Re: [WSG] Accessible - Standard Compliant - Club Membership System

[David Dorward]

On 13 Sep 2007, at 23:09, S.R. Emerson wrote:


Is there a particular reason you have specified XHTML?


So it is upgradeable for the future.


Well ... HTML 5 is being developed so XHTML is likely not the future,  
converting from HTML 4.01 to XHTML 1.0 isn't difficult anyway, and  
Appendix C is something of a pain. I wouldn't look so far to a  
possible (and increasingly unlikely) future at the expense of the  
present.


--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/




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Re: [WSG] Accessible - Standard Compliant - Club Membership System

[David Dorward]

On 14 Sep 2007, at 10:37, David Little wrote:


Well ... HTML 5 is being developed so XHTML is likely not the future,

I was under the impression that you'll also be able to write HTML 5  
in XHTML syntax (as XHTML 5, obviously different from XHTML 2 which  
is a different concept?).


They are still planning this, but the point is that HTML is not dead,  
(real) XHTML is still badly supported among user agents, and support  
for other namespaces mixed with XHTML (which is the only major  
benefit for it on the client side) is even worse.


--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/




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Re: [WSG] Accessible - Standard Compliant - Club Membership System

[David Little]

Well ... HTML 5 is being developed so XHTML is likely not the future,

I was under the impression that you'll also be able to write HTML 5 in XHTML
syntax (as XHTML 5, obviously different from XHTML 2 which is a different
concept?). This might not be the case of course -- could anyone shed any
light on this, or is this still an unknown?

Cheers,
David

On 14/09/2007, David Dorward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On 13 Sep 2007, at 23:09, S.R. Emerson wrote:
>
> >> Is there a particular reason you have specified XHTML?
> >
> > So it is upgradeable for the future.
>
> Well ... HTML 5 is being developed so XHTML is likely not the future,
> converting from HTML 4.01 to XHTML 1.0 isn't difficult anyway, and
> Appendix C is something of a pain. I wouldn't look so far to a
> possible (and increasingly unlikely) future at the expense of the
> present.
>
> --
> David Dorward
> http://dorward.me.uk/
> http://blog.dorward.me.uk/
>
>
>
>
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-- 
David Little

-e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-w: www.littled.net


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Re: [WSG] width calculation linux / windows

[ben van 't ende [netcreators]]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> ben van 't ende [netcreators] wrote:
>> Wow! Gunlaug. Amazing I knew there had to be a solution. I am still
>> wondering why this works. Isn't CSS wonderous?
> 
> Yes, CSS can be wondrous at times.
> 
> A block-element occupy space to the outside of its margins. Floats are
> no exception, but negative back-side margins' effect on floats and space
> may be slightly harder to grasp...
> 
> 

Hey Georg,

The only thing is ie6 crashes on resizing. That is a weird phenomenon. Not much
you can do about that i guess.

gRTz

ben
-- 
netcreators :: creation and innovation
www.netcreators.com -  www.typo3.nl

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Re: [WSG] Accessible - Standard Compliant - Club Membership System

[Matthew Cruickshank]

David Dorward wrote:


I was under the impression that you'll also be able to write HTML 5 
in XHTML syntax (as XHTML 5, obviously different from XHTML 2 which 
is a different concept?).


They are still planning this, but the point is that HTML is not dead, 
(real) XHTML is still badly supported among user agents, and support 
for other namespaces mixed with XHTML (which is the only major benefit 
for it on the client side) is even worse.


HTML5 or the XMLised equivalent are... equivalent, and I'd say so much 
so that internal publishing needs should override the choice between the 
two.


By this I mean consider what the CMS software you prefer, or whatever 
your publishing cycles demands.


There are many, many (many) more XML processing and publishing tools 
than HTML tools (due to the predictable syntax), and it's easier to 
integrate XHTML into publishing flows, but it of course your internal 
publishing needs will vary.



.Matthew Cruickshank
http://docvert.org/


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Re: [WSG] width calculation linux / windows

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

ben van 't ende [netcreators] wrote:





The only thing is ie6 crashes on resizing. That is a weird
phenomenon. Not much you can do about that i guess.


Probably a whole lot if I could isolate the IE6/OS/service-pack
combination - with settings - the crash happened on.
Win-XP/SP2 is said to introduce a nice soup of float-related
freeze/crash bugs in IE6, but I can't reproduce any such problems on any
of my installations with that or other win-OS/SPs for that page, and I
won't venture into blind debugging of IE6.

