[WSG] APC magazine anti standards article
Hi all, anyone got a link to or can send me the text of that recent anti standards article mentioned here at APC? Thanks, John John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ :: webessentials Sept 30 - October 1 2004 Sydney Australia * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
Well to bring it tenuously back on topic... Take a look at some of the features on that page then take a trip to alistapart.com with a checklist: Mountaintop Corners Sliding Doors etc... ...and I forget where I've seen that background quotes idea before. What I'm driving at is not that the designer there has ripped anything off, more that you do build a mental or bookmarked scrapbook of ideas. In the digital web site they COULD have been influenced as much by discovering what can be done safely in CSS as much as what looks good. Design is as much about method as some ethereal gift which is often how it is treated. As Universal Head Peter points out it's often still an agonising process for 'designer people'. I moved into programming web apps as I'd been designing for over 10 years previously and needed a break from other people's opinions and all the back seat designing that you have to deal with (designer as scribe?!). I'm now getting back into it and what's interesting is all the methodology of creative thinking that I'm needing to get back into. As an example with regards to those alistapart things cited above I put them in a mental bookmark filed under...that would be good for the upcoming project X. This same process is done in programming where you build a library (mental or digital) of useful stuff. That said it still takes a certain other thing to get all things looking pretty and ahem... working in CSS (grasping at straws!). Nick We're in danger of getting smacked on the keyboard hands by the List Mum, but I'll quickly say: * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
I did a similar thing for a site I am about to design. I have been looking at various sites for ideas re color, layout, features, etc. and created a folder for sites I admire in my favorites. This help me narrow down the ideas I could use on the new site. At 02:03 AM 5/14/2004, Nick Lo wrote: As an example with regards to those alistapart things cited above I put them in a mental bookmark filed under...that would be good for the upcoming project X. This same process is done in programming where you build a library (mental or digital) of useful stuff. - Tina * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] APC magazine anti standards article
John, http://www.apcmag.com/apc/v3.nsf/0/A569C81864DC4F1BCA256E5F001A59C5 (posted here on April 16 by Iparuan Martinez) -Hugh Todd anyone got a link to or can send me the text of that recent anti standards article mentioned here at APC? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] APC magazine anti standards article
The World Wide Web Is Not Enough by David Emberton http://www.apcmag.com/apc/v3.nsf/0/A569C81864DC4F1BCA256E5F001A59C5 John Allsopp wrote: Hi all, anyone got a link to or can send me the text of that recent anti standards article mentioned here at APC? Thanks, John John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ :: webessentials Sept 30 - October 1 2004 Sydney Australia * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
Tina wrote: So far, I just scout around the Internet and look for other sites in the same industry or of the same subject matter. I build sites for the government and sticking to sites in the same industry or same subject matter, would makes some very uninteresting sites. I tend to take nodes of inspiration (see http://www.cameronmoll.com/archives/16.html for the rundown on nodes of inspiration) from a wide variety of sources, personal blogs, CSS Zen garden and almost everywhere else except other Gov sites. May I ask what sort of design books you use for inspiration? I have wondered myself where to get inspiration from. The book that has influenced me the most in how I design sites is Magazine Design That Works: Secrets for Successful Magazine Design by Stacey King, Rockport Publishers. Probably for two reasons: 1. It taught me a lot about grid theory (not being a traditional designer) 2. It mad me think about how to present the information in the best structre. Nick * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
The best place is to go to a good quality bookstore that stocks a range of design-related titles. I could name some in Sydney but that's not very useful for many people on the list ... I'm also on the visiting list of a distributor who specialises in design books who comes around to the studio occasionally to display a range of titles. Here's some titles from the bookshelf next to me ... There are books that focus on one studio's work eg Stefan Sagmeister 'Made You Look' Tolleson Design 'SoakWashRinseSpin' General design collections and annuals eg Graphis Typography (annual of the Type Directors Club) Graphic Design USA (annual of the American Institute of Graphic Arts) Specific design fields eg 'The Best of Brochure Design 07' 'The Power of Paper in Graphic Design' 'Fresh Ideas in Promotion' 'Even More Great Design Using 1, 2 or 3 colours' Magazines eg Communication Arts 'How-To' type books eg 'What is Packaging Design' 'Designing with Web Standards' Check out a good specialty bookstore. Hope this helps. Contact me off list if you need specifics. Peter On 14/05/2004, at 3:44 PM, YoYoEtc wrote: May I ask what sort of design books you use for inspiration? I have wondered myself where to get inspiration from. So far, I just scout around the Internet and look for other sites in the same industry or of the same subject matter. However, I tend to think that limits my brain somewhat i.e. when they are all of the same flavor. I'd like to find some sources of original inspiration but I don't know where to look for that. x-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerUniversal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
RE: [WSG] Tables are bad because...
