Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?

2010-09-01 Thread Dennis Burgess
We never put more than 1 freq card in an enclosure.  XR2 + XR5, that's
fine, but not two XR2s or two XR5s.

---
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 5:44 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?

I gave up on using two of the same band radios in a single enclosure. 
Different bands seems to work just fine and no interference issues that
way either.
marlon

- Original Message -
From: Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 4:48 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?


 There was a discussion here not to long ago about interference with
using 
 two radios in one rb. As I recall there is interference but someone
had a 
 solution. I am sure someone will chime in or you could check the
archive.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 18, 2010, at 6:42 AM, Paolo Di Francesco 
 paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote:

 Hi all,

 in our point-to-point links, we have always used one single radio per
 routerboard and that worked nicely.

 Obviously using 2 radios in the same RB (e.g. RB433) is not a bad
idea,
 the cost is lower, but I was wondering if this can lead to some
 interference considering that the radios could be working on adjacent
 channels.

 that's why I would appreciate any suggestion about multiple radios on
 the same routerboard.

 Thank you in advance

 -- 


 Ing. Paolo Di Francesco

 Teleinform s.r.l.
 Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo
 Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
 Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
 Fax: +39-091-6406200

 http://www.wikitel.it
 http://www.teleinform.com








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Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?

2010-09-01 Thread Fred Goldstein
At 9/1/2010 06:53 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
We never put more than 1 freq card in an enclosure.  XR2 + XR5, that's
fine, but not two XR2s or two XR5s.

Reading the forums, especially the UBNT ones, I got some ideas about 
what might work.  Here's my recollection.

Just from the look of them, the UBNT radio cards seem to have more 
shielding than MTs, but the MTs might have enough.  One of the big 
problems in this case is the pigtails.  The stock ones are cheap, 
leaky coax.  One guy routinely puts multiple radios on the same band 
into one Routerboard, but he either builds his out pigtails out of 
double-shielded coax, or he uses selected Laird ones.  (Some Lairds 
are better than others, so they need testing.)

For $15-20, a real premium-quality pigtail could be a bargain.  Not 
that I know of anyone selling them.

There were also reports that the RB433 had problems that didn't show 
up in the RB600 or RB800.  This might be that on the RB433, cards are 
so close together that they touch, which is bad..  One guy stuck a 
toothpick between the adjacent cards.

The plastic UBNT antennas are somewhat leaky too; best results even 
with separate radios come from using RF Armor or other shields.

BTW I'm doing a design now with outdoor Routerboards, and hope to 
have multiple cards per box, so hearing about real experience with 
these or other tricks is alwasy helpful.

---
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 5:44 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?

I gave up on using two of the same band radios in a single enclosure.
Different bands seems to work just fine and no interference issues that
way either.
marlon

- Original Message -
From: Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 4:48 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?


  There was a discussion here not to long ago about interference with
using
  two radios in one rb. As I recall there is interference but someone
had a
  solution. I am sure someone will chime in or you could check the
archive.
 

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein at ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 




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Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?

2010-09-01 Thread Mike
If you could manage to get each radio card in its own Faraday shield you
could make it work.  You could put multiple router boards and cards in the
same box separated by a stainless steel plumber's mesh.  You have to take
pains to ground the mesh to the box. The problem is de-sense to the
receivers from the transmitters. 

I have built a number of 2.4 repeater type devices with two Deliberant
cards in a PAC Wireless pocket antenna.  One is connected to the internal
antenna, and the other is connected to a short ducky I glue to the inside
of the plastic cover at the top.

I use them to do site surveys.  The main radio connects to the tower, and
the second radio creates a hotspot to wirelessly connect to a laptop.

I will sometimes set the main radio SSID to any and put the MAC of the
second radio in its do not allow list.  I keep one of these in my Jeep in
case I need to make a quick connection to the Internet from hostile
territory.  It's amazing how many open access points a 19 dB antenna will
find -- even in the small towns I frequent.

