Re: [WISPA] RE: Are you for sale?

2007-05-10 Thread Peter R.

Michael Erskine (804) 436-9428 wrote:


LOL.  I see I ruffled a few feathers.  Of course that works both ways.


You kind of like that.



I guess you didn't actually read the FAQ or you would understand how 
it was actually realized.  The last markup on the WISPA FAQ was done 
by the FBIs CALEA attorney.


Yes. I did. The version out at http://www.wispa.org/?page_id=22 is dated 
March 27. And no where in there does it say anything about written by 
the FBI. It says reviewed by numerous people.




Don't you suppose if we had any worries at this point that we would be 
in here telling you the sky was falling ourselves?  


Perhaps it is the carefree, don't worry about compliance attitude that 
makes me think that the grasp you have on the subject differs from the 
grasp other folks I have talked to (at the DOJ, at the FCC, with TTP's) 
have.


At least the TTP's will tell you that it's an experiment. We don't know 
for sure it will work. There are many working parts and no one covers 
all of them. The only one with a tested product is Solera who has 
real-world experience doing this at the Winter Olympics alongside the 
Feds. And even their box is just DPI. That's only 1/3 of the solution.  
(Plans  Process being another third; filtering and transfer to the LEA 
per the court order the final third).


And people want a solution. You say it would be $200, but you don't say 
how, why, what. Read the FAQ. Read the FAQ. It's easy.


I am still getting calls from people who are just finding out; have not 
filed any forms yet; and have no idea how to be compliant.  Am I selling 
a solution? No. In fact, I have spent hours researching CALEA so ISPs' 
that I deal with can be compliant and rest easy.


It is unlikely that a business only ISP will see a warrant, since most 
criminals sit at home. So Resi based WISP's will LIKELY see a warrant, 
because local, county and state police will have a new tool next week. 
(This from the DOJ, btw). And what is the majority of this list? Resi.  
So who will likely see a warrant? List members.


You try to get people to pay attention and follow the rules and move the 
industry forward and it's nothing but arguing, name calling, and other 
bull shit.


Good luck!

Regards,

Peter Radizeski
RAD-INFO, Inc. 



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RE: [WISPA] RE: Are you for sale? THREAD CLOSED

2007-05-10 Thread Rick Harnish
This thread is closed!  There is absolutely no reason to continue this
bashing and bereavement on list.  I'm not going to put up with this
continued bickering match.  Take it off-list.

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482
Founding Member of WISPA

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter R.
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 10:21 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] RE: Are you for sale?

Michael Erskine (804) 436-9428 wrote:

 LOL.  I see I ruffled a few feathers.  Of course that works both ways.

You kind of like that.


 I guess you didn't actually read the FAQ or you would understand how 
 it was actually realized.  The last markup on the WISPA FAQ was done 
 by the FBIs CALEA attorney.

Yes. I did. The version out at http://www.wispa.org/?page_id=22 is dated 
March 27. And no where in there does it say anything about written by 
the FBI. It says reviewed by numerous people.


 Don't you suppose if we had any worries at this point that we would be 
 in here telling you the sky was falling ourselves?  

Perhaps it is the carefree, don't worry about compliance attitude that 
makes me think that the grasp you have on the subject differs from the 
grasp other folks I have talked to (at the DOJ, at the FCC, with TTP's) 
have.

At least the TTP's will tell you that it's an experiment. We don't know 
for sure it will work. There are many working parts and no one covers 
all of them. The only one with a tested product is Solera who has 
real-world experience doing this at the Winter Olympics alongside the 
Feds. And even their box is just DPI. That's only 1/3 of the solution.  
(Plans  Process being another third; filtering and transfer to the LEA 
per the court order the final third).

And people want a solution. You say it would be $200, but you don't say 
how, why, what. Read the FAQ. Read the FAQ. It's easy.

I am still getting calls from people who are just finding out; have not 
filed any forms yet; and have no idea how to be compliant.  Am I selling 
a solution? No. In fact, I have spent hours researching CALEA so ISPs' 
that I deal with can be compliant and rest easy.