Hi Aaron, How about this article, helpfully titled Why tables for layout is stupid. http://www.hotdesign.com/seybold/ Also, I highly recommend Jeffrey Zeldman's book Designing for Web Standards. It's a great read, for zealots and non-zealots alike :) K. -- Kay Smoljak Senior Developer/QC Leader/Search Optimisation PerthWeb Pty Ltd - http://www.perthweb.com.au/ Ph: 08 9226 1366 - Fax: 08 9226 1375 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aaron DC Sent: Friday, 14 May 2004 1:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Tables are bad because... ... heya all - just joined the list for interest's sake and am slowly making my way through some of the posted CSS-savvy sites. Somewhere along the way someone decided tables and in particular nested tables are a bad thing (tm) - I am curious as to the reasoning/history behind this, and the penalties I will receive when I release the new website design for my website :) Regards, Aaron * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Thanks Peter and Russ
An experienced designer should ask the right questions. Cheers! Peter On 14/05/2004, at 4:39 PM, Michael Kear wrote: Frankly I don't think I have the skills to brief a designer adequately yet. I suspect that's a skill all on its own. x-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerUniversal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
Re: [WSG] Tables are bad because...
Although as I'd already posted today... http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2004/05/13/gasp_tables/index.php ...has an objective look at it. How about this article, helpfully titled Why tables for layout is stupid. http://www.hotdesign.com/seybold/ Also, I highly recommend Jeffrey Zeldman's book Designing for Web Standards. It's a great read, for zealots and non-zealots alike :) * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Tables are bad because...
El vie, 14-05-2004 a las 08:55, Nick Lo escribió: Although as I'd already posted today... http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2004/05/13/gasp_tables/index.php After the 'there's a place for i and b' and 'there's a place for layout tables' posts, i feel i should be writing my own 'there's a place for font' post :o) -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65 http://simplelogica.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] css and accessibility question
Chris Keane wrote: The http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd requires an alt attribute for images, and the HTML DTD shows a similar requirement: My understanding follow. I write this from the perspective of having just done an XHTML/accessibility/usability anal probe on a new .gov.au site we're about to launch. All img tags require an alt attribute for valid XHTML. However, the value for the alt attribute may be empty for visual elements having no value other than to provide visual layout - for example, spacer images. I am fairly certain that W3C recommendations in this area follow this line. For my employer, where I am the web app development team leader (Federal government department), as well as standards Nazi, we have a requirement to meet all Priority 1 and choose to meet where possible, all Priority 2 and 3 requirements. Steve -- Em: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wb: http://www.stephencollins.org IM: ICQ - 1014940 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Tables are bad because...
Sorry but there isnt a place for font tags. font has been deprecated and sooner or later it'll cease working. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Tables are bad because... El vie, 14-05-2004 a las 08:55, Nick Lo escribió: Although as I'd already posted today... http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2004/05/13/gasp_tables/index.php After the 'there's a place for i and b' and 'there's a place for layout tables' posts, i feel i should be writing my own 'there's a place for font' post :o) * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] APC magazine anti standards article
Hey John, As you may have guessed, my post was partly in response to the awful article in APC mag. http://www.andybudd.com/archives/2004/04/ inciting_the_bile_of_the_web_standards_community/ I really didn't want it to become the definitive anti CSS article so thought a more level headed look at the table vs CSS debate was required. Andy Budd John Allsopp wrote: Thanks Kay and Hugh I am currently trying to pen a reasonable reply to Andy Budd's post this morning http://www.andybudd.com/archives/2004/05/ an_objective_look_at_table_based_vs_css_based_design/ sigh john http://www.apcmag.com/apc/v3.nsf/0/A569C81864DC4F1BCA256E5F001A59C5 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Tables are bad because...