Friendly Regards,
 
Mike
 
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Fred Goldstein
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:46 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?

At 9/1/2010 06:53 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
We never put more than 1 freq card in an enclosure.  XR2 + XR5, that's
fine, but not two XR2s or two XR5s.

Reading the forums, especially the UBNT ones, I got some ideas about 
what might work.  Here's my recollection.

Just from the look of them, the UBNT radio cards seem to have more 
shielding than MTs, but the MTs might have enough.  One of the big 
problems in this case is the pigtails.  The stock ones are cheap, 
leaky coax.  One guy routinely puts multiple radios on the same band 
into one Routerboard, but he either builds his out pigtails out of 
double-shielded coax, or he uses selected Laird ones.  (Some Lairds 
are better than others, so they need testing.)

For $15-20, a real premium-quality pigtail could be a bargain.  Not 
that I know of anyone selling them.

There were also reports that the RB433 had problems that didn't show 
up in the RB600 or RB800.  This might be that on the RB433, cards are 
so close together that they touch, which is bad..  One guy stuck a 
toothpick between the adjacent cards.

The plastic UBNT antennas are somewhat leaky too; best results even 
with separate radios come from using RF Armor or other shields.

BTW I'm doing a design now with outdoor Routerboards, and hope to 
have multiple cards per box, so hearing about real experience with 
these or other tricks is alwasy helpful.

---
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 5:44 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?

I gave up on using two of the same band radios in a single enclosure.
Different bands seems to work just fine and no interference issues that
way either.
marlon

- Original Message -
From: Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 4:48 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?


  There was a discussion here not to long ago about interference with
using
  two radios in one rb. As I recall there is interference but someone
had a
  solution. I am sure someone will chime in or you could check the
archive.
 

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein at ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 





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Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?

2010-08-18 Thread Jeremie Chism
There was a discussion here not to long ago about interference with using two 
radios in one rb. As I recall there is interference but someone had a solution. 
I am sure someone will chime in or you could check the archive. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 18, 2010, at 6:42 AM, Paolo Di Francesco 
paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote:

 Hi all,
 
 in our point-to-point links, we have always used one single radio per
 routerboard and that worked nicely.
 
 Obviously using 2 radios in the same RB (e.g. RB433) is not a bad idea,
 the cost is lower, but I was wondering if this can lead to some
 interference considering that the radios could be working on adjacent
 channels.
 
 that's why I would appreciate any suggestion about multiple radios on
 the same routerboard.
 
 Thank you in advance
 
 -- 
 
 
 Ing. Paolo Di Francesco
 
 Teleinform s.r.l.
 Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo
 Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
 Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
 Fax: +39-091-6406200
 
 http://www.wikitel.it
 http://www.teleinform.com
 
 
 
 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



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Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?

2010-08-18 Thread Eric Rogers
Why not use N radios?  If you don't like UBNT Rockets, then look at
Mikrotik 411s with Baltic Networks' Ubitik device.  You can buy the UBNT
dual-polarity dishes, but use Mikrotiks on them.

Eric Rogers
Precision Data Solutions, LLC
(317) 831-3000 x200


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 7:48 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?

There was a discussion here not to long ago about interference with
using two radios in one rb. As I recall there is interference but
someone had a solution. I am sure someone will chime in or you could
check the archive. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 18, 2010, at 6:42 AM, Paolo Di Francesco
paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote:

 Hi all,
 
 in our point-to-point links, we have always used one single radio per
 routerboard and that worked nicely.
 
 Obviously using 2 radios in the same RB (e.g. RB433) is not a bad
idea,
 the cost is lower, but I was wondering if this can lead to some
 interference considering that the radios could be working on adjacent
 channels.
 
 that's why I would appreciate any suggestion about multiple radios on
 the same routerboard.
 
