Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-15 Thread Justin Wilson
110¹ in the ground? WOW!
-- 
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
http://www.mtin.net/blog ­ xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw ­ Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting ­ Tower Climbing ­ Network Support




From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 00:29:29 -0400
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

There are some of those towers spread around the country. Pretty amazing
self supporting structures. You could park several semi trucks under it. I
met the original owner of the one in WPB and he said it was $1.2 Million! He
claimed it would take a cat5 hurricane. Pylon footings were 110' down.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Patrick Shoemaker
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com wrote:
 Hey, that looks like our Hughes Memorial Tower here in DC:
 
 http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8hq=hnear=Washington,+District+of+Columbiall=
 38.963889,-77.027759spn=0,0.006539t=hz=18layer=ccbll=38.963786,-77.027765
 panoid=4Ar2-y_7Pek7ryLgjPdMUAcbp=12,142.6,,0,-30.81
 
 761 feet.
 
 Patrick Shoemaker
 Vector Data Systems LLC
 shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
 office: (301) 358-1690 x36
 http://www.vectordatasystems.com
 
 On 9/14/2010 12:24 PM, RickG wrote:
  I know what you mean! In West Palm, we were on a 550' monster off I-95.
  You could see it for miles around. The equipment 330' up on a standoff
  that was 10' from the tower, 330' up. I admit, it took me two separate
  tries to get the guts to walk out on it. Pics attached. We were plagued
  by lightning hits that picked on the switch in the enclosure at the top.
  I moved the enclosure off the standoff and left the radios on the mast
  on the standoff which helped a lot. Eventually, I ran fiber up and that
  fixed the issue altogether.
 
 
  On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net
  mailto:li...@mtin.net wrote:
 
          If it is a2-3 foot standoff it gets tricky.  I replaced a 2 foot
      dish on a 3 foot standoff last year.  Clipped the lobster tails to
      the tower and had to use the positioning hooks to balance myself on
      the end of the standoff.   One of those places where once you get it
      positioned its fairly comfortable.  Takes a little getting used not
      having any tower under you though.
 
           Had to go out on this standoff once:
      
 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30529837l=89297015d2id=1289017769
      
 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30529837l=89297015d2id=1289017769
 
 
      --
      Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://j...@mtin.net http://mtin.net 
      http://www.mtin.net/blog ­ xISP News
      http://www.twitter.com/j2sw ­ Follow me on Twitter
      Wisp Consulting ­ Tower Climbing ­ Network Support
 
 
 
      
 
      *From: *Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
      http://wispawirel...@ics-il.net http://ics-il.net 
 
      *Reply-To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
      http://wireless@wispa.org http://wispa.org 
      *Date: *Tue, 14 Sep 2010 06:59:24 -0500
 
      *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
      http://wireless@wispa.org http://wispa.org 
      *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!
 
          I have no idea how people use standoffs.  How do you access the
      gear on the standoff?
 
 
      -
      Mike Hammett
      Intelligent Computing Solutions
      http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
        On 9/13/2010 9:36 PM, Robert West wrote:
 
 
 
 
          I know you got Œem.
 
 
 
          I¹m looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting
          sector antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20²
          structural tube to mount to, three sided classic 1980¹s tower.
            300 footer.  I¹m the king at ripping off designs and welding
          up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some good ideas
          for this thing.
 
 
 
          I¹d say pretty please but I¹m not that pretty and I never
          please.  Well, so says the wife..  **sigh**
 
 
 
          Bob-
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
          
 
-
---
          WISPA Wants You! Join today!
          http://signup.wispa.org/
          
 
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---
 
          WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org http://wireless@wispa.org
 http://wispa.org 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-15 Thread Josh Luthman
That's a serious hole.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:09 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote:
 110’ in the ground? WOW!
 --
 Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
 http://www.mtin.net/blog – xISP News
 http://www.twitter.com/j2sw – Follow me on Twitter
 Wisp Consulting – Tower Climbing – Network Support



 
 From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 00:29:29 -0400
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

 There are some of those towers spread around the country. Pretty amazing
 self supporting structures. You could park several semi trucks under it. I
 met the original owner of the one in WPB and he said it was $1.2 Million! He
 claimed it would take a cat5 hurricane. Pylon footings were 110' down.