Mike et al. Sorry but there isnt a place for font tags. font has been deprecated and sooner or later it'll cease working. Go to Andy's article, and try replacing the words table and table layout with font tag. Works a treat, Sigh, John John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ :: webessentials Sept 30 - October 1 2004 Sydney Australia * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
Ha funny, I've been pointing to... http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2004/05/13/gasp_tables/index.php ...which was pointing to your weblog and here you are on the list anyway! Next time I should just check the roster and leave you to respond to the Tables are bad because... posts! Nick Slick! Hill, Tim wrote: New redesign for digital web, looks cool. www.digital-web.com Andy Budd * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
;-) I have to admit that I don't get time to post that often so it's not surprising you didn't know I was on the roster. Nick Lo wrote: Ha funny, I've been pointing to... http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2004/05/13/gasp_tables/index.php ...which was pointing to your weblog and here you are on the list anyway! Next time I should just check the roster and leave you to respond to the Tables are bad because... posts! Nick Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
Of course, you can always look out next week for Ten Questions for Andy Budd - due to go live on Tuesday some time. Russ ;-) I have to admit that I don't get time to post that often so it's not surprising you didn't know I was on the roster. Nick Lo wrote: Ha funny, I've been pointing to... http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2004/05/13/gasp_tables/index.php ...which was pointing to your weblog and here you are on the list anyway! Next time I should just check the roster and leave you to respond to the Tables are bad because... posts! Nick * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Site Review and some guidance on inheritance please
Hi, Having done a couple of WestCiv courses on XHTML and CSS I'm now starting to develop my hobbyist site at http://www.gameplan.org.uk/ Don't answer his question. He made the Steelers lose to Cleveland! I do have a real comment. I think the color of the W3C icons is beating hell out of your blues. You either need to get rid of them (as in http://www.csszengarden.com/) or do something to give that orange-yellow a context. Yea, but he has the Bengals beating the Jaguars...so answer him! G I'll agree on the W3C icons. A grey or blue would be a better fit for the site. Also need to specify a style for the hover on those images, ridding them of the back background. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Tables are bad. Just because. [was APC magazine anti standards article]
As you may have guessed, my post was partly in response to the awful article in APC mag. While I agree that the APC article needs a literary slapping as often as possible, I feel that Mr. Budd's devil's advocacy tries to sit on the fence too much when there's soft grass on one side of it and dirt on the other. You can still maintain objectivity while dismissing anti-web standards comments with a heavier hand if the argument is a logical one. Here's my two pence worth to this whole rhubarb: http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/archives/49.php Patrick Griffiths (PTG) http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/ http://www.htmldog.com - Original Message - From: Andy Budd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] APC magazine anti standards article Hey John, As you may have guessed, my post was partly in response to the awful article in APC mag. http://www.andybudd.com/archives/2004/04/ inciting_the_bile_of_the_web_standards_community/ I really didn't want it to become the definitive anti CSS article so thought a more level headed look at the table vs CSS debate was required. Andy Budd * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Re: Site Review and IE5 issue
I'll agree on the W3C icons. A grey or blue would be a better fit for the site. Also need to specify a style for the hover on those images, ridding them of the back background. Thanks. I have now downloaded the old IE Browsers and IE5.* makes a right hash of it with the centre column overlapping the right one even when there is no need. Any ideas anyone? Alan * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Site Review and some guidance on inheritance please
You're quite welcome to mine on http://www.seowebsitepromotion.com. Mike Pepper Accessible Web Developer www.seowebsitepromotion.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael Donnermeyer Sent: 14 May 2004 11:08 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Site Review and some guidance on inheritance please Hi, Having done a couple of WestCiv courses on XHTML and CSS I'm now starting to develop my hobbyist site at http://www.gameplan.org.uk/ Don't answer his question. He made the Steelers lose to Cleveland! I do have a real comment. I think the color of the W3C icons is beating hell out of your blues. You either need to get rid of them (as in http://www.csszengarden.com/) or do something to give that orange-yellow a context. Yea, but he has the Bengals beating the Jaguars...so answer him! G I'll agree on the W3C icons. A grey or blue would be a better fit for the site. Also need to specify a style for the hover on those images, ridding them of the back background. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] ACA website revisited
