Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[Clint Ricker]

I don't know the specifics of the Charter bankruptcy, but I've been
working in telecom long enough to know that most "traditional" service
providers do have to take on massive amounts of long-term debt to
build out their infrastructure.  Buildout of wireline networks is very
capital intensive, involves large long-term loans, and does have a lot
longer ROI than say, a wireless AP (most independent wisps build their
ROI around months rather than years).  On the other hand, the
infrastructure holds its value a lot longer (deployed cable HFC will
be commercially viable a lot longer than the current generation of
PTMP radios, deployed GPON FTTN even more so (all assuming some
swapouts of gear at the CO / headend every few years).

Debt is necessary part of most telecom buildout, and lenders knowingly
assume some of the risk in return for interest on their loans.  The
difference between Charter failing and other telco's / cable companies
succeeding isn't "business model" per-se (they all have, at some
level, the same business model) but is more likely the mundane issues
that usually lead to business success or failure -- execution, etc...

-Clint Ricker




On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Marlon K. Schafer  
wrote:
> Wish I could just write off my debt and still be in business.
>
> This kind of thing is just wrong.
>
> Go so far in debt that there's no way out.  Work off of a bad business
> model.  Then stick everyone else with the bill and walk away in a few years
> totally in the clear.
>
> it's BS
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>
>
>> Probably nothing, other than Charter may be more nimble in the future
>> without all of that burden.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "George Rogato" 
>> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 10:02 AM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>>
>>> Charter is set to file bankruptcy protection on or before April 1 as
>>> part of a financial restructuring to reduce its debt by $8bn.
>>>
>>> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/245062c2-f93d-11dd-90c1-77b07658.html?referrer_id=yahoofinance&ft_ref=yahoo1&segid=03058&nclick_check=1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>
>
>
> 
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-- 
Clint Ricker
Kentnis Technologies
800.783.5753



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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[Don Grossman]

That should be must not have paid federal taxes yet.  This money has  
not been collected.  It will be in the future..



On Feb 18, 2009, at 5:59 PM, Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

> You must not pay federal taxes them.
>
> rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
>>
>> No, it's NOT "my money".
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:00 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>>
>>
>>
>>> But it's your money?  You pay taxes right?  How can you feel wrong  
>>> about
>>> getting back what they took from you?
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
>>> Not me.  If it's wrong, it's wrong.   I'm not going to say "it  
>>> should not
>>> be
>>> done" and then go after the money for myself.   I'd have to hide  
>>> my face
>>> forever.    Money comes and goes.   Conscience is forever.
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:11 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>>>
>>>
>>>  Me?  I'm gonna go for as much grant money as I can get.  What  
>>> else can we
>>> do?
>>>
>>> marlon
>>>
>>>Well, whatcha gonna do?
>>>
>>>
>>>

Don Grossman
WillitsOnline LLC
Office 707-459-0824
d...@willitsonline.com




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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[Brian Rohrbacher]

You must not pay federal taxes them.

rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:

  No, it's NOT "my money".







- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:00 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


  
  
But it's your money?  You pay taxes right?  How can you feel wrong about 
getting back what they took from you?

Brian

rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
Not me.  If it's wrong, it's wrong.   I'm not going to say "it should not 
be
done" and then go after the money for myself.   I'd have to hide my face
forever.Money comes and goes.   Conscience is forever.





- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


 Me?  I'm gonna go for as much grant money as I can get.  What else can we
do?

marlon

   Well, whatcha gonna do?




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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[reader]

No, it's NOT "my money".







- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:00 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


> But it's your money?  You pay taxes right?  How can you feel wrong about 
> getting back what they took from you?
>
> Brian
>
> rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:
> Not me.  If it's wrong, it's wrong.   I'm not going to say "it should not 
> be
> done" and then go after the money for myself.   I'd have to hide my face
> forever.Money comes and goes.   Conscience is forever.
>
>
> 
> 
>
> - Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>
>
>  Me?  I'm gonna go for as much grant money as I can get.  What else can we
> do?
>
> marlon
>
>Well, whatcha gonna do?
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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>
>
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>





>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[RickG]

It's called survival. We've all been put into a bad position through
no fault of our own. Since we have no control, all we can do it react.
You cant blame someone for that.
-RickG