 On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Patrick Shoemaker
 shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com wrote:

 Hey, that looks like our Hughes Memorial Tower here in DC:

 http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8hq=hnear=Washington,+District+of+Columbiall=38.963889,-77.027759spn=0,0.006539t=hz=18layer=ccbll=38.963786,-77.027765panoid=4Ar2-y_7Pek7ryLgjPdMUAcbp=12,142.6,,0,-30.81

 761 feet.

 Patrick Shoemaker
 Vector Data Systems LLC
 shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
 office: (301) 358-1690 x36
 http://www.vectordatasystems.com

 On 9/14/2010 12:24 PM, RickG wrote:
 I know what you mean! In West Palm, we were on a 550' monster off I-95.
 You could see it for miles around. The equipment 330' up on a standoff
 that was 10' from the tower, 330' up. I admit, it took me two separate
 tries to get the guts to walk out on it. Pics attached. We were plagued
 by lightning hits that picked on the switch in the enclosure at the top.
 I moved the enclosure off the standoff and left the radios on the mast
 on the standoff which helped a lot. Eventually, I ran fiber up and that
 fixed the issue altogether.


 On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net
 mailto:li...@mtin.net wrote:

         If it is a2-3 foot standoff it gets tricky.  I replaced a 2 foot
     dish on a 3 foot standoff last year.  Clipped the lobster tails to
     the tower and had to use the positioning hooks to balance myself on
     the end of the standoff.   One of those places where once you get it
     positioned its fairly comfortable.  Takes a little getting used not
     having any tower under you though.

          Had to go out on this standoff once:

 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30529837l=89297015d2id=1289017769

 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30529837l=89297015d2id=1289017769


     --
     Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://j...@mtin.net http://mtin.net
 
     http://www.mtin.net/blog – xISP News
     http://www.twitter.com/j2sw – Follow me on Twitter
     Wisp Consulting – Tower Climbing – Network Support




 
     *From: *Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
     http://wispawirel...@ics-il.net http://ics-il.net 

     *Reply-To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
     http://wireless@wispa.org http://wispa.org 
     *Date: *Tue, 14 Sep 2010 06:59:24 -0500

     *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
     http://wireless@wispa.org http://wispa.org 
     *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

         I have no idea how people use standoffs.  How do you access the
     gear on the standoff?


     -
     Mike Hammett
     Intelligent Computing Solutions
     http://www.ics-il.com


       On 9/13/2010 9:36 PM, Robert West wrote:




         I know you got ‘em.



         I’m looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting
         sector antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20”
         structural tube to mount to, three sided classic 1980’s tower.
           300 footer.  I’m the king at ripping off designs and welding
         up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some good ideas
         for this thing.



         I’d say pretty please but I’m not that pretty and I never
         please.  Well, so says the wife..  **sigh**



         Bob-











 
         WISPA Wants You! Join today!
         http://signup.wispa.org/

 

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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-15 Thread Justin Wilson
Depending on the tower, you can normally loosen most standoffs and
rotate them closer to the tower.  Lot of variables there.  An angular tower
is harder to rotate the standoff than a tubular tower.

Justin
-- 
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
http://www.mtin.net/blog ­ xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw ­ Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting ­ Tower Climbing ­ Network Support




From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 20:30:29 -0400
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

I¹ve had the same issue.  I have designs for stand-offs in my head but then
I rethink it all due to maintenance issues.  Swing arms?
 
Dunno.
 
 
 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 7:59 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!
 
I have no idea how people use standoffs.  How do you access the gear on the
standoff?

 
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
 

On 9/13/2010 9:36 PM, Robert West wrote:
I know you got Œem.
 
I¹m looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting sector
antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20² structural tube to mount
to, three sided classic 1980¹s tower.  300 footer.  I¹m the king at ripping
off designs and welding up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some
good ideas for this thing.
 
I¹d say pretty please but I¹m not that pretty and I never please.  Well, so
says the wife..  *sigh*
 
Bob-
 
 
 
 
 
 


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-15 Thread Scott Carullo
If you have the proper gear and training you would never want to loosen 
standoffs to work on them to get them closer to the tower you are attached 
to...  its harder by far IMO

Scott Carullo
Technical Operations
877-804-3001 x102



From: Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 11:18 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

Depending on the tower, you can normally loosen most standoffs and rotate 
them closer to the tower.  Lot of variables there.  An angular tower is harder 
to rotate the standoff than a tubular tower.

