Re: [WISPA] That Internet invention too often wrongly cited to justify big government.
At 7/31/2012 08:57 AM, Cliff Lebouef wrote: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? 7/24/12 The Wall Street Journal Yes, Crovitz' article got some serious reactions from the people who were actually there, the Internet old timers. He began by confusing Ethernet with Internet, perhaps because they rhyme and are both high-techy things, which to a finance guy like him make them equivalent. Then he completely distorts the history of the ARPANET and how the Internet evolved from it. He wasn't there. I was, and I was at BBN in the 1970s when we were building the ARPANET for the government. And I was at BBN in 1994 when they bought three of the previously government-sponsored NSFnet regional nets from their university owners and created a commercial ISP business. Just goes to show you that when Rupert Murdoch wants to spread a lie, he'll spread a real whopper. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] That Internet invention too often wrongly cited to justify big government.
I think the point of the article is once big government got out of the way, private interests (i.e. businesses) ran with the idea and it flourished. Best, Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Fred Goldstein Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 8:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] That Internet invention too often wrongly cited to justify big government. At 7/31/2012 08:57 AM, Cliff Lebouef wrote: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? 7/24/12 The Wall Street Journal Yes, Crovitz' article got some serious reactions from the people who were actually there, the Internet old timers. He began by confusing Ethernet with Internet, perhaps because they rhyme and are both high-techy things, which to a finance guy like him make them equivalent. Then he completely distorts the history of the ARPANET and how the Internet evolved from it. He wasn't there. I was, and I was at BBN in the 1970s when we were building the ARPANET for the government. And I was at BBN in 1994 when they bought three of the previously government-sponsored NSFnet regional nets from their university owners and created a commercial ISP business. Just goes to show you that when Rupert Murdoch wants to spread a lie, he'll spread a real whopper. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consultinghttp://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] That Internet invention too often wrongly cited to justify big government.
Either way, President Obamas statement that the internet was created so that all companies could make money off the Internet is patently false. I'm not one that disregards the positive things that have come out of (particularly) government defense and space spending, but those are side benefits, not the primary purpose. Regards, Jeff Sales Manager, Blue Technology 574-935-8484 x106 (US/Can) 574-220-7826 (Cell) +1 574-935-8484 (Int'l) From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Fred Goldstein Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 9:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] That Internet invention too often wrongly cited to justify big government. At 7/31/2012 08:57 AM, Cliff Lebouef wrote: Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet? 7/24/12 The Wall Street Journal Yes, Crovitz' article got some serious reactions from the people who were actually there, the Internet old timers. He began by confusing Ethernet with Internet, perhaps because they rhyme and are both high-techy things, which to a finance guy like him make them equivalent. Then he completely distorts the history of the ARPANET and how the Internet evolved from it. He wasn't there. I was, and I was at BBN in the 1970s when we were building the ARPANET for the government. And I was at BBN in 1994 when they bought three of the previously government-sponsored NSFnet regional nets from their university owners and created a commercial ISP business. Just goes to show you that when Rupert Murdoch wants to spread a lie, he'll spread a real whopper. -- Fred Goldstein k1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] That Internet invention too often wrongly cited to justify big government.
At 7/31/2012 09:28 AM, Brad Belton wrote: I think the point of the article is once big government got out of the way, private interests (i.e. businesses) ran with the idea and it flourished. Yes, that was the proopaganda point he was trying to make. But it was a flat-out lie when applied to the Internet. The government funded the development of the Internet. The government built and paid to run the Internet for years, for its own purposes. The government then let more and more non-governmental users (NSFnet educational) onto its Internet. All during this time, commercial internets (small-i) could have been built, and some were, but the critical mass of widespread connectivity happened when the government's Internet (big-I) was opened up to the general public, and government funding then ended. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own facts. Crovitz made stuff up that was just totally wrong, two quadrants opposed to the truth. He was no more accurate than Stalin's propagandists. In plain fact, the key move that made any public internet possible was a regulatory decision made by the FCC in the mid-1970s, the Sharing and Resale decision. They ordered ATT and other LECs to permit private lines to be shared and resold. Before that, a private line could only be run between a single customers' own sites. A line to your own customer was only available to licensed common carriers. A BBNer, Ralph Alter, went out and got FCC approval as the first packet-switched common carrier, PCI, in 1973. Shortly afterwards, BBN itself started up Telenet, while Tyment and Graphnet also got licensed. After the Sharing and Resale decision, becoming an ISP didn't require a common carrier license. Then 1980's Computer II decision forced the Bells to sell basic services to competitors if they wanted to offer enhanced services. The revocation of that in 2005 led to the NN kerfuffle and the demise of more wireline ISPs. Jeff Broadwick adds, Either way, President Obama's statement that the internet was created so that all companies could make money off the Internet is patently false. Well, no. His statement, read in context of the full paragraph, clearly meant something else entirely. His so that was not meant as created for the express purpose of, but as its perfectly good alternative meaning with the effect that. The ARPANET was created *not* to survive nuclear war (it was not a Strategic network) but to permit researchers (at industry and universities, as well as within the government) to share resources. The more decentralized but still subsidized Internet evolved in the 1980s. When it was privatized by the Clinton administration, companies could make then money off of it. (I note that the Romney campaign has been playing the selective editing trick. President Obama was clearly and plainly talking about highways and schools when he said, you didn't create that, but by editing out that reference and stringing other sentences together, he pretended that Obama told businessmen that they didn't create their own businesses. You can pretty much make anyone seem to say anything that way, as Colbert viewers know.) -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] That Internet invention too often wrongly cited to justify big government.