If anyone can reproduce this particular IE-bug and pin-point what
exactly that bugger chokes on, than a bug-fix may be found and added -
short of changing the actual 'negative margins on floats' demo as such.

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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Re: [WSG] width calculation linux / windows

[ben van 't ende [netcreators]]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> ben van 't ende [netcreators] wrote:
>>> 
> 
>> The only thing is ie6 crashes on resizing. That is a weird
>> phenomenon. Not much you can do about that i guess.
> 
> Probably a whole lot if I could isolate the IE6/OS/service-pack
> combination - with settings - the crash happened on.
> Win-XP/SP2 is said to introduce a nice soup of float-related
> freeze/crash bugs in IE6, but I can't reproduce any such problems on any
> of my installations with that or other win-OS/SPs for that page, and I
> won't venture into blind debugging of IE6.
> 
> If anyone can reproduce this particular IE-bug and pin-point what
> exactly that bugger chokes on, than a bug-fix may be found and added -
> short of changing the actual 'negative margins on floats' demo as such.

tHNx for the effort so far. i noticed this on all ie6's (sp2) i tested so far
and ie7 also has a problem with the left column when resizing. for the time
being i'll just take this fact as it is.

gRTz

ben
-- 
netcreators :: creation and innovation
www.netcreators.com -  www.typo3.nl

Interesse in werken bij Netcreators?
http://www.netcreators.com/bedrijf/vacatures/


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Re: [WSG] width calculation linux / windows

[David Laakso]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:

ben van 't ende [netcreators] wrote:





The only thing is ie6 crashes on resizing. That is a weird
phenomenon. Not much you can do about that i guess.


Probably a whole lot if I could isolate the IE6/OS/service-pack
combination - with settings - the crash happened on.
Win-XP/SP2 is said to introduce a nice soup of float-related
freeze/crash bugs in IE6, but I can't reproduce any such problems on any
of my installations with that or other win-OS/SPs for that page, and I
won't venture into blind debugging of IE6.

If anyone can reproduce this particular IE-bug and pin-point what
exactly that bugger chokes on, than a bug-fix may be found and added -
short of changing the actual 'negative margins on floats' demo as such.

regards
Georg



XP/IE6.0 standalone/Parallels Desktop/OS X 10.4.10

IE6 frequently crashes on this end; however, I see no problem with your 
page /crashing/ with either a very slow or fast drag from a full window 
down to 175px by 460px.


~dL


--
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/



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[WSG] prettier forms

[Maarten stolte]

Hello,

I'm looking for pointers towards tutorials on how to make a form look
prettier; especially the selectbox/pulldown and checkboxes are of
interest.

Thanks for any help,

Maarten



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Re: [WSG] Accessible - Standard Compliant - Club Membership System

[Stuart Foulstone]

Yes, but it's nowhere near completion or indeed absolute that it will go
ahead anyway.

So, there's no point in lowering your standards until you have to.


On Fri, September 14, 2007 10:14 am, David Dorward wrote:
>
> Well ... HTML 5 is being developed so XHTML is likely not the future,
> converting from HTML 4.01 to XHTML 1.0 isn't difficult anyway, and
> Appendix C is something of a pain. I wouldn't look so far to a
> possible (and increasingly unlikely) future at the expense of the
> present.
>
> --
> David Dorward
> http://dorward.me.uk/
> http://blog.dorward.me.uk/
>
>
>
>
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RE: [WSG] prettier forms

[Mohamed Jama]

As I recall those are controlled by the operating system so if you using
MAC they will look nice shiny blue etc, hope that helped

M. Jama

big:interactive
91 Princedale Road
Holland Park
London W11 4NS
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Direct: +44 (0)20 7313 2262
www.biggroup.co.uk

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Maarten stolte
Sent: 14 September 2007 14:29
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] prettier forms

Hello,

I'm looking for pointers towards tutorials on how to make a form look
prettier; especially the selectbox/pulldown and checkboxes are of
interest.

Thanks for any help,

Maarten



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Re: [WSG] prettier forms

[Jamie Stewart]

Drop down lists I'm not so sure but check boxes and radio buttons
definitely.

They use JavaScript and CSS and it is a form of image replacement that is
used.