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
 wrote:
> Businesses come and go too Mark.
>
> Because we don't like it or think it's a good idea for the country doesn't
> make this "wrong" in a moral or ethical sense.
>
> I agree that this "package" is going to end up doing more harm than good.
> That knowledge won't stop anyone from spending the money though.  It's going
> to go out the door.
>
> And the more of it that comes to me, the better it'll be.  *I* can make sure
> that whatever part I get ahold of is used for the good of my community.  My
> competition may not be so honorable.
>
> By taking the grant funds I can minimize the damage this program will do.
> That's the smart thing to do.  It's also the right and honorable thing to
> do.  The only catch is to watch out for any strings that may be attached.
> We don't want to take money and use it to build things that aren't long term
> sustainable.
>
> It's like this Mark.  I find a bag (hell, I STEAL the bag) full of money
> from a drug pusher.  He's already gotten the money.  If he keeps it he'll
> spend it in ways that will enrich his drug empire.  If I spend it I'll use
> it to enrich my family and my community.  Think I'm likely to give the money
> back to the bad guy?
>
> We tried to do what was right and stop this madness.  But the deal is now
> done.  All we can do from here is minimize the damage.  Heck, we don't even
> be able to undo it, the money has to be handed out before the next election
> cycle.
>
> It sucks, but I'm going to do what I can to make sure my community comes out
> of this in the best shape possible.  That means that *I* get as much money
> as I can, not the telco that's based on the other side of the country.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>
>
>> Not me.  If it's wrong, it's wrong.   I'm not going to say "it should not
>> be
>> done" and then go after the money for myself.   I'd have to hide my face
>> forever.Money comes and goes.   Conscience is forever.
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>>
>>
>>> Me?  I'm gonna go for as much grant money as I can get.  What else can we
>>> do?
>>>
>>> marlon
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, whatcha gonna do?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Businesses come and go too Mark.

Because we don't like it or think it's a good idea for the country doesn't 
make this "wrong" in a moral or ethical sense.

I agree that this "package" is going to end up doing more harm than good. 
That knowledge won't stop anyone from spending the money though.  It's going 
to go out the door.

And the more of it that comes to me, the better it'll be.  *I* can make sure 
that whatever part I get ahold of is used for the good of my community.  My 
competition may not be so honorable.

By taking the grant funds I can minimize the damage this program will do. 
That's the smart thing to do.  It's also the right and honorable thing to 
do.  The only catch is to watch out for any strings that may be attached. 
We don't want to take money and use it to build things that aren't long term 
sustainable.

It's like this Mark.  I find a bag (hell, I STEAL the bag) full of money 
from a drug pusher.  He's already gotten the money.  If he keeps it he'll 
spend it in ways that will enrich his drug empire.  If I spend it I'll use 
it to enrich my family and my community.  Think I'm likely to give the money 
back to the bad guy?

We tried to do what was right and stop this madness.  But the deal is now 
done.  All we can do from here is minimize the damage.  Heck, we don't even 
be able to undo it, the money has to be handed out before the next election 
cycle.

It sucks, but I'm going to do what I can to make sure my community comes out 
of this in the best shape possible.  That means that *I* get as much money 
as I can, not the telco that's based on the other side of the country.
marlon

----- Original Message - 
From: 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


> Not me.  If it's wrong, it's wrong.   I'm not going to say "it should not 
> be
> done" and then go after the money for myself.   I'd have to hide my face
> forever.Money comes and goes.   Conscience is forever.
>
>
> ++++++++++++
> 
>
> ----- Original Message - 
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>
>
>> Me?  I'm gonna go for as much grant money as I can get.  What else can we
>> do?
>>
>> marlon
>>
>>>
>>> Well, whatcha gonna do?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>>
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>>
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>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[Brian Rohrbacher]

But it's your money?  You pay taxes right?  How can you feel wrong
about getting back what they took from you?

Brian

rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:

  Not me.  If it's wrong, it's wrong.   I'm not going to say "it should not be 
done" and then go after the money for myself.   I'd have to hide my face 
forever.Money comes and goes.   Conscience is forever.





- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


  
  
Me?  I'm gonna go for as much grant money as I can get.  What else can we
do?

marlon



  Well, whatcha gonna do?


  




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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[Blair Davis]

right on!

rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:

  Not me.  If it's wrong, it's wrong.   I'm not going to say "it should not be 
done" and then go after the money for myself.   I'd have to hide my face 
forever.Money comes and goes.   Conscience is forever.





- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


  
  
Me?  I'm gonna go for as much grant money as I can get.  What else can we
do?

marlon



  Well, whatcha gonna do?


  




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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[reader]

Not me.  If it's wrong, it's wrong.   I'm not going to say "it should not be 
done" and then go after the money for myself.   I'd have to hide my face 
forever.Money comes and goes.   Conscience is forever.





- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


> Me?  I'm gonna go for as much grant money as I can get.  What else can we
> do?
>
> marlon
>
>>
>> Well, whatcha gonna do?
>>
>>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Hi Rick,

I've applied for an RUS grant once.  Didn't get it in right so I got 
nothing.  Plus the time and strings required convinced me not to bother 
again.

This time around I don't know what I'll do or how to do it.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "RickG" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


> Marlon, Are you applying for the grant yourself or are you having
> someone write it?
> Have there been any WISP's successful in getting grants?
> It would be good for all WISP's, if the procedures were available.
> -RickG
>
> On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Marlon K. Schafer  
> wrote:
>> Me?  I'm gonna go for as much grant money as I can get.  What else can we
>> do?
>>
>> marlon
>>
>>>
>>> Well, whatcha gonna do?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>
>
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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[RickG]

Marlon, Are you applying for the grant yourself or are you having
someone write it?
Have there been any WISP's successful in getting grants?
It would be good for all WISP's, if the procedures were available.
-RickG

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Marlon K. Schafer  
wrote:
> Me?  I'm gonna go for as much grant money as I can get.  What else can we
> do?
>
> marlon
>
>>
>> Well, whatcha gonna do?
>>
>>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Me?  I'm gonna go for as much grant money as I can get.  What else can we 
do?

marlon

>
> Well, whatcha gonna do?
>
>




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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[reader]

Have you seen anyone who wasn't connected to DC carry this out?   I don't 
think my corp could get away with that.   BTW, there's been some people, 
including a coule in Congress who want to change the BK laws for 
corporations, so that if they go BK, the people who lent money get to hold 
the stock of the new corp.   I'll bet they'd get the incompetent fired and 
replaced.   Although, sometimes it really isn't a case of mismanagement - or 
it was mismanagement previous to the people who get stuck with the mess - 
like Chrysler is right now.   Daimler's to blame for 100% of their problems, 
it seems rather pointless to rip the guys trying to save it now...

Anyone notice that  the peanut guys just went out of business over some 
tainted peanuts?







- Original Message - 
From: 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


> Then to think about all companies that reorganize and end up continue 
> business like nothing happens except they screwed over their lenders and 
> the owners, board of directors and upper management that caused the mess 
> goes clean and free and get to keep it all.
>
> Sickening. And it does have nothing to do with Washington connections. 
> It's part of the system and have crooked good lawyer and careful planning 
> and preparations. Basically in my opinion it's premeditated (to borrow a 
> legal term from another legal area) bankruptcy if you ask me and shouldn't 
> be allowed. They should be punished not allowed to continue operation and 
> keep everything.
>
> /Eje
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: rea...@muddyfrogwater.us
>
> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 17:56:30
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>
>
> Unemployment and a default on a mortgage i was gaurantor of put me in
> Bankruptcy in 1997.I didn't get to keep nuttin.  I lost my home
> everything I had in the bank and was seriously whacked for a long time. 
> And
> I've battled crooked "collectors" who have tried to collect discharged 
> debt
> ever since.   The RE lenders were the worst thing about the whole deal.
> Basically, that was all I owed was on two homes and yet, it haunted me for
> more than 8 years before the last one stopped trying to collect on the 
> real
> estate loans.   Two of the three involved were guaranteed by HUD, yet,
> rather  than file for that gaurantee, they abdicated all rights to the
> proceeds of the RE sale and then fraudulently attempted for years to 
> collect
> from me or sell those loans elsewhere.   I lost track of the number of
> "owners" of those notes over the years.  I had no credit cards unpaid or 
> car
> loans or anything.
>
> Each time I had to dig up my BK judgement and prove it wasn't legally owed
> and they'd sell it again.   Often it was less than 2 months between being
> persued by a different 'agency' or "lender" or "owner".
>
> One guy managed to get someone to give him my work and my wife's work 
> phones
> and then they started threatening all kinds of stuff.
>
> But, hey, look at the bright side.   Someone might tell Trump YOU'RE
> FIRED!
>
> :)
>
>
> 
> 
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Eje Gustafsson" 
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 3:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>
>
>> Always hated that about the bankruptcy system. How a company can do so
>> many
>> stupid things then file chapter 11, get restructured and basically
>> continue
>> operations with all their equipment all in place but with no debt.
>>
>> If I wanted a fancy house, car and all cool gadget and got it on the
>> expense
>> of the business if I filed chapter 11 because of to high saleries and
>> spent
>> to much money on business building, and equipment rollout I would find
>> myself homeless, car less, customer less and no longer have a place to
>> conduct business and my cool hardware sold off. Then you have companies
>> like
>> Charter now and Cable & Wireless did 10 years back just as examples that
>> did
>> it and came out stronger then before and no debt and networks and
>> customers
>> in place and I bet not a single board member or upper management lost a
>> single thing of their personal affect.
>>
>> / Eje
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto

Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[eje]

Then to think about all companies that reorganize and end up continue business 
like nothing happens except they screwed over their lenders and the owners, 
board of directors and upper management that caused the mess goes clean and 
free and get to keep it all. 

Sickening. And it does have nothing to do with Washington connections. It's 
part of the system and have crooked good lawyer and careful planning and 
preparations. Basically in my opinion it's premeditated (to borrow a legal term 
from another legal area) bankruptcy if you ask me and shouldn't be allowed. 
They should be punished not allowed to continue operation and keep everything. 

/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: rea...@muddyfrogwater.us

Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 17:56:30 
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


Unemployment and a default on a mortgage i was gaurantor of put me in 
Bankruptcy in 1997.I didn't get to keep nuttin.  I lost my home 
everything I had in the bank and was seriously whacked for a long time.  And 
I've battled crooked "collectors" who have tried to collect discharged debt 
ever since.   The RE lenders were the worst thing about the whole deal. 
Basically, that was all I owed was on two homes and yet, it haunted me for 
more than 8 years before the last one stopped trying to collect on the real 
estate loans.   Two of the three involved were guaranteed by HUD, yet, 
rather  than file for that gaurantee, they abdicated all rights to the 
proceeds of the RE sale and then fraudulently attempted for years to collect 
from me or sell those loans elsewhere.   I lost track of the number of 
"owners" of those notes over the years.  I had no credit cards unpaid or car 
loans or anything.

Each time I had to dig up my BK judgement and prove it wasn't legally owed 
and they'd sell it again.   Often it was less than 2 months between being 
persued by a different 'agency' or "lender" or "owner".

One guy managed to get someone to give him my work and my wife's work phones 
and then they started threatening all kinds of stuff.

But, hey, look at the bright side.   Someone might tell Trump YOU'RE 
FIRED!

:)





- Original Message - 
From: "Eje Gustafsson" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


> Always hated that about the bankruptcy system. How a company can do so 
> many
> stupid things then file chapter 11, get restructured and basically 
> continue
> operations with all their equipment all in place but with no debt.
>
> If I wanted a fancy house, car and all cool gadget and got it on the 
> expense
> of the business if I filed chapter 11 because of to high saleries and 
> spent
> to much money on business building, and equipment rollout I would find
> myself homeless, car less, customer less and no longer have a place to
> conduct business and my cool hardware sold off. Then you have companies 
> like
> Charter now and Cable & Wireless did 10 years back just as examples that 
> did
> it and came out stronger then before and no debt and networks and 
> customers
> in place and I bet not a single board member or upper management lost a
> single thing of their personal affect.
>
> / Eje
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 5:18 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>
> Yeah, and WE'RE expected to compete.  No one bothers to point out that 
> they
> do it be going broke!!
>
> aaa
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Dennis Burgess" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>
>
>> They are starting to roll out 60meg down 5up.   Only in "test markets"
>> though.
>>
>> * ---
>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>
>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the
>> Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is in

Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[reader]

Unemployment and a default on a mortgage i was gaurantor of put me in 
Bankruptcy in 1997.I didn't get to keep nuttin.  I lost my home 
everything I had in the bank and was seriously whacked for a long time.  And 
I've battled crooked "collectors" who have tried to collect discharged debt 
ever since.   The RE lenders were the worst thing about the whole deal. 
Basically, that was all I owed was on two homes and yet, it haunted me for 
more than 8 years before the last one stopped trying to collect on the real 
estate loans.   Two of the three involved were guaranteed by HUD, yet, 
rather  than file for that gaurantee, they abdicated all rights to the 
proceeds of the RE sale and then fraudulently attempted for years to collect 
from me or sell those loans elsewhere.   I lost track of the number of 
"owners" of those notes over the years.  I had no credit cards unpaid or car 
loans or anything.

Each time I had to dig up my BK judgement and prove it wasn't legally owed 
and they'd sell it again.   Often it was less than 2 months between being 
persued by a different 'agency' or "lender" or "owner".