Justin
--
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
http://www.mtin.net/blog - xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw - Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting - Tower Climbing - Network Support



From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 20:30:29 -0400
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

I've had the same issue.  I have designs for stand-offs in my head but then I 
rethink it all due to maintenance issues.  Swing arms?

Dunno.




From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 7:59 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

I have no idea how people use standoffs.  How do you access the gear on the 
standoff?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


On 9/13/2010 9:36 PM, Robert West wrote:
I know you got 'em.

I'm looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting sector antennas. 
 I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20 structural tube to mount to, three 
sided classic 1980's tower.  300 footer.  I'm the king at ripping off designs 
and welding up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some good ideas for 
this thing.

I'd say pretty please but I'm not that pretty and I never please.  Well, so 
says the wife..  *sigh*

Bob-







WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-15 Thread Robert West
That's impressive as hell.

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Justin Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 11:10 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

 

110' in the ground? WOW!
-- 
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
http://www.mtin.net/blog - xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw - Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting - Tower Climbing - Network Support




  _  

From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 00:29:29 -0400
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

There are some of those towers spread around the country. Pretty amazing
self supporting structures. You could park several semi trucks under it. I
met the original owner of the one in WPB and he said it was $1.2 Million! He
claimed it would take a cat5 hurricane. Pylon footings were 110' down.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Patrick Shoemaker
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com wrote:

Hey, that looks like our Hughes Memorial Tower here in DC:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8hq=hnear=Washington,+District+of+Columbia;
ll=38.963889,-77.027759spn=0,0.006539t=hz=18layer=ccbll=38.963786,-77.0
27765panoid=4Ar2-y_7Pek7ryLgjPdMUAcbp=12,142.6,,0,-30.81
hq=hnear=Washington,+District+of+Columbiall=38.963889,-77.027759spn=0,0.
006539t=hz=18layer=ccbll=38.963786,-77.027765panoid=4Ar2-y_7Pek7ryLgjPd
MUAcbp=12,142.6,,0,-30.81

761 feet.

Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com

On 9/14/2010 12:24 PM, RickG wrote:
 I know what you mean! In West Palm, we were on a 550' monster off I-95.
 You could see it for miles around. The equipment 330' up on a standoff
 that was 10' from the tower, 330' up. I admit, it took me two separate
 tries to get the guts to walk out on it. Pics attached. We were plagued
 by lightning hits that picked on the switch in the enclosure at the top.
 I moved the enclosure off the standoff and left the radios on the mast
 on the standoff which helped a lot. Eventually, I ran fiber up and that
 fixed the issue altogether.


 On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net
 mailto:li...@mtin.net mailto:li...@mtin.net%3e  wrote:

 If it is a2-3 foot standoff it gets tricky.  I replaced a 2 foot
 dish on a 3 foot standoff last year.  Clipped the lobster tails to
 the tower and had to use the positioning hooks to balance myself on
 the end of the standoff.   One of those places where once you get it
 positioned its fairly comfortable.  Takes a little getting used not
 having any tower under you though.

  Had to go out on this standoff once:
 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30529837
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30529837l=89297015d2id=1289017769
l=89297015d2id=1289017769
 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30529837
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30529837l=89297015d2id=1289017769
l=89297015d2id=1289017769


 --
 Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://j...@mtin.net http://mtin.net

 http://www.mtin.net/blog - xISP News
 http://www.twitter.com/j2sw - Follow me on Twitter
 Wisp Consulting - Tower Climbing - Network Support





 *From: *Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
 http://wispawirel...@ics-il.net http://ics-il.net 

 *Reply-To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 http://wireless@wispa.org http://wispa.org 
 *Date: *Tue, 14 Sep 2010 06:59:24 -0500

 *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 http://wireless@wispa.org http://wispa.org 
 *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

 I have no idea how people use standoffs.  How do you access the
 gear on the standoff?


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


   On 9/13/2010 9:36 PM, Robert West wrote:




 I know you got 'em.



 I'm looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting
 sector antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20
 structural tube to mount to, three sided classic 1980's tower.
   300 footer.  I'm the king at ripping off designs and welding
 up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some good ideas
 for this thing.