 Thank you in advance
 
 -- 
 
 
 Ing. Paolo Di Francesco
 
 Teleinform s.r.l.
 Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo
 Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
 Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
 Fax: +39-091-6406200
 
 http://www.wikitel.it
 http://www.teleinform.com
 
 
 
 
 



 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/



 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
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Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?

2010-08-18 Thread David E. Smith
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 06:42, Paolo Di Francesco 
paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote:

 Obviously using 2 radios in the same RB (e.g. RB433) is not a bad idea,
 the cost is lower, but I was wondering if this can lead to some
 interference considering that the radios could be working on adjacent
 channels.


If you can avoid it, don't put two radios on the same band, in the same
enclosure. A 2.4 and 5.3 are okay, but if you have two 2.4 radios (for
example) you may have weird cross-talk and interference issues.

If you're not sure, just put up that second board; it's only a couple
hundred bucks, and could save you a lot of headaches.

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?

2010-08-18 Thread David E. Smith
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 08:47, Eric Rogers ecrog...@precisionds.com wrote:

 Why not use N radios?  If you don't like UBNT Rockets, then look at
 Mikrotik 411s with Baltic Networks' Ubitik device.  You can buy the UBNT
 dual-polarity dishes, but use Mikrotiks on them.


Depends on the radio, but the Mikrotik R52N cards have been a bit flaky -
mostly weird problems where the receive sensitivity doesn't seem to be as
good as some of their older cards.

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?

2010-08-18 Thread jp
That UBTik looks pretty cool.

Mikrotik rocks for a lot of things, but I don't trust their .N yet. For 
N I'll stick with Ubnt till I'm overwhelmed with reports of Mikrotik N 
greatness.


On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 09:47:22AM -0400, Eric Rogers wrote:
 Why not use N radios?  If you don't like UBNT Rockets, then look at
 Mikrotik 411s with Baltic Networks' Ubitik device.  You can buy the UBNT
 dual-polarity dishes, but use Mikrotiks on them.
 
 Eric Rogers
 Precision Data Solutions, LLC
 (317) 831-3000 x200
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 7:48 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?
 
 There was a discussion here not to long ago about interference with
 using two radios in one rb. As I recall there is interference but
 someone had a solution. I am sure someone will chime in or you could
 check the archive. 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Aug 18, 2010, at 6:42 AM, Paolo Di Francesco
 paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote:
 
  Hi all,
  
  in our point-to-point links, we have always used one single radio per
  routerboard and that worked nicely.
  
  Obviously using 2 radios in the same RB (e.g. RB433) is not a bad
 idea,
  the cost is lower, but I was wondering if this can lead to some
  interference considering that the radios could be working on adjacent
  channels.
  
  that's why I would appreciate any suggestion about multiple radios on
  the same routerboard.
  
  Thank you in advance
  
  -- 
  
  
  Ing. Paolo Di Francesco
  
  Teleinform s.r.l.
  Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo
  Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
  Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
  Fax: +39-091-6406200
  
  http://www.wikitel.it
  http://www.teleinform.com
  
  
  
  
  
 
 
 
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/*
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 http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/
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Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?

2010-08-18 Thread Paolo Di Francesco
anybody using multiple ubnt sr71-15 with/without any inteference issue?

Thank you in advance


 That UBTik looks pretty cool.
 
 Mikrotik rocks for a lot of things, but I don't trust their .N yet. For 
 N I'll stick with Ubnt till I'm overwhelmed with reports of Mikrotik N 
 greatness.
 
 
 On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 09:47:22AM -0400, Eric Rogers wrote:
 Why not use N radios?  If you don't like UBNT Rockets, then look at
 Mikrotik 411s with Baltic Networks' Ubitik device.  You can buy the UBNT
 dual-polarity dishes, but use Mikrotiks on them.

 Eric Rogers
 Precision Data Solutions, LLC
 (317) 831-3000 x200


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
 Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 7:48 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?

 There was a discussion here not to long ago about interference with
 using two radios in one rb. As I recall there is interference but
 someone had a solution. I am sure someone will chime in or you could
 check the archive. 