One guy managed to get someone to give him my work and my wife's work phones 
and then they started threatening all kinds of stuff.

But, hey, look at the bright side.   Someone might tell Trump YOU'RE 
FIRED!

:)





- Original Message - 
From: "Eje Gustafsson" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


> Always hated that about the bankruptcy system. How a company can do so 
> many
> stupid things then file chapter 11, get restructured and basically 
> continue
> operations with all their equipment all in place but with no debt.
>
> If I wanted a fancy house, car and all cool gadget and got it on the 
> expense
> of the business if I filed chapter 11 because of to high saleries and 
> spent
> to much money on business building, and equipment rollout I would find
> myself homeless, car less, customer less and no longer have a place to
> conduct business and my cool hardware sold off. Then you have companies 
> like
> Charter now and Cable & Wireless did 10 years back just as examples that 
> did
> it and came out stronger then before and no debt and networks and 
> customers
> in place and I bet not a single board member or upper management lost a
> single thing of their personal affect.
>
> / Eje
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 5:18 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>
> Yeah, and WE'RE expected to compete.  No one bothers to point out that 
> they
> do it be going broke!!
>
> aaa
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Dennis Burgess" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>
>
>> They are starting to roll out 60meg down 5up.   Only in "test markets"
>> though.
>>
>> * ---
>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>
>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the
>> Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended
>> only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.
>> Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of
>> any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities 
>> other
>
>> than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material
>> from any computer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Hammett wrote:
>>> Probably nothing, other than Charter may be more nimble in the future
>>> without all of that burden.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions

Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[reader]

Well, they are THE providers of broadband, didn't you know.Too valuable 
to "fail" and well connected in DC.

I read somewhere that between the bailouts - specifically banks and other 
financial institutions - and the loans that the taxpayers have gauranteed in 
the last year,  along with the spending and new spending programs voted in 
for the future, there's something like 18 TRILLION dollars in liabilites on 
the backs of the taxpayers that's new since the end of January 08.   And 
it's over 5 trillion in direct spending just for the 18 months between last 
july and the end of '09.   That assumes no new spending.

Someone I read, which if memory serves was a WSJ blog, calculated that we 
could just have let ALL the banks fail and instead, distributed 90,000 PER 
ADULT to the public and restarted with all new and solvent institutions and 
it would have been cheaper than the "stimulus", bank rescues and bailouts.

I know that with 180K in my family we'd have done a lot more stimulatin' 
than the present 3.3 trillion just passed.  (this includes the cost of 
future programs which are NOT paid for in this bill, cumulative to the next 
pres election).I am as horrified as you at the gross mismanagement.

But, just when you think you've seen it all...   The president (CEO?  COO? 
Chairman?  not sure) of Netflix apparently has publicly stated he thinks his 
taxes should be raised, along with all his business cohorts.If I were on 
his BOD, he'd be sending resumes out and unemployed the day after he said 
that.

Well, whatcha gonna do?





- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


> Yeah, and WE'RE expected to compete.  No one bothers to point out that 
> they
> do it be going broke!!
>
> aaa
> marlon
>
> - Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dennis Burgess" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>
>
>> They are starting to roll out 60meg down 5up.   Only in "test markets"
>> though.
>>
>> * ---
>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>
>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the
>> Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended
>> only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.
>> Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of
>> any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities 
>> other
>> than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material
>> from any computer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Hammett wrote:
>>> Probably nothing, other than Charter may be more nimble in the future
>>> without all of that burden.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "George Rogato" 
>>> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 10:02 AM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Charter is set to file bankruptcy protection on or before April 1 as
>>>> part of a financial restructuring to reduce its debt by $8bn.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/245062c2-f93d-11dd-90c1-77b07658.html?referrer_id=yahoofinance&ft_ref=yahoo1&segid=03058&nclick_check=1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.o

Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[Eje Gustafsson]

Always hated that about the bankruptcy system. How a company can do so many
stupid things then file chapter 11, get restructured and basically continue
operations with all their equipment all in place but with no debt. 

If I wanted a fancy house, car and all cool gadget and got it on the expense
of the business if I filed chapter 11 because of to high saleries and spent
to much money on business building, and equipment rollout I would find
myself homeless, car less, customer less and no longer have a place to
conduct business and my cool hardware sold off. Then you have companies like
Charter now and Cable & Wireless did 10 years back just as examples that did
it and came out stronger then before and no debt and networks and customers
in place and I bet not a single board member or upper management lost a
single thing of their personal affect. 