It is unlikely that a business only ISP will see a warrant, since most 
criminals sit at home. So Resi based WISP's will LIKELY see a warrant, 
because local, county and state police will have a new tool next week. 
(This from the DOJ, btw). And what is the majority of this list? Resi.  
So who will likely see a warrant? List members.

You try to get people to pay attention and follow the rules and move the 
industry forward and it's nothing but arguing, name calling, and other 
bull shit.

Good luck!

Regards,

Peter Radizeski
RAD-INFO, Inc. 


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RE: [WISPA] RE: Are you for sale?

2007-05-09 Thread Jack Weinberg
Bravo Michael. 


Ezlinx.net, Inc.
Jack Weinberg
69 Public Square, 14th Floor
Wilkes-Barre, PA 18701
 
ph: 1-866-439-5469
  1-570-823-9804
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Erskine
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:08 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] RE: Are you for sale?

Matt;

This is going to be a bit rough but I feel the need to call a this as I see
it.  You are running roughshod on a lot of people with your fear mongering
and it needs to be called into the open.  So...

   In discussions with others it has come to my attention that several  
 companies are looking to exit the business for various reasons not   
the least of which is CALEA. If you're serious about exploring an   
exit, contact me offlist. I am interested in a variety of optionsfrom
taking a controlling interest to an outright cash buyout.
  
   I don't want to sound like a vulture, but ...

... but you most certainly do sound like a vulture ...

What makes you such an authority on CALEA, Matt?  What qualifications or
experience with CALEA do you bring to the table that give credence to the
fear that you are mongering on this list?  Purchasing compliance does not
constitute authoritative knowledge.

Most ISPs will be able to satisfy the CALEA requirements for less than
$200.00.  Yep, that is what I said.  When the WISPA Standard gets blessed,
and I did say when, there will be an open source implementation.  It will
provide safe harbor and it will run on low end hardware.  Having had the
personal experience of working with the LEAs a number of times since about
1990 I feel perfectly comfortable in expressing my dismay at the egregious
misinformation and negative speculation you have posted on this list.  CALEA
compliance is only going to be a problem for those WISPs who refuse to do
due diligence in coming to compliance.

Honestly Matt, what you have demonstrated on this list is that you have a
talent for fear mongering and then exploiting the poor gullible people who
bought into that fear mongering.

Mind you that is only my opinion, but I am keeping it.  I strongly encourage
anyone who is currently in fear of CALEA to just go reread the FAQ.  Read it
critically, ensure that you have filed your documents thru Kris to the FBI.
Then relax.  The FBI is working very well with the committee.  Progress is
being made very quickly on a tough problem. 
Just relax people.  Don't make a stupid mistake based upon pure horse hockey
and spin which only serves to benefit those who would exploit your fear.  If
you want to sell, don't let CALEA compliance be any part of your decision.




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Re: [WISPA] RE: Are you for sale?

2007-05-09 Thread Matt Liotta

Michael Erskine wrote:
What makes you such an authority on CALEA, Matt?  What qualifications 
or experience with CALEA do you bring to the table that give credence 
to the fear that you are mongering on this list?  Purchasing 
compliance does not constitute authoritative knowledge.


For one, we are actually CALEA compliant. Getting there required 
understanding the requirements, speaking with our attorney, and working 
with our vendors. We did this months ago as a necessary and timely thing 
to knock out. Since that time we have watched people who aren't 
compliant act as authorities on the subject. So back at you... What 
qualifications or experience with CALEA do you bring to the table? BTW, 
working experience with LEAs doesn't mean much since CALEA as it is 
being applied to ISPs is entirely new and no one has experience with it.
Most ISPs will be able to satisfy the CALEA requirements for less than 
$200.00.  Yep, that is what I said.  When the WISPA Standard gets 
blessed, and I did say when, there will be an open source 
implementation.  It will provide safe harbor and it will run on low 
end hardware.  Having had the personal experience of working with the 
LEAs a number of times since about 1990 I feel perfectly comfortable 
in expressing my dismay at the egregious misinformation and negative 
speculation you have posted on this list.  CALEA compliance is only 
going to be a problem for those WISPs who refuse to do due diligence 
in coming to compliance.