 I'd say pretty please but I'm not that pretty and I never
 please.  Well, so says the wife..  **sigh**



 Bob-













 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/




 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org http://wireless@wispa.org
http

Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-15 Thread Robert West
Short enough for maintenance.  I like.

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Justin Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 11:11 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

 

Attached is a pic of some simple standoffs.
-- 
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
http://www.mtin.net/blog - xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw - Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting - Tower Climbing - Network Support




  _  

From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 20:30:29 -0400
To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

I've had the same issue.  I have designs for stand-offs in my head but then
I rethink it all due to maintenance issues.  Swing arms?
 
Dunno.
 
 
 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 7:59 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

I have no idea how people use standoffs.  How do you access the gear on the
standoff?

 
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
 

On 9/13/2010 9:36 PM, Robert West wrote: 
I know you got 'em.
 
I'm looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting sector
antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20 structural tube to mount
to, three sided classic 1980's tower.  300 footer.  I'm the king at ripping
off designs and welding up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some
good ideas for this thing.
 
I'd say pretty please but I'm not that pretty and I never please.  Well, so
says the wife..  *sigh*
 
Bob-
 
 
 
 
 
 


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

  _  





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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-14 Thread Mike Hammett
 I have no idea how people use standoffs.  How do you access the gear 
on the standoff?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 9/13/2010 9:36 PM, Robert West wrote:


I know you got 'em.

I'm looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting sector 
antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20 structural tube to 
mount to, three sided classic 1980's tower.  300 footer.  I'm the king 
at ripping off designs and welding up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am 
looking for some good ideas for this thing.


I'd say pretty please but I'm not that pretty and I never please.  
Well, so says the wife..  **sigh**


Bob-





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-14 Thread Justin Wilson
If it is a2-3 foot standoff it gets tricky.  I replaced a 2 foot dish on
a 3 foot standoff last year.  Clipped the lobster tails to the tower and had
to use the positioning hooks to balance myself on the end of the standoff.
One of those places where once you get it positioned its fairly comfortable.
Takes a little getting used not having any tower under you though.

Had to go out on this standoff once:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30529837l=89297015d2id=1289017769

-- 
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
http://www.mtin.net/blog ­ xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw ­ Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting ­ Tower Climbing ­ Network Support




From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 06:59:24 -0500
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

   I have no idea how people use standoffs.  How do you access the gear on
the standoff?
 

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

 
 On 9/13/2010 9:36 PM, Robert West wrote:
 
  
 
 I know you got Œem.
  
  
  
 I¹m looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting sector
 antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20² structural tube to mount
 to, three sided classic 1980¹s tower.  300 footer.  I¹m the king at ripping
 off designs and welding up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some
 good ideas for this thing.
  
  
  
 I¹d say pretty please but I¹m not that pretty and I never please.  Well, so
 says the wife..  *sigh*
  
  
  
 Bob-
  
  
  
  
  
  
 
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-14 Thread RickG
Yes, angle iron. No, not HD zips, Skywalker. I did another tower with full
square tubing and really liked it but cant find the pics ;(.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:40 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote:

 Nice.  Is that angle iron for the standoff?





 Hopefully NOT Home Depot wire ties though.  I HATE their “military rated”
 wire ties.  What a joke, as I’ve said before and not so nicely.









 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On
 Behalf Of *RickG
 *Sent:* Monday, September 13, 2010 11:38 PM
 *To:* WISPA General List
 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!



 Most of my towers are water tanks. I do have a couple of tri-legs to
 contend with. I prefer stand offs. Sorry, only pic I've got.

 On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
 wrote:

 I know you got ‘em.



 I’m looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting sector
 antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20” structural tube to mount
 to, three sided classic 1980’s tower.  300 footer.  I’m the king at ripping
 off designs and welding up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some
 good ideas for this thing.



 I’d say pretty please but I’m not that pretty and I never please.  Well, so
 says the wife..  **sigh**



 Bob-









 
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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-14 Thread RickG
Depends on how high and how long the standoff is. Sometimes bucket,
sometimes you can just reach it. A lot of times, only the antenna is on the
end of the standoff so you dont need to get to it all that often, if ever.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:59 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote:

  I have no idea how people use standoffs.  How do you access the gear on
 the standoff?

