proprietorship' vs. the plumber, it's worth >>> noting that the WISP is somewhat unique in that it results in the creation >>> of an independent asset that holds onto a lot of value (e.g., the >>> recurring revenue and everything that goes to support it); in many ways, >>> this is akin to real-estate >>> >>> Not everyone out there even wants to get that big (if I had a nickle for every business owner that's told me the most fun they had and the most money they made was when it was just them, no employees..) But then again, that's one of the really cool things about this buisness, it's big enough and flexible enough to allow many different business models and operator dreams to bear fuit! >>> True...and you have the added benefit of building an asset that has value >>> (be happy we're not plumbers =) >>> >>> -Charles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ >