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 18, 2010, at 6:42 AM, Paolo Di Francesco
 paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote:

 Hi all,

 in our point-to-point links, we have always used one single radio per
 routerboard and that worked nicely.

 Obviously using 2 radios in the same RB (e.g. RB433) is not a bad
 idea,
 the cost is lower, but I was wondering if this can lead to some
 interference considering that the radios could be working on adjacent
 channels.

 that's why I would appreciate any suggestion about multiple radios on
 the same routerboard.

 Thank you in advance

 -- 


 Ing. Paolo Di Francesco

 Teleinform s.r.l.
 Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo
 Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
 Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
 Fax: +39-091-6406200

 http://www.wikitel.it
 http://www.teleinform.com






 
 
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-- 


Ing. Paolo Di Francesco

Teleinform s.r.l.
Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo
Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
Fax: +39-091-6406200

http://www.wikitel.it
http://www.teleinform.com






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Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?

2010-08-18 Thread Justin Wilson
Kurt had an insteresting thread awhile back where he had 2 cards and a
spectrum analyzer.
-- 
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
http://www.mtin.net/blog ­ xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw ­ Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting ­ Tower Climbing ­ Network Support




From: David E. Smith d...@mvn.net
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 09:16:31 -0500
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?


On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 06:42, Paolo Di Francesco
paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote:
 Obviously using 2 radios in the same RB (e.g. RB433) is not a bad idea,
 the cost is lower, but I was wondering if this can lead to some
 interference considering that the radios could be working on adjacent
 channels.
 

If you can avoid it, don't put two radios on the same band, in the same
enclosure. A 2.4 and 5.3 are okay, but if you have two 2.4 radios (for
example) you may have weird cross-talk and interference issues. 

If you're not sure, just put up that second board; it's only a couple
hundred bucks, and could save you a lot of headaches.

David Smith
MVN.net







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Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?

2010-08-18 Thread RickG
I love UBNT. I've been upgrading backhauls to RocketM's and CPE to BulletM's
and/or NanoM's. Customers keep mentioning the network seems faster  faster.
The word on the street is we're faster than cable  dsl! The only issue I've
had so far is that the legacy radios dont like UBNT AP's.

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 10:48 AM, jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com wrote:

 That UBTik looks pretty cool.

 Mikrotik rocks for a lot of things, but I don't trust their .N yet. For
 N I'll stick with Ubnt till I'm overwhelmed with reports of Mikrotik N
 greatness.


 On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 09:47:22AM -0400, Eric Rogers wrote:
  Why not use N radios?  If you don't like UBNT Rockets, then look at
  Mikrotik 411s with Baltic Networks' Ubitik device.  You can buy the UBNT
  dual-polarity dishes, but use Mikrotiks on them.
 
  Eric Rogers
  Precision Data Solutions, LLC
  (317) 831-3000 x200
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
  Behalf Of Jeremie Chism
  Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 7:48 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Single radio or multiple radios in the same box?
 
  There was a discussion here not to long ago about interference with
  using two radios in one rb. As I recall there is interference but
  someone had a solution. I am sure someone will chime in or you could
  check the archive.
 
  Sent from my iPhone
 
  On Aug 18, 2010, at 6:42 AM, Paolo Di Francesco
  paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote:
 
   Hi all,
  
   in our point-to-point links, we have always used one single radio per
   routerboard and that worked nicely.
  
   Obviously using 2 radios in the same RB (e.g. RB433) is not a bad
  idea,
   the cost is lower, but I was wondering if this can lead to some
   interference considering that the radios could be working on adjacent
   channels.
  
   that's why I would appreciate any suggestion about multiple radios on
   the same routerboard.
  
   Thank you in advance
  
   --
  
  
   Ing. Paolo Di Francesco
  
   Teleinform s.r.l.
   Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo
   Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo)
   Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501
   Fax: +39-091-6406200
  
   http://www.wikitel.it
   http://www.teleinform.com
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
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