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutionshttp://www.ics-il.com


 On 9/13/2010 9:36 PM, Robert West wrote:

  I know you got ‘em.



 I’m looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting sector
 antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20” structural tube to mount
 to, three sided classic 1980’s tower.  300 footer.  I’m the king at ripping
 off designs and welding up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some
 good ideas for this thing.



 I’d say pretty please but I’m not that pretty and I never please.  Well, so
 says the wife..  **sigh**



 Bob-








 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-14 Thread Justin Wilson
What I do most times is make a mark on the standoff and the tower.  This
is my reference marks.  Then you can swing the arm in closer to the tower
and work on it.  Then just swing it back out and align your marks.
-- 
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
http://www.mtin.net/blog ­ xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw ­ Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting ­ Tower Climbing ­ Network Support




From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 12:13:13 -0400
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

Depends on how high and how long the standoff is. Sometimes bucket,
sometimes you can just reach it. A lot of times, only the antenna is on the
end of the standoff so you dont need to get to it all that often, if ever.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:59 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
wrote:
 
  I have no idea how people use standoffs.  How do you access the gear on the
 standoff?
  
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 
  
  On 9/13/2010 9:36 PM, Robert West wrote:
 
  
 
 I know you got Œem.
  
  
  
 I¹m looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting sector
 antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20² structural tube to mount
 to, three sided classic 1980¹s tower.  300 footer.  I¹m the king at ripping
 off designs and welding up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some
 good ideas for this thing.
  
  
  
 I¹d say pretty please but I¹m not that pretty and I never please.  Well, so
 says the wife..  *sigh*
  
  
  
 Bob-
  
  
  
  
  
  
 
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-14 Thread RickG
Great idea if the standoff it bolted to the tower. Tip: Dont weld it to the
tower!

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote:

 What I do most times is make a mark on the standoff and the tower.
  This is my reference marks.  Then you can swing the arm in closer to the
 tower and work on it.  Then just swing it back out and align your marks.

 --
 Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
 http://www.mtin.net/blog – xISP News
 http://www.twitter.com/j2sw – Follow me on Twitter
 Wisp Consulting – Tower Climbing – Network Support



 --
 *From: *RickG rgunder...@gmail.com

 *Reply-To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 *Date: *Tue, 14 Sep 2010 12:13:13 -0400

 *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

 Depends on how high and how long the standoff is. Sometimes bucket,
 sometimes you can just reach it. A lot of times, only the antenna is on the
 end of the standoff so you dont need to get to it all that often, if ever.

 On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:59 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
 wrote:


  I have no idea how people use standoffs.  How do you access the gear on
 the standoff?

 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


  On 9/13/2010 9:36 PM, Robert West wrote:




 I know you got ‘em.



 I’m looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting sector
 antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20” structural tube to mount
 to, three sided classic 1980’s tower.  300 footer.  I’m the king at ripping
 off designs and welding up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some
 good ideas for this thing.



 I’d say pretty please but I’m not that pretty and I never please.  Well, so
 says the wife..  **sigh**



 Bob-










 
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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-14 Thread Patrick Shoemaker
Hey, that looks like our Hughes Memorial Tower here in DC:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8hq=hnear=Washington,+District+of+Columbiall=38.963889,-77.027759spn=0,0.006539t=hz=18layer=ccbll=38.963786,-77.027765panoid=4Ar2-y_7Pek7ryLgjPdMUAcbp=12,142.6,,0,-30.81

761 feet.

Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com

On 9/14/2010 12:24 PM, RickG wrote:
 I know what you mean! In West Palm, we were on a 550' monster off I-95.
 You could see it for miles around. The equipment 330' up on a standoff
 that was 10' from the tower, 330' up. I admit, it took me two separate
 tries to get the guts to walk out on it. Pics attached. We were plagued
 by lightning hits that picked on the switch in the enclosure at the top.
 I moved the enclosure off the standoff and left the radios on the mast
 on the standoff which helped a lot. Eventually, I ran fiber up and that
 fixed the issue altogether.


