RE: [WSG] Installing More than one version of IE6
Darrin, I too used Internet Explorer Collection as suggested by Adam[1]. I did have to download some windows updates though to get IE8 running. I found the TredoSoft installer messed up form inputs and blocked selects! Thanks, Alex [1] http://finalbuilds.edskes.net/iecollection.htm *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Installing More than one version of IE6
Hi All - many thanks to everyone who proffered advice on this one - much appreciated, I'm about to explore some of these options...Darrin On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Alex James jam...@harlosh.com wrote: Darrin, I too used Internet Explorer Collection as suggested by Adam[1]. I did have to download some windows updates though to get IE8 running. I found the TredoSoft installer messed up form inputs and blocked selects! Thanks, Alex [1] http://finalbuilds.edskes.net/iecollection.htm *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible websites
sine qua non = indispensible On Thu, July 2, 2009 9:27 pm, Rick Faircloth wrote: It is the sine qua non of accessibility And that's exactly the point I'm trying to make...just addressing the font-size issue is the most basic form of accomodation possible. We can do better. On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson c...@freeshell.orgwrote: On Thu, 2 Jul 2009, Rick Faircloth wrote: But how will you magnify the images and layout as designed for me to view? Addressing font issues is only the absolute basic attempt to make the web more accessible...It's important to be able to see how something is said and with what supporting content and context, rather than just what is said. Focusing on font-size is quite an antiquated, limited view of accessiblity. It is the sine qua non of accessibility. It's not the only issue, but it is the most basic. Magnification of entire monitor screens (not just decreasing resolution), and browser magnification address all the issues, and in a very satisfying and simple manner, rather than asking/requiring web designers/developers to spend countless hours trying to code around the issues. There is no issue to code around. The only issue is overspecifying sizes which leads to inaccessible pages. Less is more. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster http://woodbine-gerrard.com === Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- -- Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. Henry Kissinger *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible websites
sine qua non also means most basic - yes, it is the most critical aspect of accessibility to information, if the information is contained in textual form, but it is only the most primal level of accessibility to be offered. New techniques, well not actually new, but finally unleashed legally, are being deployed which will allow designers to use any font desired and I'm not so sure that end users will have much control over the display of those fonts embedded in the site. Those font/design techniques, I believe, will dominate web design and could soon make all discussion of font manipulation a mute point, which will drive us towards other solutions, such as whole browser magnification, etc. On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 7:12 AM, Stuart Foulstone stu...@bigeasyweb.co.ukwrote: sine qua non = indispensible On Thu, July 2, 2009 9:27 pm, Rick Faircloth wrote: It is the sine qua non of accessibility And that's exactly the point I'm trying to make...just addressing the font-size issue is the most basic form of accomodation possible. We can do better. On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson c...@freeshell.orgwrote: On Thu, 2 Jul 2009, Rick Faircloth wrote: But how will you magnify the images and layout as designed for me to view? Addressing font issues is only the absolute basic attempt to make the web more accessible...It's important to be able to see how something is said and with what supporting content and context, rather than just what is said. Focusing on font-size is quite an antiquated, limited view of accessiblity. It is the sine qua non of accessibility. It's not the only issue, but it is the most basic. Magnification of entire monitor screens (not just decreasing resolution), and browser magnification address all the issues, and in a very satisfying and simple manner, rather than asking/requiring web designers/developers to spend countless hours trying to code around the issues. There is no issue to code around. The only issue is overspecifying sizes which leads to inaccessible pages. Less is more. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster http://woodbine-gerrard.com === Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- -- Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. Henry Kissinger *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- -- Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. Henry Kissinger *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Installing More than one version of IE6