OK, folks, Because I'm nuts (and to aid our hapless Australian Communications Authority) I've taken on the challenge from Ryan Christie, and rebuilt the ACA website's front page. Issues (anyone welcome to help here): 1) I don't know Javascript. I've taken Ben Boyle's cascading menu from here http://inspire.server101.com/js/mb/ , given a few tweaks to the CSS, and bunged it in the page. Looks great in Safari and Opera 7.5. In my IE 6 test machine, however,the CSS formatting breaks if there's a Flash item on the page. (So I've removed it. Weird.) 2) There's a small glitch in Firefox in the left hand menu, on rollover. Each of the li a elements has a bottom border of 1px solid. This only displays correctly if the a elements (which are padded to the desired depth to make them live for IE over their whole area) have transparent backgrounds. Otherwise the background colour of the a elements masks some of the horizontal lines. But I can't prevent this in the li a.visible:hover links. So some of them disappear on rollover. Having completed it, I now discover that the ACA site is now working in Safari. Not in IE 5 Mac, but the flyout uls in my version of Ben's menus have a strange way of disappearing on rollover in that browser. (Sigh). http://www.fortyfivedegrees.com/aca/ (cf http://www.aca.gov.au/ ) -Hugh Todd * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Re: Site Review and IE5 issue
IE 5 Mac or Windows? Cheers James Alan Milnes wrote: I'll agree on the W3C icons. A grey or blue would be a better fit for the site. Also need to specify a style for the hover on those images, ridding them of the back background. Thanks. I have now downloaded the old IE Browsers and IE5.* makes a right hash of it with the centre column overlapping the right one even when there is no need. Any ideas anyone? Alan * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] CSS calendar
Hello all, Anyone have examples of calendars created with CSS? I want to create a calendar for our clients to see when we have training scheduled, etc. and I'm curious to see what others have managed. Thanks. Barb -- Barbara Dozetos [EMAIL PROTECTED] Physician's Computer CompanyMarketing Team 1 Main St., Ste 7 802-846-5532 Winooski, VT 05404 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] CSS calendar
I'd argue that calendars are a prime example of tabular data, so I would strongly advise against attempting any table-less, pure-css solution that can convey the exact same semantic structure that a properly built table with correct THs with row and column scope can give... Anyway, this could help http://www.ericmeyeroncss.com/projects/03/ P Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk -Original Message- From: Barbara Dozetos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 May 2004 14:11 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] CSS calendar Hello all, Anyone have examples of calendars created with CSS? I want to create a calendar for our clients to see when we have training scheduled, etc. and I'm curious to see what others have managed. Thanks. Barb -- Barbara Dozetos [EMAIL PROTECTED] Physician's Computer Company Marketing Team 1 Main St., Ste 7 802-846-5532 Winooski, VT 05404 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS calendar
Barbara Dozetos wrote: Hello all, Anyone have examples of calendars created with CSS? I want to create a calendar for our clients to see when we have training scheduled, etc. and I'm curious to see what others have managed. I would say that tabular calendar data is a classic candidate for table markup, you'll need some advanced table styling skills: Tables for Tabular Data http://markl.f2o.org/tutorial/tables/Advanced_Tables.html Tonico -- Tonico Strasser ?:-) http://Tonico.FreeZope.org Contact_Tonico at Yahoo dot de Check out http://www.WebProducer.at * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Re: Site Review and IE5 issue
IE 5 Mac or Windows? Windows. Sorry - should have stated that. Alan * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS calendar
yes, folks -- I plan to do this in a tabular layout, but I would like to see how you all have turned on the CSS to make it fabulous. Barb Tonico Strasser wrote: Barbara Dozetos wrote: Hello all, Anyone have examples of calendars created with CSS? I want to create a calendar for our clients to see when we have training scheduled, etc. and I'm curious to see what others have managed. I would say that tabular calendar data is a classic candidate for table markup, you'll need some advanced table styling skills: Tables for Tabular Data http://markl.f2o.org/tutorial/tables/Advanced_Tables.html Tonico -- Barbara Dozetos [EMAIL PROTECTED] Physician's Computer CompanyMarketing Team 1 Main St., Ste 7 802-846-5532 Winooski, VT 05404 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS calendar
I was just going to suggest Eric Meyer on CSS as well. Bruce Gilbert Webmaster Durham Public Schools Durham, North Carolina (919) 560-9118 -Office Phone http://www.dpsnc.net Barbara Dozetos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc group.org Subject [WSG] CSS calendar 05/14/2004 09:11 AM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] roup.org Hello all, Anyone have examples of calendars created with CSS? I want to create a calendar for our clients to see when we have training scheduled, etc. and I'm curious to see what others have managed. Thanks. Barb -- Barbara Dozetos [EMAIL PROTECTED] Physician's Computer Company Marketing Team 1 Main St., Ste 7802-846-5532 Winooski, VT 05404 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS calendar
On Fri, 14 May 2004 09:11:26 -0400, Barbara Dozetos wrote: Anyone have examples of calendars created with CSS? I want to create a calendar for our clients to see when we have training scheduled, etc. and I'm curious to see what others have managed. You know, while I wouldnt discourage the technical challenge, there *is* the argument that a calendar is tabular data! eg. http://diveintomark.org/archives/2002/07/03/day_18_giving_your_calendar_a_real_caption Hmmm... that doesnt really cover it. U... http://gammatron.novarese.net/2003/10/30.html (scroll down to the second entry) Lea ~ bah, i hate it when google doesnt give me what I want! -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - http://elysiansystems.com/ Brisbane, Australia * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS calendar
El vie, 14-05-2004 a las 15:40, Tonico Strasser escribió: Barbara Dozetos wrote: Hello all, Anyone have examples of calendars created with CSS? I want to create a calendar for our clients to see when we have training scheduled, etc. and I'm curious to see what others have managed. I would say that tabular calendar data is a classic candidate for table markup, you'll need some advanced table styling skills: Agreed. For real nice styling, see Mena's calendar http://www.dollarshort.org/days/ -- Manuel trabaja para Simplelógica, construcción web (+34) 985 22 12 65 http://simplelogica.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS calendar
ah, this is exactly the kind of example I was wanting to see. Thanks, Manuel. Barb Manuel González Noriega wrote: Agreed. For real nice styling, see Mena's calendar http://www.dollarshort.org/days/ -- Barbara Dozetos [EMAIL PROTECTED] Physician's Computer CompanyMarketing Team 1 Main St., Ste 7 802-846-5532 Winooski, VT 05404 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Taking unnecessary cheap shots
The voices are telling me that Kay Smoljak said on 5/14/2004 1:10 AM: selfpromotion type=blatant I blogged it: http://kay.smoljak.com/archives/?dont-be-a-dinosaur /selfpromotion Oh. Well. In that case! There's a peripheral issue that's been bugging me. And since I think y'all would like to read it in pretty pumpkin colors: http://blog.crispen.org/archives/000433.html -- Rev. Bob Bob Crispen bob at crispen dot org Ex Cathedra Weblog: http://blog.crispen.org/ Some people just don't know how to drive... I call these people Everybody But Me * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] digital web magazine redesign
New redesign for digital web, looks cool. www.digital-web.com == Actually, in IE 5.x on mac the block of content under the menu tabs are partially covered up by the top of the left hand column, so that it appears very broken up. It looks very nice in NN7, though. -jon harris * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS calendar
Barbara Dozetos wrote: Anyone have examples of calendars created with CSS? I want to create a calendar for our clients to see when we have training scheduled, etc. and I'm curious to see what others have managed. Everyone uses a table for that kind of thing. You can style the table with css. Don't forget to add some classes: odd, even, calendar, today, weekend, nextmont, prevmonth, ... -- Kristof * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Re: Site Review and IE5 issue
http://www.gameplan.org.uk Well by taking out the percentage width parameters in the tables and cells it now works on Windows in Mozilla, IE5 and IE6. However that means it doesn't take all the space available to it. I can get it to use all the space (on my screen!) by putting a width in pixels but obviously that's not the way to go. So it looks like an IE5 bug where it's not properly calculating the space available to it in the DIV. Does that sound familiar to anyone? There are quite a few matches on google that look possible and I don't have time to follow them all tonight. I'll be at it again tomorrow but perhaps one of you will know immediately what bug I am hitting? Thanks for all your support. Alan * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Re: Site Review and IE5 issue
This is an autoresponder. I'll never see your message. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Remove Aaron@TheOneToGoTo.Com...
Can this guy get removed from the list?? What is the deal with these ANNOYING auto reposponders... Just sounds like its a bot... :o [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an autoresponder. I'll never see your message. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help *
Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
Moved to discussion room: http://discuss.webstandardsgroup.org/archives/16.htm Go for it! Russ Active discussions get their head lopped off when they don't have anything to do with standards. This particular thread covered the value of a university degree in the web design business... had it have been the lack of decent web design instruction in major universities, it would have carried on longer. sad, sad story it is. --Ryan Christie theGrafixGuy wrote: Why do the active threads get killed? Some one asks a decent question and gets some very valid input only to get killed off??? Just because something may not be of interest to the particular moderator on duty, I'd like to see a little consideration out there as well - if it is producing some interesting conversation and something worth reading and apparently of enough interest to readers to reply, why not let it continue? Heck, if I were the moderator, I'd be more inclined to jump on the Out of Office setters who don't know their e-mail from the end of their nose. My two cents worth on the matter - and no I am not trying to be disrespectful, just hoping to see some more interesting topics and e-mails than 23 in a 20 hour period! Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] XHTML/HTML
Hi Tina, If you use strict then the code and syntax is far more stringent in order to validate because many tags/elements have been deprecated. Transitional allows for more flexibility, and less stringent adherence to standard/compliant markup. Respectfully yours, Mario S. Cisneros I learned HTML with HTML 4.0 and I am now moving over to XHTML as it seems that all future coding will be XHTML. I know that XHTML is stricter in its formation, but I am curious to know what I should put in the DOCTYPE area of my pages if I am using XHTML. Is it HTML 4.0 Transitional or XHTML Transitional or XHTML strict? - Tina * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Tables are bad because...