 On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net
 mailto:li...@mtin.net wrote:

 If it is a2-3 foot standoff it gets tricky.  I replaced a 2 foot
 dish on a 3 foot standoff last year.  Clipped the lobster tails to
 the tower and had to use the positioning hooks to balance myself on
 the end of the standoff.   One of those places where once you get it
 positioned its fairly comfortable.  Takes a little getting used not
 having any tower under you though.

  Had to go out on this standoff once:
 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30529837l=89297015d2id=1289017769
 
 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30529837l=89297015d2id=1289017769


 --
 Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://j...@mtin.net
 http://www.mtin.net/blog – xISP News
 http://www.twitter.com/j2sw – Follow me on Twitter
 Wisp Consulting – Tower Climbing – Network Support



 
 *From: *Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
 http://wispawirel...@ics-il.net

 *Reply-To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 http://wireless@wispa.org
 *Date: *Tue, 14 Sep 2010 06:59:24 -0500

 *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 http://wireless@wispa.org
 *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

 I have no idea how people use standoffs.  How do you access the
 gear on the standoff?


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


   On 9/13/2010 9:36 PM, Robert West wrote:




 I know you got ‘em.



 I’m looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting
 sector antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20”
 structural tube to mount to, three sided classic 1980’s tower.
   300 footer.  I’m the king at ripping off designs and welding
 up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some good ideas
 for this thing.



 I’d say pretty please but I’m not that pretty and I never
 please.  Well, so says the wife..  **sigh**



 Bob-










 
 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-14 Thread Bob Moldashel
I have worked on that tower a couple of times.  They just finished a big 
beef-up of that thing a year or two ago.

-B-



Patrick Shoemaker wrote:
 Hey, that looks like our Hughes Memorial Tower here in DC:

 http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8hq=hnear=Washington,+District+of+Columbiall=38.963889,-77.027759spn=0,0.006539t=hz=18layer=ccbll=38.963786,-77.027765panoid=4Ar2-y_7Pek7ryLgjPdMUAcbp=12,142.6,,0,-30.81

 761 feet.

 Patrick Shoemaker
 Vector Data Systems LLC
 shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
 office: (301) 358-1690 x36
 http://www.vectordatasystems.com

 On 9/14/2010 12:24 PM, RickG wrote:
   
 I know what you mean! In West Palm, we were on a 550' monster off I-95.
 You could see it for miles around. The equipment 330' up on a standoff
 that was 10' from the tower, 330' up. I admit, it took me two separate
 tries to get the guts to walk out on it. Pics attached. We were plagued
 by lightning hits that picked on the switch in the enclosure at the top.
 I moved the enclosure off the standoff and left the radios on the mast
 on the standoff which helped a lot. Eventually, I ran fiber up and that
 fixed the issue altogether.


 On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net
 mailto:li...@mtin.net wrote:

 If it is a2-3 foot standoff it gets tricky.  I replaced a 2 foot
 dish on a 3 foot standoff last year.  Clipped the lobster tails to
 the tower and had to use the positioning hooks to balance myself on
 the end of the standoff.   One of those places where once you get it
 positioned its fairly comfortable.  Takes a little getting used not
 having any tower under you though.

  Had to go out on this standoff once:
 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30529837l=89297015d2id=1289017769
 
 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30529837l=89297015d2id=1289017769


 --
 Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://j...@mtin.net
 http://www.mtin.net/blog – xISP News
 http://www.twitter.com/j2sw – Follow me on Twitter
 Wisp Consulting – Tower Climbing – Network Support



 
 *From: *Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
 http://wispawirel...@ics-il.net

 *Reply-To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 http://wireless@wispa.org
 *Date: *Tue, 14 Sep 2010 06:59:24 -0500

 *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 http://wireless@wispa.org
 *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

 I have no idea how people use standoffs.  How do you access the
 gear on the standoff?


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


   On 9/13/2010 9:36 PM, Robert West wrote:




 I know you got ‘em.



 I’m looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting
 sector antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20”
 structural tube to mount to, three sided classic 1980’s tower.
   300 footer.  I’m the king at ripping off designs and welding
 up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some good ideas
 for this thing.



 I’d say pretty please but I’m not that pretty and I never
 please.  Well, so says the wife..  **sigh**



 Bob-










 
 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-14 Thread Robert West
I've had the same issue.  I have designs for stand-offs in my head but then
I rethink it all due to maintenance issues.  Swing arms?