Here is one example:

http://www.whatstyle.net/articles/18/pretty_form_controls_with_css

But there are many out there and as long as your check boxes degrade to the
default you will be fine.  So I suggest styling up your form using the
defaults and use the example above to enhance the look of the form only.
The example above uses CSS 3 pseudo classes but I believe he provides a
suitable alternative if you don't want to use CSS 3.

I hope this helps

Jamie.



On 14/09/2007, Mohamed Jama <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> As I recall those are controlled by the operating system so if you using
> MAC they will look nice shiny blue etc, hope that helped
>
> M. Jama
>
> big:interactive
> 91 Princedale Road
> Holland Park
> London W11 4NS
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Direct: +44 (0)20 7313 2262
> www.biggroup.co.uk
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Maarten stolte
> Sent: 14 September 2007 14:29
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: [WSG] prettier forms
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking for pointers towards tutorials on how to make a form look
> prettier; especially the selectbox/pulldown and checkboxes are of
> interest.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Maarten
>
>
>
> ***
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RE: [WSG] prettier forms

[Maarten stolte]

Hello,

> As I recall those are controlled by the operating system so if you using
> MAC they will look nice shiny blue etc, hope that helped

yes they are normally by either OS or the browser, as are all form
elements, but most can be styled, using either CSS, a proprietary system
or by using tricks like drawing an image instead of the checkbox, and
hiding the checkbox.
I maybe didn't make myself clear, but I'm trying to find a good example of
these javascript/dom/css tricks to style those elements, and maybe others,
and by good example I mean available on as many browsers as possible,
standards based and with a good fallback to the normal elements if the
tricks don't work on a browser.

regards,

Maarten

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Maarten stolte
> Sent: 14 September 2007 14:29
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: [WSG] prettier forms
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking for pointers towards tutorials on how to make a form look
> prettier; especially the selectbox/pulldown and checkboxes are of
> interest.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Maarten
>
>
>
> ***
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RE: [WSG] prettier forms

[Mark L Hedley]

Hi,

Give this a go:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=css+for+forms+and+drop+down+menus&met
a=



Regards,

Mark Hedley
Voxia Web Development Solutions

Mobile:   +44 07894 009 932
Office: +44 01670 840 752
Web:http://www.voxia.co.uk

Proud Members of: GAWDS (Guild of Accessible Web Designers) | Web Standards
Group | Independent Web Developers Portal | HTML Writers Guild

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Maarten stolte
Sent: 14 September 2007 14:29
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] prettier forms

Hello,

I'm looking for pointers towards tutorials on how to make a form look
prettier; especially the selectbox/pulldown and checkboxes are of
interest.

Thanks for any help,

Maarten



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Re: [WSG] prettier forms

[Maarten stolte]

> Drop down lists I'm not so sure but check boxes and radio buttons
> definitely.
>
> They use JavaScript and CSS and it is a form of image replacement that is
> used.
>
> Here is one example:
>
> http://www.whatstyle.net/articles/18/pretty_form_controls_with_css
>
> But there are many out there and as long as your check boxes degrade to
> the
> default you will be fine.  So I suggest styling up your form using the
> defaults and use the example above to enhance the look of the form only.
> The example above uses CSS 3 pseudo classes but I believe he provides a
> suitable alternative if you don't want to use CSS 3.


thanks, it looks like a nice css exercise, but with IE support being
non-existant, and IE usage being everything but non-existant I think I
prefer using the image tricks with javascript.
As for the drop down boxes, I know that tricks exist for those, but I am
afraid that those might not be available with the limits I set earlier on.


>
> I hope this helps
>
> Jamie.
>
>
>
> On 14/09/2007, Mohamed Jama <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> As I recall those are controlled by the operating system so if you using
>> MAC they will look nice shiny blue etc, hope that helped
>>
>> M. Jama
>>
>> big:interactive
>> 91 Princedale Road
>> Holland Park
>> London W11 4NS
>> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Direct: +44 (0)20 7313 2262
>> www.biggroup.co.uk
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On Behalf Of Maarten stolte
>> Sent: 14 September 2007 14:29
>> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
>> Subject: [WSG] prettier forms
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm looking for pointers towards tutorials on how to make a form look
>> prettier; especially the selectbox/pulldown and checkboxes are of
>> interest.
>>
>> Thanks for any help,
>>
>> Maarten
>>
>>
>>
>> ***
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Re: [WSG] prettier forms

[Christian Montoya]

On 9/14/07, Maarten stolte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking for pointers towards tutorials on how to make a form look
> prettier; especially the selectbox/pulldown and checkboxes are of
> interest.