Andy, I actually wrote about half a dozen different replies to the article and posted none of them, other than my snarky comment on your blog, for which I apologize. I didn't publish them because they were all a little, well, heated. I usually write, I hope, with a little levity, and wit, if on occasion it can be quite dry. I just couldn't in this case. I see where you are coming from, but really, I think it is up to those who honestly want to advocate for a non standards based approach to do so for themselves. Funnily, they usually end up looking like David Emberton's article. Judging by the comments to your post, you'll see that a lot of people want to use tables, largely because that is what they know and do now. They simply don't want to accept the arguments in favor of a standards based web. That's fine by me, they are quite entitled to do so. I don't think they are very wise, but while I evangelize web standards, I don't insist on people using them. But unfortunately an article like yours is not read by them in the spirit in which you intended, it is read as a vindication of their position. See, Andy Budd agrees with me. So rather than seeing something like at times, it may be necessary to use a non standards based approach to achieve an outcome within certain constraints, and that is ok they see all those standards zealots really don't know about the real world so everything they say can safely be ignored. Then Dave Shea, and Nick Bradbury and others weigh in nominally agreeing, making it all like its all so reasonable and realistic and essentially you reinforce the context of the discussion about web standards. And what was that context? Bluntly, using the words of the article, that people who advocate standards are zealots purists, live in Ivory towers (and so by implication, not the real world). They demonize tables, and so by implication the users of of tables, and they have a sense of superiority about their approach. This is the bit that made me sigh. This isn't objective, its only a slightly more subtle version of David Emberton's nonsense. It is unjustified, unsubstantiated, and frankly I took it a little personally. It reminds me (I am sure unintentionally) of the current right wing rhetorical trump card of referring to anyone who thinks (you know that say invading countries in contravention of international law is not like, totally ok) as an elitist, usually with latte sipping thrown in for good measure :-) ( dunno if that is a trend in the UK but it sure is in Australia and the US). In reality, the community of standards advocates, evangelists, whatever you want to call them is without question one of the most generous I have ever seen. If you want to get started there are any number of great free tutorials, guides, and other resources. There are mailing lists and newsgroups where people have been answering the same questions for nearly a decade, occasionally a little grumpily when the same question is asked for the 400th time, a question for which a good answer could be googled in a moment (font-size + pixel + em isn't that hard :-) People you have never met will fix your problems for free, send you screenshots in bowsers on platforms you don't have. Is there any evidence for the caricature of an elitist zealot here? Or anywhere for that matter? Not much that I have ever seen. I feel you have done a bit of a disservice to that whole community of which you are a member. I know it wasn't meant like that. I know it wasn't personal. But unfortunately you've just internalized and then reinforced this emerging stereotype of the web standards community. I have to admit that I don't think it does work. I don't think you can argue for instance that it's easier to use font tags than CSS or that there are occasions when font tags are less weighty and complicated than CSS. I was being metaphorical, in the sense that you could simply replace the words and have a perfectly coherent argument. Which is not that much less valuable than without interchanging the words. But 4 or 5 years ago, that was the article that would have been written. Shift happens. Andy, let those who wish to use tables, or whatever other approach design do as they will. Let those who believe that web standards are a good thing advocate and evangelize and continue to spread the word. Gil Scott-Heron, in the song I took the title of my message to the messengers article from says But I think you young folks need to know that...things don't go both ways. You can't talk respect on every other song or just every other day. He's talking to the rappers of today, but it's a bit like that with standards and accessibility. It is a commitment to something important, and like human rights, ethics, and other important things its not simply something we can cherry pick. At times it is hard. Trivial things are often easy. Non trivial things are often difficult. But usually vastly more rewarding. Keep fighting the good
Re: [WSG] XHTML/HTML
Tina, So does that mean if I put XHTML 1.0 Transitional that any code that is of either HTML 4.0 or XHTML 1.0 will be accepted by validators? forgive me if some of this is a little introductory. A document type or DTD defines the syntax for an application of SGML (in the case of HTML, which is an application of SGML) or XML (xhtml is an application of XML). What does that mean? it means that a DTD defines what elements are part of the language, what attributes those elements can take, and some more arcane issues that aren't all that relevant here. xhtml 1.0 transitional was designed to include many of the aspects of HTML 4 that were planned to be phased out (these are referred to as deprecated elements or attributes). xhtml 1.0 strict does not include those attributes and elements. The idea was that it would be relatively easy to transition from HTML 4 to xhtml 1.0, because you would not need to remove deprecated elements and attribute from your code, merely transform your code into XML syntax (empty elements closed with a / not a , such as img elements, style elements and so on), element names in lower case, attribute values quoted, all optionally closed elements like p and li in HTML explicitly closed with /p or /li and some other stuff that you may not have to worry about. I see my validator is presently set at HTML 4.0 Transitional so I assume that means that the validator will accept anything between HTML 3.2 (which I believe is the version just prior to 4.0) or 4.0. Not quite. What it will accept is documents marked up in accordance with the HTML 4.0 Transitional doctype rules. These do not entirely conform to HTML 3.2 Hope this is in some ways useful John John Allsopp :: westciv :: http://www.westciv.com/ software, courses, resources for a standards based web :: style master blog :: http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/ :: webessentials Sept 30 - October 1 2004 Sydney Australia * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] XHTML/HTML