For what it's worth. Microsoft have—for several years now—offered free Windows XP images with IE6/7/8RC and now IE8 as well in Microsoft Virtual PC format. Microsoft Virtual PC (the application) is also available for free, making this the most acurate and low-cost option available. The only drawback is that these images are time-bombed and only work for about 3-4 months. However, new ones are usually available as soon as the old ones expire. You can find the current images here: http://www.microsoft.com/Downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=21eabb90-958f-4b64-b5f1-73d0a413c8efdisplaylang=en Additionally, as Microsoft Virtual PC (the application, not the images) only run on the Windows platform, this is pretty useless for Linux of Mac users. The good news however is that VirtualBox—which does run on both Linux and Mac OS X—natively supports MS VPC images. You'd have to check the EULA that comes with the IE app Compat images to see if this is allowed. On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 5:22 AM, Darrin Potaka dpot...@gmail.com wrote: Hi - I hope this is on topic - I'm asking because I try to author to good standards... I need to install IE 6.0 alongside of IE 8. Running WIN XP SP 3. The multiple installer at TredoSoft which used to work wont install - are there any other options? Darrin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Accessible websites
I don't really see how the ability to download fonts (that is what you are talking about, isn't it?), will affect web accessibility significantly. It will have a big impact on design, but the technological change surely only affects the back-end of the web browser, not the actual display. PS I presume you meant 'moot' not 'mute' ? Regards, Mike From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org on behalf of Rick Faircloth Sent: Fri 03/07/2009 14:01 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessible websites sine qua non also means most basic - yes, it is the most critical aspect of accessibility to information, if the information is contained in textual form, but it is only the most primal level of accessibility to be offered. New techniques, well not actually new, but finally unleashed legally, are being deployed which will allow designers to use any font desired and I'm not so sure that end users will have much control over the display of those fonts embedded in the site. Those font/design techniques, I believe, will dominate web design and could soon make all discussion of font manipulation a mute point, which will drive us towards other solutions, such as whole browser magnification, etc. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** winmail.dat
Re: [WSG] Accessible websites
Yes, 'moot'...thanks for the correction... I'm not sure how the technological change will actually affect the interaction between end user and designer as far as who has final control of the presentation. Font embedding is not something that I've spent much time on. I can't find the reference now, but read recently that the font industry was finally beginning to get its act together and license fonts for embedding or download or whatever the technique is, through a clearinghouse to which designers would pay one of several fee options to be able to use licensed fonts in their sites. This opens up worlds of creative options and will complicate the issues of deriving meaning from text only, vs layout/text/graphics, etc. I just think the writing is on the wall that font manipulation has had its day, but will soon be overrun by more satisfying options that will have to be deployed by browser creators, rather than end users who will eventually have little or no control over how information is presented to them as a whole, rather than just on the font size they read. Rick On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 10:12 AM, michael.brocking...@bt.com wrote: I don't really see how the ability to download fonts (that is what you are talking about, isn't it?), will affect web accessibility significantly. It will have a big impact on design, but the technological change surely only affects the back-end of the web browser, not the actual display. PS I presume you meant 'moot' not 'mute' ? Regards, Mike From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org on behalf of Rick Faircloth Sent: Fri 03/07/2009 14:01 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessible websites sine qua non also means most basic - yes, it is the most critical aspect of accessibility to information, if the information is contained in textual form, but it is only the most primal level of accessibility to be offered. New techniques, well not actually new, but finally unleashed legally, are being deployed which will allow designers to use any font desired and I'm not so sure that end users will have much control over the display of those fonts embedded in the site. Those font/design techniques, I believe, will dominate web design and could soon make all discussion of font manipulation a mute point, which will drive us towards other solutions, such as whole browser magnification, etc. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- -- Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. Henry Kissinger *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible websites
I think this may be the service to which you refer... http://www.typekit.com http://blog.typekit.com -- DonkeyMagic: Website design development http://www.donkeymagic.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] working with line-height
Line-height (leading) is measured from baseline[1] to baseline rather
than from the ‘end’ of a glyph the the ‘tip’ of another. It is
essentially impossible to align ‘perfectly’ the top of say an
uppercase character to a horizontal line above it in CSS because of
this, and because many uppercase glyphs often are ‘shorter’ than
lowercase ascender glyphs (e.g. ‘h’ in ‘The’ will often be taller than
the capital ‘T’; here the ‘h’ reaches the topline)—this occurs notably
in serif typefaces. It is also important to note that optically size
12 Arial may not be the same as another font at size 12, and thus can
also apply for the standard leading when size and leading are set at
1:1.