/ Eje

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 5:18 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

Yeah, and WE'RE expected to compete.  No one bothers to point out that they 
do it be going broke!!

aaa
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Dennis Burgess" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


> They are starting to roll out 60meg down 5up.   Only in "test markets"
> though.
>
> * ---
> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> WISPA Vendor Member*
> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>
> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
> Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended 
> only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. 
> Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of 
> any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other

> than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material 
> from any computer.
>
>
>
>
>
> Mike Hammett wrote:
>> Probably nothing, other than Charter may be more nimble in the future
>> without all of that burden.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "George Rogato" 
>> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 10:02 AM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>>
>>
>>> Charter is set to file bankruptcy protection on or before April 1 as
>>> part of a financial restructuring to reduce its debt by $8bn.
>>>
>>>
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/245062c2-f93d-11dd-90c1-77b07658.html?referrer
_id=yahoofinance&ft_ref=yahoo1&segid=03058&nclick_check=1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>


>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>


>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>


>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>


>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


&

Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Yeah, and WE'RE expected to compete.  No one bothers to point out that they 
do it be going broke!!

aaa
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Dennis Burgess" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


> They are starting to roll out 60meg down 5up.   Only in "test markets"
> though.
>
> * ---
> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> WISPA Vendor Member*
> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>
> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
> Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended 
> only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. 
> Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of 
> any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other 
> than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material 
> from any computer.
>
>
>
>
>
> Mike Hammett wrote:
>> Probably nothing, other than Charter may be more nimble in the future
>> without all of that burden.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "George Rogato" 
>> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 10:02 AM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>>
>>
>>> Charter is set to file bankruptcy protection on or before April 1 as
>>> part of a financial restructuring to reduce its debt by $8bn.
>>>
>>> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/245062c2-f93d-11dd-90c1-77b07658.html?referrer_id=yahoofinance&ft_ref=yahoo1&segid=03058&nclick_check=1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Wish I could just write off my debt and still be in business.

This kind of thing is just wrong.

Go so far in debt that there's no way out.  Work off of a bad business 
model.  Then stick everyone else with the bill and walk away in a few years 
totally in the clear.

it's BS
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


> Probably nothing, other than Charter may be more nimble in the future
> without all of that burden.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "George Rogato" 
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 10:02 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>
>> Charter is set to file bankruptcy protection on or before April 1 as
>> part of a financial restructuring to reduce its debt by $8bn.
>>
>> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/245062c2-f93d-11dd-90c1-77b07658.html?referrer_id=yahoofinance&ft_ref=yahoo1&segid=03058&nclick_check=1
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Sigh, THEY will bet all of the bailout money they can stomach.

How does no one end up in jail over this kind of lunacy?
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "George Rogato" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:02 AM
Subject: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


> Charter is set to file bankruptcy protection on or before April 1 as
> part of a financial restructuring to reduce its debt by $8bn.
>
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/245062c2-f93d-11dd-90c1-77b07658.html?referrer_id=yahoofinance&ft_ref=yahoo1&segid=03058&nclick_check=1
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
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> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[David E. Smith]

Dennis Burgess wrote:
> They are starting to roll out 60meg down 5up.   Only in "test markets" 

So far, that's one test market. Probably coincidental that the one 
market they're doing that (Saint Louis, MO) is the market where their 
corporate headquarters is located, and presumably where most of 
Charter's big execs live.

As far as whether Charter's bankruptcy filing will affect wireless 
operators in any meaningful way, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say 
"nope, not at all."

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[Dennis Burgess]

They are starting to roll out 60meg down 5up.   Only in "test markets" 
though.

* ---
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Mike Hammett wrote:
> Probably nothing, other than Charter may be more nimble in the future 
> without all of that burden.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "George Rogato" 
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 10:02 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>
>   
>> Charter is set to file bankruptcy protection on or before April 1 as
>> part of a financial restructuring to reduce its debt by $8bn.
>>
>> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/245062c2-f93d-11dd-90c1-77b07658.html?referrer_id=yahoofinance&ft_ref=yahoo1&segid=03058&nclick_check=1
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>> 
>
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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[Mike Hammett]

Probably nothing, other than Charter may be more nimble in the future 
without all of that burden.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "George Rogato" 
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 10:02 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

> Charter is set to file bankruptcy protection on or before April 1 as
> part of a financial restructuring to reduce its debt by $8bn.
>
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/245062c2-f93d-11dd-90c1-77b07658.html?referrer_id=yahoofinance&ft_ref=yahoo1&segid=03058&nclick_check=1
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 



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