 

Dunno.

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 7:59 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

 

I have no idea how people use standoffs.  How do you access the gear on the
standoff?



 
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
 


On 9/13/2010 9:36 PM, Robert West wrote: 

I know you got 'em.

 

I'm looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting sector
antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20 structural tube to mount
to, three sided classic 1980's tower.  300 footer.  I'm the king at ripping
off designs and welding up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some
good ideas for this thing.

 

I'd say pretty please but I'm not that pretty and I never please.  Well, so
says the wife..  *sigh*

 

Bob-

 

 

 
 
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-14 Thread Glenn Kelley
hoverboard I suppose...  - truth is I am wondering the same thing - as I can 
see some of those being able to be used on some huge trees we have in locations 
- ie... my yard for example.

On Sep 14, 2010, at 7:59 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

 I have no idea how people use standoffs.  How do you access the gear on the 
 standoff?
 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
 On 9/13/2010 9:36 PM, Robert West wrote:
 
 I know you got ‘em.
  
 I’m looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting sector 
 antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20” structural tube to mount 
 to, three sided classic 1980’s tower.  300 footer.  I’m the king at ripping 
 off designs and welding up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some 
 good ideas for this thing.
  
 I’d say pretty please but I’m not that pretty and I never please.  Well, so 
 says the wife..  *sigh*
  
 Bob-
  
  
 
 
 
 
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_
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  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.




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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-14 Thread Robert West
Weld to the tower?!  Tower owner boy might wanna have a little talk with me
if I ever did that little number!

 

Bob-

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 12:45 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

 

Great idea if the standoff it bolted to the tower. Tip: Dont weld it to the
tower!

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net wrote:

   What I do most times is make a mark on the standoff and the tower.  This
is my reference marks.  Then you can swing the arm in closer to the tower
and work on it.  Then just swing it back out and align your marks.


-- 
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net

http://www.mtin.net/blog - xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw - Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting - Tower Climbing - Network Support





  _  

From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com


Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org

Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 12:13:13 -0400


To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

Depends on how high and how long the standoff is. Sometimes bucket,
sometimes you can just reach it. A lot of times, only the antenna is on the
end of the standoff so you dont need to get to it all that often, if ever.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 7:59 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
wrote:

   
 I have no idea how people use standoffs.  How do you access the gear on the
standoff?
 
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


 On 9/13/2010 9:36 PM, Robert West wrote: 

   
 

I know you got 'em.
 
 
 
I'm looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting sector
antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20 structural tube to mount
to, three sided classic 1980's tower.  300 footer.  I'm the king at ripping
off designs and welding up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some
good ideas for this thing.
 
 
 
I'd say pretty please but I'm not that pretty and I never please.  Well, so
says the wife..  *sigh*
 
 
 
Bob-
 
 
 
 
 
 





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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-14 Thread Robert West
I vote for hover board.

 

MARTY!

 

Doc Brown-

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Glenn Kelley
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 8:31 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

 

hoverboard I suppose...  - truth is I am wondering the same thing - as I can
see some of those being able to be used on some huge trees we have in
locations - ie... my yard for example.

 

On Sep 14, 2010, at 7:59 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:





I have no idea how people use standoffs.  How do you access the gear on the
standoff?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com http://www.ics-il.com/ 
 


On 9/13/2010 9:36 PM, Robert West wrote: 

I know you got 'em.

 

I'm looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting sector
antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20 structural tube to mount
to, three sided classic 1980's tower.  300 footer.  I'm the king at ripping
off designs and welding up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some
good ideas for this thing.

 

I'd say pretty please but I'm not that pretty and I never please.  Well, so
says the wife..  *sigh*

 

Bob-

 

 

 
 
 


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Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 

  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com

Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

 




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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-14 Thread RickG
There are some of those towers spread around the country. Pretty amazing
self supporting structures. You could park several semi trucks under it. I
met the original owner of the one in WPB and he said it was $1.2 Million! He
claimed it would take a cat5 hurricane. Pylon footings were 110' down.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Patrick Shoemaker 
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com wrote:

 Hey, that looks like our Hughes Memorial Tower here in DC:


 http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8hq=hnear=Washington,+District+of+Columbiall=38.963889,-77.027759spn=0,0.006539t=hz=18layer=ccbll=38.963786,-77.027765panoid=4Ar2-y_7Pek7ryLgjPdMUAcbp=12,142.6,,0,-30.81

 761 feet.