Today is May 9th and your discussing a standard that doesn't exist and 
hasn't be approved. What happens to all the ISPs waiting on WISPAs 
standard come Monday? Should they just be non-compliant and wait for 
your solution? Further, while you are dismayed why don't you point out 
what misinformation and negative speculation I have posted.
Honestly Matt, what you have demonstrated on this list is that you 
have a talent for fear mongering and then exploiting the poor gullible 
people who bought into that fear mongering.



Exactly how?

-Matt

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Re: [WISPA] RE: Are you for sale?

2007-05-09 Thread Peter R.

Mike,

Somehow, after speaking with 5 of the Mediation companies, including the 
only one to date that has actually done monitoring with the FBI, I don't 
think $200 will be a solution.


The problem is that most people get their (dis)information from lists 
from people like me, Matt, and Marlon - all third hand (in court they 
call this hearsay).  Yet no one wants to speak with a lawyer about 
this... it surprises me. Then I remember that this is the ISP industry, 
known for burying its head in the sand and using the H.O.P.E. strategy.


Mike, I tried to check the references for the people who wrote the FAQ. 
Uh. You guys have no more experience than Matt or me or Marlon.


I have spoken with the DOJ and the FCC. You say they give Guidance. I 
say that they will vaguely answer your questions and tell you to re-read 
the CALEA Order and CFR.


The problem is not the data capture for broadband. That is the Easy 
part. It is the chain of evidence piece.
The securing the data. The transparency to the perp and your staff. The 
transferring the data cleanly to the LEA.


File your compliance plan, because that is where they will get you.
Then if ever given a court order, follow the plan to the letter.

Even the TTP only does so much. And is not liable. This isn't one of 
those issues you can scan and worry about later, unless you have worked 
with LEA (like Matt) or have 100% business clients. Because let's face 
it, most subpoenas are going to be for someone's home. It would be a 
rare instance when someone would be sitting at the office downloading 
child porn or planning a crime.


Is there FUD? Sure. Why? Mainly because no one wants to take the time to 
do their own Due Diligence or talk to an Authority. They want the Cliff 
Notes from the list. No such thing in this case.


Are there WISP's for sale? Oh yeah. Before the CALEA thing. But a couple 
I have spoken with want out now more than before. So is it a good time 
to buy? Sure. Is Matt a vulture? He comes off a little brusque, but if 
people want to execute an exit strategy, he is offering a path.


Hey. Who's to say that your $200 CALEA plan won't result in millions in 
fines? Can you guarantee that, Mike? I doubt it. Can Open CALEA with all 
the resources of Merit Networks? Nope. Can any of the TTP's? Maybe 
Verisign or Neustar.


So file your plan. It's due before Monday (5 copies).

Go to a meeting and talk with a CALEA expert or Attorney. Stop getting 
legal advice from amateurs like us.


If there is enough interest, I can get Chris Savage's law firm to do 
another QA tele-seminar or maybe Kris Twomey will do one.


Regards,

Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc.


Michael Erskine wrote:


Matt;

This is going to be a bit rough but I feel the need to call a this as 
I see it.  You are running roughshod on a lot of people with your fear 
mongering and it needs to be called into the open.  So...


  In discussions with others it has come to my attention that several
  companies are looking to exit the business for various reasons not
  the least of which is CALEA. If you're serious about exploring an
  exit, contact me offlist. I am interested in a variety of options
  from taking a controlling interest to an outright cash buyout.
 
  I don't want to sound like a vulture, but ...

... but you most certainly do sound like a vulture ...

What makes you such an authority on CALEA, Matt?  What qualifications 
or experience with CALEA do you bring to the table that give credence 
to the fear that you are mongering on this list?  Purchasing 
compliance does not constitute authoritative knowledge.


Most ISPs will be able to satisfy the CALEA requirements for less than 
$200.00.  Yep, that is what I said.  When the WISPA Standard gets 
blessed, and I did say when, there will be an open source 
implementation.  It will provide safe harbor and it will run on low 
end hardware.  Having had the personal experience of working with the 
LEAs a number of times since about 1990 I feel perfectly comfortable 
in expressing my dismay at the egregious misinformation and negative 
speculation you have posted on this list.  CALEA compliance is only 
going to be a problem for those WISPs who refuse to do due diligence 
in coming to compliance.