I think this article would be very useful to you:
http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200701/styling_form_controls_with_css_revisited/

hope it helps.

-- 
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.net


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RE: [WSG] prettier forms

[Maarten stolte]

> Hi,
>
> Give this a go:
> http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=css+for+forms+and+drop+down+menus&met
> a=

thanks,

but I'd like to style a form element select box, so would you suggest
adding a javascript event to these pulldowns instead of a link to trigger
a hidden value in the form, or..?

Maarten


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Maarten stolte
> Sent: 14 September 2007 14:29
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: [WSG] prettier forms
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking for pointers towards tutorials on how to make a form look
> prettier; especially the selectbox/pulldown and checkboxes are of
> interest.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Maarten
>
>
>
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RE: [WSG] prettier forms

[Web Dandy Design]

Hi,

Try some of the following links for help with styling forms with CSS and
graphics.


http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2006/11/11/css-based-forms-modern-solutions/

http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2007/05/15/formal-weirdness/

http://www.sitepoint.com/article/fancy-form-design-css

http://www.sitepoint.com/article/style-web-forms-css

http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200409/styling_form_controls/

http://www.formassembly.com/form-garden.php

http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200705/creating_bulletproof_graphic_li
nk_buttons_with_css/


Kind regards,

Elaine
Web Designer
http://www.webdandy.co.uk

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Maarten stolte
Sent: 14 September 2007 14:46
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] prettier forms

Hello,

> As I recall those are controlled by the operating system so if you using
> MAC they will look nice shiny blue etc, hope that helped

yes they are normally by either OS or the browser, as are all form
elements, but most can be styled, using either CSS, a proprietary system
or by using tricks like drawing an image instead of the checkbox, and
hiding the checkbox.
I maybe didn't make myself clear, but I'm trying to find a good example of
these javascript/dom/css tricks to style those elements, and maybe others,
and by good example I mean available on as many browsers as possible,
standards based and with a good fallback to the normal elements if the
tricks don't work on a browser.

regards,

Maarten

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Maarten stolte
> Sent: 14 September 2007 14:29
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: [WSG] prettier forms
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking for pointers towards tutorials on how to make a form look
> prettier; especially the selectbox/pulldown and checkboxes are of
> interest.
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Maarten
>
>
>
> ***
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[WSG] Calendars and tables

[Andrew Maben]

I think there's more or less consensus that a calendar is tabular  
data. For one month that seems fine: th for days of the week, td for  
dates of the month (+ events on those days).


So what about an entire year? Is a table of tables permissible? Or  
should one somehow cram all the information into a single table?


I await your opinions with interest... and some trepidation!


Andrew







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Re: [WSG] Calendars and tables

[Diego La Monica]

Hi Andrew,
  few months ago I've made a tutorial[1] on my site (in italian language) to
make an experimental calendar totally accessible using (not a table but) a
pointed list (ul/li)[2] (Try to disable CSS and try to navigate it. Hope
you'll enjoy it). Much people said me to be agree with my ideas much other
not.

  So, IMHO (it's better to put this acronym :) ) , I should make a yearly
calendar made as a table with 12 cells: 3 cols x4 (Seasons) rows, and inside
each of them I would put my unordered-list-accessible calendar.

  I hope to be clear and usefull to your issue!

Best regards!

[1] Tutorial - Lang. ITA:
http://diegolamonica.info/tutorials/?id=10
[2] Demo: http://diegolamonica.info/instruments/download.php?id=28
-- 
Diego La Monica
Web: programmazione, standards, accessibilità e 2.0
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Web: http://diegolamonica.info


On 14/09/2007, Andrew Maben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I think there's more or less consensus that a calendar is tabular data.
> For one month that seems fine: th for days of the week, td for dates of the
> month (+ events on those days).
>
> So what about an entire year? Is a table of tables permissible? Or should
> one somehow cram all the information into a single table?
>
> I await your opinions with interest... and some trepidation!
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [WSG] width calculation linux / windows

[ben van 't ende [netcreators]]

David Laakso wrote:

> IE6 frequently crashes on this end; however, I see no problem with your
> page /crashing/ with either a very slow or fast drag from a full window
> down to 175px by 460px.

ok tHNx

ben
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