He said what he said Fred. He's the guy who's supposed to be the uber-communicator. Did some of it get taken out of context? Perhaps, but the overall context of saying that your success wasn't because you were smart or worked hard was even worse. Back to work now. Regards, Jeff Sales Manager, Blue Technology 574-935-8484 x106 (US/Can) 574-220-7826 (Cell) +1 574-935-8484 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Fred Goldstein Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 10:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] That Internet invention too often wrongly cited to justify big government. At 7/31/2012 09:28 AM, Brad Belton wrote: I think the point of the article is once big government got out of the way, private interests (i.e. businesses) ran with the idea and it flourished. Yes, that was the proopaganda point he was trying to make. But it was a flat-out lie when applied to the Internet. The government funded the development of the Internet. The government built and paid to run the Internet for years, for its own purposes. The government then let more and more non-governmental users (NSFnet educational) onto its Internet. All during this time, commercial internets (small-i) could have been built, and some were, but the critical mass of widespread connectivity happened when the government's Internet (big-I) was opened up to the general public, and government funding then ended. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own facts. Crovitz made stuff up that was just totally wrong, two quadrants opposed to the truth. He was no more accurate than Stalin's propagandists. In plain fact, the key move that made any public internet possible was a regulatory decision made by the FCC in the mid-1970s, the Sharing and Resale decision. They ordered ATT and other LECs to permit private lines to be shared and resold. Before that, a private line could only be run between a single customers' own sites. A line to your own customer was only available to licensed common carriers. A BBNer, Ralph Alter, went out and got FCC approval as the first packet-switched common carrier, PCI, in 1973. Shortly afterwards, BBN itself started up Telenet, while Tyment and Graphnet also got licensed. After the Sharing and Resale decision, becoming an ISP didn't require a common carrier license. Then 1980's Computer II decision forced the Bells to sell basic services to competitors if they wanted to offer enhanced services. The revocation of that in 2005 led to the NN kerfuffle and the demise of more wireline ISPs. Jeff Broadwick adds, Either way, President Obama's statement that the internet was created so that all companies could make money off the Internet is patently false. Well, no. His statement, read in context of the full paragraph, clearly meant something else entirely. His so that was not meant as created for the express purpose of, but as its perfectly good alternative meaning with the effect that. The ARPANET was created *not* to survive nuclear war (it was not a Strategic network) but to permit researchers (at industry and universities, as well as within the government) to share resources. The more decentralized but still subsidized Internet evolved in the 1980s. When it was privatized by the Clinton administration, companies could make then money off of it. (I note that the Romney campaign has been playing the selective editing trick. President Obama was clearly and plainly talking about highways and schools when he said, you didn't create that, but by editing out that reference and stringing other sentences together, he pretended that Obama told businessmen that they didn't create their own businesses. You can pretty much make anyone seem to say anything that way, as Colbert viewers know.) -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] That Internet invention too often wrongly cited to justify big government.
President Obama was clearly and plainly talking about highways and schools when he said, you didn't create that, The problem lies with that statement itself. They (business owners) did create the highways and schools. Who paid the taxes to build those roads? Who paid the taxes to build those schools? Did business owners get exemptions to not pay for those things? Or did they get taxed at a higher rate because they made more money? As roads are so ubiquitous, and they apparently make business thrive, why do thousands of business fail every year? Are there no roads where they are located? On Jul 31, 2012, at 8:23 AM, Fred Goldstein wrote: At 7/31/2012 09:28 AM, Brad Belton wrote: I think the point of the article is once big government got out of the way, private interests (i.e. businesses) ran with the idea and it flourished. Yes, that was the proopaganda point he was trying to make. But it was a flat-out lie when applied to the Internet. The government funded the development of the Internet. The government built and paid to run the Internet for years, for its own purposes. The government then let more and more non-governmental users (NSFnet educational) onto its Internet. All during this time, commercial internets (small-i) could have been built, and some were, but the critical mass of widespread connectivity happened when the government's Internet (big-I) was opened up to the general public, and government funding then ended. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own facts. Crovitz made stuff up that was just totally wrong, two quadrants opposed to the truth. He was no more accurate than Stalin's propagandists. In plain fact, the key move that made any public internet possible was a regulatory decision made by the FCC in the mid-1970s, the Sharing and Resale decision. They ordered ATT and other LECs to permit private lines to be shared and resold. Before that, a private line could only be run between a single customers' own sites. A line to your own customer was only available to licensed common carriers. A BBNer, Ralph Alter, went out and got FCC approval as the first packet-switched common carrier, PCI, in 1973. Shortly afterwards, BBN itself started up Telenet, while Tyment and Graphnet also got licensed. After the Sharing and Resale decision, becoming an ISP didn't require a common carrier license. Then 1980's Computer II decision forced the Bells to sell basic services to competitors if they wanted to offer enhanced services. The revocation of that in 2005 led to the NN kerfuffle and the demise of more wireline ISPs. Jeff Broadwick adds, Either way, President Obama's statement that the internet was created so that all companies could make money off the Internet is patently false. Well, no. His statement, read in context of the full paragraph, clearly meant something else entirely. His so that was not meant as created for the express purpose of, but as its perfectly good alternative meaning with the effect that. The ARPANET was created *not* to survive nuclear war (it was not a Strategic network) but to permit researchers (at industry and universities, as well as within the government) to share resources. The more decentralized but still subsidized Internet evolved in the 1980s. When it was privatized by the Clinton administration, companies could make then money off of it. (I note that the Romney campaign has been playing the selective editing trick. President Obama was clearly and plainly talking about highways and schools when he said, you didn't create that, but by editing out that reference and stringing other sentences together, he pretended that Obama told businessmen that they didn't create their own businesses. You can pretty much make anyone seem to say anything that way, as Colbert viewers know.) -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless ___ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