Honestly Matt, what you have demonstrated on this list is that you 
have a talent for fear mongering and then exploiting the poor gullible 
people who bought into that fear mongering.


Mind you that is only my opinion, but I am keeping it.  I strongly 
encourage anyone who is currently in fear of CALEA to just go reread 
the FAQ.  Read it critically, ensure that you have filed your 
documents thru Kris to the FBI.  Then relax.  The FBI is working very 
well with the committee.  Progress is being made very quickly on a 
tough problem. Just relax people.  Don't make a stupid mistake based 
upon pure horse hockey and spin which only serves to benefit those who 
would exploit your fear.  If you want to sell, don't let CALEA 
compliance be any 

RE: [WISPA] RE: Are you for sale?

2007-05-09 Thread Russ Kreigh

Man, go easy on the guy.  His intentions, whether good or bad, was that of a
capitalist.


Here is my big hangup on this:

It would be a two way negotiation, give these so-called VULTURE VICTIM'S
the benefit of the doubt that they would have half a brain to know if they
are getting screwed. They can walk away just as easy as Matt could retract
his offer. It's called due dilligence.


The bottom line is this:

1. If someone views CALEA as such a burden and they are incapable of doing
the due diligence themselves and are so easily convinced that the sky is
falling and that they want out, then Matt's offer would be welcome news.

2. If that's not the case, I am sure a conversation with Matt about fair
market value, or PARTNERSHIP oppurtunities for your orginazation wouldn't
hurt either.

As far as him exploting these people, it appeared to me that it was an open
offer to all companies looking for an exit, not JUST because of CALEA.

If you do not fall into one of the top two categories then do YOUR due
diligence in finding your delete key.

From what I have gathered and read, Matt is doing some pretty neat things in
our industry. He also seems to be willing to take the time to actively
participate in these lists, I've learnt a couple things from him reading his
posts.

Don't bother replying to me or attacking me, just remember who the real
enemy is, and that for sure isn't your fellow WISP.

We as people and as companies are all good at something, if we could just
stop attacking each other and work together, man, immagine what we could do.

-Russ





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Weinberg
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 5:58 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] RE: Are you for sale?

Bravo Michael. 


Ezlinx.net, Inc.
Jack Weinberg
69 Public Square, 14th Floor
Wilkes-Barre, PA 18701
 
ph: 1-866-439-5469
  1-570-823-9804
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Erskine
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:08 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] RE: Are you for sale?

Matt;

This is going to be a bit rough but I feel the need to call a this as I see
it.  You are running roughshod on a lot of people with your fear mongering
and it needs to be called into the open.  So...

   In discussions with others it has come to my attention that several  
 companies are looking to exit the business for various reasons not   
 
the least of which is CALEA. If you're serious about exploring an   
exit, contact me offlist. I am interested in a variety of optionsfrom
taking a controlling interest to an outright cash buyout.
  
   I don't want to sound like a vulture, but ...

... but you most certainly do sound like a vulture ...

What makes you such an authority on CALEA, Matt?  What qualifications or
experience with CALEA do you bring to the table that give credence to the
fear that you are mongering on this list?  Purchasing compliance does not
constitute authoritative knowledge.

Most ISPs will be able to satisfy the CALEA requirements for less than
$200.00.  Yep, that is what I said.  When the WISPA Standard gets blessed,
and I did say when, there will be an open source implementation.  It will
provide safe harbor and it will run on low end hardware.  Having had the
personal experience of working with the LEAs a number of times since about
1990 I feel perfectly comfortable in expressing my dismay at the egregious
misinformation and negative speculation you have posted on this list.  CALEA
compliance is only going to be a problem for those WISPs who refuse to do
due diligence in coming to compliance.

Honestly Matt, what you have demonstrated on this list is that you have a
talent for fear mongering and then exploiting the poor gullible people who
bought into that fear mongering.

Mind you that is only my opinion, but I am keeping it.  I strongly encourage
anyone who is currently in fear of CALEA to just go reread the FAQ.  Read it
critically, ensure that you have filed your documents thru Kris to the FBI.
Then relax.  The FBI is working very well with the committee.  Progress is
being made very quickly on a tough problem. 
Just relax people.  Don't make a stupid mistake based upon pure horse hockey
and spin which only serves to benefit those who would exploit your fear.  If
you want to sell, don't let CALEA compliance be any part of your decision.