Strict also means you have to be careful when including external directly unsupported multimedia such as Flash files. There are workarounds for this when using valid object tags but I can't seem to locate a reference for the kludge. Do a Google and you'll know doubt find it. Probably AListApart has illuminated the issue. You'll probably be horrified when you first run your site through the W3C validator - http://validator.w3.org/ - but many errors flagged are resolved simply by including the omitted ending slash / or by enforcing a true ampersand character as amp;, often appearing in URLs and conditional address parameters. It's good to make the move towards XHTML because it prepares you for the next generation of markup. There are issues with how Explorer interprets XHTML header details (metas) which, if not specifically understood, can throw it into quirks mode. But I'll let you read up on that :o) Good luck with the transition, Mike Pepper Accessible Web Developer www.seowebsitepromotion.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 May 2004 23:46 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] XHTML/HTML Hi Tina, If you use strict then the code and syntax is far more stringent in order to validate because many tags/elements have been deprecated. Transitional allows for more flexibility, and less stringent adherence to standard/compliant markup. Respectfully yours, Mario S. Cisneros I learned HTML with HTML 4.0 and I am now moving over to XHTML as it seems that all future coding will be XHTML. I know that XHTML is stricter in its formation, but I am curious to know what I should put in the DOCTYPE area of my pages if I am using XHTML. Is it HTML 4.0 Transitional or XHTML Transitional or XHTML strict? - Tina * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] XHTML/HTML
Hi Tina, I would suggest using HTML 4.01 Transitional over HTML 4.0 but I can't remember why now. I think (maybe) it is more consistently displayed across browsers. I know we had a reason to make sure we changed all our stuff years ago but it was probably to do with NN 4 at that stage. There is no requirement to change to XHTML and some of us argue that it's too early to go there yet anyway as the major browser doesn't support it when done absolutely correctly. Using XHTML 1.0 Transitional does work though, but there is no real benefit over HTML 4.01 for most websites as XHTML 1.0 Transitional is pretty well HTML 5 with a few extra requirements and it will tolerate faults pretty well. Depending on how complex your site is and what you use to edit content, you may have some issues (e.g. running a verity search engine across XHTML can be problematic and inline HTML editors in Content Management Systems can cause you headaches). Once you get into XHTML 1.1 (served correctly) things will break if not well formed and valid. The difference here is that should no longer be served up as text/html and this is where the fun starts with the major browser (IE). Anyway you asked about doctypes. Here is some reading for you, a list of doctypes and a good article on the subject: http://www.w3.org/QA/2002/04/valid-dtd-list.html http://www.alistapart.com/articles/doctype/ P I learned HTML with HTML 4.0 and I am now moving over to XHTML as it seems that all future coding will be XHTML. I know that XHTML is stricter in its formation, but I am curious to know what I should put in the DOCTYPE area of my pages if I am using XHTML. Is it HTML 4.0 Transitional or XHTML Transitional or XHTML strict? - Tina * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED - Open it back up! Please.
Lost battle (I tried before), for good off topic discussions go to CFAUSSIE.. This list is good, but the moderators like to keep it on topic, I think mainly to please some of the people that work for the government, and these people (not specifically government people) do not know how to sort or skip off topic threads. The moderators have provided a facility to discuss off-topic discussions though, you have to give them credit for it, but I reckon it doesn't work, I sure as hell can't be bothered to go somewhere else to continue discussions. I explained before that a lot of people remove themselves from the list due to the strictness of the list, which is a shame because those people need web standards the most. I think a lot of the people on the list also feel they have to answer every questions asked, which of course puts a lot off stress on these people (and therefore like to keep the list as clean as possible), but they have to understand they are not the only ones that are here to answer questions and should not feel pressured into having to answer every question asked. I personally think just about every off-topic thread will eventually become on-topic in the progress of discussion, and allowing these off-topic threads attracts more interest in this list by many people and thus learning more about web standards eventually, which is what this list is all about, trying to get new people to work with and understand web standards. Of course I opened my big mouth again by saying all this, whip me (please ;-), it's just the way I am. Taco Fleur Tell me and I will forget Show me and I will remember Teach me and I will learn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Christie Sent: Saturday, 15 May 2004 8:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED - Open it back up! Please. Active discussions get their head lopped off when they don't have anything to do with standards. This particular thread covered the value of a university degree in the web design business... had it have been the lack of decent web design instruction in major universities, it would have carried on longer. sad, sad story it is. --Ryan Christie theGrafixGuy wrote: Why do the active threads get killed? Some one asks a decent question and gets some very valid input only to get killed off??? Just because something may not be of interest to the particular moderator on duty, I'd like to see a little consideration out there as well - if it is producing some interesting conversation and something worth reading and apparently of enough interest to readers to reply, why not let it continue? Heck, if I were the moderator, I'd be more inclined to jump on the Out of Office setters who don't know their e-mail from the end of their nose. My two cents worth on the matter - and no I am not trying to be disrespectful, just hoping to see some more interesting topics and e-mails than 23 in a 20 hour period! Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy -Original Message- From: Peter Firminger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED Russ already stopped this thread. Please do not continue with it on list. P * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] XHTML/HTML
As long as its valid and well-formed markup then the validator will acknowledge your site as compliant. However, if not, then it will provide you a list of errors when using inproper markup with either HTML or XHTML depending on your DOCTYPE. I'm sure not sure what version of HTML the validator uses, therefore I'll defer to my knowledgeable colleagues associated with the WSG to provide that answer. So does that mean if I put XHTML 1.0 Transitional that any code that is of either HTML 4.0 or XHTML 1.0 will be accepted by validators? I see my validator is presently set at HTML 4.0 Transitional so I assume that means that the validator will accept anything between HTML 3.2 (which I believe is the version just prior to 4.0) or 4.0. At 06:45 PM 5/14/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you use strict then the code and syntax is far more stringent in order to validate because many tags/elements have been deprecated. Transitional allows for more flexibility, and less stringent adherence to standard/compliant markup. - Tina * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED - Open it back up! Please.