Finally differing font raster/sub pixel engines will render type
differently (contrast ClearText with Apple’s engine and Apple Advanced
Typography (AAT)).
I think here I would have to echo either Matijs’ comment regarding the
pixel-perfect designs on the web or, alternatively, in aligning the
top of a word or phrase to a horizontal line (say a to ‘hang’ from a
coloured shape above it) just place it up high enough that even if
another font or engine were used it’ll be overlapping with the shape
enough to avoid dropping out of it due to some rendering or alternate
font. For an example of this see the text “17 Ottobre ’09” on http://uxcamp.it/
— it’s Helvetica Neue Bold and switching to Arial still keeps it
looking spiffy. (:
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseline_%28typography%29
Kind regards.
—Pascal
On 03/07/2009, at 8:56 AM, Paul Novitski wrote:
At 7/1/2009 07:19 PM, Ben Lau wrote:
This is what I'm trying to achieve: http://hellobenlau.net/wsg/eg.gif
http://hellobenlau.net/wsg/eg.gif
So there'll be a div with padding top and bottom of 20px, and with
text inside.
This doesn't look to me like a line-height topic at all. If you
increase the line-height, the lines of text within each paragraph
will separate from one another, and that isn't what your gif
illustrates. It looks more like a (default) line-height of 1.
Instead, this looks like a simple matter of applying padding
margins to the wrapper div its paragraphs.
Now, if we're to take your gif literally, it looks like you've got
17px between the two paragraphs. That implies:
div
{
padding-top: 20px;
padding-bottom: 3px;
}
div p
{
margin-bottom: 17px;
}
div
20px
psome text/p
17px
psome more text/p
17px
3px
/div
Regards,
Paul
__
Paul Novitski
Juniper Webcraft Ltd.
http://juniperwebcraft.com
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---
Simon Pascal Klein
Graphic Web Designer
Web: http://klepas.org
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Twitter: @klepas; http://twitter.com/klepas
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Re: [WSG] Accessible websites
Yes, thanks for the reference, Richard. I believe that's exactly what I was reading about. On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Richard Stephenson donkeyma...@gmail.comwrote: I think this may be the service to which you refer... http://www.typekit.com http://blog.typekit.com -- DonkeyMagic: Website design development http://www.donkeymagic.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- -- Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation. Henry Kissinger *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Deborah Hicks/BG/Health is out of the office. [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
I will be out of the office starting 03/07/2009 and will not return until 21/07/2009. I will respond to your message when I return. Please contact Rhonda Sekoranja or email Online Communications if you have urgent web publishing requirements. __ Important: This transmission is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain confidential or legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use or dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error please notify the author immediately and delete all copies of this transmission. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Installing More than one version of IE6
2009/7/3 Matijs mat...@gmail.com: For what it's worth. Microsoft have—for several years now—offered free Windows XP images with IE6/7/8RC and now IE8 as well in Microsoft Virtual PC format. Microsoft Virtual PC (the application) is also available for free, making this the most acurate and low-cost option available. The only drawback is that these images are time-bombed and only work for about 3-4 months. However, new ones are usually available as soon as the old ones expire. You can find the current images here: http://www.microsoft.com/Downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=21eabb90-958f-4b64-b5f1-73d0a413c8efdisplaylang=en Note that the link to Virtual PC on that page goes to the Windows 7 version; the XP/Vista version (Virtual PC 2007) is here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=04D26402-3199-48A3-AFA2-2DC0B40A73B6displaylang=en It will not run on any of the Home editions of Windows; you must have Professional, Enterprise or Ultimate. (not an endorsement, by the way... more of a warning.) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