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Re: [WISPA] RE: Are you for sale?

2007-05-09 Thread Jason


Isn't this what we filed on March 12?  Or is something else due?

File your compliance plan, because that is where they will get you.

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Re: [WISPA] RE: Are you for sale?

2007-05-09 Thread Peter R.

Jason wrote:



Isn't this what we filed on March 12?  Or is something else due?


File your compliance plan, because that is where they will get you.


If you filed the form 445 and SSI Plan, you are caught up with the 
paperwork.


   * Monitoring Reports (Due February 12, 2007)
   * Updates of Pending Section 107(c) Petitions (Due February 12, 2007)
   * System Security and Integrity Plans (Due March 12, 2007)


--


Regards,

Peter Radizeski
RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist
We Help ISPs Connect  Communicate
813.963.5884 
http://www.marketingIDEAguy.com



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Re: [WISPA] RE: Are you for sale?

2007-05-09 Thread George Rogato

Jason wrote:


Isn't this what we filed on March 12?  Or is something else due?

File your compliance plan, because that is where they will get you.



A lot of us at WISPA have hired Kris Twoomey to handle the CALEA filings 
for us.


I'm not sure how much it costs, lawyers are never cheap, but I feel 
safer having an attorney that is FCC versed handing this type of thing.


I also was happy to hear Michael Erskine's post seeing he is part of the 
WISPA/CALEA team. I sounds at least in part more reasonable.


I'm feel if a wisp is moving forward with CALEA compliance in a 
professionals manor, he is fairly safe, as long as he really is performing.

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Re: [WISPA] RE: Are you for sale?

2007-05-09 Thread Matt Liotta

Peter R. wrote:

Jason wrote:



Isn't this what we filed on March 12?  Or is something else due?


File your compliance plan, because that is where they will get you.


If you filed the form 445 and SSI Plan, you are caught up with the 
paperwork.



That's just it; many people filled 445, but didn't file an SSI Plan.

-Matt

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Re: [WISPA] RE: Are you for sale?

2007-05-09 Thread Matt Liotta

George Rogato wrote:

Jason wrote:


Isn't this what we filed on March 12?  Or is something else due?

File your compliance plan, because that is where they will get you.



A lot of us at WISPA have hired Kris Twoomey to handle the CALEA 
filings for us.


I'm not sure how much it costs, lawyers are never cheap, but I feel 
safer having an attorney that is FCC versed handing this type of thing.


I agree with that. Just remember though that just filing is only part of 
the compliance. A lawyer can't get you compliant; they can only help you 
with the paperwork.
I also was happy to hear Michael Erskine's post seeing he is part of 
the WISPA/CALEA team. I sounds at least in part more reasonable.


I'm feel if a wisp is moving forward with CALEA compliance in a 
professionals manor, he is fairly safe, as long as he really is 
performing.
I think Peter's point is that if you don't file the necessary paperwork 
then there will be reason to come after you. Beyond that you will want 
safe harbor, which is the only way to protect you from liability. Kris 
or whoever your lawyer is can advise you on safe harbor.


-Matt
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Re: [WISPA] RE: Are you for sale?

2007-05-09 Thread John Scrivner
Matt is right about the importance of filling out both forms. If some of 
you have only completed your 445 but not your SSI then you need to email 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or some other attorney and get it done. Kris Twomey 
handled both of these for many WISPA members recently (including me). If 
you only had one form completed you are not done. If you have not done 
either one then you REALLY need to get on the stick here and get this 
done. CALEA compliance is more than just waiting around for us to hand 
you a standard and then you're done. I am hoping Kris Twomey is here and 
can back this up with his thoughts about what is needed to date for 
meeting CALEA compliance. Then you do not have to take my word for it. 
You can hear it from a guy who works communications law all day long. 
Kris? Can you pass along your thoughts on the importance of filling out 
your forms?

Scriv




That's just it; many people filled 445, but didn't file an SSI Plan.

-Matt


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