LOL - I guess and our mods have opened the discussion up in the forum - If the Xoops and their brethren were closer to being standards compliant, I'd seriously ask why not go to a forum type format - easier for all and you can check and reply as necessary yet avoid topics your not interested in. Just a thought - as I find the group admittedly a little dry at times, but what info is presented has taught me a few things and I have been able to use them in design - in that sense, reason for joining is accomplished and mission of the group is accomplished by my learning more accessible methods for my design. Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy http://www.thegrafixguy.com 503-887-4943 925-226-4085 (fax) -Original Message- From: Taco Fleur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 5:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED - Open it back up! Please. Lost battle (I tried before), for good off topic discussions go to CFAUSSIE.. This list is good, but the moderators like to keep it on topic, I think mainly to please some of the people that work for the government, and these people (not specifically government people) do not know how to sort or skip off topic threads. The moderators have provided a facility to discuss off-topic discussions though, you have to give them credit for it, but I reckon it doesn't work, I sure as hell can't be bothered to go somewhere else to continue discussions. I explained before that a lot of people remove themselves from the list due to the strictness of the list, which is a shame because those people need web standards the most. I think a lot of the people on the list also feel they have to answer every questions asked, which of course puts a lot off stress on these people (and therefore like to keep the list as clean as possible), but they have to understand they are not the only ones that are here to answer questions and should not feel pressured into having to answer every question asked. I personally think just about every off-topic thread will eventually become on-topic in the progress of discussion, and allowing these off-topic threads attracts more interest in this list by many people and thus learning more about web standards eventually, which is what this list is all about, trying to get new people to work with and understand web standards. Of course I opened my big mouth again by saying all this, whip me (please ;-), it's just the way I am. Taco Fleur Tell me and I will forget Show me and I will remember Teach me and I will learn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Christie Sent: Saturday, 15 May 2004 8:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED - Open it back up! Please. Active discussions get their head lopped off when they don't have anything to do with standards. This particular thread covered the value of a university degree in the web design business... had it have been the lack of decent web design instruction in major universities, it would have carried on longer. sad, sad story it is. --Ryan Christie theGrafixGuy wrote: Why do the active threads get killed? Some one asks a decent question and gets some very valid input only to get killed off??? Just because something may not be of interest to the particular moderator on duty, I'd like to see a little consideration out there as well - if it is producing some interesting conversation and something worth reading and apparently of enough interest to readers to reply, why not let it continue? Heck, if I were the moderator, I'd be more inclined to jump on the Out of Office setters who don't know their e-mail from the end of their nose. My two cents worth on the matter - and no I am not trying to be disrespectful, just hoping to see some more interesting topics and e-mails than 23 in a 20 hour period! Brian Grimmer theGrafixGuy -Original Message- From: Peter Firminger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? THREAD CLOSED Russ already stopped this thread. Please do not continue with it on list. P * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See
[WSG] hiding styles from Mac IE5 : how to?
Hi all Having some problems with a site that is crashing IE5 on the Mac (OS8 to X). The code is moving towards HTML4 compliance with only a few character errors, tag ends i.e instead of /' , and one id clash left to fix. I tested the site and it works perfectly on : IE5.5, 6 for Windows. The Geckos (Netscape 7, Mozilla, Camino, FF) Safari Opera 7.0 - 7.5 on all OS's partial (content readable) on IE5.0 for Win. I have borrowed an old Mac OS9 fliptop/frisbee and will do some testing on Monday - i came across this site http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/hiding/ while googling and am thinking of employing this method. Given that the site is usable for high 90's% of users I'm not prepared to invest the time in hacking a stylesheet so that one browser that MS doesn't make any more is okwith the risk of breaking it for the above browsers. Unfortunately IE5 on OS9 is the only browser for this OS (apart from some older Mozilla's like 1.01) I'd rather hide styles which I know is the problem so has anyone had any experience with the single quote @import method in the above link?. I guess it'll hide em for NN4 as well. If you want to have a look at the site in IE5 on the Mac I can send a link off list. Cheers James * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