 Patrick Shoemaker
 Vector Data Systems LLC
 shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
 office: (301) 358-1690 x36
 http://www.vectordatasystems.com

 On 9/14/2010 12:24 PM, RickG wrote:
  I know what you mean! In West Palm, we were on a 550' monster off I-95.
  You could see it for miles around. The equipment 330' up on a standoff
  that was 10' from the tower, 330' up. I admit, it took me two separate
  tries to get the guts to walk out on it. Pics attached. We were plagued
  by lightning hits that picked on the switch in the enclosure at the top.
  I moved the enclosure off the standoff and left the radios on the mast
  on the standoff which helped a lot. Eventually, I ran fiber up and that
  fixed the issue altogether.
 
 
  On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Justin Wilson li...@mtin.net
  mailto:li...@mtin.net wrote:
 
  If it is a2-3 foot standoff it gets tricky.  I replaced a 2 foot
  dish on a 3 foot standoff last year.  Clipped the lobster tails to
  the tower and had to use the positioning hooks to balance myself on
  the end of the standoff.   One of those places where once you get it
  positioned its fairly comfortable.  Takes a little getting used not
  having any tower under you though.
 
   Had to go out on this standoff once:
 
 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30529837l=89297015d2id=1289017769
  
 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30529837l=89297015d2id=1289017769
 
 
  --
  Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net http://j...@mtin.net
  http://www.mtin.net/blog – xISP News
  http://www.twitter.com/j2sw – Follow me on Twitter
  Wisp Consulting – Tower Climbing – Network Support
 
 
 
 
 
  *From: *Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
  http://wispawirel...@ics-il.net
 
  *Reply-To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  http://wireless@wispa.org
  *Date: *Tue, 14 Sep 2010 06:59:24 -0500
 
  *To: *WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
  http://wireless@wispa.org
  *Subject: *Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!
 
  I have no idea how people use standoffs.  How do you access the
  gear on the standoff?
 
 
  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com
 
 
On 9/13/2010 9:36 PM, Robert West wrote:
 
 
 
 
  I know you got ‘em.
 
 
 
  I’m looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting
  sector antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20”
  structural tube to mount to, three sided classic 1980’s tower.
300 footer.  I’m the king at ripping off designs and welding
  up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some good ideas
  for this thing.
 
 
 
  I’d say pretty please but I’m not that pretty and I never
  please.  Well, so says the wife..  **sigh**
 
 
 
  Bob-
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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 wispa.org
 
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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-13 Thread Justin Wilson
Lots of pics on our blog at: http://www.mtin.net/blog .  Tagged under
tower and install.

Also have a gallery under Facebook.

Hit me offline for more.
-- 
Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net
http://www.mtin.net/blog ­ xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw ­ Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting ­ Tower Climbing ­ Network Support




From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 22:36:22 -0400
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

I know you got Œem.
 
I¹m looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting sector
antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20² structural tube to mount
to, three sided classic 1980¹s tower.  300 footer.  I¹m the king at ripping
off designs and welding up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some
good ideas for this thing.
 
I¹d say pretty please but I¹m not that pretty and I never please.  Well, so
says the wife..  *sigh*
 
Bob-
 
 






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Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

2010-09-13 Thread Robert West
Nice.  Is that angle iron for the standoff?

 

 

Hopefully NOT Home Depot wire ties though.  I HATE their military rated
wire ties.  What a joke, as I've said before and not so nicely.

 

 

 

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 11:38 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower mounting pics wanted!

 

Most of my towers are water tanks. I do have a couple of tri-legs to contend
with. I prefer stand offs. Sorry, only pic I've got.  

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com
wrote:

I know you got 'em.

 

I'm looking for some nice pics of the various ways of mounting sector
antennas.  I have a tower with 5 to 10 and even 20 structural tube to mount
to, three sided classic 1980's tower.  300 footer.  I'm the king at ripping
off designs and welding up my own (sorry, my bad)  and am looking for some
good ideas for this thing.

 

I'd say pretty please but I'm not that pretty and I never please.  Well, so
says the wife..  *sigh*

 

Bob-

 

 






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